http://www.ccc.org.au/som/default.asp?page=somInternat
From CCC’s School Of Ministry brag-page:
“Students have the opportunity to learn from some of the most gifted and experienced ministers in the world today – God’s general’s for this hour. In recent years this has included the following international ministries: 1. Dr David Yonggi Cho (Yoido Full Gospel Church – South Korea) 2. Reverend Bill Hybels (Willow Creek Community Church – USA) 3. Reverend Joyce Meyer (Joyce Meyer Ministries – USA) 4. Reverend Kong Hee (City Harvest Church – Singapore) 5. Reverend Nancy Alcorn (Mercy Ministries – USA) 6. Bishop Joseph Garlington (Covenant Church of Pittsburg – USA) 7. Pastor Dick Bernall (Jubilee Christian Center – USA) 8. Reverend Jesse Duplantis (Jesse Duplantis Ministries – USA) 9. Reverend Kathy Lechner (Covenant Ministries – USA) 10. Pastor Michael Pitts (Cornerstone Church – USA) 11. Dr Christian & Pastor Robin Harfouche (Christian Harfouche Ministries – USA) 12. Pastor Rick Shelton (Life Christian Church – USA) 13. Pastor Di Divett (Christian City Church – New Zealand) 14. Reverend Fergus McIntyre (Global Mission – Australia) 15. Reverend Margaret Court (Margaret Court Ministries – Australia) 16. Kate Miner (www.kateminer.com – USA) 17. Reverend Peter Youngren (World Impact Ministries – USA) 18. Lisa McInnes Smith (www.lisaspeaks.com – Australia) 19. Bishop TD Jakes (www.thepottershouse.org) INTERNATIONAL EVENTS Christian City Church hosts a number of exciting international conferences and events each year. Students are encouraged to serve and get involved at every level in order to gain insight into the management and functioning of ministry areas that may otherwise not be available to them. The advantages are obvious…”
Here is another example in how ignorant CCC are when it comes to teaching students with the aid of ’successful leaders’. T D Jakes is a heretic: a Oneness Pentecostal (Jesus Only) teacher. It’s this teaching and belief that denies the trinity, carries the belief that Christ is a liar and denies the finished work of the cross: Arminianism. In OP doctrine, you and me aren’t saved and not part of the elect because we aren’t baptised in the name of Jesus Christ, but under the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I came across this because I heard about another dodgy preacher Michael Pitts that spoke at CCC. This man’s theology is so incredibly flawed with bad analogies and twisted scripture that he should be avoided at all costs! I will post up other information up on him in another article. I just want to look at the college side of wolvery. Is it the pastor of the church that endorses who can rightfully speak into students lives or is the final decision left with the principal of the bible college?
If theology is the focus of the bible college, shouldn’t the decision be left with the principal to see the credibility of the teachers he allows to speak over students lives? BTW, who else from the list above is either a good teacher or dodgy?
Edit: Rick Shelton has been expressed on this forum as being a teacher of reasonable character. His teachings we don’t know about fully yet.
July 1, 2009 at 11:32 am
di divett isn’t at CCC auckland anymore—hasn’t been for a few years as far as i’m aware . . . odd eh?
July 1, 2009 at 6:52 pm
in other news … don’t be so quick to dismiss arminianism.
I don’t like that word anyway, much as I don’t like the word calvinism.
Essentially, both doctrines ignore part of scripture. They are two sides of the same coin. The extreme calvinist position is that God has chosen only a small handful of people to join Him in Heaven, the rest are damned. I can’t go along with that.
The extreme Arminian position is, I suppose, that you have to become righteous before God accepts you. (I may be making it more extreme with that statement.)
The truth is, we have been justified (reckoned right with God), we are being sanctified (being made right in God’s sight), we will be Glorified (made Holy in everyone’s sight.)
That’s how I would define it. The mild arminianism I would support would be to say that if you give up on God, God will eventually give up on you.
In other words, I do not agree with the statement “Once saved, Always saved.”
I believe that such an ideology ignores key passages of the new testament (more than 80 passages) while emphasising specific verses as promises out of the immediate context. An extreme Arminianism tends to ignore the promises of course.
A debate for another thread.
T.D. Jakes, of course is a oneness pentecostal and as such in same bag as mormons and JW’s, moonies and Paul Yonggi Cho who is more buddhist than Christian.
And … why not … Kabbalist, gnostic Rick Joyner is also on the take. “By their ‘noses in the trough’ ye shall know them.”
When I see all that going on, it’s almost enough for me to abandon the truth and set up my own mega-church … I could teach people how to ‘live their best life now’, tell them ‘they need more money’ and encourage my wife to teach the young women in our church that “Kingdom women love sex.”
Like Todd Bentley, I’d have my own financial angel giving me my own financial breakthrough. … Where I become a millionaire! As long as I teach people that they need to obey the Law of Moses on Tithing and the Sabbath of course.
But no. I can’t do that. I want to be able to sleep without a guilty conscience. I don’t want to stifle my conscience like them fellas.
