Feisty Ford Go’s On Giggling

Volcanic Eruption of Firey Smokey Love & Drinking Beer in Church!, also why Matt walked out on a preach!

Volcanic Eruption of Firey Smokey Love
& Drinking Beer in Church and why Matt walked out mid-preach!

There is a massive level of excitement building up in the Spirit. It is as if a massive volcanic torrent of Jesus is about to go off and light up the sky with molten liquid love and plumes of His Glory. As with any volcanic activity there is an incredible amount of heat produced, enough to melt the flesh right off ya bones. That is exactly what Holy Spirit is doing this hour… melting away the flesh nature with the liquid love (the new wine) of His presence. The heat can be uncomfortable, but in yielding to it, you will actually become who He created you to be. Why settle for anything less. It is no longer about us, it has never been about us, we don’t own ourselves. We are love slaves of righteousness.

I am continually amazed at the state of the church, and not the good sort of amazement. Where has the hunger and passion gone? Not a hunger for conferences or your favourite conference speaker, but for the dude that made you. There is some sort of “conference” just about on every block, yet the revelation of Love, His love for us, is not getting through. Would the drunken army of radical, un-compromising Jesus lovers please stand up and SHOUT to the Heavens. Let the Wine of His Spirit flow!

Recently I walked out of my own church mid-preach. I was in a really sweet trance and was having a total blast teaching from inside that state. At which point I was seeing into the hearts and minds and lives of the congregation. Freaky stuff. Scary stuff. Not the sort of stuff ya wanna see when you are preaching about ecstatic experiences, trances and holiness. I was taken back by the lack of hunger and the amount of self pride which was manifesting in some people. My spirit man was incredibly grieved and up-set by the condition of the hearts. People who had been in churches for many years, carrying critical and judgemental attitudes in their hearts to the point that these “attitudes” control their lives.

When I minister in the glory, Holy Spirit enables me to hear peoples thoughts. Which can at times be a freaky thing, but it enables me to “target” my message at those people by speaking life into their thought patterns and totally freaking them out when I tell them what they are thinking. God knows everything… everything. He wants us to change from glory to glory to glory to glory… We need His mind, on every situation and circumstance in our lives.

When Holy Spirit is operating in “renewal” mode and there are bodies hitting the floor and howling left right and centre I truly love it. But when Holy Spirit is moving softly on hearts and is teaching His people, is it too much to ask for a little respect, to shut your kids up and stop them from running and squealing around the building? Where has the respect gone? For God and others. Lack of discipline is gross and does no one any favours at all. We can justify anything and make excuses for everything, but in the end we need people to change, and sometimes a rebuke from Heaven is what is needed. I said nothing when I left, I just put the mic down and walked out. The glory cloud followed me and that “scared” a few people, causing “fear”. Not scared that I walked out, but that God followed me. I had great fun trying to drive home whacked 🙂 We can play the grace card for ever, but it’s about time the church grew up and acted it’s age.

Since this happened I have been called and labelled everything under the sun, and most of it not too nice 🙂 Surprisingly, people who weren’t even in the meeting and some who have never been to one of my meetings seem very opinionated about my action. Labelling me un-pastoral and un-caring. It’s true, I am not a pastor, I am an apostle… I kick butt, break ground and bring things into line that need to be. That in it’s self is caring, if I did not care then I would sit back and let apathy rule my church and I would not bring any correction and would allow people to wallow further in their own self pity and flesh indulgent life style of carnal living.

I made a decision. Do I worry about what “man” will think and say, and how they will “interpret” my actions through their own broken and tainted lenses, or do I do what I see my Father doing. Many have said I made a “wrong” choice and that the voice I heard was my own “little boy” needing attention and that I need to apologise for causing “offence”. My “little boy” is just fine thanks, he does not need or require attention to make himself feel good. I will preach to 1 or 10000000, It really doesn’t worry me at all, as long as He is with me.

I will NEVER apologise to a demonic spirit that I upset, and I will NEVER apologise for obeying my Father. I will NOT tolerate SIN in my church family, on any level. There has been far too much compromise in the Kingdom and it has to stop. People that live in and love sin are already offended at everything and everyone, I did not cause them any offence, I upset the demons in them by not “submitting” to them, there is a big difference. What is on the pastor will be on the sheep. It is easy in Australia to tell what church people go to, by what is on them. Stan my intern, is growing in discernment and recently said to me in a meeting “they are from X church”. I laughed and said “how can ya tell”. “They have the same devils as their pastor”. LOL Go Stan Go.

