It all started in 1994 when he was given a permanent banning by ASIC for theft and deception of A$5000 from a parishioner in his church, by offering her financial advise without a license from ASIC and pocketing the A$5000 for his own personal gain. (ADMIN: edited)
(ADMIN Edited … unconfirmed allegation removed. )
He was involved with H$ in OZ, attends their conferences and when he moved to London joined H$ UK, he was treated as VIP, and would always get the VIP seats on Sundays, until I started the blog http://andrewsteelesmith.blogspot.com/
now when he goes to H$, very rarely mind you, he seats with the rest of the great unwashed.
He moved to Bath in 2006 and joined Freedom Church in Bath (FBB) which was at that time part of the Pringle Empire until they split away, It gave him an opportunity to get into the leadership of FBB and offer his services to the church, as he was known within FBB as a successful, wealthy and a man of God.
As to what happened at FBB, I’ve heard 2 stories that seem to fit, Betsy de Thierry … up until ASS’s ex-communication was joined at the hip to ASS. FBB according to the accounts filed at Companies House has circa 2 million quid in assets (ADMIN: I haven’t verified that … but Bath is one of the most expensive places in the UK for property prices and 2 million in property assets is not unreasonable, considering a offices and a new venue for worship services.) and ASS was offering his services as financial adviser.
Because of his connection to the de Thierry’s and his connection to the leadership he became more assertive in the church to the point whereby he started to impose his religious interpretation of the gospels upon the membership and believed that he was given the gift from God to preach. As long as ASS kept pumping in thousands of pounds into FBB as a tithe they put up with it, but once he started getting grandiose ideas of leadership, the got rid of him. (ADMIN: That is one point of view … the facts are of course that ASS was involved with leadership in some way in FBB, was responsible for some kind of disruption amongst the church fellowship and was asked to leave. He did leave but caused even more problems doing so, and many folks left.)
I should point out that in 2009 FBB was informed by one of the members of the church about ASS’s nefarious and duplicitous past, but chose to ignore it. At the time of the split from C3, 40% of the membership voted with their feet and left FBB, during ASS’s tenure more followed.
(ADMIN: I will try and verify the drop in numbers … sounds like the vision I had when we attended FBB and related here on this blog. About half the congregation faded in and out of existence. How bizarre is that? I can’t remember the thread it was on now though … )
(ADMIN UPDATE: church attendance declined sharply … confirmed)
Right then folks … someone out there must know him or at least know of him. Any takers? Anyone want to defend him against these charges?
There will be an update later …
UPDATE: As of January 6th 2012, the above linked blog was taken down as a result of an out of court settlement. Both parties agreed to not defame either party from that date and the legal costs were paid by the party that wanted the blog taken down.
As such, this post has now been updated and edited. (31/01/2012)
Bull having done a bit of a search the guy who sent you this information is posting all over the place the same story about ASS. Alarm Bells are ringing for me..i do;nt thin we should be providing this guy any more publicity (the smear campaigner that is)…There is no reference on the ASIC banned person register for Andrew Steel Smith. i think you should take this down or even better – do a post about the lies the person who sent you the information is telling!
I did a check on the ASIC register for ASS, you have to go to where it says “other registers” click on Banned and Disqualified Register. On that page you will see a box Banned Securities Representatives, click on the button and then type in the surname Steele-Smith and you’ll see the ban from 1994. It looks like the the term of the ban has been changed,and on the ASS blog it gives an explanation why he was given a permanent ban, why the permanent ban was changed you’d have to ask ASIC, but after 16 years maybe ASIC thought he’d served his time, after all you get less for murder. So I don’t think the guy is telling lies, where there is smoke there’s fire comes to mind.
Basically, I heard about him before I did a search on him via a contact in FBB. A garbled tweet about someone being a wolf and dangerous.
I thought I needed to find out more so I am looking more for confirmation or refutation on this from people who actually know him or were burned by him.
