To Matthew Ford & Franc Manhattan Of ‘FireItUp Ministries’

Hopefully, this will be a time where we can engage with Matthew Ford and Franc Manhattan. I encourage everyone to join and be POLITE and RESPECTFUL of the other persons views, and open enough to understand and learn from the other person’s in this discussion/debate.

Here is the letter I sent to Franc Manhattan and Matthew Ford:

Hello Franc & Matt,

This is specksandplanks from SignPosts02.
You’re nice guys. And both you and Matt Ford are my Christian brothers in the Lord.

You can say I came across pretty strongly against what you were doing in Sydney. I am pretty sure I offended you guys. That is not my intention. I am sorry if I did. My intention is to warn my other brothers and sister in Christ to watch out for your ministry because I think it is dangerous.

I am very familiar with what you do alongside other controversial ministers and ministries. I would like to be wrong on my stance and views of your FireItUp ministries. I would prefer to believe that you guys are doing all this for God’s glory rather then for your own glory.

In that sense, I would like to invite you to discuss biblically what it is you are called to do in ministry. In light of the things you practice and move in, we as the Signposts02 community wish to welcome you in a thread to engage in discussion about what you do. We want to understand what you’re doing and support if what you are doing is indeed right.

We are all open for correction and I pray that we can all learn from each-others differences.

I am prepared to take back and apologise for anything that I have said and done that does not represent you rightly. In this, I pray, we can both exalt eachother and bless each others ministries.

We both believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and that this is the Age and Office of the Holy Spirit to lead and engage with the people of God. We both believe that it is important for the Holy Spirit to be in our meetings to heal, set free and deliver those from bondage.

Please respond at specks_and_planks@hotmail.com so that I may start up a thread so that we can discuss this as adults.

I do wish you the best in your ministry. I don’t want to be harsh on you and your ministry. We should all be open to grow and learn together, leaving any ego at the door. If anyone on the Signposts community attacks you, I will delete their comments. This letter will go up on Signposts so that we can expect you to communicate with us in that thread.

Sincerely,
S&P

[Edit:Inserted Text]

1. What is all this this suppose to achieve? √ ANSWERED
2. Because your fighting religion, doesn’t that make those who are trying NOT to be religious by ‘proving’ the Holy Ghost is at THEIR meetings and affecting them, to be religious? Or worse, doesn’t this make them MORE religious? X

You said: “Would I defend, why would I defend God if it was god, I dont think god needs defending. ”

I’d like you to answer questions 2, 3, 4 & 5 again more in line with you and Matt overseeing your movement rather then you focus on your world with Jesus. You are in a position where you have to make sure that people are growing in God and not growing in lies. It is implied that these types of Holy Ghost events are offending the religious and breaking religious strongholds. You might not have said this, but it is a large motivating factor for a lot of these Spiritual meetings that they are breaking free or away from the religious church. Your answer seemed like ‘meh!’. I’d like to know how this form of movement is indeed breaking and destroying the religious ‘thing’ in people, when I’ve seen religion in just a different way ‘in the Ghost charade’. How are you and Matt recognising and tackling the religious fakers and destroying religious strongholds? Do you encourage people to NOT fake it?

You seem to know a bit about the occult and stuff. I might ask that of you another time.

6. What makes you like the following people and the things they teach?
Benny Hinn (Who you highly endorse)
John Crowder
Rodney Howard Browne
Bob Jones
(Now Patricia King and Brandon Barthrop!) XXXXX

This was a question for Matt Ford because he promotes them. It’s not whether you like them or not, but why promote them because of their dangerous teachings (if you are aware of them).

7. Also, I know Franc is big on the angelic and has had some angelic experiences; but how do you test to see if they are of God? X

You didn’t answer how you test the spirits. And you missed answer Q9, which is pretty similar. If you can answer that with Q7, I’d greatly appreciate it.

8. What are you drinking ‘in’, toking ‘in’ or injecting ‘in’ to you if the Holy Spirit is already ‘in’ you? X

Our actions do ‘invite’ presences. You didn’t answer what is being injected ‘into’ believers though or what your thoughts are on that oddity.

