Rick Joyner’s Videos

I have been watching them.

http://www.morningstarministries.org/Groups/1000040651/MorningStar_Ministries/Media/VIDEO_Todd_Bentleys/VIDEO_Todd_Bentleys.aspx

You can subscribe there too if you want, but I haven’t.

He hasn’t really answered people’s questions, but he’s really attacked Lee Grady by using sinister comments and ploys which I am so used to hearing Christians use even on me. I must admit that it was fairly uncalled for on Rick’s behalf. Rick was right to call his letter ‘harsh’ and not being ‘more tactful’. Lee Grady had every right to post up Joyner’s letter. Joyner’s so-called ‘personal’ letter was abusive. And his video, talking about his letter to Grady, was seemingly aired to of cover up his personal attack on the man.

Joyner should have thought it might be public. Lee is a journalist. It’s common sense that journalist would post up anything news-worthy unless you make a statement like-wise. And from Grady’s behalf, he did the right thing. Not only that, Grady IS LED to believe that this letter was public.

Joyner said:

“I think you owe Todd, myself, Bill, and Jack apologies for your presumptuous judgments. I think they should be AS PUBLIC AS THIS LETTER WAS.” (emphasis mine)

With that information, I would even assume that Joyner has posted this letter up elsewhere, making this letter public. His comments to Lee Grady were demoralising, abusive, threatening and misleading. As from a journalists point of view, it was quite a good thing to publish to expose this divisive, abusive, hurtful soothsayer. But I hope this does not come “across as harsh” to anyone.

Joyner then said the following on his site via video:

“… and I answered to him in an e-mail to him which I thought was private. So I didn’t know he was going to publish it.”

“But it wasn’t Lee’s fault. I did not make it clear, I did not want what I wrote back to him publicised.”

“But I want to make that clear to you so that you understand it; I wrote it so fast at the top of my head, almost stream of consciousness. I would have done a much better job and made it much clear and understandable had I known he was going to post it and make it public.”

“I wrote it and I did not mean for it to go public. It was meant for Lee and Lee only.”

From above, you can clearly tell Rick Joyner is covering himself and not respecting Grady by LYING to cover his own nakedness. Grady keeps showing us this self-appointed apostle has no clothes and this self-appointed apostle doesn’t care!

The ‘Matt 18 guide’ Rick Joyner pointed out does not work. Period. It has been used and used again. Nothing happens. Nothing will happen if everyone uses this approach. Andrew Strom and others from this movement have applied such a method and have only seen this abused and proven to be ineffective against leaders that find no fault with themselves.

I have used this approach in the past with various abusive leaderships. You do all the right things nicely, sincerely, honestly and… nothing. I’ve done it til I’m blue in the face. So have others. I’ve discovered I’m not the only one who has done it to pastors, teachers or leaders behind closed doors. In these circumstances, Lee Grady has done the right thing since people have called ‘foul’ from the beginning and it has been refused to be addressed.

Rick Joyner in his video on his site has the guts to say the following:

“I was determined to confront this. I was determined to confront the illegitimate authority in the church today. Not just with Lee Grady but with many others that I believe is an illegitimate authority. And when you’re illegitimate in a place of authority, the accuser of the brother has a wide open door to use you. We must start learning to discern this accuser of the brethren that gets brethren accusing one another. Ok? Now some of the ways we can discern this is um…”

Go on Rick! PLEASE TELL US! (I don’t believe he’s gonna say this!)

“You know I believe the Lord is going to use His authority through the legitimate authority He has established in His church. He’s given us elders. He’s given us shepherds, he’s given us apostles and to be the authority within His church. I DO NOT BELIEVE A JOURNALIST DESERVES TO HAVE AUTHORITY IN THE CHURCH. I DON’T BELIEVE IT IS AN ILLEGITIMATE AUTHORITY and that’s what I was confronting Lee on.”

He then goes back on His common stabbing about Lee’s credentials of not starting church or a revival. If God can use anyone to start a revival, God can use also use anyone to sniff out a rat. Looks like prophets that don’t tickle peoples ears don’t belong to the institutionalised church which Rick Joyner is obviously made. Looks like shepherds are out their with the prophets looking after those hurt by the harlots within. Looks like the apostles are online establishing online church blog communities, addressing the hurting and the opinionated online. (And a lot more happens offline with personal PM’s or e-mails being exchanged!). God is online with those online, who want to remain online for God’s truth. It’s those offline and want to remain offline that I’m worried about.

Rick Joyner wouldn’t even listen to a child if the child was honest and said ‘You’ve got no clothes on’. Joyner is bad as O Reilly. No wait.

Reilly would take offense to that. The fact that Rick Joyner is clothing himself with his own lies without  a problem has confirmed my worries about him since I first of his book, The Final Quest: he is delusionally dangerous!

Rick Joyner is probably the most amazing soothsayer I’ve ever seen. He is a liar. Not only has he charmed thousands, but for him to charm an audience, he would have had to charm the snake first to attract one. Another who knows the scripture has been twist-teaching him and now it is all surfacing as he is pursuing whatever he is trying to pursue. He’s done it to himself. He has got his pedestal – not only his infallibility, but LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY.

From Rick Joyner’s biblical infallibility, he has legitimate authority. (Self appointed obviously through the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR).) Lee Grady has illegitimate authority. A journalist who does not have credentials like Rick Joyner.

However. Lee Grady is a Christian journalist who’s sole function is to examine truth, report truth and expose wrong things if truth isn’t in the circumstance. He has done so. His Christian job criteria is fulfilled, therefore (I find), this makes him legitimate. Not only that, he has taken a serious role as teacher, pastor and prophet. How?

Pastors and teachers defend the truth and expose the false things so that God’s flocks will not be scattered, divided or plundered by thieves or wolves. He’s prophetic in the sense that he has judged and (I believe) has done so appropriately. He is seeing things that are happening that are not of God and is asking for things to be corrected. And he is also one representative of all those who have cried foul from the beginning.

How the ‘accuser’, Rick Joyner bites back with the serpents help. But I say this not to be ‘harsh’. I say this because I really am rushed.

The self-appointed apostle Joyner has the right to tear down Grady because He is an apostle. But Grady has no right to expose Joyner and the gang?

At the moment, Grady still has more credibility then Joyner. I hope he does an expose. Rick talks about “spheres of authority we need to recognise”. Great. He could at least recognise Grady’s sphere of authority when it comes to CHRISTIAN journalism.