It has been advises to me that I remain “sober” so that I can preach, teach and finish a sermon, and then get drunk at the end of the meeting. Urm.. NO WAY! A religious spirit will always tell you to tone it down and not get too drunk. Which bit of “be filled” don’t people understand? I live a lifestyle of intimacy and intoxication and I am not coming out of Heaven for anyone.

I am not perfect, just ask my parents. I make mistakes, but not this time. I stood up to a demonic principality and we, as a ministry and also individually took some major hits from it over the past 5-6 weeks. The critter I am talking about is Leviathan. Teaching on this beast is available for free on our web site. This is not your little garden variety demon, it is a demonic principality. In order to take it out you need to walk and live in humility. I humbled my self before God and walked out in front of man, because I was not going to allow the glory which He was releasing to be abused and dis-honoured. You respect a King when they turn up. I never want my church to take the presence and the glory of the Lord for granted. Yes we can and do have a total drunken fun time in it, that is because we respect Him and Who He is. He is our Daddy and He loves to play with His kids.

I have been asking people this question. “You are upset that I walked out, but what has God said to you about it, what is His take on it?”

EVERY response has been… “But God is love and He wouldn’t just walk out of a meeting”.

Urmm, yeah, read ya Bible people. Holy Spirit announces His arrival, but not His departure.

No one has actually asked the Father what He thinks about it all 🙂

While about 70% of my church has left, the remaining 30% stand with me on this. It was a really God / good way of thinning out the heard. I now have people who want the Glory, not for them selves but to give it away. A people who are committed to His presence and protecting His anointing at all cost. Even to reputation and relationships. I will never pander to peoples strongholds, but I will release them if they want it. Another sign which has been great is that the offering has not lowered, in fact it has increased 🙂 If you aren’t sowing into a church or ministry, then you really have NO legal right to judge it or speak against it.

The fruit of my actions has been so amazing. The atmosphere is clean and the expectancy has gone through the roof. This Sunday 23rd August we opened up the church for a “Love Feast” where we catered a meal for the community. The last 6 weeks of hell has been so worth it for the people that came on Sunday and the major encounters they had with their Daddy. We kicked the “seeker sensitive” devil in the crotch and we didn’t hold back at all from releasing the glory of Heaven. And guess what? No one left or got too freaked out 🙂 But they ALL got so blessed.

Jesus touched people in a way that they had been dreaming of for ages. They had a real power encounter with their maker. Gladly exchanging their sin for His righteousness in one transaction. They are all coming back on Tuesday for the Mystic Glory School, they can’t wait to get back into the glory. This is what we are about, seeing lives transformed by Jesus in an instant. He is so precious.

This brings me to one of my pet peeve’s. Pente-Time. This is so silly and basic that I can’t believe I have to address it. When a church starts at 9am or 4pm or what ever time, you DO NOT turn up 30-90 minutes into it, unless your hiding your sin from God… but He knows any-ways. I understant that “things” happen sometimes, but every week, come on.

It is so disrespectful not only to the preacher who has spent 20-40 hours a week in prayer and preparation for you and the meeting, but also to God. I am amazed at how rude the pente and charo’s can be. We seem to place our selves on a higher level than the non-spirit filled, but hey, they get to church before it starts and they discipline their kids. This is not being “religious” , it is simply placing some Godly boundaries in place so that the Lord can actually deal with the crap in your lives. Hoooo, there’s some sauce on that! When we get into multiple meetings on a Sunday, being on time will be vital. Is turning up to work late each day being non-religious?

Onto drinking beer at church. Yes we had people drinking beer at our community meal on Sunday. It was great to see hungry people in the sanctuary, in God’s tangible presence, drinking beer. And guess what? God’s glory didn’t lift for a second. When we invite “the world” into our churches it isn’t going to be all cordial and decaf coffee.

They had a great time, and they were not drunk. One guy got “light headed” and felt great from drinking our punch. We didn’t have punch, it was orange juice that the Holy Ghost had filled up with some heavenly wine, LOL was so funny to this guy heading back for more.

When he got prayed for he got filled with the Holy Spirit and felt “electricity” all over Him. Was so sweet to watch.

The only problem we had with beer in the Barrel was some religious nut from another church “quoting scripture” about drinking beer. Oh dear, a religious spirit quoting a scripture that doesn’t even exist. This caused some offence to the young lady who I had said was more than welcome to drink beer. She refuses to come back while that person is there, and I don’t blame her at all. It is going to be messy when people get saved, is the church ready for the world?