Greg’s question:
9. I read somewhere… Matthew Ford claimed to have gone to a new age festival and stood in the centre of it and forced all the mediums at the festival to bow their heads – supposedly they were unable to operate.
What was the name of the festival, who was running it and where was it situated? √ ANSWERED & VERIFIED TO BE A TRUE ACCOUNT

RP’s question:
10. From what you said above, you never did levitations, and associate that kind of thing with the demonic. So were we under a false impression, and if so, why is there a reference to levitation on your website?

Last two questions:
11. The RePENTAGRAM. A youtube video of Matt Ford manifesting with two others in an actual pentagram called the repentagram. Surely you found the footage unsettling. Once again the lines are blurred from the occult and Christianity. Isn’t this border-line from your past experiences on the occult?

12. Teddy’s post: Brandon Barthrop. Matt Ford is best friend’s with this man and Patricia King on Facebook:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDOQyikIUdA

This is very similar to question 6. You can tag this with question 6. Why promote him and Patricia? Or associate yourself with this man specifically who is offensive to Christian’s, where also his ‘Holy lifestyle/ministry’ can be questioned? This question is more for Matt to ask.

Benny Hinny Summarised In A Nutty Shell

Who’s Giggling Matthew Ford?

Thanks for this lurkers of SignPosts02. Much appreciated!

Fire It Up International Ministries

Sydney Meetings EXTENDED

Matt Ford, Jul 25, 2009

Sydney Meetings EXTENDED! Hey Jesus Lovers! We were about to leave for the airport at 4:30am this morning when the Father siad to me “I am not finished yet”. Immediately the glory hit again and the atmosphere became charged with angels. That was all the confirmation I needed to stay. I have not yet released everything I am carrying in the Spirit/

We have had two amazing nights of Glory and incredible healing waves of Love being poured out in Sydney. There has been a truck load of opposition from religious church leaders and demonically inspired “witchy” prayer from various circles of saints, which has just added to the weighty glory that has been released. If ya need a good giggle go to http://signposts02.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/satanic-revival-in-sydney-get-drunk-possessed-in-jesus-name/

We have seen amazing fruit and power just in the two nights.

Meetings will continue at The Wine Barrel in Queensland as usual with my team taking over. Pastor Kerry will be ministering this afternoon at 4pm and 10am at Ipswich.

We will update the web site with venue and times later today as well as footage and testimonies of this weekend.

God is stiring something up. Is He stirring you up?

Love, Bliss and Blessings!

Matt

A Serious Boobie- I Mean Booboo!

Pathetic Pastors – Question Me, Oppose God

Teddy gave me the following link and blurb:

… This is an interesting article. Steve Furtick and Perry Noble run really big churches in the States. I believe Perry Noble may have spoken at Hillsong? … I find the attitude displayed by these comments in the articles even more serious as these guys are gaining credibility.

I couldn’t find any information that But Perry Noble has indeed spoken a few times at Hillsong. He spoke last year at Hillsong’s Mens Conference.

http://www.hillsong.com/newsletter/images/emails/spring-september-web.html

Mal Fletcher & Perry Noble join our Hillsong team for Men’s Conference 2008. Why don’t you get your Dad a Men’s Conference registration for Father’s Day!

Below the article, I encourage you to check out these pastors blogs to see why I am actually sympathetic towards them. Hearing their testimonies of where they came from, I can only imagine the burden they were under when they ‘felt the call of God’ on their lives to start their churches. I’ve been doing a lot of analysis on pastoral behaviour and observing how dedication, emotion and all the hard work they do may be the reason’s why they choose to take a similar lifestyle to the Crowder mob. To be noticed FINALLY of what they believe God has called them to do, pays off. And now they fight to keep it.

Division is a definite ‘no’, hype or the Holy Spirit is a must (so that people can come the following week to build your church financially). The church visions and open heaven visions, miracle-testimonies and divine experiences must keep happening (even if it’s an act or a lie), so that church’s cup on the outside attracts similar folk to get on board with the glory-glamour on stage.

