Getting Jiggy-Ziggy for Jesus (Tranced Out For Jesus?)

Umm… Is this what you would call worship or the next type of relevant ‘church’ setting?

http://www.ziggybeats.com/

This is the most interesting one…


60 thoughts on “Getting Jiggy-Ziggy for Jesus (Tranced Out For Jesus?)

  1. Does anyone find it… A bit too hedonistic?
    I’m all mixed up about this.

    Everyone’s looking their best. Dressed to impress. These look like a million dollar productions. If this is a new way churches would be heading, how would this be affective in evangelism?

    I liked the idea of the last song above telling the story of the prodigal son. Maybe in that form?

  2. i loved that actor as Jesus, (in the 3rd clip). That’s great, i remember a young guy i knew was playing some Christian house and the song repeated over and over “and God said, let there be light” it was quite a good song actually. But is was funny as this guy wasnt born again or practising christian, i think he might have been Catholic as a youngster.

  3. Lol. I see what you mean. I suppose my outlook on what church should be in a worship environment is encouraging people in love to hold onto gospel truths by worshiping God together.

    I think I found the so-called worshipers enjoying the light shows and the dazzling fiery displays. Geoff Bullock once warned the church about worshiping the arts more then using the arts to facilitate or to fuel people to worship. This to me, looked like a breach of that warning.

    That, and people looking as though they can only worship God as long as they looked good, felt good and danced good. Maybe I’m getting a bit too conservative.

  4. I think its a youth thing, dance music. I used to hate dance music and rap, some might be crap, im not into it myself but young people do enjoy it. And they like dancing. My kids love it and im used to it now, im more into rock

    S & P the audience, all dressed in white, and looking a little “beautiful” did make me think of a science fiction movie. what country was this, america?

  5. My guess would be England – far more radical. I didn’t think too much about the white, I know these things need fairly strict clothing rules (so as not to be overly provocative) – all wearing white (maybe only on one occassion??) might add a bit of fun.

    My firts thoughts were that I hope that a minority don’t spoil it by bringing drugs. And I found the ziggy beats name implanted in the music a little off putting, but overall would rather enjoy dancing here than in a nightclub.

  6. I put this up because I wasn’t sure what I was feeling about this. I wanted to explore the ‘niggles’ I was getting and see if others were feeling or seeing something about this.

    I think one thing that is really dangerous about this culture is the sub-wolf culture. Before my dad became a Christian – he used to know young blokes his age who would go to fun Christian events and prey on young women. He was never involved, but the guys told him how to get the girls they wanted. The women of course had no voice if they were exploited by the blokes. The fact that they were taken advantage of sexually means they have no voice because they’ll feel condemned by the church.

    The upcoming young church culture is a vibrant sexual culture, open to these types of predators. Nothing is wrong with sexuality, I’m just observing the blurred lines here.

    You see, obviously that guy who was with that girl has good raps with leadership. He wouldn’t have taken advantage of her. He’s too godly to do that. Even though she looked great dancing for God, and he did too, it was her fault for letting him get too close to him. And that girl over there too.

    Wouldn’t you think the politics of the night scenes are hitting the church with this kind of environment? While the church is embracing the culture, how can it separate the strings attached with it?

    We call bible colleges bridal colleges. Don’t you think worship dance music will kind of promote guy-girl relationships to a more intense level. And with that number of Christians dancing in a venue that big, how can young women be protected?

  7. yeah, i think music is good, dance music is a cultural thing. When George Harrison release “My Sweet Lord” us young Catholics went crazy for it. Dont get me started on Jesus Crhist Superstar. Our school took us…

  8. OK, have read the comments – too interesting not to look at the clips. Going to watch them now.

  9. I get your point S&P. Ive heard large churches are places to meet women too. There are alot of women in church, who are nice and loving, ergo, easy to con. I think if a man is a predator, he will go anywhere to get women. I think women should learn more about men and know they are commonly after one thing. Dont trust anyone, anywhere….

    When i was young we had Christian socials but they were always supervised quite strictly. You can only warn them. With raves and dance music it is a dance culture too. Alot of kids like to dance for hours, it is good to get that energy out somehow

  10. OK – well, I enjoyed that. I’d put it on while I’m doing stuff around the house, until I got sick of the dance beat.

    Have to confess – I love dance music. When I was 21 and it was first being played on Australian radio, I decided I didn’t like it at all. Then I went to the UK for 8 months, and heard nothing else but dance music on the radio for the entire time. Came back with completely changed taste in music. Have enjoyed it ever since (OK, there are good songs and boring ones, like in any genre).

    On my return, I found church music pretty so so, especially the so-called ‘up’ music that was supposed to be modern and get us into the right mood for the ‘real’ worship. Mind you, I always loved the ‘real’ worship music. If this sort of stuff had been around back then, I would have probably been right into it without thinking too hard about it – and I would have invited friends, since I had some who were into the club scene, who would definitely have come.

