Crystal Clear Cathedrals

Ministry Watch

Ministry Watch is an organisation which rates Christian charities using a variety of measures including openness and transparency, due diligence integrity research, value and beliefs, efficiency and effectiveness, and finally, best practices. Their aim is to help us be good stewards, ensuring that our donations are not wasted or misappropriated, and that they are used efficiently.

Transparency

One of their measures, transparency, has a rating ranging from ‘A’ to ‘F’, where A is excellent, and F is dreadful (my words not theirs). Examples of organisations that get an ‘A’ for transparency include:

Cadence International (A)
Campus Crusade for Christ (A)
Crown Financial Ministries (A)
Kingsway Charities (A)
MAP International (A)
Navigators (A)
Officers’ Christian Fellowship (A)

Ones with an ‘F’ include:

Benny Hinn Ministries (F)
Breakthrough Ministries/ Rod Parsley (F)
Creflo Dollar Ministries (F)
Crystal Cathedral Ministries / Robert Schuller (F)
Ever Increasing Faith/ Fred Price (F)
Kenneth Copeland Ministries (F)
World-Wide Missions (F)

Ministry Watch explains how ministries are graded on their website, and looks like they offer a valuable service to those of us wanting to choose charities to donate to.

There are also other sites which grade charities, including secular ones to help donors make wise choices.

Relating To Churches…

I wonder what would happen if churches were graded along similar lines, since churches which accept tithes and offerings from their members are also responsible for a large quantity of Christian funding? Naturally churches have administrative costs which vary and aren’t supposed to give all the money to a charitable cause, so I’m not suggesting they should be graded in an identical way. Perhaps some or even many churches are transparent and expose their accounts to their membership, which would keep many people satisfied that donations were being handled responsibly.

On another related tack – if your church kept on inviting speakers from ‘F’ rated ministries to speak about money, what conclusion would you begin to draw?? Would you question your own church’s transparency as well, or would you just think they could exercise a bit more wisdom? Or does it not matter?

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RavingPente

The Creationism Debate

Christians hold a variety of positions on the Creation account, from a literal 7 day instantaneous creation version, to regarding the entire account as a myth with no veracity at all. People at both extremes still believe in Christ, and that God was the initial Creator. I’m not even going to try to cover the spectrum of views here.

This thread is a place for discussion on this vast topic to take place. It might be as long as the Calvinist thread.

Do you have a particular take on this issue as a Christian?

The only thing I ask is that we all respect one another’s positions on the subject, as we are all believers in Christ, regardless of what we believe about the Age of the Earth or related topics. It can be a very passionate subject – this is often where the love that we hope to demonstrate is tested. Hopefully, we will get some interesting stuff posted up here, regardless of what position people take.

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RavingPente

I Believe It, Therefore It’s True

From http://www.christianpost.com/article/20100603/most-christians-cannot-explain-their-faith-says-apologist/index.html :

Most Christians Cannot Explain their Faith, Says Apologist

By Edmond Chua|Christian Post Correspondent

The faith of most Christians, even that of many pastors, will not stand up to intellectual scrutiny, according to renowned apologist Josh McDowell.

Related

• Survey: Reasons Why Young Adults Quit Church
• Saving Youth from Church Exodus Not Enough, Says Youth Leader
• ‘Lost’ Christians Greatest Crisis in American Church, says Author

This is a concern because pastors’ inability to present biblical truth comprehensibly and relevantly has led to children from Christian families leaving the church, research has shown.

In the United States, the age at which nearly all such children leave church has decreased to 18 years.

Not even the children of many successful ministers are spared.

McDowell made his comments at a recent networking dinner among various men’s ministries organized recently by Men-in-Covenant. MiC is the men’s ministry of Covenant Evangelical Free Church.

He recalled speaking with the pastor of one of the largest U.S. churches, a man known for his expository preaching. Confiding in him, the pastor said their church was losing its youth right after high school graduation.

In his 50 years of ministry, McDowell has asked several thousand pastors and leaders how they could be certain Jesus Christ said “I am the truth” and not one of many truths or a truth.

“Not one person has ever given me an intelligent, biblically-based answer,” said the author of The New Evidence that Demands A Verdict.