I will update this as and when. But thanks for the concern, Greg. I need people to say what they feel, paticularly when they may be correct!
As the author of the ASS blog, the information you seek is all in the blog, I would suggest that you do your own due diligence and contact any of the companies mentioned. The blog has been up for two years now, so if there are any inaccuracies or untruths I would have been informed, also if ASS wished to refute the claims against him then he has ample opportunity to do so via the UK courts. Also in mentioning the companies that have had the ASS “experience” is confirmation enough that they are working with me in bringing ASS to account for what he has done. To Greg the Explorer, most of the scams were done in Australia, check his CV and and check it out, a call to the university of Sydney will tell you very quickly if ASS ahas a Bsc in Economics, and as for his career as a professional triathlete, use Google search to find his name in any race he has said he has won or been in.That’s what I did. I rest my case
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/49310355
This was a legal letter I found, may be of interest?
Smear campaign for sure
All the post’s and blog’s, I’ve seen seem to be from the same, hurt and sad individual. Who appears to be seeking out ways to discredit and destroy anything to do with Andrew Steele-Smith
Indeed. However, I have spoken with many people now who have backed up the basic claim against ASS. Specifically, he tried to take over a large church in the UK.
People have lost quite a bit of money, he was asked to leave and he is going out of his way to discredit a charitable work being done by the leaders of said church.
I may not be in 100% agreement theologically with that church but to be honest, the guy is a real bad egg and the church is doing really good work. He activities are really vindictive and hateful and he was very divisive.
S.Mear, get it “smear” is Andrew Steele-Smith, the letter he links to on his comments, I put up on scribd. His lawyers dumped him 6 months ago. Well done Bull, glad you did some due diligence, bad egg is an understatement, Machiavelli could have learnt from this guy.
that is a pretty big statement … it is also technically wrong.
Evangelical Churches are (historically) bible-based, systematic theology churches that are (for the most part) quiet when it comes to spiritual gifts. It’s almost like they are afraid of letting the jumping bean out of the bag and almost stifle the Holy Spirit.
Then you have Charismatic/Pentecostal type churches. These are Holy Spirit focussed, signs’n'wonders types who rarely refer to the bible apart from throwing out the odd ‘proof’ text.
Needless to say, Oral Roberts and Kenneth Hagin do not belong to the Evangelical stream. They properly belong in the hyper-pentecostal stream.
Now, things have been changing in the past couple of decades.
1) Pentecostals have gotten more into the Bible. Not much but the situation is improving.
2) Evangelicals have, for the most part, abandoned systematic Bible preaching/teaching which subsequently allows ‘every wind of Doctrine’ to flow between their ears.
This means that Pentecostals are possibly getting better bible teaching today than Evangelicals.
In any event … prosperity doctrine is entrenched in the pentecostal stream, not the Evangelical stream.
I used to go to an Evangelical, charismatic church. It was good… with no prosperity doctrine, no submission doctrine, and people from the congregation moving in an orderly fashion in the spiritual gifts from time to time. You can see why I got sad that it changed.
Hi,
The originator’s site has been taken down following engagement with authorities (Police) which has taken place over a number of years. Given that you are republishing some damaging accusations, unless you can stand by and properly prove ALL of the information you are publishing here I would suggest that at least the relevant statements from the external site are removed. These comments come from an individual who has made it his life to seek out and persecute his “hoby horse” for alleged wrongs of the past – even becoming the more distant past. Many of the statements of the more recent past I know are untrue and have come from a Toxic “ministry” where many an individual and family have been badly treated and maligned behind their backs in meetings after either leaving or being “expelled” due to expressing concerns with the ministry.
Given the originator’s acceptance to remove his blog site – I suggest you either validate all the statements or follow suit!
Hands up who wants to hand your nice juicy mistakes of the past to someone like this? Perhaps after this time (15 – 20 years?) Jesus would say, whilst drawing familliar but uncomfortable words in the dust, it’s time to prove we’re so much better, or walk away and let his grace work on us.