    ‘I don’t think there is a ‘should’ or ‘shouldn’t’ with this one. Real worship always takes place in the heart. God can see what each dancer/worshipper is really doing. If their hearts desire Him, they can use this as an expression of that. If they desire nothing more than a good time in a context where the lyrics etc give them no qualms of conscience, then they have an opportunity here. When I was young, I could only access this kind of thing by going to nightclubs where there were drugs etc. Even so, taking something was up to you, and I didn’t have a problem saying no. Neither did my other Christian friends.

    I am sure that this kind of scene is not all good. People will use it for their own purposes. But it does give the opportunity for young people to enjoy a dance in a context where the lyrics have some scriptural content which could lead to them thinking upon it, and where they are far more likely to meet possible partners who are actually Christian. (Not that you can hear anyone to get to know them at this kind of thing.) Also, you can have a pretty good time without a partner, on your own or in a group at a mass event like these.

    Liked the prodigal son one. That could even be an evangelistic tool for some.

    As has been pointed out already, in terms of predatory behaviour, churches are already a place where some men go to find women. Two of the worst predators I knew were in two different home groups I went to. Both were definitely ‘wolves’. I knew another guy who was much nicer, but definitely enjoyed the benefits of having a harem of women following him around at church. So I don’t think this kind of event is going to cause that kind of thing – it already happens.

    People who want to follow God will guard their hearts and worship Him in truth. Others, with other agendas, will pursue those whatever the context.

  11. Forgot to say – I also found the references to ‘trance form your mind with ziggy beats’ a bit unhelpful. I know a bit self reference in songs is common these days, but this is the main thing that I think is unsuitable in the context of ‘worship’.

  12. I would think that the culture of looking in image and in dance will also take the central point of worship.

    Western youth these days, as noted by the media, tolerate differences but are incredibly selfish. I can’t help but see this kind of music culture endorsing more self-absorption.

    How self absorbed should worship be until enough is enough? We can easily say ‘it’s up to the individual’, but we’re talking about church youth WANTING to have this kind of environment. I see slippery slope into Hedonism fast. Worshiping God in ultimate comfort and pleasure, where you and your surroundings make you feel angelic.

    That is the atmosphere some clubs aim for: Youth take photo at club, looking their angelic best, posing, sensational light shows and sexy people behind them, image now floating on Facebook.

  13. I’m taking a divergent view.

    It see this as a group of Christians producing a particular musical genre rather a group that is producing Christian ‘worship’ music.

    The lyrics, melody and rhythm of trance are fairly repetitive and most of the time not all that meaningful. The style seems to be a deliberate attempt to induce a hypnotic or trance-like state. It’s no wonder that secular dance clubs often combine these sessions with mind-altering drugs. It is an unfortunate play on words from Roman’s where were are told to transform our minds in a much deeper sense.

    Similarly, the Bible speaks of a more holistic involvement of our being involving hearts, minds, soul and spirit. Meditation is not simply an altered mental state but we are asked to meditate on God’s word.

    Anyway if these events allow believers to enjoy their music in a ‘safer’ environment then it is a good thing.

  14. good point RE, it is like meditation of the emotions than the mind. Also one gets an endorphin rush from dancing. Its a bit fleshly but just youth trying to enjoy themselves in an innocent way i guess. But i agree meditating on the word should be a priority.

  15. I’m not quite sure if I’ve done an article on it, but does anyone remember ‘Ekstasis Worship’, Pat King Hole style?

    She encourages new age trance style music. When Latter Rainers talk about ‘trance’, they often play on the ideal of being ‘tranced-out’ like Peter was when he went into that vision about the animal sheet.

    I think that is what this ‘Ziggy’ plays with alongside Matt Ford.

  16. S&P remarked:

    “they often play on the ideal of being ‘tranced-out’ like Peter was when he went into that vision about the animal sheet.”

    Peter received this vision as he began the great ministry to the Gentiles. God was specifically telling him that those he ministered to were no longer under the Law. Not a trance at all.

  17. I dont mind people dancing to dance/tec music and wouldnt want it be labelled christian. It like saying that their is christian basketball or making a cake in a christian way.

  18. RE: “Peter received this vision as he began the great ministry to the Gentiles. God was specifically telling him that those he ministered to were no longer under the Law. Not a trance at all.”

    Some trancelations say Peter entered into a trance. Specifically in the Latter Rain movement, Joyner and the Elijah List alongside Pat King, major on Peter’s trance and promote that we all can enter trances. They are placed on a higher level of infallibility because Father Rick Joyner in the Final Quest says so (as this book seemed to play a major role in influencing the current Charismatic movement’s way of thinking).