During the past six years, he asked hundreds of Christians and leaders why they see themselves as Christians. Again no one gave him an “intelligent” answer.

In the past 17 years, he has asked over 4,000 pastors, leaders and parents why they believe the Bible is true.

A mere six “came close to giving an intelligent answer,” McDowell noted.

“If anything is based upon truth, it’s the Christian faith,” he said. “Christians who do not know why they have faith or believe have a very difficult time expressing themselves to others.

“The saddest thing is people come to me and say, ‘What’s the answer?’”

“I say, ‘There’s no answer… There are hundreds of answers.’”

Most Christians, even some pastors, don’t even know one. On the other hand, the apologist said he could give 50 reasons for his belief that the Bible is true.

Ninety-five percent of Christians gave disappointing responses when asked why they believe Jesus is the Son of God.

Asked why the Bible is true and historically reliable, Christians replied that it was what they had been taught by their church or parents.

A common response that most Christians gave to both questions was that it is “what I believe.”

McDowell responded: “That’s voodoo thinking. Where did we ever get that crazy idea that something is true just because we believe it?

“If that is true, then there will never be heresy. Everybody would be right.”

On one occasion, 13 youth pastors at a large convention were unable to reasonably answer the apologist’s question.

Finally one young person stood up, walked toward him and told him he knew the answer.

The young man promptly held up his Bible and said, “Because I believe it.”

And to McDowell’s dismay, all the youth pastors applauded him.

McDowell said, “Young man, do you know the difference between you, me and the majority of Christians in the world?

“To you, it is true because you believe it. For me, I believe it because it is true.”

Another response the apologist received was: Because I have faith.

He commented, “Where did we ever get the crazy idea that faith makes something true? That’s idiotic. That’s so unbiblical you can call it heresy.

“God doesn’t use faith to create truth. He uses truth through the Holy Spirit to create faith.”

Christians, the apologist stressed, are called to explain their faith when asked. They are set free by the faith in the truth, he expressed, referring to John 8:32.

Yet others say Christianity is true because Jesus changed their lives.

Even this will not stand up to intellectual scrutiny, McDowell argued.

“Lies change lives; cults change lives,” he said.

To make such an appeal is “not the essence of Christianity,” the author emphasized.

McDowell said: “We owe it to ourselves, we owe it to our children, we owe it to our neighbors, we owe it to the lost, to tell them not just what we believe but why do we believe it.”

C3 ‘Vision Builders’ Pamphlet for ‘Rise & Build’

C3, for their Rise and Build event, have released a publication called Vision Builders. I had to write this out because I am absent of a scanner or camera at the moment. I found this booklet quite revealing.

“VISION

Every year we jointly commit to the task of resourcing the vision that God has given us. When we work together in unity we can build something that enables God to reach the world and be reconciled to Him. We are convinced that giving to Vision Builders secures a strong and exciting future for our church. We have seen miracles unfold in people’s lives as they have aligned their heart, purpose and financial with God’s vision to build His Church. As we each give our time and resources, together we will see lives transformed, captives released, and eyes open to the reality of Christ.” (pg 3 of ‘Vision Builders’)

This statement has Phil Pringle’s signature to it with him and his wife’s name to it. These article articles are interesting too:

BUILDINGS

We believe in the church gathered, united with one voice, one heart and one goal. C3 church is a place where we call home, we create space and room for people to grow, worship and live their lives wholly for Christ. Our 3 campuses are where people gather, meet each other and meet God. Places where buildings overflow with people, where generations are inspired, equipped and empowered in our training programs, and beyond initiatives aid people locally and globally in their times of need. This is only the beginning.