I think that it is safe to say that S.Mear and Newby are the same person, as for the claims that the originators site was taken down by the (police) and the reference to the toxic ministry which can only be Freedom Church Bath and Bristol are untrue and lies. Bull’s and my information is correct and can be substantiated.
The fact that no one has responded to Newby’s January 10th comment, says it all.
If the originating blog was taken down for legal reasons – even though in a different country – I think (as I said right from the start) that this post should be deleted.
He merely stated facts. The legal agreement was to close down the blog with the legal costs paid by the other party as part of an out of court settlement. There was no question of wrong doing. You could say that rather than fight it in court, it was easier and cheaper for one party to merely back down and have the legal fees paid as well.
As far as this post goes, it does not contain any information from that other blog, merely an email which I have now edited. The links are still there, albeit dead links.
The interesting facet of this story is the church based activity.
What do we know?
ASS attended FBB.
He became popular. (with some)
He was given a platform by the leadership.
He fell out with the leadership.
He encouraged others to leave with him. (allegedly)
Church attendance dropped significantly (about half).
He has attempted to disrupt a charitable work through legal/political means, while also attempting to set up his own for the same purpose (presumable in competition).
The church has been called “toxic” in the comments above.
I kinda wonder why?
Indeed, why did it take so long to discover this?
What was the problem?
Why have people left? Why have more stayed?
I am very happy to balance this post … indeed, I can make it more explicit in the main post that a legal agreement closed down the email author’s blog.
Don’t you think this is interesting?
I promise to allow anything to be posted (… I did close one thread … but that was because it was really offensive having to read someone denying the holocaust!)
If Andrew Steele-Smith wants to post and make his own case, that’s fine. I am quite happy to engage in debate. In fact, I have heard from everyone else, I would like to hear what he has to say. He is Australian, and this is an Australian blog.
Don’t you want to hear from him too Greg?
If nothing else, I’d like to know how a thriving church can implode.
I’m with Greg here. I want nothing to do with this speculative set of claims.
They are based on rumour and unfounded. Adding the word ‘alleged’ doesn’t make it in-actionable, especially since no one has named who made the allegations, no source for the allegation is directly given and not evidence is produced, names are named and accused, and no care has been take in the post to check the legal standing. It looks defamatory to me.
I think it should be taken down and reworded if and when more substantial evidence is produced, or an apology should be made for unsubstantiated claims.
I find it interesting that there is so much attention being given to the blog, Bull has stated his knowledge and validation at what happened at Freedom Bath & Bristol. As for the blog it was up for 3 years, doesn’t that tell you something, as for why it was taken down read again Bull’s comments above. I cannot comment any further on the out of court agreement nor can the other party without being in contempt of court. If you have doubts about Freedom Bath and Bristol and what happened there, I suggest you contact them, they have a web site, as for ASIC, it’s on your back door, check out their web site, talk to Hillsong in Sydney.
As for Steve’s comment “they are based upon rumour and unfounded” how can you make a statement like that without first checking the facts, did you read the blog, do you know the other party, have you taken the time to do due diligence, my guess is no. So in answer to your request “when more substantial evidence is produced” I suggest you do just that, begin the process.
I hope that this debate will continue, the truth is out there you just have to find it.
Steve and Greg, I have removed one paragraph from the main post. Is there anything in there now which you would consider a problem?
I don’t, personally.
The main post talks about the implosing of a charasmatic/pentecostal ex-C3 church and how it was affected by one man who wasn’t content to walk away, but is actively trying to damage it from a distance.
I know individuals in the fellowship there who feel very strongly about his interference in their charitable works.
Isn’t this important Steve?
Isn’t it hard enough for the Church to be involved in Social Action to reach people undergoing tough times in the middle of all the red-tape and Political correctness without someone deliberately trying to destroy what you are trying to do. All the the while talking about being a ‘man of God’ etc. Isn’t that important Greg?