And now. Here is Joyner’s climax to prove he is a false man of God. The man himself pushes the one and only FALSE GOSPEL:

Joyner:

And I think when you go beyond what God has given you to do, (in Paul’s case it’s geographical, but these are spiritual too), you’ve GONE BEYOND THAT. YOU’VE GONE BEYOND GOD’S GRACE. You’re wide open for the enemy to use you.

You see. Right after this, Joyner goes onto say that Lee Grady and those that do all this reporting about the Lakeland Florida are stumbling blocks. He goes onto labeling them stumbling blocks. Oh I am so angry about this! Hypocrite! Before we address this false gospel, allow this smart and angry Christian point out Rick being the stumbling block:

“Lack of credibility… Dear Joyner, You sir, are the one who lacks credibility. You stood on stage with Bentley on June 23rd, 2008 along with other false apostles and prophets and not one of you had the discernment to see that Bentley was living in flagrant sin. Drinking excessively in public, ministering in public with his mistress beside him, telling the world he was happily married – showing off his wife and kids then dumping them weeks later. Not ONE of you so-called “apostles” has one whit of discernment.” – Javanut

Now this false gospel… how can anyone separate themselves from the love of God? Specifically grace? Well as Paul says:

Rom 5:20 … But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

So how can Rick say our actions go beyond God’s grace from saving us. Rick Joyner is a serious stumbling block in this regard.

But he finally rightly said:

“We as Christians need to discern the spirit now”

We’ve already heard his pathetic excuse of discernment on this issue:

“Now some of the ways we can discern this is um… You know I believe the Lord is going to use His authority through the legitimate authority He has established in His church.”

Oh that’s right! (If only he had a clue!)

BTW. For someone who rushed a letter to Lee, it’s amazing that there was no spelling errors or grammatical errors. (

Maybe he had time to check all those things before e-mailing out of anger.)

Joyner. You looked nervous and rattled. Just repent so that innocence can be restored to your vessel.

Their is nothing wrong with apology or repentance. It’s something we should all desire within ourselves and for those who are falling around us.

These are sad days indeed!

Specks&Planks

Christian or Kitsch?

I went to a Christian book store yesterday to buy some books for the kids.   Apart from the books, other bits of merchandise with Christian themes were for sale.  These included a Christian version of Bratz dolls and Christian Ponies, for little girls.  Later, I found this illustration, with the associated blurb from a catalogue, online here.

"Tired of dolls with a worldly appearance? You'll welcome these "mom-approved" dolls with a perfect fit of faith and fashion! Whether your girls play with nature-loving Hannah, musical Abigail, or worshipful Sarah, they'll love the stylishly modest outfits featuring faith-affirming T-shirts. And you'll rejoice in the biblical message each posable doll communicates. Ages 4 and up."

Why did I, and the two other mums with me, find this disturbing?

If I found them being sold in a church I’d probably be reminded of Jesus in the temple, but this was a shop, a profit making business, so why should there not be Bratz dolls and Ponies marketed to us as well?

The Ponies were disturbing, as they seemed almost identical to those without a Christian theme.  There were three available, called ‘Faith’, ‘Hope’ or ‘Love’, with accompanying bible verses.  They seemed to be made by a different manufacturer to the ‘worldly’ ponies.  We wondered if there was a big copyright infringement there, which would have been a form of theft, which is not very Christian.  Presumably Mattel would have sued if there was a problem, so it was probably OK.

The Bratz dolls were similarly disturbing.  Why did a Bratz doll have to have  a Christian theme?  These dolls have been particularly criticised by some for aiding in the sexualisation of children at a very young age, with their sexy clothes and exaggerated figures and features.

Of course my next thought was to wonder if I was just being prudish in some way and should just get over it.  After all, my little girl wouldn’t care; it would probably all go way over her head.

Are the manufacturers Christian enterprises, or are they just cynically catering to a large niche market?  Why bother buying ‘Christian’ toys when you can go out and buy the ‘worldly’ one – if you wouldn’t buy it normally, why would you bother buying a ‘Christian’ version, particularly a toy that’s attracted criticism even in the secular world for its potential effect on little girls?

Is there something off about marketing this kind of merchandise to Christians?  Does it cheapen the Bible and our faith, or overcommercialise it?  Does it make our faith kitsch?

On the other hand, is it just a helpful way of introducing aspects of our faith to our kids?

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RavingPente

To the Man Who Is Moving On To Do Greater Things

Goodbye FaceLift!

I’ve been in contact with FaceLift outside of Signposts and am touched by his attitude. I wish him all the best. (I have no pinyata no more!)

He wishes everyone on SignPosts02 God’s speed, love and peace in spite of how ugly things got previously.

In memory of the unforgettable FaceLift, he passed something onto me which I think is appropriate to post.

S&P

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In an interview by Paul Bradshaw with Rick Warren, Rick said: “People ask me, What is the purpose of life?

And I respond: In a nutshell, life is preparation for eternity. We were not made to last forever, and God wants us to be with Him in Heaven. One day my heart is going to stop, and that will be the end of my body– but not the end of me. I may live 60 to 100 years on earth, but I am going to spend trillions of years in eternity. This is the warm-up act – the dress rehearsal. God wants us to practice on earth what we will do forever in eternity.

We were made by God and for God, and until you figure that out, life isn’t going to make sense. Life is a series of problems: Either you are in one now, you’re just coming out of one, or you’re getting ready to go into another one. The reason for this is that God is more interested in your character than your comfort; God is more interested in making your life holy than He is in making your life happy.

We can be reasonably happy here on earth, but that’s not the goal of life. The goal is to grow in character, in Christ likeness. This past year has been the greatest year of my life but also the toughest, with my wife, Kay, getting cancer. I used to think that life was hills and valleys – you go through a dark time, then you go to the mountaintop, back and forth. I don’t believe that anymore.

Rather than life being hills and valleys, I believe that it’s kind of like two rails on a railroad track, and at all times you have something good and something bad in your life. No matter how good things are in your life, there is always something bad that needs to be worked on. And no matter how bad things are in your life, there is always something good you can thank God for…

You can focus on your purposes, or you can focus on your problems: If you focus on your problems, you’re going into self-centeredness, which is my problem, my issues, my pain.’ But one of the easiest ways to get rid of pain is to get your focus off yourself and onto God and others.

We discovered quickly that in spite of the prayers of hundreds of thousands of people, God was not going to heal Kay or make it easy for her- It has been very difficult for her, and yet God has strengthened her character, given her a ministry of helping other people, given her a testimony, drawn her closer to Him and to people.

You have to learn to deal with both the good and the bad of life. Actually, sometimes learning to deal with the good is harder. For instance, this past year, all of a sudden, when the book sold 15 million copies, it made me instantly very wealthy. It also brought a lot of notoriety that I had never had to deal with before. I don’t think God gives you money or notoriety for your own ego or for you to live a life of ease…

So I began to ask God what He wanted me to do with this money, notoriety and influence. He gave me two different passages that helped me decide what to do, II Corinthians 9 and Psalm 72.