We see our church community discovering a life that is the best it can be through providing more places where people can encounter God. There are stories waiting to be told and eyes waiting to be unveiled to the truth. We have a united vision to build the church by connecting people to God and connecting people to eachother… As we partner financially together we fuel the vision Sydney a City for Christ. We are bringing Jesus into contact with the one person. We are building the Church and we will see hundreds and thousands of lives changed. Let’s liberate a city and nation through the life-transforming Gospel of Jesus Christ by every available relevant means. (pg 7 of ‘Vision Builders’)

With a big flashy graphic taking up the booklet, the bottom half of the booklet on pg 8 had this scripture:

“David said, “My son Solomon is young and inexperienced, and the house that is to be built for the LORD shall be exceedingly magnificent, famous and glorious throughout all lands. Therefore now I will make preparation for it.” So David made ample preparations before his death. 2 Chronicles 22:5 NASB” (pg 8 of ‘Vision Builders’)

You can just imagine which words were expressed in bigger font to drive home what was being implied by that scripture. Next page was this title with this subheading:

“THE MEANS

Our vision is that every person is, no matter what their story, would give to God through the Vision Builders Program, holding nothing back, freely and generously, in worship of God. It’s not about equal giving but equal sacrifice.” (pg 9 of ‘Vision Builders’)

Following this is an article about ‘Beyond’. Then there was this article on the same page:

“YOUR BEST LIFE TELEVISION

Television is just that, it’s Tel-EVERYONE. We have a passion to reach the world through television and our television presence is extending to a greater reach than ever before. Our vision is to make a way for the message God has placed inside our hearts to reach into households and living rooms, to reach people exactly where they are at in life. Our TV ministry produces a world-class quality 30-minute weekly television show ‘Your Best Life with Phil Pringle’, which is broadcast through Australia, Asia, Europe and the UK weekly. People are watching more TV than ever before and we want to reach them with the message of Christ and point them towards their local C3 Church. When a show comes out of a local church it creates a context for people to get connected to a local church. Through broadcasting a church full of life, alive and bright, we show believers and unbelievers worldwide that God is alive, the church is alive and that He desires us to live our best life for His glory. Our desire is that people see, feel and touch God.” (pg 9 of ‘Vision Builders’)

Once again a nice big graphic fills the page spread and part of a whole page is filled with this only text:

Even though I am free of the demands and expectations of everyone, I have voluntarily become a servant to any and all in order to reach a wide range of people: religious, nonreligious, meticulous moralists, loose-living immoralists, the defeated, the demoralized—whoever. I didn’t take on their way of life. I kept my bearings in Christ—but I entered their world and tried to experience things from their point of view. I’ve become just about every sort of servant there is in my attempts to lead those I meet into a God-saved life. I did all this because of the Message. I didn’t just want to talk about it; I wanted to be in on it! 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 MESSAGE”

Finally – this booklet wouldn’t be a C3 booklet unless it talked about what it loves most:

How Can You Be A Part Of Vision Builders 2010?

Prayerfully consider the level of giving that you feel is appropriate for you. Your decision should be based on both faith and wisdom. Remember, the philosophy of Vision Builders is equal sacrifice, not equal giving.

Make a formal commitment to give on a Vision Builders commitment card during all weekend sevices throughout June 2010. Alternatively, you can obtain a commitment card at any time from the information desk in the church foyer.

SERVING CHOOSE YOUR METHOD OF FULFILLMENT

Regular Payment This is one of the most successful ways to fulfill your commitment by making a regular weekly or monthly contribution. Regular giving is rewarding and quickly builds as illustrated below.

TRUST FUNDS

Two Trust Funds that do not have tax deductibility status have been set up for those who do not need or wish to take advantage of the taxation benefits. Money given to these trusts will be used for expenditure beyond the purposes approved by the Australian Tax Office. The Trust Fund details are as follows:

• Oxford Falls and Silverwater Campuses

• ‘C3 Church Building Trust’
• ‘God In The City Rise And Build General’

• City Campus

Salary sacrifice You can arrange with your employer to make a deduction from your salary each pay before tax. Please contact the C3 Church Accounts Department to organise.

Direct Transfer This can be arranged through your employer or bank. Your bank can arrange regular transfers to occur automatically. You can also arrange regular payments via internet banking. Again, please contact the C3 Church Accounts Department to organise. Alternatively, you can choose to make a payment from money currently available or when you receive a work bonus, tax refund or via an asset sale.

Online Donation This is a popular and convenient way of giving via the Internet. Please visit our website at www.myc3church.net. Then use the ‘Online Giving’ link Complete the information required and select the ‘Vision Builders’ field and continue with ‘proceed’.

