If we put aside for one moment any theological issues with TD Jakes and consider the deeper issue of God’s protection of his children then this is a very interesting video.
Have you ever had any moments in your life where you headed the prompting of the still small voice and avoided danger?
What are the implications of this video or the theology that suggests that God does intervene in individual circumstances? Why did God protect TD Jakes and not all the people who died in the twin towers of the World Trade Center or the people of Rwanda or any of the thousands of other situations where he could have intervened. The age old question that never really gets an adequate answer.
Online Writing Is/Isn’t Making Students Better Writers
The Chronicle of Higher Education recently wrote about a number of studies attempting to determine if online writing (blogs, Twitter, etc.) are helping students become better writers.
The experts are divided, many saying that the short, abbreviated style of online writing is preventing students from learning the skills to construct more complex academic arguments.
Other experts say that the benefit of online writing is that it gives writers the opportunity to write with an immediate audience in mind, and help them think about how to be clear and efficient, and connect with those they’re writing for.
Its the last sentence of the article, quoting Professor Deborah Brandt, that interested me most:
But that view [that students' reading levels will decline because they write more than they read] … is being challenged by the literacy of young people, which is being developed primarily by their writing. They’re going to be reading, but they’re going to be reading to write, and not to be shaped by what they read.
I wonder what effects this shift in learning is already having on the Church. How often are we processing what we’re learning through the lens of “how am I going to communicate this to others?” Personally, I know I find myself reading articles online, or listening to lectures thinking about whether or not it would make for a good blog post.
Is this a good thing? On one hand, studies have shown that we retain information at a much higher rate if we are actively teaching that information to others. On the other hand, when do our personal learning experiences (specifically about spiritual things) need to be just that – personal?
If we’re always wondering what it means for somebody else, are we spending enough time thinking about what it means for us?
In PlainSite.org Note: I read this piece a long time ago, and saved it without noting the source. However it is way too good not to be used here. Therefore with apologies to the author..
Recently, I was watching a TV “ministry” (hucksters) who were urging people to send them money and they were guaranteeing a 100 fold return on the seed-faith money. Well, if I took them at their word and started with “sowing” $10 a week, I should start expecting to receive a $1000 a week in return. If after that I gave 10 percent of the $1000 ($100) I received per week, I could then expect to receive $100,000 per week. If after that I gave 10 percent of the $100,000 ($10,000) per week, I could then expect to receive $10, 000, 000 per week. In nine weeks I would be richer than Bill Gates (net worth ~ $30 billion) who is an atheist and does not give anything to the Lord’s work. The following table summarizes the results:
If instead I gave this amount once a year, I still would be the richest man in the world in ten years. If this is really what Jesus meant, then why do these “ministers” have to ask for money at all? Could not they apply the same principles and reap the money themselves?
Sound Ridiculous? Sure it is! But no more so than the extravagant promises made day in and day out by the hucksters on televisions
Just finished talking to some random American’s about a dodgy minister called ‘Mark Chironna’. He is part of Peter Wagner’s NAR. M’Kayla wrote:
Mark Chironna another pea in the pod of poo
I don’t know much about Mark Chironna. Only that he partnered and pal’d around with Kim Clement a few years back. He’s been around for a long time but I grew interested in him when some of his teaching was brought to my attention -
At Chironna’s website we find what could only be the end result of a mastered mix of psychology, psychic beliefs and the bible. I say “mastered” because as you read his stuff the thinking is hmmmm…that sounds right. But, ahh, remember, discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong, but right and ALMOST right per our friend gone before us- Charles Spurgeon. Mark’s teaching is just like the false prophetic as life becomes all about ME, who I am, who I was created to be; destiny in the making. Mark takes this one step further as he gives out a process in how to make that happen. But the word of our God says nothing like this. It is all about Jesus Christ and our lives are to mirror His image, not one of our own making. (We) put on the new man who is renewed in the knowledge according to the image of Him who created him. Colossians 3:10.