Please re-read the post guys and give me feedback. I really appreciate that you are concerned in the reputation of the SP02 blog and it is really important you tell me when I am wrong.
The problems here run far deeper than ASS’s influence. The deluge of leavers started far before ASS got excited and I don’t know anyone who left because of that particular debacle. People continue to leave this “church” for much further reaching reasons than that of an ex member with possible wide boy investment tendencies that you may be best advised not to lend money to.
The Confronting Truth says:
December 23, 2011 at 9:09 pm
This is the problem with the prosperity doctrine of the evangelical churches. This is the natural consequence of it.
The above is true, the love of money is the route of all kinds of evil couple that with some covering / shepparding teaching and your’re probably gonna get some problems at some point.
)
Bull having done a bit of a search the guy who sent you this information is posting all over the place the same story about ASS. Alarm Bells are ringing for me..i do;nt thin we should be providing this guy any more publicity (the smear campaigner that is)…There is no reference on the ASIC banned person register for Andrew Steel Smith. i think you should take this down or even better – do a post about the lies the person who sent you the information is telling!
I did a check on the ASIC register for ASS, you have to go to where it says “other registers” click on Banned and Disqualified Register. On that page you will see a box Banned Securities Representatives, click on the button and then type in the surname Steele-Smith and you’ll see the ban from 1994. It looks like the the term of the ban has been changed,and on the ASS blog it gives an explanation why he was given a permanent ban, why the permanent ban was changed you’d have to ask ASIC, but after 16 years maybe ASIC thought he’d served his time, after all you get less for murder. So I don’t think the guy is telling lies, where there is smoke there’s fire comes to mind.
Basically, I heard about him before I did a search on him via a contact in FBB. A garbled tweet about someone being a wolf and dangerous.
I thought I needed to find out more so I am looking more for confirmation or refutation on this from people who actually know him or were burned by him.
I will update this as and when. But thanks for the concern, Greg. I need people to say what they feel, paticularly when they may be correct!
Shalom
As the author of the ASS blog, the information you seek is all in the blog, I would suggest that you do your own due diligence and contact any of the companies mentioned. The blog has been up for two years now, so if there are any inaccuracies or untruths I would have been informed, also if ASS wished to refute the claims against him then he has ample opportunity to do so via the UK courts. Also in mentioning the companies that have had the ASS “experience” is confirmation enough that they are working with me in bringing ASS to account for what he has done. To Greg the Explorer, most of the scams were done in Australia, check his CV and and check it out, a call to the university of Sydney will tell you very quickly if ASS ahas a Bsc in Economics, and as for his career as a professional triathlete, use Google search to find his name in any race he has said he has won or been in.That’s what I did. I rest my case
http://www.scribd.com/mobile/documents/49310355
This was a legal letter I found, may be of interest?
Smear campaign for sure
All the post’s and blog’s, I’ve seen seem to be from the same, hurt and sad individual. Who appears to be seeking out ways to discredit and destroy anything to do with Andrew Steele-Smith
Indeed. However, I have spoken with many people now who have backed up the basic claim against ASS. Specifically, he tried to take over a large church in the UK.
People have lost quite a bit of money, he was asked to leave and he is going out of his way to discredit a charitable work being done by the leaders of said church.
I may not be in 100% agreement theologically with that church but to be honest, the guy is a real bad egg and the church is doing really good work. He activities are really vindictive and hateful and he was very divisive.
That is all that needs to be said on the matter.
Shalom
S.Mear, get it “smear” is Andrew Steele-Smith, the letter he links to on his comments, I put up on scribd. His lawyers dumped him 6 months ago. Well done Bull, glad you did some due diligence, bad egg is an understatement, Machiavelli could have learnt from this guy.
This is the problem with the prosperity doctrine of the evangelical churches. This is the natural consequence of it.
that is a pretty big statement … it is also technically wrong.