Taxation Benefits

All donations in excess of $2 given to C3 Vision Builders ABN. XX XXX XXX XXX are tax deductible. The real cost of your contribution can therefore be significantly less than the real amount donated as shown from the following table. A Tax Receipt will be issued soon after the end of the Financial Year.

The example below shows the possible Tax Benefit depending on income based on a donation of $1,000. (pg 11 of ‘Vision Builders’)

The following page continues talking about money. Please note what is said. This is what Phil Pringle teaches about finances from behind the pulpit, (regarding paying the tithe before paying bills):

Frequently Asked Questions

What Is The vision builders program?

The Vision Builders program is the overarching banner for our Rise & Build, Beyond, and Television Partners initiatives. Vision Builders is responsible for raising the finance needed to facilitate all of these areas of our Church life.

Are My vision builders contributions tax-deductible?

Contributions of $2 or more are tax deductible.

Can I give to vision builders instead of tithing?

The Bible instructs people to tithe the first 10% of income to the church – the ‘House of God’ for the operation of the church (Mal 3:10, Matt 23:23). Vision Builders giving should be seen as giving ‘over and above’ the tithe.

What if i can’t fulfil my pledge?

Firstly, we encourage people to make realistic pledges. Having done that, we understand that sometimes unexpected events happen and for whatever reason people are unable to fulfil their pledge. We release people from their commitments every year, but suggest that you may still want to fulfil your pledge by breaking it down into smaller amounts over a longer period of time.

I am in significant debt, should i pay off my debts or give to vision builders?

If you are in ‘out of control debt’, after your tithe the debt should be your next priority. Reducing the debt to a manageable amount (or even clearing it completely) should be done before significant commitments are made to Vision Builders.

Do You need my personal details? I wish to remain anonymous.

You may remain anonymous if you wish, however you will not be able to claim tax deductability for your giving as we will be unable to give you a record of your giving which you will need to submit to the Australian Tax Office.

How should i determine how much to give to vision builders?

A combination of Faith and Wisdom should be used in determining how much to give. Proverbs 24:3 “Any enterprise is built by wise planning, becomes strong through common sense, and profits wonderfully by keeping abreast of the facts” (TLB)

I am only new to church, should i be giving to vision builders? If so, why?

There is no pressure for anyone, new or old to give to Vision Builders, nor is there any minimum requirement. New people who would like to give are most welcome, as is anyone who resonates with the vision we have for Vision Builders.

How Do we know where the money goes?

Our financial accounts are audited by an independent accounting firm. We make available a summary every year of ‘where the money goes’ to any member of C3 Church who would like the information.

What if i am currently directly transferring money into the rise & build, television partners or beyond accounts?

We would advise that you discontinue with this giving and rearrange to directly transfer money into the Vision Builders Fund. Please contact the C3 Church Accounting Department who will provide the details to enable you to facilitate this.

What if i only want to give to a designated area?

Generally, we would encourage you to give into the Vision Builders Fund where the moneys will be allocated based on the current needs in the three areas. However, if you have a preferred area of giving, please indicate this on your commitment card. (pg 12 of ‘Vision Builders’)

In the following posts below I will express my views on this C3 document.

The Big Brother ‘Bother’ & The Big Sister ‘Twister’

End Times Prophetic says:

“Newsflash! Emerge Wale’s Dave Vaughan, a ‘New Ecstatic’ who hangs with the likes of ‘whacked out’ Benjamin Dunn and John Crowder on the fringes of the fringes of the unreal, fake and often loony charismatic church, has become a contestant on ‘reality’ TV. Tonight the self-proclaimed “Christian minister” became an official housemate of the last ever series of Big Brother in the UK.

Dave Vaughan went goofily into the Big Brother house clothed in his trademark monk’s habit and fake laugh.

This is not the first time Dave Vaughan has grabbed the headlines. For more on this attention-seeking fake, check out the Dave Vaughan archive of articles, covering him and some of his other buddies within the ‘New Ecstatics’.  - Jonathan”

http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/

Here is Dave Vaughan at Morning Star Ministries…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utyQLbtlv8U

And here’s the sloshfest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsyVGdnEcic

They worship experiences NOT God. Some other videos of the sloshfest are quite disturbing and remind me of pagan festivals.