Shalom.
July 2, 2009 at 11:46 am
Hey Bull, you might like reading and listening to the attached sermon.
http://mikeratliff.wordpress.com/2009/06/11/a-must-hear-sermon-on-election/
July 2, 2009 at 12:16 pm
It was interesting to see Nancy Alcorn of Mercy Ministries on that list, too. Oh dear. I would hate to think that her methods were being taught at the Bible College for some reason, after the effects on some of the young women who went through her program. I guess we don’t know in what context she was teaching.
Re who chooses the speakers – if the college is representing CCCOF and its teachings, then you’d expect them to have something in common, including the same speakers. I imagine many of these speakers taught at both the church and the college. If you go to the church then you’d have a good idea what to expect at the college – more of the same, perhaps in more detail. So in that sense the Principal wouldn’t necessarily select all the speakers. Can you imagine if Phil Pringle had invited T D Jakes to speak in church, and offered for him to speak in college, and the principal turned around and said, ‘no thanks – I don’t like his theology?’ Not going to happen! Not if the principal wants to keep his job.
The college represents the church, so the college will take any speakers endorsed by the church.
This list of speakers then gives a good picture of what theology is endorsed by Phil Pringle and therefore the CCC movement as a whole, since PP is the head (the one with the gift of apostleship, as per the C3i website, and therefore the ultimate authority).
July 2, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Somewhere along the way I’ve lost my angst about all of this. I think its because I’m not attending on Sunday any more, and hearing the misleading doctrines preached. It’s much better – I’m more peaceful. I’ve also replaced that with other more thoughtful authors, and discussions with other Christians who know how to live without that stuff, or at least aren’t judgemental about my stance. This blog and the thoughtful comments here have helped, too.
People that I know who have been negatively affected by some of these teachings/doctrines are currently opening their eyes, or have had them opened, and are gradually being freed from some of this stuff, or its consequences. None have lost their faith – if anything, I think their walks are deepening as new ways of seeing/doing things in God open up.
So I’m encouraged by this.
As a result, I don’t have the angst to write many new posts about it, I’m afraid – not much controversy in my corner. Rather, I’m just staying away from those types of places – I cannot imagine going back. There may be other churches in the future, but not for a while. If there are, they will be places I can be part of in peace, rather than going home after a service all riled up.
July 2, 2009 at 3:45 pm
TTT is back.
July 2, 2009 at 10:47 pm
I know! I’m happy too.
BTW. Does anyone know any information on Michael Pitts from the list? He seems really dodgy with some online articles, but I am not quite sure if they are true.
If they are… YIKES!!!
July 3, 2009 at 6:38 am
If the info included charges etc for drink driving, they’re true. I’ve read the court transcripts.
July 3, 2009 at 1:56 pm
So S&P – if we are both happy and peaceful, then what will become of this site?
Someone else better come up with some content!
I can write posts while I’m peaceful, but they might be a bit boring. Plus I’m still interested what’s happening out there.
July 3, 2009 at 5:09 pm
“So S&P – if we are both happy and peaceful, then what will become of this site?”
Don’t worry. I’ll start worrying again after this moment of happiness. Then depression will kick in after my moment of worry… Then my religious theology will be intertwined with my internal bitterness and I will produce a multitude of bias articles against even the perfect church!
August 17, 2009 at 11:07 am
To whom it may concern:
After “stumbling” across your heretic hunter’s site, all I can say, with the most sincerity possible, is that I pity you that you feel you have to stoop to this level to fulfill “your call” of ministry. There is so much work to be done, and as long as cypberspace and the air waves are “filled” with this type of ongoing division in the church, the great commission will never, never be fulfilled.
You may not be aware of it, but the greatest confrontations Jesus had in scripture were with the religious leaders and the Pharisees who “did everything” right on the outside, but inside they were full of contempt, jealousy, hatred, and a host of other things that could have been so easily removed by the entrance of agape love for others.
In closing, Rick Shelton has been “my” pastor for the last ten years, and since he finally has overcome a 7-yr battle with afflictions that would have taken out many unbelieving and faithless people, we have had people saved “every”, single Sunday morning service for the last three and half years. Every Sunday. And we’re starting to see people healed regularly…yes with confirmed Dr. reports.
You want to know what just one of the things is about Rick that I appreciate. He absolutely will not attack or run down “any” religion or denominational leader outside his beliefs. He walks in a level of love that I have a long ways go in yet, and apparently I’m not the only one who needs practice in this…am I?
I don’t know all the other people that you’re suggesting are wolves whose picture you have up here. But I know one of them personally, and every member of their family, and until you’re even close to accomplishing what they have for God’s kingdom– millions of salvations, with signed cards, several million children fed annually, hundreds of thousands of peoples lives put back together and back on track with documented proof, orphanges fully-funded, and dozens and dozens of girls brought of forced prostitution, rape and abuse, and this is just the tip of the iceberg, I suggest you rethink who you’re calling a wolf, sir.