Mark may speak against new age heretics, but his teaching and explanation of the word shows him to be another pea in the pod of poo. He calls himself a “bishop”, a PhD-er, appears to be a very well paid “life coach” and is part of Peter Wagner’s New Apostolic Reformation which makes him another very dangerously deceived false apostle building a kingdom of his own. This makes him part of the “speak it into existence” crowd, more commonly known as the word of faith.
This video from BarnumandBentley shows Chironna’s connection with psychic and new age websites as he peddles his wares. Pardon, but there’s a snappy tune with the video. I kinda like it.
I began to do the research late this morning and found other sites who were putting up warnings against Mark. I read that he is to be the host on TBN tonight, although I cannot confirm it on their site, not sure why. So, since there seems to be a sudden interest on the web, God may be trying to tell us, or better Mark’s followers, the truth.
Again, I am reminded of this scripture, which seems to have been the bedrock for me in my search for the truth – Colosssians 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.
Philosophy and psychology are man made truths, and in themselves have nothing to do with God. To mix these ideas and fantasies with the word of God is to corrupt the true meaning of salvation. We are nothing without redemption for God gives us all that we need from His word.
If you are a follower of Mark’s, please take the time to compare his teachings with what the bible says. They are not the same teachings.
“GOD TV is so original, cutting edge, high quality, and appeals to a modern generation that there is no substitute. I have not seen any other Christian channel link millions of Christians around the world through LIVE programming.” – Anna May.
“Now I’ve learned that DIRECTV plans to cancel GOD TV, I will likely end up switching back to Comcast or another service provider in my area. Actually I will follow GOD TV to whichever provider they go as that is the channel most often on in my home.” – Lynn.
“I told the person at DIRECTV that I keep GOD TV on at my house all day most days. I feel that GOD TV is an essential member of my family; I can’t and won’t do without its daily influence in my life.” – Judy.
“I wrote the following to DIRECTV “I would like to express my deep sorrow in your choice to discontinue GOD TV in your programming. I only watch GOD TV and the weather channel. I have also had many friends and family members change from Dish Network solely because you carry GOD TV. We will make the necessary changes so we can continue watching GOD TV.” – Jeanne.
“I just sent an email to DIRECTV and stated how appreciative we have been to view GOD TV on DIRECTV. We have been avid followers and givers to GOD Channel for the past year, but have been faithfully watching GOD Channel since the Lakeland Revival began. We have grown so much since we started watching and praise God for your ministry. You are awesome and thank God for you!” – Jim & Gerrianne.
“I wanted you to know, I have called DIRECTV to urge them to keep GOD TV in their lineup. if DIRECTV no longer carries GOD TV, I will no longer subscribe to DIRECTV, I will take my business elsewhere and will tell all my friends to do the same. I would do this because GOD TV is so important to me and so many others.
I continue to pray for you and all the GOD TV family…. I trust the Lord in this matter. Many blessings to you for all you are doing for the Kingdom of God!” – Vickie.
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“I will continue to pray that we see breakthrough over this and that the Gospel and truth will continue to be preached and shared via God TV to the nations. Thank you for your faithfulness and obedience to continuing to pushing through with God TV, despite of the attacks from the enemy where finances are concerned and now trying to take you off the air.” – Fabiola.
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“My husband and I do pray that they will change their minds. We do so value and enjoy the programming that GOD TV puts together.” – Joanie and Michael.
“I urge this company to NOT remove GOD TV from my daily programming. I watch it every day. I’m deeply spiritual because of this channel, and if it gets discontinued then I’m forced as a Direct TV customer to cancel my subscription and get another company.” – Monica.