Now don’t mix up my first comments with this one. There is grace and a lot of it, for new converts and old. But after years in church and a lifestyle of church hopping, a standard needs to be raised and things need to be addressed. Capish! That was a love capish 🙂

A young lady who got really whacked by God and set free was telling me how she wanted to give up her really bad life and go full on for Jesus in every way, and I believe she will. She has tasted the freedom and the joy and the love and she wants it without measure.

This is the last time I will address the issue of me walking out, I have wasted enough time talking to devils about it.

I am aware of the websites out there that are run by demonically influenced and controlled people, that are slandering us all over the world. This does not worry me at all, nor does it bother me. Free advertising I say 🙂 I will not get into conversation with them, nor will I debate their silly doctrines. Everyone interprets scripture a bit differently, we all need to learn to tolerate each other, after all, we may end up spending eternity together. (I know they monitor my facebook 🙂 Hello)

While this was written primarily for my congregation, I wanted to publish it to not only bring to light some things and break it’s power, but to also challenge those who label people, without even meeting them.

Believe the best in people and seek the truth, no matter what others may say about someone. Ask God what He thinks of them. I dare ya!

Standing with my feet firmly planted in Heaven.

Matt Ford.
Fire It Up Int’l Ministries.
http://www.fireitup.com.au


46 thoughts on “Feisty Ford Go’s On Giggling

  1. More of Matt Ford… Thanks for all the random e-mails on what this guys is teaching and saying:

    HERE IS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT LEVIATHAN.

    If the devil cannot get you in sin, he will accuse you or even make up a lie against you when you are innocent. Proverbs 6:19 “A false witness that uttereth lies.” is one of his heads. We need to be sure to respond to these demonically inspired attacks that even can come from those closest to you, being used by the devils purpose, that we do not wrestle against flesh and blood. We must also remember to respond in a right spirit. We cannot afford to allow Leviathan to operate in us, as we can become offended at the lie and accusations, criticisms or judgments spoken of us and strike back. To strike back or lash out is what Leviathan wants. It is with his tail in Rev 12:4 “that he withdrew a third of the angels in heaven.”

    This Leviathan wants you to be destroyed and carried away with the lies, gossip, slander and accusations he will bring against you and if he can he will carry your friends and those who labor with you in the ministry away in the lie and deception. He wants people to believe the lie and accusation against you. Number one, he wants to slander your character and bring reproach on your name.

    I believe that Leviathan is behind lies and deception.

    Leviathan is working today through the body of Christ and we see many churches, ministers and organizations bringing accusation against one another. There is a critical, faultfinding spirit at work in church today judging and speaking against moves of God, ministries and denominations different from one another. We do not need faultfinders and those who feel to be the watchdogs of Christianity. We do need those who will restore the body of Christ. Galatians 6:1 “Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.”

    Let us not forget how many have been quick to judge harshly and criticize the body of Christ, find fault and publicly publish Christian dirt. Lets not let Leviathan work through us but lets operate in the anointing of Galatians 6:1.

    This Leviathan spirit will hide the meaning behind what is said and cause there to be miscommunication and misunderstanding. That’s how this spirit can sow discord among brethren. Have you ever been at the office or maybe in your marriage and something you say is taken the wrong way, someone will say, “you said this” and you say no “I said this” and you both think your right, or you say one thing and they hear it as another i.e.: you said it is black and they hear blue. Leviathan wants to get in between your conversation and hearing and distort or mutter what one is really saying. This can happen between friends, ministry and even children and parents.

    Continued at http://www.fireitup.com.au

  2. Matt – You control and manipulate your “flock” by fear and witchcraft You have brought people in and are making them “twice as much the sons of hell as yourselves”. Do you really think God can be mocked in such a blasphemous way?

  3. “I am aware of the websites out there that are run by demonically influenced and controlled people…”

    I guess he means us, based on the recent correspondence, and others like us.

    I find it strange that he criticises people who criticise, but calls other churches ‘dead’ – a pretty big criticism. He doesn’t seem to pull any punches when it comes to what he thinks of 70% of the people in his congregation either.

    Ah well. It must be OK, because he is an apostle.

    And there’s that thing about getting to church on time and disciplining the kids… heard that before! My last pastor said that part of holiness was getting to church on time.

  4. Teddy, it sounds alarming to me, and not because of any ‘drunkenness’. There appears to me to be a discrepancy between the talk of love and the tone of his discourse and command towards his congregation.

