The Big-Bam MegaScam

November 26, 2009

Bentley posts…

Todd Bentleys Healing School is a 4 day/ 16 session intense training school designed for pastors, evangelists, ministries, hungry saints and those who want to move in a greater dimension of healing. Right now we are offering an early bird special price of $85.00. For more information or to register check out www.freshfireusa.com.

Fresh Fire Ministries USA Healing School

Time:Wednesday, 03 February 2010 10:00

Location:Heritage International Ministries 375 Star light Dr. Fort Mill, South Carolina 29715

Will Bentley be employing his teachers ‘Winds of Change’ and ‘Emma’? You might want to check out the link above. The video was interesting. He comes across quite conservative now and seems to be working at MorningStar Ministries Heresy Headquarters. Not to mention he’s being influenced by John Crowder’s terminology. ‘Healing slosh’?

And to your adverts on the right, they are selling simony! By an ‘anointing bundle’ for $30. After that discussion we had on what the ‘anointing’ was on Signposts02, I can only assume they are selling some form of spiritual power. As to which I would go so far as to say they are selling demonic material.

Or why not go to the ‘Equipping School’ advertised, where you can manifest generational wickedness by pursuing signs and wonders. If you don’t want to join Hillsong’s ‘heart’ against poverty, then maybe the eyes of the starving children in the ‘Change The World’ advert is enough for you to be under the banner of Fresh Fire Ministries.

So join his ministries today, where you’re fire will never be fresh enough so you’ll have to keep buying his materials to keep your anointing and fire upgraded and up to date. Pick up your wand and follow Harry Potter into Todd Bentley’s ministry. No magic, signs and wonders can change this ministries spots.


Applying the Old Promises to the New People

November 25, 2009

A comment of Bull’s reminded me of a style of preaching that I used to hear frequently at my megachurch – any promises that were given to Israel in the Old Testament seemed to be lifted fairly freely into sermons that applied to our church as a ‘people’ or to the church in Australia – or anywhere really.  Here is Bull’s comment:

…when talking about God judging a Nation … we certainly see examples of God Judging Israel. We also see the Judgment of God on other Nations around Israel.

Those who bless Israel are blessed, those who curse Israel are cursed.

Now, we come to some of the promises … I will paraphrase.

“Keep my commandments and turn from your wicked ways and I will heal your land.”
(Chronicles …)

I had that quoted in my church on Sunday. Well, the land associated with this promise is not the UK, much less Australia. It is Israel.

– Bull

Romans 11:17 is one of the verses used to justify this approach:

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree

– NASB

Can we apply OT promises made to Israel or the Jewish people to ourselves in any context?  Is it legitimate to frequently draw these conclusions when preaching to a congregation? Does anyone have any good relevant examples?

Given how prevalent this style of preaching is, applying both promises and principles based on these things, its worthwhile taking a look at it.

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RavingPente


A Megachurch Mega-rant… Or Mega-flop?

November 19, 2009

This is Hillsong’s new film about the HillsongUnited band. (You can see this film in limited screenings at Hoyts as well!)

http://www.theiheartfilm.com/

I found this odd coming from Brian Houston’s son.

Change has to start in one’s own back yard if they want to be taken seriously. Does this mean he is going to be going against the grain of his father? Taking back from the rich to give to the poor? I do believe he may be in a good position to do this outstanding work, but a film? Just go watch SBS or ABC and feel bad that way about injustice and lack of love in the world. Justice is a practice so lacking in HIllsong for nearly (or more than) a decade. Will Joel be actually achieving anything. The preview was enough to turn me off. A bunch of Christian’s discovering that the world lacks justice and love… So what? That’s new? We often examine Hillsong.

I just think that it is sad that their MESSAGE is not the gospel. Then again:

Hillsong United

Beginning in Sydney Australia as part of the youth ministry of Hillsong Church, Hillsong United have since gone on to travel the world, taking their message of worship and justice to over 40 countries and 6 continents.

While firmly anchored in their local church, Hillsong United have had the privilege of taking the spirit, hunger and sound of their local youth ministry to a global audience through their albums, worship tours and Encounter conferences.

Hillsong United is about giving voice to this generation, challenging young people to rise up and seize their moment in history, connecting people with God and each other.

From Catalyst http://www.catalystspace.com/content/read/the_i_heart_revolution_were_all_in_this_together/ :

The I Heart Revolution has been an ongoing project birthed in the heart of Joel Houston nearly four years ago. It is essentially about love, the notion that worship and justice are inextricably linked. Whilst driving to an event in Columbia passing so much injustice He felt the burden for something more: “If what’s happening within those 4 walls is having no effect on those streets we travelled down to get there… Then maybe we’re missing the point” – Joel

This project has two parts. Part 1 is the worship – Hillsong United released a CD and DVD recorded around the world. With Hearts as OneWe’re All In This Together, is a feature length documentary following United’s journey, as they are confronted and ultimately overwhelmed by the stories of remarkable individuals facing injustice and the uncomfortable paradox of being united in worship yet divided in circumstance. If their entire focus is directed only to what happens on stage, then maybe they have missed the point altogether.