“You don’t understand, GOD TV is the only channel that brings the live Christian conferences broadcast on the air, yes we have many traditional christian broadcast on the air, but much like other genres, GOD TV is the only Spirit Filled genre available… You yourself may understand as through different denominations, very similar, one size doesn’t fit all… I am extremely upset you are not renewing their agreement. If Direct TV chooses not to renew, I will be looking at other options for our family… No one likes to be threatened… Which is not my intent… I simply have stayed with Direct because I could get GOD TV broadcast… And I am not the only one… Please reconsider.” – Eva.
“I am a subscriber to DirecTV only because of GOD TV. I called and they tried to convince me that there are other similar channels. I told them that they are misinformed; comparing GOD TV to the other Christian channels is like comparing apples to oranges. I will cancel my subscription. Unfortunately that is my only access to you!! I only watch one channel on TV. I pray that God will make a way. GOD TV is SO important in my life.” – Donna.
“I told Direct TV customer representative that I and many of friends subscribe to Direct TV for one reason, that is because they televise God TV program. If they discontinue showing God TV programming, many of us will cancel our subscription. I will continue to pray for Supernatural Favor with DirecTV.” – Mary Lee.
“I can’t imagine not having GOD TV, we will keep praying. The United States desperately needs GOD TV right now. Thank you so much for all that you do, God will take care of this matter so I will still have GOD TV and the Word of God will continue to be preached in the U.S.” – Jeff.
“I am writing you because I do hate to see you removed from directv channel offering as you are definitely different from the many they now offer. May the LORD bless you and strengthen you in your courage and perseverance” – Richard.
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“My wife and I are praying as well that what the enemy planned for evil, God would turn it to an advantage for the Kingdom. May God pour out Blessings on you and GOD TV.” – David.
“No one offers programming like you. I am fervently praying that God will break through. I can’t help but see this as another attack of the enemy on Kingdom advancing organizations who are effectively reaching the nations for Christ. I pray for divine wisdom for you as you lean into God to hear His voice through this situation and I pray that God will be glorified as you continue to serve Him!! Thank you for your ministry!” – Stacy.
“I emailed Direct TV immediately and was not very happy with their response. I did tell them I only have Direct TV because of GODTV. My sincere prayers are with you.” – Tina.
“Yes, I am quite upset that DIRECTV is dropping GOD TV, I am telling all my friends and church family and I am sure a lot will drop direct TV cause a lot of us dropped dish and cable and got direct due to GOD TV. So I hope upper management will look at all of this.” – Susan.
Churches in Australia went through the same fad where young Guy Sebastian (Australian Idol) and Christopher Egan (Home and Away) helped popularise “cool Christianity” down under from 2005 onwards. I saw that heading towards disaster fast if mega-churches were keen to go down that road. But for the church today, how can we make church ‘real’ for people of all ages?
‘How can we stop the oil gusher?” may have been the question of the summer for most Americans. Yet for many evangelical pastors and leaders, the leaking well is nothing compared to the threat posed by an ongoing gusher of a different sort: Young people pouring out of their churches, never to return.
As a 27-year-old evangelical myself, I understand the concern. My peers, many of whom grew up in the church, are losing interest in the Christian establishment.
Recent statistics have shown an increasing exodus of young people from churches, especially after they leave home and live on their own. In a 2007 study, Lifeway Research determined that 70% of young Protestant adults between 18-22 stop attending church regularly.
Statistics like these have created something of a mania in recent years, as baby-boomer evangelical leaders frantically assess what they have done wrong (why didn’t megachurches work to attract youth in the long term?) and scramble to figure out a plan to keep young members engaged in the life of the church.
Increasingly, the “plan” has taken the form of a total image overhaul, where efforts are made to rebrand Christianity as hip, countercultural, relevant. As a result, in the early 2000s, we got something called “the emerging church”—a sort of postmodern stab at an evangelical reform movement. Perhaps because it was too “let’s rethink everything” radical, it fizzled quickly. But the impulse behind it—to rehabilitate Christianity’s image and make it “cool”—remains.