Just because everybody outside your small realm of thinking doesn’t look just like you, and sound like you and do things just like you’d do it, doesn’t mean that God can’t or won’t package the salvation message in different containers and deliver it differently than you would. He’s been around a lot longer than you and I will and He will use anybody that’s willing, and He may not put them all in 3-piece suit and have them singing Bringing in the Sheaves.
Thank you,
D.Botz
August 17, 2009 at 11:13 am
To whom it may concern:
After “stumbling” across your heretic hunter’s site, all I can say, with the most sincerity possible, is that I pity you that you feel you have to stoop to this level to fulfill “your call” of ministry. There is so much work to be done, and as long as cypberspace and the air waves are “filled” with this type of ongoing division in the church, the great commission will never, never be fulfilled.
You may not be aware of it, but the greatest confrontations Jesus had in scripture were with the religious leaders and the Pharisees who “did everything” right on the outside, but inside they were full of contempt, jealousy, hatred, and a host of other things that could have been so easily removed by the entrance of agape love for others.
In closing, Rick Shelton has been “my” pastor for the last ten years, and since he finally has overcome a 7-yr battle with afflictions that would have taken out many unbelieving and faithless people, we have had people saved “every”, single Sunday morning service for the last three and half years. Every Sunday. And we’re starting to see people healed regularly…yes with confirmed Dr. reports.
You want to know what just one of the things is about Rick that I appreciate. He absolutely will not attack or run down “any” religion or denominational leader outside his beliefs. He walks in a level of love that I have a long ways go in yet, and apparently I’m not the only one who needs practice in this…am I?
I don’t know all the other people that you’re suggesting are wolves whose picture you have up here. But I know one of them personally, and every member of their family, and until you’re even close to accomplishing what they have for God’s kingdom– millions of salvations, with signed cards, several million children fed annually, hundreds of thousands of peoples lives put back together and back on track with documented proof, orphanges fully-funded, and dozens and dozens of girls brought out of forced prostitution, rape and abuse, and this is just the tip of the iceberg, I suggest you rethink who you’re calling a wolf, sir.
Just because everybody outside your small realm of thinking doesn’t look just like you, and sound like you and do things just like you’d do it, doesn’t mean that God can’t or won’t package the salvation message in different containers and deliver it differently than you would. He’s been around a lot longer than you and I will and He will use anybody that’s willing, and He may not put them all in 3-piece suit and have them singing Bringing in the Sheaves.
Thank you,
D.Botz
August 17, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Rick Shelton is the only visitor to C3 in 22 years in whom I ever appreciated and recognised a real humility, for what it’s worth.
August 17, 2009 at 4:02 pm
Thanks for that information Dennis Botz about your pastor Rick Shelton.
Can you (or Teddy) confirm that he does not teach the following:
Church Covering Doctrine
Prosperity Doctrine
House Of God Doctrine
Church Planted Doctrine
If he is sincere and humbling as you say he is, I am more then willing to take it down. I copied and pasted this article up from CCC’s bible ministry aware that some of the ‘teachers’ were quite dangerous. Others I weren’t sure of which is why I asked:
“who else from the list above is either a good teacher or dodgy?”
He seems genuine. If he’s a good teacher, then great! I’ll let that be known in the article!
August 17, 2009 at 5:02 pm
My view of Rick is purely personal, I liked him as a humble man. His theology I didn’t know – this was back in the old days before I left C3 – before we became Reformed.
August 17, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Then I’ll just say that Rick Shelton has been expressed on this forum as being a teachers of reasonable character. His teachings we don’t know about.
October 6, 2009 at 6:25 pm
i visited your website i pleassed with it and i wish to have a partnership with you if it is possible it will be a blessing to us and our nations is me pastor Mugunda Eric from living word international ministries
in Rwanda God bless you
October 6, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Interesting …
Dennis Botz clearly dislikes Heresy Hunters.
He should try reading Galatians again. I guess Dennis doesn’t like the Apostle Paul as he was a heresy hunter too. Paul also commended the Bereans who tested everything by scripture to prove that things were of the Lord.
I have no problem being labelled a heresy hunter. I have no problem being called a fundamentalist, or an evangelical. All these labels now have a pejorative connotation … that means “they are insults” (to heretic
)
Dennis needs to realise we only know Rick Shelton by his associations. We know them … so Rick is mixing with dubious characters.
It’s ok for Dennis to get angry and upset … it proves he is passionate about what God is doing. That’s great. Dennis, may the Lord bless you.
Magunda Eric, you are more than welcome to share your testimony and your thoughts and ideas with us. Welcome to the collective.
Shalom
October 6, 2009 at 10:36 pm
don’t be critical of Arminianism … I lean in that direction myself.
I don’t believe in “once saved always saved”. However I am not a oneness pentecostal like arch heretic TD Jakes.
October 7, 2009 at 6:41 am
Bull, you may enjoy listening to Jim McClarty on Theologytalk 2.0
http://www.gcaarchive.com/theologytalk.shtml