    I will write out what he says about trance in his ‘infallible’ Final Quest book.

  19. This discussion is entranceing. Trances like trance music are by no means unique to the Christian tradition. I wonder if someone can trance-late to me the definition of a Christian trance.

  20. On a lighter note not having read thru all the posts in detail or looked at the vids, do you know the old Baptist joke:

    You know what the problem with sex is don’t you?

    It might lead to dancing.

  21. First I’ll go through what he says about the higher and more infallible levels of prophetic revelation.

    RICK JOYNER’S LEVELS

    Starting with Level 1:

    “There are many levels of prophetic revelation… The beginning levels include prophetic “impressions”. These are genuine revelations. They can be extraordinary specific and accurate when interpreted by those who are experienced and sensitive to them. However, it is on this level that our “revelations” can be affected by our own feelings, prejudices, and doctrines. I have therefore resolved not to use such expressions as “thus saith the Lord” with any revelations on this level. …” – Rick Joyner, The Final Quest, pg 9

    Now Level 2:

    “The next level of revelation is conscious sense of the presence of the Lord, or the anointing of the Holy Spirit, which gives special illumination to our minds. This often comes when I am writing, or speaking, and it gives me much greater confidence in the importance or accuracy of what I am saying.”

    I believe that this was probably experienced by the apostles as they wrote the New Testament epistles. This will give us great confidence, but it is still a level where we can still be influenced by our prejudices, doctrines, etc. This is why I believe, in certain matters, Paul would say that he was giving his opinion, but that he thought he had [the agreement of] the Spirit of the Lord. …” – Rick Joyner, The Final Quest, pg 10

    Level 3:

    “Open visions” occur on a higher level than impressions; they tend to give us more clarity than we may have even when we feel the conscious presence of the Lord, or the anointing. Open visions are external, and are viewed with the clarity of a movie screen. Because that there is far less possibility of mixture in revelations that come this way.” – Rick Joyner, The Final Quest, pg 10

    Trance is Level 5 and is the highest level:

    “Another higher level prophetic experience is a trance, such as Peter had when he was first instructed to go to the house of Cornelius and preach the gospel to the Gentiles for the first time, and such as Paul had when he prayed in the temple in Acts 22. Trances were a common experience of the biblical prophets. Trances are like dreaming when you are awake. Instead of just seeing a “screen” like in an open vision, you feel like you are in the movie, that you are actually there in a strange way. Trances can range from those that are rather mild, so that you are still conscious of your physical surroundings, and can even still interact with them, to those where you feel like you are literally in the place of the vision. This seems to be what Ezekiel experienced rather frequently, and what John probably experienced when he had the visions recorded in the book of Revelation.” – Rick Joyner, The Final Quest, pg 9

    I’ll throw this in too:

    The Infallible Vision not Infallible but Infallible

    “The visions contained in this book all began with a dream. Some of it came under a very intense sense of the presence of the Lord, but the overwhelming majority was received in some level of a trance.” – Rick Joyner, The Final Quest, pg 9

    And this:

    “I was encouraged by some to write this as an allegory, in third person like The Pilgrim’s Progress, bit I decided against it first for several reasons. First, I feel that some would have taken this to be the result of my own creativity, and that would have been wrong. I would like to be this creative, but I’m not.

    Another reason was that I FELT that I could be much more accurate if I related it just as I received it, and I did my best to convey these experiences just the way that they were received. However, I consider my memory of details to be one of my greatest weaknesses. At times I have questioned my own memory for certain details in this vision, and I think that you should therefore have the liberty to do the same. I think that this is right with any such messages. Only the Scriptures deserve to be considered infallible. As you read, I pray that the Holy Spirit will lead you to truth, and separate any chaff that may be present from the wheat.” – Rick Joyner, The Final Quest, pg 10

    We can discuss the content of the above on a new thread. But considering this book to be the Charismania’s new infallible bible, you can see that trance is the ultimate goal in many of these ministries to receive accurate prophetic words to governments and nations.

    Patricia King promotes ‘trance’. Che Ahn promotes it. Bentley promotes it. As well as infamous Crowder and his hoons Matt Ford, Brandon Barthrp and others.

  22. I agree with Todd here. I wouldn’t want dancing to any style of music to be labelled either Christian or non-Christian.

    The fact is that music has been enjoyed by people over the entire history of the human race, and yes, it is used to enhance emotion.

    I don’t necessarily see much difference between this style of music and any other style that has historically been used to heighten an emotional or psychological state.

    Churches in the past used the amazing acoustics of the old cathedrals to enhance the sound of choirs – it must have sounded like heaven. People listening may have felt just as transported. The people singing may have found themselves experiencing an ecstatic emotional state. If people are participating in singing, this can happen with no instruments at all other than the human voice. This came to be regarded as Christian music, but there is no guarantee that the people were worshipping in their hearts or not.