First, in spite of all the money coming in, we would not change our lifestyle one bit. We made no major purchases.

Second, about midway through last year, I stopped taking a salary from the church.

Third, we set up foundations to fund an initiative we call The Peace Plan to plant churches, equip leaders, assist the poor, care for the sick, and educate the next generation.

Fourth, I added up all that the church had paid me in the 24 years since I started the church, and I gave it all back. It was liberating to be able to serve God for free.

We need to ask ourselves: Am I going to live for possessions? Popularity? Am I going to be driven by pressures? Guilt? Bitterness? Materialism? Or am I going to be driven by God’s purposes (for my life)? When I get up in the morning, I sit on the side of my bed and say, God, if I don’t get anything else done today, I want to know You more and love You better. God didn’t put me on earth just to fulfill a to-do list. He’s more interested in what I am than what I do. That’s why we’re called human beings, not human doings.

Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.

Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.

Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.

Painful moments, TRUST GOD.

Every moment, THANK GOD..

God’s Blessings to all my family and friends!”

________________________________________

FaceLift

An Empty Anointing

Pheonix Preacher made some very good points re the restoration of Todd Bentley to ministry so soon after his downfall.  Among those points was an observation regarding ‘anointing’ ministers and their families.

Todd was publicly anointed with [his then wife] Shonnah for world revival. Then he disappears from public view and reappears with a new wife Jessa …[]… and all the talk is immediately about getting him back to ministry as soon as possible.

Read entire article.

This reminder that Shonna was ‘anointed’ at the same time as Todd makes a mockery of this restoration. Despite being ‘anointed’ together, and with the same anointing, it seems that one person’s anointing is more important than another’s. In fact you’d have to conclude that her anointing was pretty irrelevant. So why bother anointing both of them in the first place?

If such a ceremony is meaningful, it is meaningful for both, otherwise it is nothing but marketing and showmanship. It adds credibility for a mass audience, but no actual substance.

Pastors in Pentecostal churches often refer to the laying on of hands ceremony and the ‘anointing’ received that day as that which brings them authority over their congregations, and greater gifting and insight than the rest of us into God’s Word and God’s will on a daily basis. Sometimes it is even used like a rod of authority – he is anointed and you are not, so don’t question when you are told to do something, don’t question his choices or decisions.

Was this the purpose of the laying of hands on elders in the Bible? How could it be serious and yet so empty, or used as a tool to dominate? Is God’s anointing temporary? What has gone wrong?

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RavingPente

Why We Should Question

I was listening to the radio today, hearing about Bernard Madoff and his Ponzi scheme.  One family had $700 Million invested entirely with Madoff – and lost the lot.  Another man has had to sell his two houses, and will spend the rest of his life in a one bedroom unit.  Apparently many members of the Jewish community felt comfortable investing 100% of their funds with Madoff, as he appeared to exemplify the kind of person they would want to invest with – rich; a long secure marriage; great kids; widely respected by the community.  He had a guru-like status within that community.  They have all lost the lot.

I couldn’t help noticing similarities to the way some Christians regard their leaders in the prosperity oriented churches.  The leaders have a guru-like status. To question them seems unthinkable, and is sometimes doctrinally discouraged.  If they have the trappings of success – fine church buildings, nice homes, long-standing marriages and good kids – that is even more reason not to doubt them.

Just as Madoff’s followers did, these people invest 100% of themselves in the organisations their leaders represent, but often well beyond finance alone.  They are encouraged to give to their church before any other cause, often sacrificially, and the church receives by far the most of any available cause.  Many do not give outside those organisations, but channel 100% of their giving through them.

Other churches or teachers from outside are rejected, just as many Madoff investors rejected all other myriad possibilities.  Their denomination or organisation is the best and has better answers – why listen to anyone else?

Madoff, when asked questions that he didn’t like about his business, would get angry, and throw the questioner out of the scheme – we now know why.  Some of these church leaders (and their supporters) when questioned quite reasonably, get angry and if it continues, may throw the questioner out of the community, or isolate them in other ways, such as by reducing their credibility in the eyes of their community.

Those whom Madoff threw out are now far better off than those who unquestioningly stayed.  Those who questioned would have experienced disapproval not only from Madoff, but from their community to some degree. That is usually the minimum price for questioning where it is unwelcome.

I would not liken every church leader to Madoff.  Many are there to serve others, not themselves.  Others welcome questions on all sorts of topics.  In the case of a guru culture though, it is surely the case that those who question, even to the point of being unable to stay, may ultimately be better off than those who do stay, who do not question, and who invest their entire lives and resources into an institution that has lost the plot.  The price – in this lifetime -  for questioning is not nearly as high ultimately as the price for refusing to do so.

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RavingPente

Rebuke for the Hasty Restoration of Todd Bentley

S&P sent this to me, and in the light of recent discussions on this blog, and because this issue has been followed on this blog, I will post it up.

I can relate to his sentiments.

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RavingPente

THE TRAGIC SCANDAL of GREASY GRACE
-by J. Lee Grady.

This week’s announcement about evangelist Todd Bentley’s hasty remarriage and restoration is sending a confusing message to the church. I groaned when I learned early this week that Canadian preacher Todd Bentley, leader of the controversial Lakeland Revival, had decided to divorce his wife, Shonnah, and marry his former ministry intern, Jessa Hasbrook. The news surfaced after almost nine months of silence and speculation, during which time the board of Bentley’s Fresh Fire Ministries in British Columbia publicly scolded him for committing adultery.

In a statement released March 10 by Rick Joyner, the popular author and minister who is overseeing Bentley’s restoration process, we were told that (1) Bentley married his new wife several weeks ago and moved to Joyner’s base in Fort Mill, S.C.; (2) Todd and Jessa agree that their relationship was “wrong and premature” and that it “should not have happened the way it did”; (3) Bentley will remain out of public ministry while he seeks healing; and (4) Joyner will oversee the healing process with input from Dallas pastor Jack Deere and California pastor Bill Johnson.

“Many of us have rejected biblical discipline and adopted a sweet, spineless love that cannot correct.”

It was also announced that Bentley plans to relaunch his ministry, called Fresh Fire USA, in Fort Mill, and that Joyner is now collecting donations from supporters to help rebuild it. (The Canadian ministry Bentley started has now been renamed Transform International, and it has severed ties with the evangelist.)