Many pastors fear to return to nothing. Faith is meant to get you financially, successfully, spiritually and reputationally somewhere right? If it is encouraged that faith makes churches bigger, greater, prosperous and more spiritual, then is it any wonder that upcoming pastors will play the games of the bigboy pastors, to get there too?

Well here’s the link that Teddy gave to me. Enjoy!

http://www.pajamapages.com/?p=726

Question me, Oppose God

July 16th, 2009 by James Duncan

We’ve seen over the last few days how Furtick and Noble continue to insist that people believe their visions and that no questions or criticisms of their actions in pursuit of those visions can be tolerated. There is a deep danger in the way that they present their pronouncements as infallible, and then boldly and quickly pronounce anathema on their critics.

Let’s look at some examples of each.

1. Infallibility. Furtick specificially told us that when he hears from God, no-one may question him. The only reason that questions would be off the table is if you were sure that what you heard from God, and what you speak in response to it, is infallible. The consequence, as Noble has said, is that the leader must not be doubted.
   

   A leader should never allow doubters to dictate the direction of their ministry…when God speaks our obsession MUST be complete obedience!

   Not only does Noble not want to hear from any doubters, he dare not even think about them.

   When God puts a word inside of you – “what would others think about this?” is a question that completely dishonors Him!!! HE MATTERS!!!

   To ensure the aura of infallibility, they also present their behaviors and words as irrefutable. If you agree with it, it must be true, but if you disagree with it, it must be even truer. See if you can follow the logic in this Noble argument:

   Church planter–do what God called you to do…if people are speaking out against you…it probably means God has spoken into you and you are being obedient.

   Don’t waste the time God has given you on those who don’t like you…ever! If what you are doing is of God then critics can’t stop it!

   Although we’ve addressed the appeal to fatalism on this blog before, this is a more aggressive variation, where because something is is proof that it should be. Under this logic, a leader can never be disobedient so long as he’s being effective and being criticized.

2. Condemnation. If leaders represent God’s truth when they speak and act, the next step is to argue that anyone who opposes them is opposing God. Noble forcefully and literally demonizes his critics.
   

   The only person who would criticize a move of God is a jealous, angry, bitter person. And the other thought is that God would NEVER lead a person to criticize something that He in involved in. Well…uh…let’s see–if the criticism is not God led–then who is responsible? Hmm…just know that if you are doing what God desires…and you are being criticized…then it will help to view the critic as a tool of satan. (I make no apologies for that statement!!!) [emphasis added]

   When it comes to dealing with critics…Jesus dealt with them. Remember the Pharisees? And when it came to dealing with them He pulled no punches, He even referred to them as snakes, vipers, and whitewashed tombs. This is the attitude I have to take–that the religious will always criticize a move of God…and it breaks my heart because when you boil it down–even though the Pharisees were religious–they didn’t have a relationship with Jesus!

   Notice the equivalence. Someone who criticizes Noble is ipso facto criticizing Jesus, which means that they cannot be a part of the family of God.

   Here’s another example of Noble characterizing his critics as heathen, while mixing in his irrefutable logic (that is, if you criticize him, it proves that he is right).

   I honestly believe that a true follower of Jesus Christ will make religious people both uncomfortable and angry…and as long as those are the men and women shooting the arrows at me then I know I am walking in the right path.  (John 15:18-21)

   It’s not that I don’t care about you guys…it’s that I care enough to ignore you!  You see, if what we are doing is wrong and sinful then the Lord will handle us…but if what we are doing here at NewSpring Church is of God…you can’t stop it (Acts 5:35-39) and are actually not opposing us…but Him.  (BTW…you lose!)

There are several notable implications from this approach. First, is it really smart to be raising the stakes so high that you call the faith of your critics into question just for raising a question? Noble is drawing a line in the sand and saying that he’s on the Christian side of it, and the rest of us are on Satan’s side. When you’re a leader of a movement that is sensitive to some people calling it cultish, separating the family of God into saved and unsaved depending on your fidelity to a human leader is hardly going to make those fears go away. We critics are often pressed to affirm that we believe we’re all on the same side. The are you all on the same team? question would more fruitfully be asked of people like Perry Noble.