Evangelical Churches are (historically) bible-based, systematic theology churches that are (for the most part) quiet when it comes to spiritual gifts. It’s almost like they are afraid of letting the jumping bean out of the bag and almost stifle the Holy Spirit.
Then you have Charismatic/Pentecostal type churches. These are Holy Spirit focussed, signs’n'wonders types who rarely refer to the bible apart from throwing out the odd ‘proof’ text.
Needless to say, Oral Roberts and Kenneth Hagin do not belong to the Evangelical stream. They properly belong in the hyper-pentecostal stream.
Now, things have been changing in the past couple of decades.
1) Pentecostals have gotten more into the Bible. Not much but the situation is improving.
2) Evangelicals have, for the most part, abandoned systematic Bible preaching/teaching which subsequently allows ‘every wind of Doctrine’ to flow between their ears.
This means that Pentecostals are possibly getting better bible teaching today than Evangelicals.
In any event … prosperity doctrine is entrenched in the pentecostal stream, not the Evangelical stream.
Shalom
I used to go to an Evangelical, charismatic church. It was good.
I used to go to an Evangelical, charismatic church. It was good… with no prosperity doctrine, no submission doctrine, and people from the congregation moving in an orderly fashion in the spiritual gifts from time to time. You can see why I got sad that it changed.
Hi,
The originator’s site has been taken down following engagement with authorities (Police) which has taken place over a number of years. Given that you are republishing some damaging accusations, unless you can stand by and properly prove ALL of the information you are publishing here I would suggest that at least the relevant statements from the external site are removed. These comments come from an individual who has made it his life to seek out and persecute his “hoby horse” for alleged wrongs of the past – even becoming the more distant past. Many of the statements of the more recent past I know are untrue and have come from a Toxic “ministry” where many an individual and family have been badly treated and maligned behind their backs in meetings after either leaving or being “expelled” due to expressing concerns with the ministry.
Given the originator’s acceptance to remove his blog site – I suggest you either validate all the statements or follow suit!
Hands up who wants to hand your nice juicy mistakes of the past to someone like this? Perhaps after this time (15 – 20 years?) Jesus would say, whilst drawing familliar but uncomfortable words in the dust, it’s time to prove we’re so much better, or walk away and let his grace work on us.
I think that it is safe to say that S.Mear and Newby are the same person, as for the claims that the originators site was taken down by the (police) and the reference to the toxic ministry which can only be Freedom Church Bath and Bristol are untrue and lies. Bull’s and my information is correct and can be substantiated.
The fact that no one has responded to Newby’s January 10th comment, says it all.
What happened to the blog Jim? Sounds like an interesting follow-up.
Blog post updated. Hmm.
newby, or S.Mear or whoever you are, perhaps you would like to explain what happened at FBB, in your own words?
Why is FBB a “Toxic” ministry? Why did it take you so long to discover this?
Go on … fill your boots. I won’t delete your post, promise.
Jim, let me know if you want me to edit or remove any of your posts …
Shalom
As an aside:
1) There are no statements from an external site … only links to one that isn’t there anymore.
2) If you want to talk about throwing stones and Jesus defending an individual … alright then.
Was he saying that only the sinless person could act as judge, jury and executioner?
Was he talking about the whole law, or the just the law about adultery?
How was a person found guilty under the Law of Moses, legally?
I would be very interested in your answers … whoever you are.
If the originating blog was taken down for legal reasons – even though in a different country – I think (as I said right from the start) that this post should be deleted.
Well, he didn’t break the law Greg.
He merely stated facts. The legal agreement was to close down the blog with the legal costs paid by the other party as part of an out of court settlement. There was no question of wrong doing. You could say that rather than fight it in court, it was easier and cheaper for one party to merely back down and have the legal fees paid as well.
As far as this post goes, it does not contain any information from that other blog, merely an email which I have now edited. The links are still there, albeit dead links.
The interesting facet of this story is the church based activity.
What do we know?
ASS attended FBB.