    Perhaps S&P, we should proceed to ignore these guys, unless you really have it on your heart to continue their free publicity?

  5. In his comments on John 10, J. C. Ryle makes a worthy observation regarding “our Lord’s strong language about the false teachers of the Jews. . . .” Ryle writes:

    “Those who think that unsound ministers ought never to be exposed and held up to notice, and men ought never to be warned against them, would do well to study this passage. No class of character throughout our Lord’s ministry seems to call forth such severe denunciation as that of false pastors. The reason is obvious. Other men ruin themselves alone: false pastors ruin their flocks as well as themselves. To flatter all ordained men, and say they never should be called unsound and dangerous guides, is the surest way to injure the Church and offend Christ.”

    And I say amen.

  6. “Perhaps S&P, we should proceed to ignore these guys, unless you really have it on your heart to continue their free publicity?”

    They’re local. Just like we watch what Hillsong, CCC and other ministries do that might spark controversy or invite dodgy speakers or doctrines, I think it is important to just observe what this ministry is doing.

    Ignoring the problem doesn’t mean it will go away. Highlighting the problem makes people question if they want to be associated with that ministry or know what to expect from that ministry.

    Are they Christian? Yes.
    Do I love them as my Christian brothers? Yes.
    Are they on the edge of being a damaging ministry? Yes.

    So their teachings, words and actions will speak louder when we amplify their voice. People can see for themselves the damaging nature of this ministry when it’s their own actions that condemn them.

    Monitoring them too, is also plausible because we can be happy when things do change for the better.

  7. Why do you say they are Christian? Just curious.Doesn’t the bible say we will know them by their fruits?

  8. “Perhaps S&P, we should proceed to ignore these guys, unless you really have it on your heart to continue their free publicity?”

    Fair responses, S&P. As long as you don’t mind that it may inadvertently promote them as well.

    Could be that in this case we have more of a duty to raise issues because they are local to us, as you say, and some blog on the other side of the world wouldn’t find them relevant to their local scene.

    For what its worth, I see nothing here to particularly distinguish Ford from many other Pente pastors – the doctrine about apostolic covering is the same; the doctrine about giving/tithing is the same; despite their claims, the religious attitudes are the same (be on time or you are disrespecting God!! etc).

    Differences include that most Pente pastors wouldn’t say that they could hear the actual thoughts of congregation members, however, and I can totally understand how that would put a lot of his congregation off. Of course this claim cannot be proven nor disproven easily! One is either totally cynical, or if one is a follower of Ford’s, totally credulous.

    The main difference from other Pente churches seems to be the ‘drunkenness’ extreme (including the ‘street witnessing’ behaviour, and the claim to access ‘the glory’ more than other churches. (I’ve heard that one before too – every church seems to have the best anointing for some reason!) It’s important to bear in mind that some people have only good things to say about the drunkenness experience, and it could be a genuine phenomenon which is being promoted in a provocative manner to a non-target audience.

    None of these things mean that he’s not Christian.

    However, given that Ford claims to somehow not be religious, I think he has much in common with those he appears to criticise, while being more extreme in some practices.

    So I’d have similar reservations to those I have about any group teaching ‘covering’ doctrines, and can’t see at this stage any evidence in the character he presents online, that he has really had any extra revelation. Such an encounter with Jesus as I understand he claims to have had, would surely change a person into one who demonstrates more love and humility, or who evangelises more, rather than someone who seeks to ‘cover’ other churches, receive tithes, and hassles people for not disciplining kids or turning up to church late.

  9. Matthew 7:16-18 “Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn’t bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.”

    What Jesus is saying is, don’t listen just to what they say – look at the product. An example, how Matt treats his “flock” and deludes them with lying signs.

    Matthew 8:21-23 “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”

    False teachers appear to say the right thing (although Matt hardly ever seems to be saying the right thing)- they speak about the Lord. But they don’t know the Lord, and the Lord does not know them, and we have been warned about that reality.

    I really don’t have a problem calling these guys out. I put John Crowder and Patricia King in the same group (they are responsible for guys like Matt)- I don’t believe they are saved. They need to repent of their rebellion and be saved. And I don’t think of myself as any less of a sinner than they are – I just put my trust in the finished work of Christ for my life.

  10. It’s a tough call saying what I feel about these people – I’ve seriously felt that way about John Crowder from the first time he showed up on the internet. There’s such a mocking spirit attached to this stuff – bottom line, it makes me very sad.

    In the old C3 days we saw a lot of disturbed people come and go. These are the same poor little ones who find themselves attached to the “lifeline” these groups seem to offer. Like attracts like. Such a wicked abuse.