Second, what are you communicating to your own followers about the worth and dignity of Christians who are outside of your movement and, based on their own commitment to the Word of God, question the beliefs and methods of these charismatic leaders? When you call us sons and daughters of the Devil, what kinds of passions do you unleash and endorse among your true believers?

http://www.stevenfurtick.com/

http://www.perrynoble.com/

Question me, Oppose God

July 16th, 2009 by James Duncan

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We’ve seen over the last few days how Furtick and Noble continue to insist that people believe their visions and that no questions or criticisms of their actions in pursuit of those visions can be tolerated. There is a deep danger in the way that they present their pronouncements as infallible, and then boldly and quickly pronounce anathema on their critics.

Let’s look at some examples of each.

1. Infallibility. Furtick specificially told us that when he hears from God, no-one may question him. The only reason that questions would be off the table is if you were sure that what you heard from God, and what you speak in response to it, is infallible. The consequence, as Noble has said, is that the leader must not be doubted.
   

   A leader should never allow doubters to dictate the direction of their ministry…when God speaks our obsession MUST be complete obedience!

   Not only does Noble not want to hear from any doubters, he dare not even think about them.

   When God puts a word inside of you – “what would others think about this?” is a question that completely dishonors Him!!! HE MATTERS!!!

   To ensure the aura of infallibility, they also present their behaviors and words as irrefutable. If you agree with it, it must be true, but if you disagree with it, it must be even truer. See if you can follow the logic in this Noble argument:

   Church planter–do what God called you to do…if people are speaking out against you…it probably means God has spoken into you and you are being obedient.

   Don’t waste the time God has given you on those who don’t like you…ever! If what you are doing is of God then critics can’t stop it!

   Although we’ve addressed the appeal to fatalism on this blog before, this is a more aggressive variation, where because something is is proof that it should be. Under this logic, a leader can never be disobedient so long as he’s being effective and being criticized.

2. Condemnation. If leaders represent God’s truth when they speak and act, the next step is to argue that anyone who opposes them is opposing God. Noble forcefully and literally demonizes his critics.
   

   The only person who would criticize a move of God is a jealous, angry, bitter person. And the other thought is that God would NEVER lead a person to criticize something that He in involved in. Well…uh…let’s see–if the criticism is not God led–then who is responsible? Hmm…just know that if you are doing what God desires…and you are being criticized…then it will help to view the critic as a tool of satan. (I make no apologies for that statement!!!) [emphasis added]

   When it comes to dealing with critics…Jesus dealt with them. Remember the Pharisees? And when it came to dealing with them He pulled no punches, He even referred to them as snakes, vipers, and whitewashed tombs. This is the attitude I have to take–that the religious will always criticize a move of God…and it breaks my heart because when you boil it down–even though the Pharisees were religious–they didn’t have a relationship with Jesus!

   Notice the equivalence. Someone who criticizes Noble is ipso facto criticizing Jesus, which means that they cannot be a part of the family of God.

   Here’s another example of Noble characterizing his critics as heathen, while mixing in his irrefutable logic (that is, if you criticize him, it proves that he is right).

   I honestly believe that a true follower of Jesus Christ will make religious people both uncomfortable and angry…and as long as those are the men and women shooting the arrows at me then I know I am walking in the right path.  (John 15:18-21)

   It’s not that I don’t care about you guys…it’s that I care enough to ignore you!  You see, if what we are doing is wrong and sinful then the Lord will handle us…but if what we are doing here at NewSpring Church is of God…you can’t stop it (Acts 5:35-39) and are actually not opposing us…but Him.  (BTW…you lose!)

There are several notable implications from this approach. First, is it really smart to be raising the stakes so high that you call the faith of your critics into question just for raising a question? Noble is drawing a line in the sand and saying that he’s on the Christian side of it, and the rest of us are on Satan’s side. When you’re a leader of a movement that is sensitive to some people calling it cultish, separating the family of God into saved and unsaved depending on your fidelity to a human leader is hardly going to make those fears go away. We critics are often pressed to affirm that we believe we’re all on the same side. The are you all on the same team? question would more fruitfully be asked of people like Perry Noble.

