Consulting The Dead

How should we pray then?
How then should we pray?

For quite a while now, I’ve heard from numerous Christian’s, (when in argument about people like Rick Joyner, Benny Hinn, Crowder, Todd Bentley, Bob Jones and many others pray to the dead), that it’s alright to do so.

I’ve always used the scripture that “God is God of the Living” only to have others claim that Christian’s are in heaven and are therefore ‘living’.  More specifically, in Rick Joyner’s book “The Final Quest”, he talks to the Apostle Paul, a revivalist and his wife, a dead member of his congregation and some others. He talks to other dead figures in some of his other books and the controversial figure “Enoch”.

As a result, there have been some claims that various Old Testament prophets have spoken to people. I would like to test their claims, but have not looked into them.

Is it biblical now to pray to the “dead” Christians. Or are we returning to Roman Catholic teachings and practices? In praying to Christians, does this compromise anything in our Christian walk and if not, what is the benefit of this?

Those that say the dead are “alive” in heaven, do they have a good biblical or gospel understanding of “glorification”, “resurrection”, eschatology, anthropology or Christology? What scriptures can we use to support/object praying to the “living dead”?


9 thoughts on “Consulting The Dead

  1. Alright then.

    Praying to the dead, or having a conversation with a dead person is necromancy. It is an occult practice.

    God explicitly forbid it (in the old testament) and only allowed Samuel to speak to Saul to tell him he would die that day!

    “Third Heaven” experiences are not to be trusted.

    Yes, Paul went on a ‘journey’ but was not allowed to discuss it with anyone. So … anyone who does discuss such an experience is instantly under suspicion. If Paul wasn’t allowed to talk about what he saw, why is Rick Joyner? Let’s face it … Joyner is a gnostic heretic. He is a great servant of Satan.

    Even though Paul went on a ‘journey’ we see that he did not talk to dead believers. He certainly didn’t bring ‘information’ back to make himself look better than anyone.

    Look at the attitude displayed by Paul as he went through his life and the NAR as it has gone on.

    Paul became increasingly humble in everything he said and did. The NAR has become more puffed up and self-important … they are the “new breed” or “manifest SONS of God” after all. Todd is the mightiest of the lot … yet he can’t look at a woman without thinking with his penis.

    Paul starts off saying “I’m the least of the Apostles”

    then … “I’m the least of the saints” … then … “chief of sinners”. He demonstrates an increasingly Christ-like attitude.

    The NAR grows more like Satan every day.

    We cannot talk to the dead and get a response.
    Who do the NAR talk to? Well, if the options are:

    1) Divine Revelation
    2) Human Imagination
    3) Demonic Deception

    then since the first is ruled out, what are we left with?

    We don’t need to speak to dead Christians. We have a direct line to Jesus so why do we need any intermediary?

    The NAR needs an intermediary … God doesn’t talk to them. They are apostates. They are potentially in “a worse position than if they had never known the way of Salvation”.

    I do not deny spiritual gifts. I do not believe that signs and wonders died out with the original apostles. However, the NAR are full of lying signs and wonders. They are full of false prophecies.

    The bottom line folks is that while CCC and Hillsong have issues, like all churches do, the NAR is now outside the camp. The NAR is a clear and present danger to all churches world-wide and we must have nothing to do with them.

    I tell you the truth, if Todd Bently pitched up at my church I would have no hesitation in making a ‘scene’ and throw him out bodily. Like the money-changers in the temple, the NAR has desecrated the church universal. They are guilty of the uttermost blasphemy, even denying that Jesus Christ is the only master and lord.

    Shalom.

  2. Bull – I’m interested in that last comment you made:

    “…even denying that Jesus Christ is the only master and lord.”

    Re speaking with dead people – yes, I think this is an area that parts of the church seem to be drifting into. It’s worthwhile going through the scriptures on this.

    Speaking with dead people is a great way to claim authority for what is said, and know that no-one can challenge it without directly calling you a liar or loony. (Which is too confrontational for many of us.) For some reason, the dead are supposed to be wiser than us too, to know more and therefore be the final word on a subject.

    I’m afraid I’m highly suspicious of anyone who claims some kind of ‘revelation’ from speaking with dead apostles. Yet even though there is no way to verify what they say, these ‘Apostles’ in NAR expect people to just trust them, and many people do. Any time anyone expects people to ‘just trust’ them, using claimed authority rather than evidence, there’s plenty of room for suspicion, and we’re not called to be naive. Particularly when we have an example in Genesis of Eve ‘just trusting’ the snake.

    Bull, in Australia, you’d expect some people who want you to ‘just trust’ them (without the benefit of actually knowing them well), to put their arm around you and say, “Maaaaate…” (A well known reason to instantly distrust.)

    God doesn’t expect us to put faith in anyone who claims authority from those sources. Our faith is only in Him, and in Jesus whom He sent. People shouldn’t feel guilty for questioning these claims, even if they are part of a community that for some reason has accepted them.

  3. Part of my post didn’t make it:

    Bull – I’m interested in that last comment you made:

    “…even denying that Jesus Christ is the only master and lord.”

    Do you have any references for that? It would be quite informative.

  4. Sorry, just read this, when I was first saved my, I asked this at church and they said in Revelation, sorry can’t remember where, that the deceased are asleep and on judgement day would be raised but having said that, when people almost die they have said they see their deceased relatives so….have to look into it more, the Bible I mean. lol

  5. It’s one thing to have a near death experience and see your family etc …

    It’s entirely different to obtain doctrine and theology from the dead …

    to deny Jesus as the only Master and Lord …
    Todd Bentley and Angel Emma-O. “It’s not enough that people believe in Jesus … they need to believe in the Angel.” to quote Bentley.

    The extent that only when the Angel is present, do the signs and wonders occur. Hmm.

    You scared yet?

  6. Yeah, I prefer just following Jesus. He seems to make alot of sense when the “world” seems chaotic. And he’s alive….

  7. Don’t get me started in Emma-O. I saw the signs of that demon here in Oz when certain ministers came from Todd’s ministry came to minister down here. I had no idea what I was looking at until I researched Emma-O. It freaked me out, and I have a feeling that is what attacked me at one of the meetings.

    Yes everyone. I have been officially physically, spiritually attacked at a Freshfire Minister’s ‘Revival’ Meeting.

  8. Genesis 4:10
    The LORD said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground.

    Revelations 6:9-10
    When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

    God tells Cain to listen to the cry of his brother’s blood from the ground. In Revelations, the future dead (creepy! but good band name – FutureDead), cry out to God and John records their words… Does blood speak? Are we to listen to the sound of blood?

    One man used the above scriptures on me and I was stumped completely.

  9. The book of Revelation is many things, but does not sanction cosy chats with the deceased.

    None of the dead mentioned in Revelation are having a private conversation with John.

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