A Planks&Specks Review; A Renewal with A Bit Of Positive Light?

I’m going through a bit of a conviction spill at the moment.

I was at church three times over the weekend break and felt convicted about some of the things I’ve possibly said on Signposts02 and other sites like Groupsects, EndTimesProphetic, etc that may have been seen as inappropriate.

I would just like to apologize for any form of gossip or slander that may come across from my posts. Wherever they may be. At the same time, I’m aware that these blogs do their best to run on honesty. And try to seek truth behind closed doors. Rants can be healthy and I know I have done so.

So anything that I have said from the flesh that tickled my ego that bordered on pride, slander or power motives, I am incredibly sorry about.

If anyone has found anything suspicious that I have said online, please bring it to my attention. I wish to change them if that is the case. God completely convicted me a few weeks ago that every human being is irrational and that my heart was effecting my thinking. I revealed to me that I was never in control of my head, but how my emotions affected the way I think.

So in light of this, I would like to bring any form of correction to any previous post that people may question as not being ‘honest’. I would say a bit more than  90% are based off actual experiences, accounts and good sources.

And because I feel I am operating in reversal mode, I would just like to invite you in this thread in particular to actually evaluate ministries such as Hillsong, CCC, Lakeland, MorningStarMinistries and actually post up some of the awesome things that they are actually doing.

It’s common for blogs to really have an ‘us versus them’ attitude and I know I have done that knowingly and unknowingly. So part from this being a public apology and correction time for me (if you wish to correct me on views on other threads), I’d like to encourage people to post up some positive things that these minstries have and what there ideals are.

(In doing so, only for this thread will I actually delete comments that are not online with this ‘positive light’ request.)


22 thoughts on “A Planks&Specks Review; A Renewal with A Bit Of Positive Light?

  1. Specks, the silence is deafening. May I have permission to direct our blog to the new C3 website?
    http://myc3church.net/

    Seriously, Phil Pringle gets more mention and attention than Christ Himself – just going link by luink through their new site. I’m sure that’s not his intention but someone is responsible!

  2. The big Pente churches have contributed some major positive things to the Body of Christ I think.

    Actually, most movements start up with the perception of some truth that has been neglected for a while, or in reaction to what has been before, so I see their contribution as part of the long rhythm of contributions from successive Christian movements over history.

    1. I think their major contribution has been to allow the expression of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in church, in their traditional form – tongues, prophecy etc. I know this can be abused, but, it is good in my view that the expression of these things is allowed rather than suppressed. This contribution started with their forebears, who should not be forgotten, but was carried through more broadly by the modern churches. It is the main reason I moved on from my Anglican church into a Pente one many years ago. It is ironic that expression of these gifts seems to be becoming more limited now, but I won’t go into that on this thread.

    2. The other major contribution I think, is the incorporation of modern music into the service, to the point that most churches of most denominations now do this. Hillsong, CCC and others no doubt have contributed some wonderful songs through their musicians. This is not to deny the wonderful music contributed in previous eras, but these big movements have maintained the ability for believers to worship in song in a style contemporary to their own times. The fact that its OK to express emotion in worship is also a wonderful contribution, I think.

    3. Of course there are many individual Christians within these churches who have run or participated in various ministries serving parts of the community; this happens in all Christian denominations, some more than others, and it is good to see the big Pente churches participating in this too, in principle.

    4. Generosity: I don’t agree with their approach to tithing, but there is no doubt that their congregations are very generous, and having been part of that has influenced me with respect to generosity. It may have influenced others too, who like me, have rejected tithing doctrine as error. I see that as a good thing.

    5. Encouragement to pray and have faith: this emphasis is also a good thing, when its translated into an individual’s walk. This is why I think we see individuals in these churches encouraged in their personal walks, despite other things happening that may not be so helpful at times.

    The main thing is, I think, that we don’t need to judge one denomination to have all the answers or all the problems.