Filmed over a period of 3 years, We’re all in this together takes you across 6 continents 42 nations and 93 cities in a cross-cultural journey of music, animation, interviews and live action documentary as the realisation that every story of hope, love, loss and sacrifice ultimately points to the one story.

The I Heart film ‘WE’RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER’ will officially be launched on the 4th of November in cinemas all across the USA and Canada in a 1-night event hosted live from Australia – featuring brand new songs by Hillsong United. Tickets are limited and you can get them here.


Friendship Beyond the Building

November 18, 2009

Mj recently mentioned that she had friends at her former church who sadly, she no longer hears from any more.  For those of us who leave churches, for whatever reason, friendships are one of the things that we often lose as a result.

There are many friendships at church where just like in the workplace, once you move on, you don’t have any reason to see the people again, even though you may have gotten along very well.  Finding the time to pursue friendships when you no longer just come across one another in the course of your weekly activities is not always easy, and takes effort on both sides.  Some friendships will cease when we move on from a church, for this reason alone.

Other times, depending upon the reason for leaving, people may no longer want to be associated with you.  They may regard you as rebellious or backslidden, especially if you no longer attend any church at all.  They may be concerned that you will be a bad influence on them or others.  If you were critical of your former church or its practices, sometimes people may even be discouraged from being in contact with you.  In extreme cases, people are shunned.

Many of us will fortunately have some friendships which do stand the test of someone moving on – obviously this won’t be everyone we know, but those who we have a deeper connection with, or get on with particularly well, where both people do make effort to find the time to continue their relationships.  Some of these friendships may last years, or even a life time.  They are to be highly valued.  I believe that these people are often the ones that God puts into our lives to be our ‘church’ over the long term.  They are often the ones we can share deep issues with; we may have differences of opinion but the friendship will remain; we can support one another over time in ways that matter, and not as a program dictates.  We may have met some of these friends in a church, but the friendships survive well beyond the building or organisation.

It is especially difficult for people when they have been involved in a particular church for many years, and practically all their non-work friendships and social network are there.  When they leave, if the connection to that network is withdrawn, it can be like losing a loved one.  People there go on without you; you are no longer invited to social activities; slowly you drop off the radar.  Yet you may have thought you were loved by these people – and loved them in return.   Maybe some people see you, but only with the agenda of getting you back in again, or dealing with any guilt they may have relating to your situation.   You may question what the friendship actually ever was.  You may have no other network of friends to fill the hole left, yet it is impossible to just return.

How can people deal with these things?  How long does it take to get through the loss of an entire network of friends?  Is there anything that can help?

 


Clash for Cash – Barthrop Defiles Jesus

November 17, 2009

Brandon Barthop has gone too far!

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“JOLLY TRIUMPH” & “THE NEVERENDING STORY JESUS”

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Dare to see the shirts? Quick warning: you may get extremely offended by the others!

A Power or Problem With Teaching ‘Principles’ In Church?

November 17, 2009

I think what Heretic said, is very insightful about ‘principles’.

You live in Jesus not through so-called principles. So-called biblical principles that the bible does not teach. Additions to scripture that are used to manipulate. So-called biblical principles are the modern fraudsters’ attempts to reinterpret Jesus words as a new form of law to control people.

Tithing is a perfect example. People such as yourself twist the scripture in knots to come up with “principles” that will get people to give you their money (although you probably just use someone else’s convenient pre-twisted doctrine to be fair). It can’t be done from scripture so you make it “tithing by faith” (I remember the discussion – how can I forget the logic). Just one example of many so-called biblical principles but oh so prevalent. I can see why you step up to the plate to support the fraudsters. It is called “moral hazard”. Completely human and appropriate moral hazard.

The passage you reference is a good one but does not talk about principles – but it does show how we should live and so answers your own question which is good.

What it does talk about is for the following purpose: “in regard to the acknowledging of our Lord Jesus Christ”. Living in acknowledgment of Father is how we live. Another verse says it again: “in all your ways acknowledge him”.

Knowing Father is eternal life. Living by man-made principles is not.

Even if the man-made principles were derived from Truth that does not make them true. Even if they were true (and the ones I have heard from the pulpit are generally not) they are still not life.

There is no law that gives life – a relationship with Father through Jesus gives life. Nothing else does.

A bunch of principles to live by is a way to remove someones life from him. That is why Paul railed against the concept so passionately.