And other new…

Some may already know this. But on the issue of EndTimesProphetic, I regret to inform everyone here about Miriam Franklin. I liked the amount of time, effort and research she went into exposing a lot of the dodginess of the Latter Rain movement and her involvement in speaking against the Lakeland saga. But I didn’t know she was stealing other websites information. I wasn’t a huge fan of her style of condemning others and ‘prophesying’ destruction on certain ministries. But it was nice to know her through email. She gave me good insight in what was happening in the UK and what was coming to Australia.

Looks like ‘Jonathan’ might be running the site now.

If  you want to know more about what she has done and what people are roasting her about – read here:

http://checkpoint.ie/roguesgallery.html

Test for Mrs Rosalind Miriam Franklin of Liskeard, Cornwall – aka ‘Miriam’ the self-styled end-times-prophetess – and
numerous other pseudonyms..

(Last Updated March 2010)

I personally regret having to construct this document, but in the face of unrelenting personal attacks, and the ongoing reticence / failure / inability of the UK justice system to take effective and timely action in protecting us from the ravages of this utterly duplicitous individual, I decided it was time to take matters in hand and state the facts as they are – with whatever evidence I can link to as we go.

It is practically impossible to keep up with the ever-ascending tiers of deception and guile that pours forth from this woman, so may I ask visitors to please check out the links provided and test the evidence for themselves – so there can be no more doubts as to this woman’s capacity for malice and deception.

The main point to note throughout is the callous and premeditated ‘projection’ of Rosalind Miriam Franklin’s own dark motives, methods, and character onto those she accuses, (this is a recognized psychological trait in the study of criminal psychology); and her prolific use of pseudonyms and other false identities to pursue amoral ends.

Please feel free to circulate or share this material with anyone who may benefit from its dissemination. Meanwhile, we wait.. and wait… and wait for the Courts to do what we have been waiting for the UK Justice System to do since 2006!

Important update Nov 2009: Mrs Franklin and her husband Nigel appear in Court in Torquay, and are found to be liable in two of the original cases. Several other cases are successfully brought in other jurisdictions, but because many are independent, the details are not readily available here.

March 2010 – Mrs Franklin launches a slew of defamatory websites designed to cause as much damage as possible to those of us who have exposed her. Three are immediately taken down by the host providers, but one or two remain online. Under various guises, Mrs Rosalind Miriam Franklin links into these wbpages in yet another contrived attempt to exact some sort of perverse revenge on her challengers. Due to repeated taunts and provocations to ‘debunk’ those lies, this ‘Truth Test’ document contains some updated additions in the boxes below, as well as an addendum headed ‘Websmear Facts’ which briefly summarises the lies and attempted deceptions there (please scroll to bottom of the document for the condensed rebuttal).

… Claims to be an ‘ethical, Christian’ businessperson

Mrs F has displayed that she is an unconscionable exploiter of people, and will stoopto any level of duplicity to achieve her questionable aims. Now proven to be a thief and a liar in UK Courts.

100-plus written complaints from ex-clients would suggest she is not a particularly ethical person – nor a sterling example of what most would consider ‘Christian’ behaviour. As of 2009, major publishing outlets are so enamoured by her ethics, that Mrs Franklin and her various ‘businesses’ are now officially blacklisted.

Makes many promises to authors on her website

Most are hollow ruses – designed primarily to generate consumer confidence, and help separate prospects from their money. 2020: Five false or misleading websites designed to defraud authors have now been shut down.

Mrs F also operates false-front websites with skewed and misleading commentaries from nonexistent ‘independent authors’ in order to draw authors to her publishing site, such as; selfpublishingnews.wordpress.com (taken down in May 2009) Note: Two screenshots on the Rogues Gallery website still exist as evidence, but Mrs F has somehow managed to block access to the archives, May 2009

States that ‘all royalties are being paid’, and ‘all work continues as normal’

Direct, premeditated lies I’m afraid – April 2009. Ex-authors report receiving a generic email to this effect – but no payments.. 2010: Based on sales figures for books that have been ‘recovered’ and republished by CheckPoint Press, it now seems that Mrs Rosalind Franklin has bilked tens of thousands of pounds out of unsuspecting authors.