Second, what are you communicating to your own followers about the worth and dignity of Christians who are outside of your movement and, based on their own commitment to the Word of God, question the beliefs and methods of these charismatic leaders? When you call us sons and daughters of the Devil, what kinds of passions do you unleash and endorse among your true believers?

Cretinous Crowder Crapping On Again

I actually found this amusing, til I got sick of Crowder’s devil tongue. Watch him twist the scriptures by using dodgy biblical translations to say what he wants. Absolutely amazing! This is a blatant manifestation of the Latter Rain heresies and practices!

Ladyship In Leadership (Battle Of The Red-Dirts!)

“But I agree discuss over at SP2 is more civil.” - MJ

This article is in response from the comments of Groupsects here:

http://groupsects.wordpress.com/2009/07/13/how-hillong-coaches-its-pastors-to-create-those-lame-life-illustrations-for-the-offering/#comments

TO get the conversations going, I’ll post a few key responses from GroupSects so that it may continue (if it is not too late already!):

“Don’t forget to include Titus 1:6…., the husband of but one wife.” - teddy

“Funny how you’ll grasp an old testament teaching on women in leadership and say it’s valid but when it comes to tithing you say because it’s OT it’s not relevant?

I’m not against either, if one feels so led then fine. I have received some great insight into some passages of scripture from the preaching of women, as with men. Even out of the mouths of children… and Teddy, to say “take it up with God..” what a weak, weak position.” – Alias

“Where else do we go then beside His Word. The heart is deceitful above all else so our views can’t be validated anywhere else. If my opinion doesn’t line up with God’s CLEAR teaching, guess who’s wrong? Where’s the OT scripture your’e referring to – Deborah in Judges I guess, but that in itself is judgment. Her leadership was not spiritual by the way. Let me clarify that last statement, I posted too soon. She acted primarily in the role of an arbiter, not as an ongoing leader, which explains why she called on Barak when needing military leadership against the Canaanites. There’s no other occasion where she had engaged in any ongoing prophetic work.

God has given women a different role in the church. Men and women are equal in spiritual privilege, capacity, blessedness, and promise. Both are able to serve the Lord effectively. But the responsibility of overseeing a church is limited to men.” - Teddy

“… Paul wrote many times of women who were doing equal work in the church to men, Lydia, Priscilla, Junia (who was commended as an apostle and see as an outstanding one) and also Tryphena, Tryphosa, and Persis, “women who work hard in the Lord. He also mentions Phoebe as a deacon in the church, as well Mary and Chloe. He wrote far more about women and appreciated women in Ministry far more than we generally recognise. Teddy I see you accept that both men and women are able to serve the Lord effectively, however I think from Pauls writing that women were in leadership in the early church and that there is no real reason why women can not be heads of churches.

Gal. 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” is a call for equal roles within the church, despite the fact that it is speaking about salvation primarily it has impact on social roles as well.

this is a great discussion on women in ministry – very long but well worth the read I think.” – Greg The Explorer

“The ultimate result of a woman being given authority -Katherine Schori claims individual salvation is heresy http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10782 ” - Teddy

“I feel sorry for you Teddy, in this instance. In case you’re serious about your sarcasm question, my point was that you can’t possibly expect anyone to draw a line between one example of “women in authority” and all women who preach. I mean, seriously? That’s the best you’ve got?” – Alias

“Why do you feel sorry for me? What a strange thing to say. Especially to someone that has come out of 22 years of church lite aka C3. Katherine Schori is a pretty good example of what happens when church denominations go liberal. And I’m a member of a great anglican church now. And that’s the last thing I would have expected to happen – btw!” - Teddy

“I think it’s great that you are doing well, please don’t misunderstand me. I guess I’m surprised that you seem so resigned to your ‘fate’ as a female.” – Alias