In a few places in his statement Joyner expressed tough love, especially when he said: “We know that trust has to be earned and that Todd will have to earn the trust of the body of Christ for future minstry, which will not be easy, nor should it be.” He also made it clear that true repentance and restoration “can only come if we refuse to compromise the clear biblical standards for morality and integrity.”

But there were some glaring omissions in the statements released this week that indicate a fundamental weakness in our freestyle approach to “restoring” fallen leaders.

First of all, it is outrageous that Shonnah Bentley, Todd’s first wife, does not seem to be an issue in the current discussion. Her name is never mentioned in Joyner’s statement-while Todd is mentioned 18 times. We are never told how Shonnah is handling the divorce. How will she manage to care for the three children she and Todd share? She and the kids seem invisible in this process. Yet if anyone needs healing and restoration, is it not the other half of this broken family?

Second, we charismatics still seem to have a habit of elevating gifting above character. It’s almost as if the end justifies the means.
(So what if a preacher ruins one marriage and makes a hasty decision to marry a younger woman – the important thing is that we get him back in the pulpit to heal the sick!) That is a perversion of biblical integrity. God can anoint any man or woman with the Holy Spirit’s power; what He is looking for are vessels of honor that can carry that anointing with dignity, humility and purity.

What is most deplorable about this latest installment in the Bentley scandal is the lack of true remorse. In his own statement, Bentley apologizes for his actions and says he “takes full responsibility for my part for the ending of the marriage.” But how can he be taking “full responsibility” if he willingly chose to have a girlfriend on the side-and then married her immediately after his divorce was final? Why did he hide for several months when he should have been listening to counsel and seeking reconciliation with his first wife?

Many Christians today have rejected biblical discipline and adopted a sweet, spineless love that cannot correct. Our grace is greasy. No matter what an offending brother does, we stroke him and pet him and nurse his wounds while we ignore the people he wounded. No matter how heinous his sin, we offer comforting platitudes because, after all, who are we to judge?

When the apostle Paul learned that a member of the Corinthian church was in an immoral relationship with his father’s wife, he did
not rush to comfort the man. He told the Corinthians: “You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst” (I Cor.5:2). Sometimes we must draw a ruthless sword in order to bring genuine healing. The “wounds of a friend” are faithful to bring conviction and true repentance (see Prov. 27:6).

Paul actually delivered the unrepentant Corinthian man to Satan “for the destruction of his flesh” (5:5) so that he could be saved. That does not sound very nice. Many today would call Paul’s tactic harsh and legalistic. But that is because we have lost any true sense of the fear of the Lord – and we don’t realize that our laxness about God’s standards is a perversion of His mercy. When the sin is severe, the public rebuke must be severe.

In all the discussion of Bentley and the demise of the Lakeland Revival, I am waiting to hear the sound of sackcloth ripping into shreds. We should be weeping. We should be rending our hearts – as God commanded Israel when they fell into sin (see Joel 2: 13-14). To give guidance to a confused church, our leaders should have publicly decried the Lakeland disaster while at the same time helping both Todd and Shonnah to heal.

We have not mourned this travesty. We have not been shocked and appalled that such sin has been named among us. We act as if flippant divorce and remarriage are minor infractions – when in actuality they are such serious moral failures that they can bring disqualification.

If we truly love Todd Bentley, we will not clamor for his quick return to the pulpit. While we certainly want him to be fully restored to fellowship with God, we cannot rush the process of restoring a man to ministry. Leaders must live up to a higher standard. We must demand that those involved in Bentley’s restoration not only love him but also love the church by protecting us from the kind of scandal we endured last year.

-J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma.

~SOURCE: http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/fire-in-my-bones

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YES! – You have permission to post these emails to friends or other groups, blogs, boards, etc. Go for it!

Chief of Sinners… Blooper exposed…

Before the verse is the following:

1Ti 1:10-14 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

The actual verse says:

1Ti 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

After the verse says the following:

1Ti 1:16-17 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

CHIEF in Greek is PROTOS.

PROTOS can mean the following:

1) first in time or place

a) in any succession of things or persons

2) first in rank

a) influence, honour

b) chief

c) principal

3) first, at the first

So it literally means FIRST. Option 1) actually seems more applicable in this context when we apply the context of these scriptures together as so:

1Ti 1:10-14 … And if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the GLORIOUS GOSPEL of the blessed God, WHICH WAS COMMITTED TO MY TRUST. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, WHO HATH ENABLED ME, for that HE COUNTED ME FAITHFUL, PUTTING ME INTO THE MINISTRY; who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I OBTAINED MERCY, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am the FIRST IN [THIS] TIME AND PLACE. Howbeit for this cause I OBTAINED MERCY, that in me FIRST Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, FOR A PATTERN TO THEM WHICH SHOULD HEREAFTER BELIEVEON HIM TO EVERLASTING…

The last verse above is crucial!!! Do we not know that it is the Apostle Paul, which he states so clearly here, that was the FIRST to OBTAIN MERCY, God’s LOVE & GRACE, then commissioned by God to be PUT IN MINISTRY to preach the Glorious Gospel comissioned to Him – this gospel of grace? He was the FIRST sinner to experience God’s mercy and grace, therefore commissioned by God to spread this GOOD NEWS to gentiles who are blinded by sin too. So it indeed is a true saying which all of Christendom recognises to be true (which continues into vs 16!):

Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom Paul was the FIRST to experience this truth and was the first commissioned to preach this truth; for Paul OBTAINED MERCY, for Jesus Christ FIRST came to Paul. This is to reveal to us His perfect patience as an example for those would believe in Him for eternal life.

The Glorious gospel of grace was demonstrated on Paul to reveal to everyone how the powerful good news of God’s Sovereign grace can transform our lives. Paul was not the  ‘Chief of Sinners’ but the FIRST to receive the saving power of God from sinner to Saint and then to evangelise with this gospel with a God-given-commissioned ministry which we are to do like-wise!

God bless!

S&P

Megachurch Margin Calls

It is very difficult for any organised church when its giving level falls below what is needed to maintain its staff, services or buildings.  It can happen to any church, and is most likely when the congregation level dwindles.  In the established denominational churches, we might see buildings or land sold, or congregations combined, or ministers going part time.  I have no idea what the situation is at CCC Oxford Falls of course, but understand they are merging some of their ministry colleges into a single entity.  That could be another kind of cost cutting measure.

I haven’t yet seen a local megachurch crumble financially, but am beginning to wonder if we will, given this global credit crisis, and the potential pressure this may place upon congregations.  Whether the congregation dwindles due to disillusionment when prosperity teachings don’t seem to work in the middle of a recession, or just doesn’t give as much because of the increased financial pressure they are under, the result could be the same.