  11. Which raises the question, what should the response of a healthy church community be towards disturbed people in their midst? As you say, they came and went from C3, and no doubt many other places.

  12. I had a look at a link on John Crowder (admittedly a critical one): http://www.apologeticsindex.org/778-john-crowder-sons-of-thunder

    There is a quote there from a website about Crowder, that says:
    “We are called to live an intoxicated lifestyle, inebriated on the presence of God to the point of full possession. ”

    I think this is where the fallacy is.

    The Holy Spirit does not ‘possess’ us. That implies that He takes us over and controls us completely. That is not the relationship of a friend, but of a slave, and its easy to show from scripture, from the words of Jesus Himself, that this is error.

    Jesus said:
    12″This is (O)My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13″(P)Greater love has no one than this, that one (Q)lay down his life for his friends. 14″You are My (R)friends if (S)you do what I command you.

    15″No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for (T)all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.

    We are His friends when we do what He commands – love one another (see preceding verses in John 15). We abide in him and bear fruit when we do what He commands – love one another.

    We are friends, not slaves, and don’t need to be possessed by the Holy Spirit. Also in John 15, Jesus promised to send us the Holy Spirit. None of the descriptions of the Holy Spirit are ‘Controller’. Here’s the quote from the Amplified version, giving lots of possible permutations – but not ‘controller’ –

    ” 26But when the Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Advocate, Intercessor, Strengthener, Standby) comes, Whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth Who comes (proceeds) from the Father, He [Himself] will testify regarding Me.”

    The whole of our salvation miraculously preserves free will – it is so contrary to that to teach that we should ask any spirit to take us over, and that is just not how the Holy Spirit works. He may nudge, prompt, teach, anoint, reveal – but nothing in scripture that I know of says that He overrides our free will. The challenges of following Jesus whilst having free will to go our own way at any time help to mature us.

    If this movement hangs on the pretext of being ‘possessed’ by the Holy Spirit, then its definitely false teaching in my view. And quite dangerous.

  13. Galations 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me……”

    As believers we have the privilege of the indwelling Christ thus empowering us to give evidence of the fruit He produces. Where do we see Christ, our example, behaving like a drunkard? Or any of the crazy manifestations they claim?

  14. “Where do we see Christ, our example, behaving like a drunkard? Or any of the crazy manifestations they claim?”

    I just looked up all the references to ‘drunk’ in the Bible. Pretty interesting.

    Generally speaking, one would have to say that drunkenness, whether on wine or on anything else, isn’t a desirable state, in scripture, because of the foolishness it leads to. There are some references to the Lord making people drunk – on his wrath, or in order to become blind, or prior to their imminent death, for example. (I can list them if you want.)

    We don’t see Jesus behaving like a drunkard.

    However – we do see him being called a drunkard. We do see some people who are thought to be drunk when they are not – Hannah in the OT, when she was praying in anguish, and the disciples at Pentecost. In each case, people were immediately reassured that they were not drunk, and told what was really happenning – Hannah praying; the disciples speaking in strange tongues.

    With this new phenomena, people are not actually being encouraged to get physically drunk. It’s possible that some people may be being encouraged to give up their drinking or drugs, because the Holy Spirit is better.

    I think that there may be times when under the influence of the Holy Spirit, people are mistaken for actually being drunk on alcohol, but the important thing is that the impression is corrected and explained when this is in public.

    So I’m not willing to say that something that just has the appearance of being drunk is automatically wrong.

    Even when they look the same though, the fruit of the Holy Spirit and the fruit of being drunk on alcohol are completely different. One gives life; the other is totally destructive in the long term.

    I would say that the fruit will show.

    Believers should seek Jesus, not an experience. They may have experiences, but the result ought to be a growing walk with Jesus, complete with fruit of the Spirit. If a believer after a while realises that this isn’t happenning then they would do well to ask God what needs to change – maybe their church, their teacher, their commitments – God will show them because He is faithful.

  15. I’m sure we all know what I meant about Christ as our example. There were all sorts of accusations made about him, I know, but my point is, he didn’t manifest himself as a fool.

  16. Thought for the day on false teachers –

    “A false representation of God is more damaging than a true display of sin.”

    The danger is, when you constantly mix the genuine with the counterfeit it blurs the lines of sound doctrine and “anaesthetises” the flock from having discernment.

  17. “but my point is, he didn’t manifest himself as a fool.”

    True.