Authors such as Max Brand featured on the Diggory website as the author of certain ‘new titles’ are deceased since 1944.. the front page displaying new titles remains unchanged since Jan 2008 http://www.diggorypress.com/

Claims she can publish your book for £30

Impossible unless the publisher subsidizes the cost..

Just one of many deceptive marketing ‘hooks’ to lure unsuspecting authors. Set-up fees and legal deposit copies even for print-ready files have to be paid for, for example..

Claimed that Diggory Press books sold 200 times higher than the average..

She has never substantiated this claim – which would be quite incredible if it were true – given that most Diggory / Exposure books fall well short of ‘professional’ publishing standards..

Another deceptive ruse designed to lure customers.. http://www.diggorypress.com/publish-with-diggory-press-i-1.html

Offered ‘editing services’ for a fee..

Her own spelling and grammar is regularly peppered with errors.. she has no editorial qualifications whatsoever – as many disappointed writers will testify

One of the give-aways to her many online identities are the repeated spelling errors on certain words..

Offered ‘marketing packages’ for fees of up to £2,000

These contrived ‘packages’ come more-or-less automatically with an ISBN; cost the publisher absolutely nothing; and are sold knowingly under a deliberate deception..

See ‘A Note of Caution’ here on the CheckPoint Press website: Warning to Authors Mrs Franklin has engaged in a premeditated act of fraud here, knowing it will cost the authors all the costs involved in printing, distributing,
hosting, and returning/recycling any unsold books. The POD publishing model simply doesn’t function in this respect..

Claims hundreds of satisfied authors..

Franklin wrote many of the endorsements herself

Screenshots of fabricated books when she first launched Diggory as a business in 2005-06 – pretending those books were ‘works-in-progress’..

Claims to be honest..

A close family relative of Mrs Franklin saw the article about the court cases in the Guardian Newspaper, and called the reporter advising that they too had been defrauded..!

We’re hoping this person will agree to be a material witness in Court..

Summer 2009 – maintains that Diggory Press / Exposure Publishing is ‘still in business’..

No ‘real’ business activity on the website for months, and a defrauded author who is pressing his case independently advises that Mrs Franklin has been officially ‘blacklisted’ by the major industry players..

Meanwhile, a ‘new’ company called Author’s Chance Ltd is mysteriously set up as the new owner of around 800 Diggory / Exposure titles. Mrs Franklin’s name appears nowhere on the new company records, but the named
director (Mr Michael Thomas Gordon) already holds 51 other directorships – most in dormant / offshore companies, and lives less than 10 miles from the original address of Meadow Books. For more information see Author’s Chance Ltd

Feb 2010

Diggory Press is gone from the internet – thank goodness!

All the major book industry people have been informed of the issues concerning Diggory / Exposure / Meadow / Authors Chance etc.. So no excuse if they keep trading with them. …”

From http://checkpoint.ie/Truth%20Test%20for%20Mrs%20Rosalind%20Miriam%20Franklin%20of%20Liskeard.pdf

Grace Is Sweet Until Sung By A Wretch

Make sure you sing along now…

S&P

The World Will Judge What The Church Wont

I am quite surprised to see that the more the church refuses to stand for truth, the world will start telling the world what it sees wrong with it. The world does not want to see prosperity preachers and false tithe doctrines.

C3′s Rise and Build is coming up. Wait til you hear what they’re encouraging the congregation to do with their ‘tithing’, their ‘rise and build money’ and ‘first fruits offering’. The above video above was timely emailed to me. So was the one below.

Pringle gets me worked up with his filthy lucre messages. But I am happy to see that more of my friends are turning their backs on the false tithe doctrines and are seeing the light for the first time. C3 Connect groups are actually doing bible studies on these doctrines. Adults and young adults are sharing what they are finding in the bible about tithing. It’s nice to know that these anti-tithers are giving anti-tithe materials to others in connect groups who don’t go to C3 but to Anglican, Baptist or Uniting churches.