Megachurches must surely have huge expenses.  Buying buildings, fitting out buildings, maintaining or renting buildings; staff, furniture, phones, vehicles, advertising, you name it.  Some have inherited debts from building campaigns – or possibly from failed investments or failed church plants.  At least their interest rates are falling.

Will we see a version of a margin call in these churches when bills cannot be paid, especially in churches that have debt? Is it possible that congregation and giving levels will fall below some critical amount and huge losses must then be incurred?  With a focus on youth, how will they keep enough mature earners to survive?  People’s spending abilities apparently peak in their late 40’s to early 50’s, en masse.  One thing is for sure – it would be very difficult to sell a megachurch building in a hurry to raise funds, and people have put their hearts and lives into raising those buildings – to sell one would feel like a travesty.

How will the teaching change – if it changes – under that kind of pressure?  Will it become completely money focussed, or will it change its focus to value other kinds of prosperity, such as relational riches including those found in our relationship with our Father and each other.  Or will they just get more miracle offering speakers in for fundraising.

Its a huge potential problem for any church that relies on numbers to maintain a single enormous facility.  If they fail, what are the consequences for a prosperity based mindset?  Are churches in hired halls or houses who keep their debts and ongoing running costs down to be commended rather than looked down upon for their apparent lack of material success?

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RavingPente

The Need for Brokenness

Odyssey, who joined us briefly on this blog some time back, sent me this article recently which I’m posting up below. Sorry about the length but it is posted in its entirety, due to the copyright provisions on its website. If you don’t have time to read the whole thing, it is still worth reading the first half or so.  (I promise not to post up too many very long articles.)

The teachings on brokenness here contrast with those teachings based on naming and claiming, or ‘positive thinking’, or just ‘getting over it’ that many of us have seen in certain churches, and show how vital the place and process of brokenness is in our lives as Christians. Not to say that we will always be miserable or will never overcome, but that there is a place for seasons of brokenness in our lives.

To measure people by their apparent degree of success or prosperity, as a sign of God’s favour upon them, and to judge others in contrast, seems to me to deny the importance of these seasons and what God accomplishes in us through them. In extreme cases of exclusively using prosperity or success to measure others, it is to truly shut ones eyes to the working of God.

I also enjoyed the section on the pursuit of power.

I hope that some of you here may find this as encouraging and observant as I did, and look forward to any thoughts you may have on the subject.  Not that I am wishing dark times upon any of us!

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RavingPente

The Need For Brokenness
by Chip Brogden

“The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all (Psalms 34:18,19).”

“The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise (Psalms 51:17).”

The fundamental need of a disciple of Jesus Christ is not more power, but more brokenness. The majority of Christians today are not too unlike the original twelve disciples of the Lord. We observe the Twelve arguing over who is the greatest; asking to sit on His right hand and on His left; desiring to call down fire from heaven upon those who oppose them; refusing to wash each other’s feet; protesting the need for the Lord to go the cross, even drawing the sword to defend Him in the garden.

May we see that the disciples were not endued with power from on high until they were of one mind and one accord, together in one place, after the crucifixion and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. While it is true that they enjoyed a measure of spiritual power during the Lord’s ministry on earth, we see how even this little taste of heavenly ability puffed them up. Jesus sent them forth and gave them authority over evil spirits. So it happened that when they returned, they exclaimed, “Lord! Even the demons are subject to us through Thy name!” Even this small accomplishment made them rejoice and exalt in themselves. Jesus tells them this little bit of success is hardly worth rejoicing over. Later on, we find the disciples rebuking others who used the Name to cast out demons. Why? Because “they are not of us.” Patiently, Jesus tells them to stop forbidding the others, because “he that is not against us is for us.” We see how quickly pride was able to gain a foothold.

What a tragedy it would have been to pour out the Holy Spirit in His fullness upon the disciples in such a condition! They were thoroughly unfit and unprepared to handle such power. Why? Not because they were insincere. No doubt they were very sincere. After all, they had forsaken everything and were following the Lord. Nevertheless, they were yet unbroken. That is to say, they were following the Lord and even had a taste of spiritual power but they had no yet taken up the Cross. Over and over again Christ said they must take up the Cross, but they themselves could not understand what He meant. They even sought to prevent the Lord from taking up HIS cross. They could not be entrusted with much power because they were not sufficiently dead to themselves. The slightest accomplishment would only be grounds for foolish boasting and further arguments to see who was to be the greatest among them. Hence, they were told to tarry in Jerusalem and wait until they would be endued with power from on high. As proud men they were found arguing on many occasions, but as broken men they were finally in one mind and one accord. Thus, the Spirit came, and with the Spirit, the fullness of power.

Today the call is for unity, but we need to see that unity cannot be achieved by calling people to unity. Unity is achieved when we take up the Cross and die to our minute opinions and lay down our petty arguments and prejudices. Then, and only then, will we come to one mind. A broken spirit is a peaceful spirit, and is able to abide with others. Contentious, unbroken, hard, stubborn people can never be in one accord. The sacrifices of God are a broken and contrite spirit.

More Of The Lord, Or Less Of Me?

Indeed, as the Lord calls us back to the Cross to become disciples of Jesus, He intends to first humble us before empowering us. It is not a question of His supply, nor is His Life to be measured in terms of some, more, or plenty. Either the Life is present, or it is not present. The Lord’s Life is a rich Life, and it fills the believer with the ALL fullness of God. We may say of a brother or a sister, that they “really know the Lord in a powerful way” or that they are “full of life” or they have a “strong anointing.” Of course we all have different gifts and abilities as the Spirit enables us. But we should not use phraseology which implies that some brothers and sisters have more of the Lord’s Life than other brothers and sisters. We categorically reject this idea. God is no respecter of persons, and He has blessed ALL of us with “every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ (Ephesians 1:3).” “For in [Christ] dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power (Colossians 2:9,10).” “He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things (Romans 8:32)?” What are these Scriptures telling us? That we are blessed with every spiritual blessing, filled with the fullness of God in Christ, and have received all things freely through Him. No single believer is any more “anointed” or powerful than any other.

Please tell me, saint of God, what it is that you lack spiritually: for these Scriptures demonstrate conclusively that you are already filled with all that God has and is. How much is all? How full is full? How complete is complete? If there is a lack in our lives, let us readily admit that the lack is not on the Lord’s part, and it is not because we are inferior to other, more “powerful” believers. The question is not how to get more of the Lord, but how to release the Life which is already hidden within us, obscured behind the veil of our flesh. To put it another way, it is not more of the Lord that we need, but less of ourselves. We must be broken.