He became popular. (with some)
He was given a platform by the leadership.
He fell out with the leadership.
He encouraged others to leave with him. (allegedly)
Church attendance dropped significantly (about half).
He has attempted to disrupt a charitable work through legal/political means, while also attempting to set up his own for the same purpose (presumable in competition).
The church has been called “toxic” in the comments above.
I kinda wonder why?
Indeed, why did it take so long to discover this?
What was the problem?
Why have people left? Why have more stayed?
I am very happy to balance this post … indeed, I can make it more explicit in the main post that a legal agreement closed down the email author’s blog.
Don’t you think this is interesting?
I promise to allow anything to be posted (… I did close one thread … but that was because it was really offensive having to read someone denying the holocaust!)
If Andrew Steele-Smith wants to post and make his own case, that’s fine. I am quite happy to engage in debate. In fact, I have heard from everyone else, I would like to hear what he has to say. He is Australian, and this is an Australian blog.
Don’t you want to hear from him too Greg?
If nothing else, I’d like to know how a thriving church can implode.
Shalom
I’m with Greg here. I want nothing to do with this speculative set of claims.
They are based on rumour and unfounded. Adding the word ‘alleged’ doesn’t make it in-actionable, especially since no one has named who made the allegations, no source for the allegation is directly given and not evidence is produced, names are named and accused, and no care has been take in the post to check the legal standing. It looks defamatory to me.
I think it should be taken down and reworded if and when more substantial evidence is produced, or an apology should be made for unsubstantiated claims.
I find it interesting that there is so much attention being given to the blog, Bull has stated his knowledge and validation at what happened at Freedom Bath & Bristol. As for the blog it was up for 3 years, doesn’t that tell you something, as for why it was taken down read again Bull’s comments above. I cannot comment any further on the out of court agreement nor can the other party without being in contempt of court. If you have doubts about Freedom Bath and Bristol and what happened there, I suggest you contact them, they have a web site, as for ASIC, it’s on your back door, check out their web site, talk to Hillsong in Sydney.
As for Steve’s comment “they are based upon rumour and unfounded” how can you make a statement like that without first checking the facts, did you read the blog, do you know the other party, have you taken the time to do due diligence, my guess is no. So in answer to your request “when more substantial evidence is produced” I suggest you do just that, begin the process.
I hope that this debate will continue, the truth is out there you just have to find it.
I was talking about the post on this blog, Jim. I’m not really interested in the saga, or wasting time on it.
Jim, most people don’t really want to go digging.
Steve and Greg, I have removed one paragraph from the main post. Is there anything in there now which you would consider a problem?
I don’t, personally.
The main post talks about the implosing of a charasmatic/pentecostal ex-C3 church and how it was affected by one man who wasn’t content to walk away, but is actively trying to damage it from a distance.
I know individuals in the fellowship there who feel very strongly about his interference in their charitable works.
Isn’t this important Steve?
Isn’t it hard enough for the Church to be involved in Social Action to reach people undergoing tough times in the middle of all the red-tape and Political correctness without someone deliberately trying to destroy what you are trying to do. All the the while talking about being a ‘man of God’ etc. Isn’t that important Greg?
Please re-read the post guys and give me feedback. I really appreciate that you are concerned in the reputation of the SP02 blog and it is really important you tell me when I am wrong.
Shalom
The problems here run far deeper than ASS’s influence. The deluge of leavers started far before ASS got excited and I don’t know anyone who left because of that particular debacle. People continue to leave this “church” for much further reaching reasons than that of an ex member with possible wide boy investment tendencies that you may be best advised not to lend money to.
The Confronting Truth says:
December 23, 2011 at 9:09 pm
This is the problem with the prosperity doctrine of the evangelical churches. This is the natural consequence of it.
The above is true, the love of money is the route of all kinds of evil couple that with some covering / shepparding teaching and your’re probably gonna get some problems at some point.
just to clarify with the ASS issue you may be asking the wrong questions