But truly I don’t expect you to get it. It is a stumbling block and an offense.

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I believe if you put the gospel first, the Spirit will allow those ‘principles’ to flow out of you. To always focus on principles more then the gospel is gnat straining. However, this deserves another thread to be discussed about. Not here. And since it has occured to me Outcast, that you are Facelift (I’ll have to check up on that), I’ll have to get the flyspray out again.

If you feel this is not true, feel free to air your views as to why.


A Short Treatise on Church

November 16, 2009

Stephen Bennett, who used to be a song writer, composer and worship leader at CCC many years ago, has put this little video up on youtube.

It’s a simple video about what church really is.  Stephen Bennett points out that church is the people, and not a denomination, a building or any kind of organisation.  At the same time, he recognises the organisation that took place in the early church, and the importance that local church has in people’s lives.  Basically its an encouraging video which seems to aim to break down preconceptions which some people (and churches) may have about what church is and what form it takes.

Because I know that he has a megachurch background, though I know very little about what he has done since moving on from C3, it was good to see that he is actually teaching that church is far broader than that.  Also, I would expect that he is supportive of megachurches and the places he’s been and contributed to (I am assuming this is the case), but it was good to hear that he can see the risks are present in organisations which can lead to people being harmed in various ways.   Where people acknowledge this – and actually point it out – we can hope that maybe an awareness might develop which reduces the problem.

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RavingPente


Melodious Theological Dilemmus

November 16, 2009

From http://www.garagehymnal.com/resources/component/option,com_mojo/Itemid,45/cat,7/ :

Should we sing Hillsong songs?

In the January issue of The Briefing (Matthias Media, Issue 340) Ian Carmichael raises and answers a question which has been much discussed lately in Sydney evangelical churches – should we sing Hillsong songs?

To clarify, “we” refers to evangelical churches who agree with many of Hillsong’s beliefs, but disagree with some of their teaching and practices, particularly on points such as the prosperity doctrine and music as a form of sacrificial worship. The author gave three reasons against using Hillsongs:

1. When we sing their songs, we endorse a church whose teachings we disagree with;
2. When we sing their songs, we contribute financially to the propagation of “harmful teaching”; and
3. When we sing their songs, we compromise our theology (even if the lines look okay, there is usually a “pentecostal” way of understanding them which isn’t okay).

“Personally,” he concluded, “I think these three reasons are sufficient for us to place a blanket ban on Hillsong music in our churches. What do you think?” (Ian Carmichael, “Should we sing Hillsong songs?” The Briefing 340 (January 2007): 34)

As a band we have vigorous debate over what songs should we put on our CDs, and what songs we should lead congregations in singing when we play live. Yet it never occurred to us to place a blanket ban on songs from a particular publisher, any more than we would unquestionably accept songs from a particular source (not even Emu). The first time we came across this type of policy was when, in preparing for a gig at a small Anglican church, we were asked to remove three songs from our set because the host church had a policy of not singing any Hillsongs. Two of the songs they wanted removed weren’t actually from Hillsong, but the issue of the final song remained…what should we do? The issue is made more complex by the fact that Garage Hymnal has contributors who are evangelical but come from charismatic backgrounds, including some who attend Hillsong.

I agree there may be a point at which you might be wise to stop singing songs from a particular church, but where that point is and whether we have reached it with Hillsong is not as simple a question as Carmichael seems to suggest. Indeed I think the need for caution in making pronouncements over that church is recognised by the far more cautious article by Philip Percival in the same issue of The Briefing.

I want to add to the discussion a few questions which I don’t think have been adequately addressed by those making a case in favour of a ban.

(1) How far do we go? How “significant” do the differences in our theology have to be in order to justify a ban? We need some threshold – otherwise we would not be able to sing much; most hymns would be out for sure! Do the disagreements between evangelical churches themselves count as “significant”? If you support women preaching and I don’t, can I still sing the songs you write about calvary?

(2) Do we still have sisters and brothers at Hillsong? Have we really reached the point with Hillsong where we wouldn’t want even the royalties from a single overhead transparency going to support their ministry? Churches buy things from people they disagree with all the time (our church’s plumber has some strange views on predestination); for us to decide to positively make an effort to boycott, embargo and disassociate ourselves from any group of believers is a serious thing indeed. Isn’t this the type of action we reserve for churches who, after tearful exhortation and loving rebukes, walk away from the most central of gospel truths? The early church had huge disagreements over issues which everybody felt very strongly about (food sacrificed to idols comes to mind), and yet they were clear that they were still on the same team. Are there enough commonalities between our situation and the early church’s to require us to mirror their humility and grace? Are the real opponents of the gospel those who read the bible differently, or those who have stopped reading it at all?