Christians today are encouraged to seek more power, more anointing, and more gifts. I have stood before these precious believers and led them in the singing of choruses which cry, “More love, more power, more of You in my life.” To be sure such a desire is good and sincere. The Church is so hungry for the presence of the Lord. I have watched thousands stream forward in hopes of obtaining some fresh outpouring of spiritual power or anointing. I have both led them in the pursuit of more power and joined them in the pursuit. Day and night I searched for spiritual power that I might overcome my sins, be a witness for the Lord, and have a powerful ministry which reached thousands. But a day came when the Lord gave me revelation of Christ in me, and I in Christ. May I say, that day was like walking out of one room, entering another, and closing the door behind me. From that day forward I realized that I was complete in Christ, filled with all that God has, all that He IS. From that day forward I saw that the problem is not in obtaining more from the Lord, but in allowing Him to break me and humble me that I may no more hinder Him through my own foolishness, pride, natural wisdom, fleshly lusts, and divided heart. I needed to decrease, and He would increase in direct proportion to my decrease. If I decrease but a little, He would increase but a little. But with much decrease of me there would be much increase of Him. With less of me, there WOULD BE more of Him in my life!

The Pursuit Of Power

I will state it again: most Christians eagerly, even greedily, seek the power of the God, but they resist any thing that would seek to decrease, humble, test, or prove them. They want the power, but they refuse the weakness. Stated differently, they relish the bright sunshine, gentle breeze, and singing birds, but they curse the dark night when the coyotes howl and the rain falls. When God performs as expected all is well, but when He fails to perform as expected the countenance grows dark and the soul is depressed.

And how many “Spirit-filled” believers have we met that seemed to carry about a certain power and seemed to be very spiritual while sitting in church, yet they could not control their tongue or keep a reign upon their critical spirit? Their power only gives them an occasion to glory in their flesh and compare themselves in a favorable light with others. Mark this well: any power that does not come by way of weakness will ruin people such as this. We must never seek the power of Pentecost without first tasting the suffering of the Cross. The Cross is Power disguised in Weakness. There is a saying, “Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” We can just as well say that spiritual power obtained apart from the weakness of the Cross will corrupt also. This is why the Lord leads us first to Calvary, then on to Pentecost. We dare not bypass Calvary in our haste to experience Pentecost.

In spite of this spiritual truth, observe how little attention is paid to the necessity of brokenness among those who so eagerly speak of the power of God. We should be afraid of listening to anyone who teaches us about the power of God but does not teach us about the necessity of brokenness. Invariably the power, once received, will pollute the spirit and pride will set in. Weakness, humility, brokenness, suffering, pouring out our lives, taking up the Cross – this language seems to be lost among the seekers of power. How tragic that is!

The Seasons of the Spirit

Yes, the Lord in us is full of might and power; yet He will not intrude upon our will and overwhelm us. Sometimes we wish He would do so. But that is not His way. He desires us to cooperate with His Spirit. When we come to Him and present ourselves as instruments to be used, He begins to mold us and shape us into suitable vessels. If we see this process as beginning and ending in a one-time act of consecration, or a single moment of surrender, or a solitary life-changing event, then we underestimate just how thorough and far-reaching this process will be. It spans many years and is marked with many mountains and valleys, gardens and deserts. The one so committed may now expect to encounter many seasons of light and darkness, sunshine and rain, heat and cold, sweetness and bitterness. At the outset one may think he will be happy, light, and carefree now that he has tasted some of the Lord’s power. He will rejoice for that season, and then the sun will set and the dark night of the soul will begin. All that was gained now seems to have been lost. The former sweetness is nowhere to be found. Everything is dreary and burdensome. When this season is accomplished, the sun rises again and the Christian rediscovers the joy of his salvation. The vows are renewed and the spirit begins to soar. Prayer and praise now pour forth like water. Everything is effortless and spontaneous. But then, strangely enough, that season passes and the dark night sets in once again. Why is this? The Lord is teaching us to live apart from our circumstances. Eventually we will learn how to live above our environment and walk by faith, not by sight.

I remember times when I so felt the presence of God that I thought surely I could not sin after such an experience. Remembering my many sins and failures, I surmised that was all behind me now that I had tasted of such a heavenly sphere. Failure seemed impossible. How happy I was that now I had met the Lord in a powerful way, or had some spiritual experience, or heard some special word from the Lord, for with THIS I was sure to be victorious from here onward. How utterly distressing it was to find myself less than a week later wallowing in the same sin and defeat as before! Truly perplexed, I would struggle along until Sunday, where I would go forward to receive the prayers of the saints. Once again I was lifted up into the throne room and felt as though I could reach out and touch the Lord. Surely I need not fail again! But of course, once I left the mountaintop and descended again into the valley, I found the old lusts ever present with me, ready to reclaim me as soon as I arrived back from my latest encounter with the Lord.

Perhaps this has been your experience as well. We must learn sooner rather than later that discipleship is a process of tearing down in order to build up. We cannot expect to have a single mountaintop experience with the Lord and then assume from henceforth the work of the Cross is completed in us. When we are standing with the Lord in the New Jerusalem we may lay down the Cross. Until then, we dare not entertain the thought that we have already been made perfect. We must deny ourselves and take up the Cross daily.

So if there is a seeming difference in the “level” of anointing or power or spirituality among believers it is definitely not because some have more of the Lord than others. Let this be an encouragement to you. Indeed, Christ is not divided, and of His fullness we all share. We are all baptized into the same Spirit. The difference is some saints are more broken than others. Some have passed through many seasons of tearing down and building up, while some after many years of experience are still resisting the Lord and refusing to lay down their lives. Some have recognized God’s dealings and have submitted to them, while others have misunderstood or been totally ignorant of God’s dealings with them. The ones who have been sufficiently broken eventually manifest very little of their self, and very much of Christ. God must work long and hard with us to bring us to this place, but what a glorious day it is when we are able to bow our heads and finally surrender everything. What joy it is to look back over all that the Lord has led us through and realize His purpose in both the good times and the bad times, to behold the goodness and the severity of God in His dealings with us.

Four Examples of Brokenness: The Bread of Life

The Cross represents the principle of brokenness in the disciple of the Lord Jesus. Let us look to the Scriptures for some examples of brokenness. The night He was betrayed, we are told that the Lord Jesus “took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me ( Luke 22:19).” Many times the Lord has told the disciples and the crowds, “I am the Bread of Life.” He commanded them to eat His flesh and drink His blood. This is one of my favorite passages of Scripture, and one which I refer to constantly when discussing this subject. Many turned aside and no longer followed the Lord after He said this. How can this man give us His flesh to eat? Because He is the Bread of Life.