    S&P – I hope this goes along with your intention for this thread. 🙂

  3. Generally when I criticise something I don’t mean to imply that it is all bad – and its because I care that I do it. Some things have started off well; sometimes the plot gets a bit lost along the way. Most things aren’t entirely black or white.

  4. I think there is good to be found in every church. I also think that most major advances of the church have been a result of the frustration of the where the church was currently at. I think it is a tremendously positive thing that the Church continues to grow through people who stand for what they beleive. Whether they be the apostles, Martin Luther or Brian and Phil.

    Brian and Phil have had a major impact on creative ministries and worship because they weren’t happy with the way things were.

    Similarly, I am very positive about this blog community as people express their veiws and desires to explore an alternative way of gathering!

    God continues to build His Church and it is exciting to be a part of that.

  5. PS I meant to say that criticism can also be positive. As a husband I take on board my wife’s criticisms to help me become a better spouse. To ignore well founded criticism would be dangerous.

    Allowing her to express her emotions and views within the safety of our marriage also helps her to grow and even listen to my frustrations with her.

    Thankfully she only works on one thing at a time!!

  6. “S&P – I hope this goes along with your intention for this thread. :)”

    Well balanced and well thought out RavingPente.
    And I will do so Teddy. I’m fully aware of this and I am looking at doing an article on this. I am just about to finish gathering up some final information on some things involving the re branding.

    I’ve been aware of this for a few months and now more information is coming out.

  7. I like it how people like Darlene Zschech and Kris Pringle promote and keep people aware of making a global difference by supporting and bringing aid to the poor worldwide.

    The majority of big ministries do. And because they are big in numbers, those numbers are being reinforced that they can make a difference in the world by giving financially for a greater cause.

    Many other people within these big churches also start up various life-changing charities and ministries.

  8. In view of these comments, the fact that groupsects is mentioned in this post, and is referenced as part of the signposts02 community, I think it would be appropriate for regular commenters there and here to say something to Lance about one of his recent posts, ‘Is your Pente Pastor a psychopath?’, which is followed by a psychiatric opinion of what a psychopath is.

    He no longer answers anyone’s emails, apparently. You are his community. I am banned forever from his site.

    I realise he has carefully crafted the title to barely miss defamation or religious vilification charges, but the general sentiment is appalling and derogitory. I guess some would see it as funny, but, really, it isn’t, when you think about it. It’s very disturbing.

    I wonder when he’ll have the courage to apply the same question to militant imams.

    I thought about this, and turn the other cheek is appropriate, but only on the premise that Lance is a heathen, a pagan, or an unbeliever who persecutes believers.

    Christians, if he is one, on the other hand, are either rebuked, corrected or disciplined for maligning their brethren, either by person, fact or suggestion.

    The thing is, when a person is not even submitted to the rest of the Body in the fear of the Lord (Eph.5:21), let alone an elder of a church, how can a Christian who sows discord amongst brethren be reprimanded?

    http://groupsects.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/is-your-pente-pastor-a-psychopath/

  9. Lighten up Facelift! Even pastors are poking fun at themselves these days or discovering a more real approach to Christian ministry.

  10. I dont know how you could not get a Narcissistic personality disorder if you were in certain types of Ministry – particularly high-profile ones.

    John Piper takes a few months off, where he says he’s going to do absolutely nothing – and he gets universal praise and applause from other pastors and the general community.

    Dont get me wrong, I think its a very good thing that he’s doing – but there would be very few jobs where you’d get that kind of affirmation for taking a holiday.

  11. John Piper is taking time out to restore the proper balance to his marriage – rightfully acknowledging that his marriage is more important than his ministry. As was said by another pastor ….

    “Piper’s greater concern to work out his own salvation in fear and in trembling rather than to extend his influence.. We should all take careful note.”

  12. Most Pastors I know are fairly retiring in their demeanour, not in any way narcissistic. Even narcissism is a sinister disorder, and not attributable to pastoral ministry.