“And now we have Paula white back “pastoring” Without Walls the charismatic church founded by she and her now ex-husband – this list of flaky, no sound doctrine, female leadership just goes on and on!! Sorry to be seeming to belabour the point. Attached is a fine example of what she believes:

“ – Teddy

“Teddy, I do respect your view, but do differ based upon scripture itself. But regardless of which perspective we have, really, Paula White??? Its a bit like putting Steve Munsey or Phil Pringle up as examples of male preachers/teachers. Not fair!” – RavingPente

“Teddy, I’d like to hear your take on Galatians 3:28 and how it affects the position of women in ministry. Also have you had a look at the paper I linked to?” - Greg The Explorer

So there are a few comments. I will post up Craig’s comments too. Just recently in my church environment, this issue came up with eldership and counselling women as leaders. So my views on this are being challenged. I might add my tuppenceworth a bit later. So fire away. For the sake of just stirring the fire; I will take a side blindly and say that it is biblical for women to submit to men, married or not, when it comes to leadership. Taht’ll get a few people hopping. This is an important issue to discuss.

S&P

Warren Is As Cheap As His Words

Found this from http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/ :

From The Orange County Register as cited at the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) website:

Speaking to a crowd of nearly 8,000 Muslims at the Islamic Society of North America’s annual convention in Washington D.C., Saddleback Church Pastor Rick Warren called on Muslims and Christians to form an interfaith coalition to combat prejudice and stereotypes. While Fourth of July revelers staked out seats to watch fireworks at the nearby Capitol Building, Warren addressed convention-goers – some of them from Orange County Muslim student associations – about the need for mutual respect.

“Tolerance is not enough,” Warren said. “People don’t want to be tolerated, they want to be respected, they want to be listened to. They want to be valued.” Armed with four ideas for action, Warren called on Muslims and Christians to work together to create respect, restore civility to civilization, promote peace and tackle major world problems. “I am not interested in interfaith dialogue, I am interested in interfaith projects,” Warren said. “Talk is very cheap.”…

If you haven’t yet heard Warren’s talk at ISNA we have a video of it below that apparently the Saddleback censors missed. You may want to save it quickly as odds are it will be gone within an hour.

The Old Is Gone, The New Remains (Old Signposts GONE!)

Signposts02 heritage has been taken off the web. The old signposts is officially gone!

liquidpixel.com that is still on the case with CCC, was using the original Signposts to link to sources from the original. If I remember correctly, were there certain individuals who decided to save all the contents of the Signposts website onto their computers? If so, please e-mail me at specks_and_planks@hotmail.com .

Some articles might be worth looking through!

I’ve already e-mailed liquidpixel and I’m sure if he replies to me via e-mail or here, they would value if you could supply him with the information that is now taken down.

Signposts will be sorely missed by many!

RIP Signposts

 

S&P

All For Love’s Sake Became Worse?

Benjamin Dunn is the man that ministered besides the heretic John Crowder with the Drunken Glory Tour and the Wales SloshFest. Dunn seems to be someone else now! (Or is the camera lying!)

This voyage around the world may seem harmless. But knowing how Dunn ‘ministers’ (and how I found myself going ‘aawwweeee!’ to the people they came across), what do you think about his “drunken glory” antics to the poor places he’s been too? Is this enough to glorify Jesus? Or is he actually behaving like another person completely and ministering in an anti-drunkenglory state? Or (dare I say it), do you think he may be using the poor to give himself and his ministry a new identity away from the lunacies of Crowder’s ministry? Has there been a separation between Crowder and Dunn?

I was personally moved by this. Their seemed to be genuine tears (as we assume they just gave their life to the Lord). I can only pray they met the Lord that day. Still I heard nothing about Jesus. This was the closest they came to talk about a Godlike conversion (?) on the second video:

1:43 – “A couple are really backslidden and they’re prodigals coming home. So ya’know there you go.  We wanna lift the burden of religion off of them. And show it’s just about love and hugs…”

What are your thoughts on that? Is love enough to make a difference in this ministry, or does Christ crucified need to be preached to make all the difference?

 

S&P