There are various ways that churches attempt to be cool. For some, it means trying to seem more culturally savvy. The pastor quotes Stephen Colbert or references Lady Gaga during his sermon, or a church sponsors a screening of the R-rated “No Country For Old Men.” For others, the emphasis is on looking cool, perhaps by giving the pastor a metrosexual makeover, with skinny jeans and an $80 haircut, or by insisting on trendy eco-friendly paper and helvetica-only fonts on all printed materials. Then there is the option of holding a worship service in a bar or nightclub (as is the case for L.A.’s Mosaic church, whose downtown location meets at a nightspot called Club Mayan).
“Wannabe cool” Christianity also manifests itself as an obsession with being on the technological cutting edge. Churches like Central Christian in Las Vegas and Liquid Church in New Brunswick, N.J., for example, have online church services where people can have a worship experience at an “iCampus.” Many other churches now encourage texting, Twitter and iPhone interaction with the pastor during their services.
But one of the most popular—and arguably most unseemly—methods of making Christianity hip is to make it shocking. What better way to appeal to younger generations than to push the envelope and go where no fundamentalist has gone before?
Sex is a popular shock tactic. Evangelical-authored books like “Sex God” (by Rob Bell) and “Real Sex” (by Lauren Winner) are par for the course these days. At the same time, many churches are finding creative ways to use sex-themed marketing gimmicks to lure people into church.
Oak Leaf Church in Cartersville, Georgia, created a website called yourgreatsexlife.com to pique the interest of young seekers. Flamingo Road Church in Florida created an online, anonymous confessional (IveScrewedUp.com), and had a web series called MyNakedPastor.com, which featured a 24/7 webcam showing five weeks in the life of the pastor, Troy Gramling. Then there is Mark Driscoll at Seattle’s Mars Hill Church—who posts Q&A videos online, from services where he answers questions from people in church, on topics such as “Biblical Oral Sex” and “Pleasuring Your Spouse.”
But are these gimmicks really going to bring young people back to church? Is this what people really come to church for? Maybe sex sermons and indie- rock worship music do help in getting people in the door, and maybe even in winning new converts. But what sort of Christianity are they being converted to?
In his book, “The Courage to Be Protestant,” David Wells writes:”The born-again, marketing church has calculated that unless it makes deep, serious cultural adaptations, it will go out of business, especially with the younger generations. What it has not considered carefully enough is that it may well be putting itself out of business with God.
“And the further irony,” he adds, “is that the younger generations who are less impressed by whiz-bang technology, who often see through what is slick and glitzy, and who have been on the receiving end of enough marketing to nauseate them, are as likely to walk away from these oh-so-relevant churches as to walk into them.”
If the evangelical Christian leadership thinks that “cool Christianity” is a sustainable path forward, they are severely mistaken. As a twentysomething, I can say with confidence that when it comes to church, we don’t want cool as much as we want real.
If we are interested in Christianity in any sort of serious way, it is not because it’s easy or trendy or popular. It’s because Jesus himself is appealing, and what he says rings true. It’s because the world we inhabit is utterly phony, ephemeral, narcissistic, image-obsessed and sex-drenched—and we want an alternative. It’s not because we want more of the same.
Corrections & Amplifications
Pastor Mark Driscoll at Seattle’s Mars Hill Church has talked about sexual topics in church services but says he has not delivered sermons with sex-themed titles. An earlier version of this column mistakenly used the word sermon. Mr. McCracken’s book, “Hipster Christianity: Where Church and Cool Collide” (Baker Books) was published this month.
To even a casual outside observer it would appear that the latest fad to sweep through the Christian church centers around Leadership. One may argue that this insatiable lust for leadership principles borders on idoltry. Here’s just a sampling of this year’s “Christian” Leadership conferences. Ironically, the “leadership model” taught at these conferences is not the servant leadership that Jesus modeled and taught (John 13:1-11). Instead, these conferences teach the exact same leadership model used by Fortune 500 Corporate CEOs and businesses. This Wall street business model is a top down, vision casting, innovation requiring, absolute loyalty insisting, accountability dodging, and obedience demanding leadership model. This is also the leadership model used by corrupt kings, Popes, Caesars and narcissistic empire builders. Hmmmm.