    There will, of course, be a handful who are narcissistic, but bearing in mind that most are self effacing, it’s unkind to suggest this. I think you’re a fool if you take yourself too seriously in ministry, but that doesn’t mean we have to let a so called brother aim unkind accusations. There is a vast difference between narcissism and confidence.

    And psychopathic is long step beyond narcissism.

    Far from having to lighten up, I believe the suggestion that Pente Pastors might be psychopathic is a gross insult, and that it’s worthwhile speaking up.

    And why Pente Pastors?

    I take it, s&p, you are in agreement with groupsects on this. But I see that wazza2 stops short of psychopath, and reverts to the narcissist suggestion.

    I wish John Piper well as he steps out for a while. Marriages suffer in ministry because of the demands, and most Pastors don’t earn enough to take decent holidays and get away from church life for a while.

    The reason he is applauded is that so many pastors will identify with what he is saying. The pride issues are another matter, but these things can creep in if they’re not checked.

    Any Pastor who fails to listen to his wife is an idiot!

  13. ok thanks RP. I dont think its about John Piper specifically, I think its a good decision he has made.
    But others make the same kinds of decisions every day and do not have the same level of attention paid to them.

    Its more about the way that some Pastors lives are lived in a fish-bowl, everyone looking in and commenting. Negative comments would be very difficult, but also positive ones could be difficult to deal with over time – which is why I said it would be difficult not to become a narcissist.

  14. I agree with FL … it is just plain wrong to tar all Pente Pastors with the same brush.

    No one comes to leadership (inside or outside Church) and has a cake walk. Very often, the path of least resistance involves those who do, rather than those who wait to be asked to do.

    So, it is always the same folks doing the work that many others should be doing.

    The difficulty is in balancing your own time with the needs of Church etc. There is also a built in reticence to volunteer and it is based on a cross between humility and a lack of self-confidence.

    So, leaders shouldn’t be bashed in general. Specific “Leaders” who are nothing of the sort should be exposed, however.

    (I am still in a good mood … so I will look at something uplifting now … 🙂 )

    Shalom.

  15. Changing the subject somewhat, a brilliantly written and thoughtful article by Chris Uhlmann of the ABC today. It’s also the closest the ABC comes to acknowledging this as an important day in the world’s calendar, apart from the odd bishop’s speech.

    Uhlmann is an agnostic with Catholic roots, but his honesty is revealing as we seek ways to reach a post-modern society currently being bombarded with atheistic thought.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/01/2863068.htm?site=thedrum#comments

    ‘Nietzsche was an atheist. But he was honest enough to know that declaring God dead opened the horrifying prospect of having to rethink morality. He knew he had removed the keystone on which the West was built.

    Our society rests on the assumption of moral absolutes: right, wrong, good and bad. That is based on the belief that there is an objective truth and from that firm foundation we can judge good and evil. Our society rests on the presumption of God.

    Remove God and you hurl us into chaos: none of the comfortable assumptions remain and the entire basis of society has to be reinvented. Or you could just live a lie.

    Nietzsche was courageous enough to take on what he saw as the superhuman task of trying to define morality in the absence of God. Most atheists never even imagine the question. Most have never confronted the reality of what the death of God means to the West.

    We made the laws that govern our society on the Judaeo-Christian assumption of a righteous God, and we still behave as if there is one even though many no longer believe it.

    We now live in a moral halfway house. When we face moral questions today we are deeply uncertain of how to proceed, because we have erased the baseline.’

  16. FL, the other alternative would be the one used in oriental/Islamic culture:

    The concept of honor and shame (hearkens back to the shame Adam and Eve felt when they found out after the fall that they were naked).

    The assumption then is that “right” is what preserves the state of honor (being/feeling righteous) and “bad” is what destroys it and brings upon men the perception of shame (or the realization of being fallen/sinful).

    This, however ends up in the constant denial of fallenness and desperate need of redemption, because all effort is put into the task of preventing the situation of being confronted with it (both in mind and in practical action).

    Look into the Islamic world and you see where such morality leads to, and not only on the private and family level.

Comments are closed.