The little communion wafers we partake of today fail to adequately represent the Bread of Life. At the Passover there was one loaf, and it was broken into pieces that all may partake of it. Today, the wafers come to us already divided. The Church is certainly divided today, so perhaps this is a good representation of our division, but it fails to show us the vital truth that in order to partake of the Life, there must be a breaking. There is one Loaf, not many loaves. Jesus is the Bread which came down from heaven. How may we receive Him? He must be broken for us. After blessing the bread, and breaking it, He plainly tells us, “This is my body.”

It is interesting to note here that the blessing Jesus prayed over the bread is the same blessing the Jews bless their bread with today. It has not changed in centuries. The Scriptures do not record it because it was written for the Jews, and they already know it:

“Blessed art Thou, O Lord our God, King of the Universe, which bringeth forth bread from the earth.”

After the blessing, Jesus broke the bread. The Passover ceremony also calls for a portion of the bread to be wrapped in a napkin and hidden, to be retrieved later. Thus, the Lord is showing us His crucifixion and resurrection in the blessing, the breaking, and the “burying” of the bread. He is the Bread which is come down from heaven, broken, buried, and brought forth from the earth. Our traditional communion wafer destroys this beautiful parable. Indeed, our Lord is One Loaf which is broken, that we may all share of His Life. Hallelujah! This illustrates the need for brokenness that Life may issue forth.

Example Two: A Grain of Wheat

Again, for an example of brokenness, let us look to the Lord’s Word to us in His final hours on earth: “And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal (John 12:23-25).” How remarkable are the Lord’s words here. He begins by saying it is time for Him to be glorified. When we think of the Lord being glorified, we think of His baptism when the Spirit descended upon Him as a dove and the Voice of God declared Him to be His Son. Or, we think of the mountain when His appearance became dazzling white and the brightness of His Glory was shown to Peter, James, and John. How strange then that Jesus talks of being glorified by a cruel death. It seems contrary to what we have been led to believe thus far. But the Lord explains why His death is necessary.

When the Lord Jesus humbled Himself and accepted the limitations of a human body, He was only able to be in one place at a time. For all the people He did heal, there were many millions who remained sick. He simply could not, as a Man, be everywhere at once. He was limited by time and space. In one place He seems frustrated with a holy frustration: “I have come to bring a fire to the earth, and how I wish it were blazing already! There is a baptism I must still receive, and what constraint I am under until it is completed (Luke 12:49,50, New Jerusalem Bible)!” See how the Lord is restrained, and seems to be aching to come forth. He is like the grain of wheat, a seed surrounded by the outer shell of His physical body.

Pick up an acorn. What are you holding in your hand? A seed, yes. But what else? A tree? Yes, once the seed is buried it will one day produce a tree. But what else are you holding in your hand, besides a tree? A forest! Because, from that seed will come a tree, and from that tree will come many more seeds, and from those seeds will come many more trees, and so on. So what you hold in your hand is not a mere seed, but a forest.

Jesus says the Kingdom of God is “as if a man should cast seed into the ground; And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, he knoweth not how. For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear (Mark 4:26-28).” Dear friend, this is glorious! We don’t have to do anything with the seed but cast it into the ground and forget about it! “For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself.” God will bring forth the fruit if we will bury the seed! Do you want to be fruitful? Humble yourself! Cast yourself into the ground and allow yourself to be broken that the fruits may come forth.

Now Jesus says if the seed will not fall to the earth and die, it will abide alone. Take the seed home and place it on your desk. Will it become a forest? Of course not. Why? That forest is inside the shell. It cannot come forth on its own. You see, the potential is there, for there is life in the seed. But the inner life is entombed by an outer shell. How do we get that which is in the shell to come out of the shell? We must bury the seed in the ground – the seed must “die” and give up being a seed. The shell must be broken and that which is within the shell may then come forth. When it dies, it brings forth “much fruit”.

You see, the issue is not the ability of the Life to spring forth, but the brokenness of the vessel which holds the Life captive! It is not that we need more power, but that we need more brokenness. When we are properly broken we will find the indwelling Christ is more than sufficient.

Example Three:The Alabaster Box

“And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as [Jesus] sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head (Mark 14:3).” The ointment here represents Anointing, or Life. I use the terms synonymously. It was very precious, but it was contained within an alabaster box. Albaster is a kind of stone used to make vases. But the same stone was also used to make caskets! Again, we have Life encased within Death. The inward release is contingent upon the outward breaking.

How many of us cherish the vessel more than the ointment? Friends, the vessel is nothing. Let us look beyond the vessels and instruments of the Lord and only note if the precious ointment is coming forth freely or is inhibited. The vessel houses the Life and must be broken. If we wish to be containers of this heavenly ointment, let us ask the Lord to break us that the hidden fragrance and anointing may come forth.

Example Four: The Veil Of The Temple

“And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom (Mark 15:38).” The veil of the Temple was a thick curtain which separated the Holy of Holies from the rest of the temple. What is special about the Holy of Holies? It is where the presence of God dwelt. No one could step into the presence, or even look behind the curtain, without falling over dead. Only the high priest could enter, and then only once a year. A rope was tied around his ankle with which the other priests could pull him out from behind the curtain in the event of his death.

But when the Lord Jesus died on the cross, the thick curtain which stood as a barrier between the presence of God and the people was split down the middle from top to bottom. Why top to bottom? To demonstrate that it was God Himself who split the veil. Had the veil been torn from bottom to top, it could perhaps be explained away that man was responsible. To tear the veil from top to bottom is indeed a miracle. What does it signify? Of course it means the death of Christ opened the way for us to approach the throne of grace without fear of death (Hebrews 10:19,20). That is the obvious meaning. Yet we know also that the three sections of the temple – the Holy of Holies, the Holy Place, and the Outer Court – represent the spirit, soul, and body of man. The Holy of Holies is the spirit of man where Christ dwells. In between the inner man and the outer man stands a thick veil.

We stand by our assertion that each believer is complete and contains the entire fullness of God; but we also acknowledge that the veil of the flesh must be rent in two in order for that fullness to come forth. How often we meet a brother or a sister and we sense their preciousness, but there is something that prevents the Life from coming forth as it should. That “something” is the fleshly veil which remains intact. We can only hope that they will allow the Lord to rend and break them so the Life can come forth. Similarly, when we sense a lack, we should not pray for more of the Lord, or seek more power, as though the indwelling Christ is not sufficient. Instead, we may ask the Lord to break us and take away the veil that is keeping the Life from coming forth.