Please keep C3 in your prayers so that more people may come out of these deceptive teachings. Those who’s eyes are now opened weren’t devastated by these doctrines as badly as others I have met. While Phil Pringle gets me angry with his abusive doctrines, his extremities are making people see and sense something else take place.

Various people are now going to the scriptures themselves to find out what the bible truly says about the tithe. Don’t limit your prayers to C3 either. Pray for any church that you came from or any church that is on your heart to be freed from these damaging doctrines. If compassion comes upon you for a person or a church – know that the heart of God in you is groaning to see our brothers and sisters in Christ set free. I encourage you to act on these unexplainable thoughts and feelings and take this to God in prayer.

We are both kings and high priests beside Christ – our great King and High Priest. While Jesus intercedes for us, He gives ALL believers this gift and ministry as well. We too can also intercede for those He loves, like His son. By His Spirit we are led and pray for those he places on our hearts. By His Spirit He keeps us and others accountable. By His Spirit we are judged, but also given the ministry of reconciliation.

I am aware that I have been swinging pretty extreme sometimes with my comments and have been fighting with myself how I could change my conduct if that is what God is telling me to do.

It’s nice God gave me a vision of a class room setting where students were learning lot but not liking their teacher. The lesson behind the vision being that if you’re not nice or pleasant, you’re not abusing the gift God gives you. Using the gift to abuse others with is. Being nice is a bonus. (BTW. This vision was not about my relation with the Signpost02 community, but with my relations in general).

There has been a fine line in Penteland to exaggerate events which, I must admit, I have done on here. Not often. In fact it has been rare. I just have been mindful of it.

So I felt God convict me of that. I simply encourage people to test what I say and write, just like any other blogger or pastor. I will do my best to report what I see, here and do. I suppose now is a chance to make any comment about how you feel toward me and my conduct on Signposts02. I will take note.

Consider the speck. Consider the plank.

S&P

Please Obey Crowder – Rebuke and Reject Him

Ways of hearing from God

An interesting tangent that we haven’t discussed here before came up on ‘The Ministry Mole is Back!’ thread, regarding writing as a means of knowing that we hear from God. Here is S&P’s comment:

…Try journalling. Write out questions you want to ask Him and if you feel like an answer has come – don’t withhold the pen. Keep writing.

Through scribing, I managed to hear and see His voice in the responses I wrote. I actually picked up a sheet of my writing with him two years ago. In what I believed I was writing that came from Him, I knew without a doubt it was.

What he spoke to me about what was going to happen in the following years, came absolutely true. I wrote His words and everything came true – each detail was incredibly accurate. It wasn’t vague.

I was asking what I was doing with my life and I didn’t see what He said until I rediscovered this prophecy.

It actually scared me.

What I am saying is that it is possible for all believers to hear from God. We’ve somehow convinced ourselves that we can’t and only the person preaching or those with obvious spiritual gifts can.

God speaks to us through our emotions, mind and spirit. Don’t believe me? Paul talks about our spirits with God’s Spirit groaning. Paul, also in an emotional letter to the Galatians wrote ‘in the Spirit’. The arguments, questions, rhetoric, satire and reason he also put forth in his letters, is ‘of the Spirit’…

Teddy responded:

Automatic writing is very much a new age channeling method – sorry, but I wouldn’t touch that stuff with a 10 foot pole.

S&P replied that he stopped once he was sure he could hear from God.

My own response is in the comment below – basically I wouldn’t touch automatic writing with a barge pole either, but journalling has had great value in my life at times in the assurance its given me over time that God hears my prayers, and that I hear from Him. Journalling is also great because it can show how God communicates with us at times in ways which we think are ordinary and forget about, but when you look back over the big picture, you can see what He has done. At other times, its proof you’ve really heard from God when you record a response that you ‘heard’ in some fashion, which is later confirmed by events. In that situation it can be tempting to doubt that you really did hear prior to events playing out, but the written testimony is there as personal evidence.

Can we use some kinds of things that are associated with the New Age as ways of learning about our own relationship with God? Has anyone got any examples where something that seems New Age is helpful in another context?

Are there any particular ways in which people here hear from God?