Too bad the pastors who attend and put on these conferences don’t focus as much energy on rightly handling God’d word and preaching and proclaiming Christ-Centered and Cross-Focused sound doctrine. In fact, many of them are experts in leadership and utter neophytes and nincompoops when it comes to properly teaching the scriptures.
And good example for Chris Rosborough would be Kong Hee.
It is quite clear that Kong Hee (plagiarizing thief and professional hypocrite), is often wayward in his teachings. It is clear he worships leadership. Since I heard that Pringle was getting Kong Hee at the Presence Conference, I looked him up on Google and had started following CheatGrace’s blog since it basically started. Didn’t know what to think until I saw that media were starting to expose him.
(See links here looking into Kong Hee’s plagiarism:
In this video, Kong Hee is talking to ALL of the C3 College Students including staff AND Phil and Chris Pringle. It’s interesting to verify if Kong Hee actually spoke at the Fortune 500 event. This sounds like a lie. (Why would the 500 Club have anything to do with him?)
His leadership teaching methods are full of fault anyways. His focus on CEO leadership and his unpractical teachings and dodgy theology should be a major concern to C3 students. Below is also a transcript on all his leadership idolatry in his talk to C3 College:
“You know, what God uses to impress a pagan world is really the quality of life, the standard of living that we have. Because when all is said and done- now that you have become a Christian, how much better is your life as compared to those outside the four walls of the church? And I love what Dr Phil is trying to bring throughout the whole movement and to all his friends around the world, that our job is to give all our members the ‘best life now’.”– Kong Hee, Pastor Kong Hee @ C3 College Opening Feb 2009 Part 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkldfgf6cDs: (01:43), C3 Oxford Falls, C3 College Lecture, 19/01/09
“So God is saying this [On Deut 4:4]: ‘The Laws of God are so incredible, so complete, so well thought out, if you as a people will follow them, then the world is gonna get envious of you. You will be a lender and not a borrower. In other words, you are going to be successful, you are going to be the head and not the tail, you are going to be wealthy and prosperous. And the truth is, the world will only get impressed by God when they see our wisdom in handling our finances.”– Kong Hee, Pastor Kong Hee @ C3 College Opening Feb 2009 Part 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkldfgf6cDs: (04:06), C3 Oxford Falls, C3 College Lecture, 19/01/09
“Now when I started working after I graduated from university, there was a nineteen eighty eight- a nineteen eighty six to nineteen eighty eight, I was in a uni doing my computer science. And I basically, pretty much supported myself, through school. So in nineteen eighty six, while I was in a university, I was working, you know as a –in a part time job.
My pay at that point in time, (I believe I shared this before over here, but anything worth listening, is worth listening twice, ha-ha!), I was paid in nineteen eighty six… I was paid six Singapore dollars… [Writes amount on blackboard] per hour. That’s nineteen eighty six! I was working at a desktop computer publishing company. I was a trainee computer scientist, $6 an hour! Now twelve years – uh- fourteen years later, in the year two thousand, by now I’m pastoring a church, (in the year two thousand we have about seven thousand members), I was invited to go to America to speak to a group of five hundred CEO’s and top executives and many of them from the Fortune 500 companies. The reason they invited me was because they wanted to know, ‘How do you as a non-profit leader, as a non-profit CEO, manage to motivate volunteers for the cost of your vision?’