    But what if they are fools, and are just being authentic? 🙂

    God gives people over to what they want. If people want an experience, and that is not of Him, then that’s what they will get. If they really want Him, and the experience is empty or false, then eventually their hunger will take them elsewhere.

    When I read what Crowder wrote, I find it empty of the kind of life that Paul wrote of in his letters. The teaching is misleading people into thinking that being continually in this intoxicated state is what God wants for them; we reject that because its not the model Jesus set.

    I think that God will still reach people through this though, because He uses everything – I just think that those He really reaches will ultimately move on.

    People can have one part of the revelation of Christ, even a very small bit, surrounded by falsehood, but God can use that mustard seed when it finds the right heart. This seems to be the normal way of things.

    Re discernment – I don’t think many people want to bother with it much anyway. It requires that we disturb our lives at times. (Like changing/leaving churches even when you like the people.) I didn’t try in the past. God kind of had to nudge me for a long time. Many people just adhere to particular teachers without ever trying to work things through for themselves. People put doctrine over love, when Jesus showed us that doctrine and religion should never be put before love. (Correct application of doctrine will agree with love, I think.)

    The consequence in my life, as is probably obvious to anyone who has been reading my comments for a while, is that I don’t trust any teacher automatically any more.

    I can’t step out of a movement where I know I was taught false doctrines, and where I was encouraged to trust their revelations over anything I thought, into another place where I just trust another teacher. Whether that teacher is Crowder, Bevere, MacArthur, Jacobsen or even Dallas Willard. All I can do is weigh up what they say against my somewhat inadequate understanding of scripture and trust that the Holy Spirit will show me what I actually need to know at the time.

    The only hope I have is the same as anyone mislead by Crowder into seeking a life of ‘intoxication’ has – and that is that our real hunger to walk with Jesus will lead us out into truth. Plus He is with us wherever we are at the time; we just need to listen to Him more than men with their agendas.

    In the mean time, if we can all ask the Holy Spirit to enable us to walk in love towards God and one another, then the damage perhaps will be minimised, and God’s outworking of love may even light up otherwise dark places. Which would include parts of my life where I struggle, as much as anyone in an environment with a lot of false teaching.

    I disagree with Crowder. I stil trust God to work through it all and even to save people within the movement, in order to bring them out.

    I think its important to make our misgivings clear. I don’t think telling people what they should do works though – only the Holy Spirit can convict or disturb from within, to cause that eventual turning.

  18. RP: “The whole of our salvation miraculously preserves free will – it is so contrary to that to teach that we should ask any spirit to take us over, and that is just not how the Holy Spirit works. He may nudge, prompt, teach, anoint, reveal – but nothing in scripture that I know of says that He overrides our free will.”

    Agreed, but how God works these things is beyond our ken.

    Rom 9:14ff What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,”I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

    Many have tripped over these things.

    But in relation to Ford’s ministries…..

    It’s simply not for us to say that someone is not saved. We may draw back from something or not get involved because we think it dubious to say the least, but that final judgment is simply not ours to make.

    It seems to me it is open for us to act on the basis that someone is a Christian, saved, whatever… As Teddy noted we can call out poor teaching as much as we want, but in an eternal sense again it is not our responsibility to make that call.

    In terms of the drunkeness etc, it seems not much has changed in the last 30 years, just a further stretching of the lacky band, and more and more re-drawings of the line of what is acceptable, edifying etc.

    Don’t like the drunkenness thing at all.

    RP is right to draw the distinction on possession by the Holy Spirit – doesn’t happen. Another way to think of it is in terms of “losing control” to the Spirit.

    Can’t see that that’s right either in the sense that my reading of Scripture is that one of the things God wants to see in us is self control being a fruit of the Spirit as contrasted to drunkenness, which is an act of the sinful nature – see Gal 5.

    Further God created us for relationship in which we are full participants through our decision to be part of that – that statement in no way discounts or diminishes the fact that the reason we can make that choice flows from what Jesus has done for us. But our primary raison d’etre is to – see the Westminster Sorter Catechism

    Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
    A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God,[1] and to enjoy him forever.

    These exhortations to experience etc I see as addiction which is not relationship at all – but as RP highlighted in her reflections on possession – another word for slavery.

    The whole covering/apostolic thing seems to function in two ways – setting up a gateway or conduit to control the prohibited/addictive substances to ensure the subjects remain addicted and by extension to control the whole thing.

    Perhaps that is a bit extreme, but I think that is true of a lot of human behaviours.