(3)  Is a boycott really the wisest, most loving, most beneficial way of dealing with the situation? It is very hard to make people listen to you when you look for all the world like you are being prejudiced and unreasonable. And it is hard to not look prejudiced and unreasonable when you are refusing to sing any songs from a particular church regardless of what the songs themselves actually say. Normally when we think someone is in error we seek a way of dealing with them which engages with the issues in contention, and doesn’t burn our bridges too early. We seek to be clear on what we oppose, and just as importantly to affirm them when they do right – not blindly oppose them either way. When we make it personal, and refuse to have anything to do with them regardless of what they say, there can be no hope of change. We just look arrogant and unreasonable, and they are therefore never challenged. Let’s not forget that Hillsong Publishing covers a lot of different songwriters, many of whom have far more evangelical beliefs than their senior pastors. Their influence over the Hillsong movement is considerable, and is only bolstered by their music’s success.

(4) More generally, should our acceptance of songs (or anything else: books, ideas, arguments etc) rest on their institutional source, or on how their content measures up to scripture? Should we teach our congregations to avoid material from certain sources, or teach them to discern the truth based on the bible?

(5) Are we being inconsistent when we don’t also ban songs from UK or USA Pentecostal churches? Is it just that we don’t know anything about them? Or does our own church’s unique situation and context rightly make a difference to how wise it is to have such a ban? I don’t know of any church which has gone through the hymn book and removed those written by people whose biographical data tells us held aberrant views (and there are a lot, trust me!).

Our response

I don’t claim to have the answers to these questions. I am not wise enough to know what is the right thing to do. But I don’t think those advocating a blanket ban have addressed these questions satisfactorily. For this reason, as you have probably guessed, for the moment I disagree with the idea of a blanket ban on songs from any source as much as I disagree with blanket acceptance from any source. Instead, let’s continue to do what we should have been doing all along; let’s carefully examine each song on its merits, discard the bad and mediocre, and use what we think is great.

That said, I think those who advocate a ban are mostly right – we do need to be more aware of the theological baggage that the songs we choose come with. I have written elsewhere about the need to be very thoughtful in the process of adopting songs. We should not just reject songs which contain wholesale heresy, but also those which are unhelpful in their language because they connote theological discourses we think are misleading, or just plain wrong (singing as sacrifice, church as temple, etc.). My next paper will take a look at some common questions raised by standard pentecostal songs which we often sing (including Carmichael’s example, “Shout to the Lord”).

(But what did we do about the church which did have the blanket ban? Well, we did the gig, and we just didn’t do that song.)


Bentley’s Book Bashing

November 14, 2009

Thanks Teddy for finding this.

The ‘Slaughtering Of The Sheep’ informs us of Todd Bentley’s recent activities:

Todd Bentley’s Book Signing

Todd Bentley posted a video blog from his recent book signing.  Watch as Bentley does a meet and greet with the fans and sells his products.  You’ll hear mention of Lakeland, and then later in the video, you’ll hear him say “Shika” and  and see one woman supposedly come under the influence of the spirit.

Afterwards, they cut to the MorningStar Harvest Fest, Worship and Warfare Conference, where a woman is supposedly prophesying, “God wants you to shine,” while the camera cuts to Todd Bentley.  I would say this is a very effective PR campaign to get the masses primed for the deception that Bentley is on a new mission from God and will be coming to a church or conference center near you!

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Click here to be taken to the video blog.

http://slaughteringthesheep.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/todd-bentleys-book-signing/


The Greatest Sin?

November 13, 2009

Well, I’ll be posting infrequently, but I saw this today (got up early) and it was too provocative a statement not to post up given that we’ve been talking a little about gender roles recently. Tori Amos, a performer coming to Sydney in concert soon, said this in the Sydney Morning Herald today:

“I’m attracted to the idea of what sin is and how it’s been defined for hundreds of years because, frankly, the patriarchal fathers have the power to define us and how women view their bodies, and the fact they have this power is the greatest sin, an abuse of their power,” Amos says.

Read the rest of the article here.

So, is the fact that certain powerful men have had this kind of power over women and how women view themselves, one of the greatest sins that has been perpetrated on the human race, especially given that we are about 50% women and possibly a much higher percentage within church groups?

Amos grew up being a minister’s daughter and is an undoubtedly intelligent person, in my view. Also, abuse of power is in my view one of the greatest sins, whatever form it takes. It’s the main cause of systemic trouble in churches, particularly when combined with an unacknowledged self interest in outcomes. (When the self interest is acknowledged, there is a chance that its effect is reduced.)

(Disclosure: I am a Tori Amos fan, especially her early work, and loved one of her concerts which I saw maybe 10 years back.)

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RavingPente