The Cross Accomplishes This Breaking

Now we have before us four examples from the Scriptures of what it means to be broken, and why it is necessary: the bread, the grain of wheat, the alabaster box, and the temple veil. There is yet another point to be made from these four examples. In each instance, the Lord mentions His death and resurrection. The principle of the Cross is central to each illustration. The blessing and breaking of the bread speaks of His death and resurrection; the grain of wheat speaks of His coming glorification through His substitutionary death; the alabaster box is connected to the Lord’s anointing for burial (Mark 14:8); and the temple veil is rent at the moment of His death on the Cross. These are not mere coincidences.

The Lord has continually called us to deny ourselves, take up the Cross, and follow Him. We are not left to wonder what it means to take up the Cross, or what God hopes to accomplish in us when we do so. In these examples He is showing us what that means, and why it must be so. What is He saying? That we must be broken before we can bring forth Life. That to save our life we must give up our life, lay down on the altar, and offer ourselves as a living sacrifice to God. Only then may we truly live for God. Only then may we be vessels through which Life may flow.

One time the disciples asked the Lord, “Increase our faith (Luke 17:5).” Do you remember how the Lord responded to this request? It is a very strange response. Today we ask the Lord to increase our faith, increase our patience, increase our love, increase our self-control, give us more. Strangely enough, it seems as though these repeated requests often go unanswered. We are still asking for “more”, and it has been many years since we first asked. It is the same with the disciples. They ask the Lord to increase their faith. Instead of giving them more faith, He basically tells them they don’t need more faith, that they have enough already. How do you like that response?

Watchman Nee was once asked to help a sister who insisted that she needed more patience. She told brother Nee of all the times she lost her temper and how terribly she behaved. She prayed and prayed for patience, but to no avail. So she asked brother Nee if he would agree with her in prayer that God would give her patience so she would no longer lose her temper. Brother Nee said, “This I cannot do.” Stunned, she asked why not. “Because I can assure you that God will not answer your prayer,” he answered. This sister became angry. “What do you mean God will not answer my prayer?” she demanded. “Am I so far gone that He will not hear me anymore?” “No, I do not mean exactly that,” brother Nee explained. “What I mean is this: God will not give you more patience, because you have no need of patience.” Now the woman was nearly beside herself with anger. “What do you mean I have no need of patience? I am always losing my temper and acting in a most regrettable manner. How can you say I do not need patience?” “Dear sister,” he calmly replied, “it is not patience that you need; it is Christ.”

He goes on to explain that all we have need of is in Christ, and Christ is in us. Therefore, we do not need to seek God for a little patience here, a little faith there. Instead, we must see that we are complete in Christ, and ask God to humble us and break us, that Christ would be my Patience, and that Christ would be my Faith, and that Christ would be my Righteousness, etc. We have every spiritual blessing already in Christ, but that Life is for the most part trapped within the alabaster box. We love the alabaster box more than the ointment, but we cannot have the ointment without breaking the vessel.

Dear friend, are you an enclosed vessel, or a broken one? Is Christ bound up and restrained within your heart, or is your heart free and unfettered that He may come forth through you? Have you expressed your willingness to die to yourself that you may bring forth much fruit, or are you like the seed which refuses to die and therefore abides alone? Has the Presence been released in you and through you, or does the veil need to be torn in two?

Oh, let us go back to the cross and humble ourselves that He may have freedom of expression through us! Do we desire the presence of the Lord? Then let us ask the Lord to decrease us through the Cross, for “the Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.”

© 1997-2009 Chip Brogden and TheSchoolOfChrist.Org.
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March of the Muslims/End times

Seeing as I’m now an author here I thought I would post up this tape recording of a sermon given by my Grandfather sometime in the 1980s (he passed away 20 years ago but I think it’s still relevant today). I tried posting it at my usual favourite end times sites www.rr-bb.com and www.prophecyfellowship.com but they wouldn’t allow it as they are cessationists regarding gifts of the spirit. But now that I have authoring privileges here (the rush of power has gone to my head and I am posting it up here, ha, ha, sorry).

Anyway here it is. It is called March of the Muslims. His basic synopsis as I understand it is that the Islamic extremist problem is some type of punishment/discipline for Christians rejecting the gifts of the spirit. I know that might sound extreme to some people but personally having known the man in person I take what he says seriously. (OK we all hero worship our grandfathers – but he really was a man of God – as we all should be I guess. He was one of those people who if you knew him, it sort of made God more real to you – it’s hard to explain. I guess I’m saying we often first know Christ by dealing with other people who already know him, and my Grandfather was one of those people for me. I respected him greatly so take seriously stuff I find from him like this – but feel free to be cynical, critical etc regarding the message as that is this forums style of course). I think it’s worth posting though so I am. So for cynics and believers alike here it is.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5720930510415160958

(Some background info. My Grandfather nearly died of sickness at age 40 and promised God that if he recovered he would spend the rest of his life witnessing to Jews – don’t ask me why but he did. He did recover and spent the rest of his life working for Jewish Evangelical Witness in Queensland. He was also big on preaching as a visiting speaker on the “end times” (and no he didn’t collect money after the sermon as far as I am aware – unlike today). He was pre-millennial (as am I) and was not into replacement theology – so he was whatever the label for the opposite of replacement theology is – i.e. the church is a mystery – to the Old Testament Jews – which fits into the gap between the 69th week of Daniel (when the messiah is cut off – i.e. crucified) and the 70th week of Daniel. The 70th week of Daniel being the great tribulation and also the time when Israel – (or at least the 144,000 of them) return to Christ as a nation and fulfil God’s plan for them to be a missionary nation. My Grandfather wasn’t decided on the pre-trib post-trib issue. Personally I’m a firm believer in the pre-trib rapture).

Some of you probably wander what all this has to do with CCC and WoF which are the more usual topic of this site. Well in my mind I see it as being related, as I see churches like CCCOF, WoF, the Apostolic movement etc (as I alluded to in another post) as being the end-time church of Laodicea (the un-raptured remanent of which I suspect will probably turn into or at least contribute to being the whore/religious system of Revelation, which helps the beast/AC rise to power but is ultimately destroyed by him).

(It’s hard to talk about the “end-times” without sounding like some schizo/paranoid/conspiracy theorist nut job. Oh well. It is a pretty main stream belief/interpretation of scripture though. Hope RP doesn’t regret giving me authoring powers. And for the record I don’t believe in the Illuminati/Club of Rome etc, humans just aren’t that smart or co-operative or that good at keeping a secret – but I do think there are conspiracies a foot in the spiritual realm – which God allows to fulfil his plan as per his revelation to us in the book of Revelation).

(One other thing for what its worth he was also convinced the AC was Assyrain).