    In this case Ford walks out, and the joy/drunkenness/Spirit goes with him.

    I’m a fan of the curtain being torn from the top down, where we all have access to God, which is not dependent on another person.

    Something that God has made freely available to us all, and not as part of some apostolic/doctrinal/dnominational/cult of personality based drip feed.

    Eph 1

    Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will — to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

    In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

  19. Teddy said “Does anyone hear “cult” alarms going off here?”

    I’d have to say that I do, and I wouldnt normally use that term to describe other churches, or even the fringe charismatic practices.

    Matt saying that he can see into the hearts and minds of the congregation… telling them off for their spiritual condition… walking out mid-sermon and saying that the glory-cloud (God) walked out with him…. claiming to be an apostle… allowing himself the freedom to walk-out and be intoxicated during sermons, while telling parisioners off for coming late and disturbing the service with their children. Claiming other churches and communities are demonically inspired (“seeker-sensitive devil”, “websites run by demonically inspired people”) Portraying criticism of himself as of the devil – “I have wasted enough time talking to devils about it”

    Matts “Christian Repentagram” video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRzasJCBOTA also is a concern to me, but not for the reason he wants it to be. He wants Christians to get all worked up about the use of a Pentegram in the video. But if I have got his garbled and mixed up message right he is saying that Christians are over-emphasising repentance.

    Replace the orange-juice with Kool-Aid and you would have another very similar cult-community. In either case I wouldnt advise people to drink from this.

  20. “Today’s church is becoming a modern New Age Supermarket where pleasurable and hedonistic “god experiences” are handed out like fresh fruit. “We must examine the fruit”, they say – it is fine as long as the fruit is good. Well, yes I agree the fruit is good. If sin were not pleasurable it would not tempt us. It is good to look at, it is good to hold, but should you be unfortunate enough to eat this New Age fruit- it will kill you.” – Deception Bytes

  21. what is the purpose of man?

    to love God and obey His commandments

    the pentagram didn’t bother me in the video … the almost levitation with all three of them ‘manifesting’ on the floor did.

    That did not glorify God. It glorified something else …

    “Look at us! Aren’t we spiritual???”

    I don’t think it’s the devil. He’s just not that obvious.

  22. I haven’t watched the video yet.

    I’d hardly call an experience ‘fruit’, which is what the Deception Bytes quote seems to imply people think fruit is. Don’t think I’m talking about an experience, when I say that the fruit will show.

    Some kind of fruit will be the end result of Ford’s ministry.

    If we see people coming out having been hurt, screwed up or spiritually abused, then there’s the bad fruit. (If Matt keeps walking out on them that might not take long.) If we see people loving others, and loving Jesus – maturing as Christians in their character and actions, not just ‘intoxication’ – then we have good fruit.

    Right now, based on what I’ve read of Crowder, and the other doctrines that Ford preaches, and the behaviour Ford speaks of above in the quotes, I’d be with wazza, and wouldn’t be encouraging people to drink from this. But I repeat, Ford reminds me very much of other Pente leaders (not all), with more extreme behavioural characteristics and the alarming claim to read peoples minds. The latter does have cult-like potential.

    Nonetheless, I still say that God can meet people anywhere at all, in the midst of anything, and if someone is seeking Jesus, and goes to Ford’s meeting, then they may well receive a mustard seed that grows into something good in the long run. It depends upon what/who they are seeking. If they want experience, they will find it. But if they want Jesus, He will find them.

  23. Hi All
    Just a quick hello to say I hope you are all doing well.
    Thanks for the time and space to say a few things. Keep up the good work. It has really benefited me in that I can now better understand how others like yourselves think and see things.
    Kindest regards
    and lots of love.
    Franc

  24. So you have walked away from the nonsense, Franc?

    Find a church, probably best not pentecostal, sit down with a minister (I can recommend one) and go verse by verse through certain teachings and weigh them up against your experience. You will find love and care beyond anything offered up to this point.

  25. More from the Ford:

    Matt’s Back! Sydney Explodes in the Glory.

    Hey everyone, thanks so much for your prayers. The latest blood tests today have come back ALL CLEAR 100% normal, which is amazing. Yesterday some of the levels were incredibly high, dangerously high. I feel like a pin cushion, my arms are all bruised and purple, I hate needles LOL. All bleeding inside has stopped!

    Last night I ministered till about 1am, and it was amazing! Thick golden honey glory smacked the room and the flesh off of people, LOL, yee haw! I have 4 more nights of meetings here, before flying back to Brisbane on Tues to do the Glory School.