Because you know the truth is that people in the world, they- I mean the CEO’s of the world, they pay money for people to serve. Yet we give people a vision. They serve free of charge. So they want to know how that we do it. So here I was in a little room. They flew me, my new first class, return ticket, put me in the Suid Hiad [spelling?] Hotel… They put me in top class accommodation, gave me the best meals available, and I was asked only to speak for3o minutes. I flew all the way to the United States for the thirty minutes. That was all the time they had given for me to speak. And after I’d finished speaking I thought, “Now that’s great!”. I was about to leave. The organizer came. And slipped a check into my hand. And it was US $5000 for hat half hour. [Writes amount on blackboard next to $6]
All right! Big question right? Same guy. Two eyes, one nose, one mouth, two hands, two feet. I have the- this same person twelve years to fourteen years before. You know I was given the same amount of time. It’s still twenty four hours a day. Things have not changed. Everything remained constant. BUT! What happened? [Refers to blackboard figures]
My pay for half an hour, $5000 US dollars was way, way ahead of the $6 per hour at Singapore I received fourteen years earlier. You see the only thing that has changed [Refers to blackboard figures] is that my value has increased. My value to my listeners, to the people I’m serving, has increased. Now as I increase in my personal value, I increase in my personal worth to the community, to the church, to the people I am trying to help and change. Now what has really transpired in the fourteen years?”– Kong Hee, Pastor Kong Hee @ C3 College Opening Feb 2009 Part 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkldfgf6cDs: (00:00), C3 Oxford Falls, C3 College Lecture, 19/01/09
“So as I increase in my knowledge, in my training and education, I increase in my value in my worth to society that I’m trying to penetrate.”– Kong Hee, Pastor Kong Hee @ C3 College Opening Feb 2009 Part 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkldfgf6cDs: (04:16), C3 Oxford Falls, C3 College Lecture, 19/01/09
“Training, education are these: vital. In fact 2Corinthians 3:18 says, ‘When you look at the mirror of God’s Word, and you study it by faith’, and that’s the time the Holy Spirit is going to come and change you from glory to glory in the image of Him. The word ‘glory’ means from ‘value’ to ‘value’. This year, when you come to Bible School, you’ve got to have faith. Your value to this church, your value to this movement, your value to your company, to your business, to your community you are serving, is going to change. Your quality of life is going to go up to a whole new level. Come on! Give the Lord a big clap!”– Kong Hee, Pastor Kong Hee @ C3 College Opening Feb 2009 Part 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkldfgf6cDs: (05:14), C3 Oxford Falls, C3 College Lecture, 19/01/09
“This is the mission of the church: we want to give the world a taste of this colourful, progressive, creative God and let them know what He has intended for mankind from the very beginning. Remember, if Adam had not sinned, God would have continued to reveal Himself as Elohim. Adam would continue to be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it UNTIL he had total dominion of the whole world, for the glory of God.
But when we begin to live in this [refers to blackboard] level of shallow, sheltered Christianity, [ridicules in pathetic voice], “Oh save me Jesus! Provide for me Jesus! Heal me Jesus! Deliver me! Oh Jesus! Help me! Help me! Help me!” You know- low level Christianity, you become passive, constantly at the mercy of situation, of the economics condition, of the problems and of people.
Your pastor, doctor Phil Pringle and people like me, we are trying to change that in our generation. We want to raise up a new generation [refers to board] of people. Instead of saying, “Save me Jesus!”, we are saying, “Touch me Jesus! Fill me Jesus! Give me a visions and dream Jesus! Let me have your creativity to go there and be an [students and C3 staff and leaders applause] overcomer, problem solver- [1:13 shot of Josh Kelsey & Wife] oh come and give the Lord a big clap! I want to change the society for Christ hallelujah!”– Kong Hee, Pastor Kong Hee @ C3 College Opening Feb 2009 Part 4, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlCRLlLcLSE: (00:00-1:20), C3 Oxford Falls, C3 College Lecture, 19/01/09
“I want to become more and more like Jesus my Lord, my Saviour. And the way we do that is through discipleship. So I get myself disciple by great men like doctor Phil Pringle, constantly speaking into my life.”– Kong Hee, Pastor Kong Hee @ C3 College Opening Feb 2009 Part 5, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYncQHuZnqA: (01:32), C3 Oxford Falls, C3 College Lecture, 19/01/09
“Your success depends on your relationships. In fact, any top CEO will tell you that the root to upward mobility is how you relate to people- your people skills. If you are awkward with people, if you are unable to get along with others, you’ll never come to the higher echelon of leadership. But there’s another reason why relationship is so vital: your character depends upon it. You see the bible says who we spend our time with shape us. How are you going to end up after?- By the end of this year, by the end of the Bible School term will be determined by the thoughts you allow into your mind and the friends you hang out with. That is why I want to hang out around people of faith like Doctor Phil. I mean, you can’t spend a day with him without getting inspired. You can’t spend a day with him without [01:00 shot of Phil and Chris Pringle] thinking bigger, desiring to do greater things for God.
So I hang around people of faith every single week. The church service that you come to is a place to motivate and inspire you. But every time you go for your connect groups, you go for your small groups, is a smaller setting, to build long lasting relationships, where you become successful, happy, your character is changed and you become a balanced believer.” – Kong Hee, Pastor Kong Hee @ C3 College Opening Feb 2009 Part 5, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TadW8ZUYtEE: (0:11), C3 Oxford Falls, C3 College Lecture, 19/01/09
I took these quotes from Kong Hee because he kept associating church leadership with CEO Leadership.
What is biblical leadership?How should it combat false leadership? Should it combat false leadership?
If I asked you “what is the biggest and most frequent Sin in churches around the world today?” what would be your answer?
Some might say “greed” or “adultery” (husband/wife) or even “spiritual adultery” (God/other things).
I think the problems in churches are caused by many things including what I have listed. However the root “sin” that produces all these things is “spiritual pride”
Here is an example … “I tithe my gross income!” (look what a good boy I am.)
“I don’t tithe … I give cheerfully” (sola scriptura, look what a good boy I am!)
Both positions have led to pride and self-righteousness. There is no humility at all. Passion for Jesus really comes from a realisation of what he has done and how we have been given a second chance. The trouble is, the longer we are believers the more this passion fades away. Bible knowledge can restore the passion, but it can also lead to pride and self-righteousness.
Whether or not spiritual pride is the biggest sin, it’s definitely a problem. As Bull pointed out, there is no group that is immune to it. All of us will suffer from it or be tempted to succumb to it in some way or other, at some time. Spiritual pride probably causes more division in the body of Christ at large than anything else, and prevents us from hearing one another, when we want to be right more than we want truth. It causes some to side with the powerful, to be right by association, while others are rejected because they don’t fit. There is pride in right theology, pride in the most amazing experiences, pride in the music, pride in the good looking crowd, pride in the building. Yet none of these things on their own are necessarily bad until the pride seeps in. Even ODM’s (thanks for the acronym, Teddy!) can fall victims to pride. It undoes us all.
How do we abide in Christ when we are proud? Does this kind of thing kill people’s genuine passion? If all the externals were taken away, and there was no-one to compare anything with, and just Christ left, would the passion remain?
Dwelling on the person of Christ seems to be the answer to me. Not necessarily perfect worship, theology or anything else, or even doing anything of note. Though all those things have value. Just experiencing the Person He is, revealed through scripture. The stark contrast between Jesus and the rest of the world. When we look at things like pride and its effects, and then look back at Him. Light in the darkness. He is wonderful, and that brings me both joy and passion.
Posted by Greg the explorer 
Just finished talking to some random American’s about a dodgy minister called ‘Mark Chironna’. He is part of Peter Wagner’s NAR. M’Kayla wrote:
Teddy put this link up on a previous thread.
First, from the Museum of Idolatry (Thanks Teddy!). Rosborough posts 