    The Sydney venue is at 58 Cheryl Court Newport NSW 2106 Meetings start at 7pm with a bit of a Love Feast together. Last night a buddhist dude encountered Jesus, sweeeeeeet!

    Big Buttery Blissed out Blessings

    Matt

  26. “…Sydney Explodes in the Glory…”

    Last time I looked, Sydney was still here, fortunately. Not sure that having the flesh smacked off me sounds too appealing either.

    Still – cool if a Buddhist guy actually did encounter God – or even if he’s genuinely seeking.

    Really, we should pray that people do find Jesus in this, even if they eventually move on into something other than ‘intoxication’. These guys are quite loud and will attract people, and they aren’t going to disappear in a hurry, I think.

  27. Well. The louder we amplify that scream, the more obvious people will hear and see through them. A previous e-mail someone sent me to my hotmail account which I filed to see:

    Memo from Matt
    Hey all you beautiful people,

    Glory greetings from Sydney! We had a wonderful meeting last night, the glory was sooo thick and gooey it made getting up stairs almost impossible :0 We have 4 nights to go, oh my goodness 🙂

    As I got off the plane yesterday my Dr called regarding blood tests I had on Tuesday. He ordered me straight too the nearest hospital, as it revealed bleeding internally and something was making my pancreas a bit upset. After 5 hours in Emergency and a stack of tests, I was allowed to leave so I could minister last night. I had a lot of abdominal pain and was feeling rather off. This morning however, SHABBA DONKEY, I feel good! And the latest blood tests are 100% NORMAL, Yeah Jesus. I will be having another ultra sound when I get back into Brisbane on Tuesday, which I know will confirm a healed pancreas thingy. I forgot I had a pancreas till it got a bit cranky, those little suckers hurt.

    A bit thanks to all who rallied in prayer and stormed for me. I was so whacked.. aka drunk in the Spirit at the hospital that they kept asking what I was on, as I couldn’t stop laughing, LOL Jesus makes people happy, permanently!

    This Sunday at the Wine Barrel, my mate Levin will be ministering while I am in Sydney. He is madly in love with Jesus, and bounces like Tigger in the glory, it is so funny to watch.

    The Sydney meetings are at 58 Cheryl Cres NEWPORT, call 1300 911 092 if ya get lost! Thurs to Monday night 7pm, come join us for a light snacky thing first, hmm Love Feast.

    I feel a Thus Sayeth the Lord coming on…. FFFFFIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Oh dat was good!

    Love, Bliss and Blessings

    Matt

  28. From where I live (Newport), the view is uninterupted by any so-called “glory cloud”. Great view of the ocean though, a true testament to God’s glory.

  29. Mmmm – very nice, Teddy!

    Maybe the inspiring atmosphere of the ocean is why so many start up churches seem to be historically attracted to the coast line.

  30. In fact, you really are right – when you just sit down and contemplate nature, the ocean, magnificent scenery – what more do we need to really sense the Glory of God?

  31. With a good set of binoculars , we could let you know when that cloud is hanging over Franc’s place (address revealed by Matt’s post). I wonder if it’s fire by night and cloud by day? 🙂

  32. Well, Bull, if its a reference to joy in all things, then yes! But I have to say I don’t have that fruit of the spirit at all times yet. Am extremely impressed when I do see that joy in someone’s life, when they are dealing with difficult issues and somehow have His peace and joy throughout, at another level.

    I know I’ve sidetracked here.

  33. Probably shouldn’t do that, but my real impression is very cartoony unfortunately.

    Mind you those old Bugs Bunny Show cartoons are my absolute fave

  34. BTW – today I’ve been diagnosed with epidemic vertigo – my sense of balance has been paralysed for a while. It’s a similar effect to having a few too many drinks. Maybe the doctor is wrong, and I’m having a visitation!

    I can tell you, wandering around all day like this is pretty wierd, but its even wierder when the whole room starts spinning before you even get out of bed in the morning. I’d fit in well with Ford’s mob right now.

  35. Actually its reminded me that one of the symptoms of drunkenness is throwing up – which is a result, apparently, of the nausea caused by an impaired balance system. Fortunately Ford’s group don’t seem to have been visited by that particular symptom!

  36. Ah, I remember the bucket ministry from the old, old days. There was the occasional “throw up the demon” deliverance going on. So crazy!

  37. But hey. some of you might remember the Woody Woodpecker Show!!
    Ha-ha-ha-HA-HA!! Ha-ha-ha-HA-HA!! Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

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