    Every time an instrument was introduced, it seemed to be regarded as ‘from the devil’ and ‘of the flesh’. Our contemporary worship music was once controversial. So was raising hands in worship, and using your body to express how you felt in worship.

    To me, this looks more like people having a party rather than worshipping, but there could be elements of real worship in this, as well as a party. Just as many churches seem to combine the two.

    To me, the main use of this is to enable Christians who enjoy dance music, a space where they can enjoy it free from offensive lyrics, and in company that is more likely to share their faith than what they will find in mainstream clubs – if they are single and looking for a partner, they are more likely to meet someone Christian.

    Hopefully its drug free. However – there might be fringe elements.

    I just think that if we were to go to the extreme of saying that this is wrong because it is fleshly, then to be consistent, and not hypocritical, what do we cut out of our churches? Do we all gravite towards an austerity where the flesh is denied completely? That can be just as fleshly when it focuses on that which it denies.

    Re the physicality: when I went to C3OF when I was young, some women dressed up as provocatively as they could regardless of church context, and both young men and young women were looking for partners. Some of them slept around within the church. What I’m saying is that this will happen regardless, and depends upon the people more than the music event. Large church gatherings were just as much a chance for anyone who wanted to, to try to draw attention to themselves, rather than worship God. Some people did try to impress others, particularly leaders, with their degree of worship and full on commitment as well. Others were completely genuine. They were all in different places.

    True worship is in the heart. This can happen anywhere. This music might express some things some Christians can identify with – the reaching out in the first song for example, which could be like the psalms where the psalmist calls on God to hear his prayer.

    In the first song, I found the party images contrasted strongly with the lyrics, so I don’t think this is done as well as it could be, if it really was for worship purposes. I think its more a way of enjoying dance music in a context that doesn’t compromise their faith, than worship. But that doesn’t preclude using this style of thing for worship purposes.

  23. “Some people did try to impress others, particularly leaders, ” – RP

    Oops. This came out wrong. I meant that some people tried to impress leaders, not that leaders tried particularly hard to impress others. Some people were ladder climbing.

    This happens in many churches and businesses, so I’m not having a go at anyone with the comment. It’s just an observation about the normal mix of human behaviour.

  24. With worship music, Pat King has gone to further lengths in ‘ectasis worship’ for people to enter into the very being of God, becoming one with the word and to be tranced out by the word, by endorsing a dodgy worship director onto her leadership panel. If you go to her website, http://www.extremeprophetic.com/ , the guy on the far right with the blue banner is him.

    This is the ‘trance’ worship music that I am really seeing hear and not club ‘trance’ music as much (even though that could be another motive).

    Here’s Pat King promoting Caleb Brundidge’s ‘Club Mysterio’ ekstasis worship ministry.

    DJ Caleb: “Do this with me… Think of ECSTASY!” ~eyes light up~

    Here’s New Age trance/ekstasis:

    Heading:
    “EKSTASIS – an ecstatic dance experience”

    Here what the Luna is saying:

    “So the name ekstasis has the meaning of moving beyond’s one’s self.”

    “You are seeing the process of the Kundalini dance, which is being created by Layola Ontario.

    “We are bringing the power back to ourselves.”

    Solace says:

    “Music takes people deeper.”

    Luna:

    “Altered states… through… humans… with repetitive rhythms…”

    Solace:
    “And in that state of wholeness, we can bring ourselves into a new state of realisation.”

    What does the secular trance have in common with New Age trance and now with American Christian Trance?

    They all seem to have the same creepy agenda.

  25. The Kundalini ‘spirit’ is alive among the charismatic circuit. Critics observed this spirit’s behaviour before, I think, these video’s were uploaded to the internet.

    At these New Age meetings, they too have fascination’s with portals and such supernatural encounters, altered states and bodily transformations. This is very much like the Latter Rain movement is heading. They want to believe that either their generation or the one to come will operate in a manifestation or super-fused superhuman God-man way.

    That being, they become Christ (one with the Word) in these last days. They will be the true sons of God bringing Christ’s church into true dominance over earthly super-powers.

  26. Does seem a little weird.

    Maybe, my point is that the medium or mode is not either christian or non christian but the motives should be glorify God and worship him.

    Anybody can be caught in the music rather than the God who we worship. Also, I am not saying that you shouldnt enjoy worship music but it shouldnt be the main focus.

  27. I totally agree with you Todd. It seems clear that New Age worship the music in the above. The world in general exalts it and sees it as an escape or rush.

    If the intention of this music is for that reason, i think the motives are tied to the genre no matter which we you look at it. But in saying that, that could have happened with Christian rock, which ended up not being so.

    I want to re-quote myself on what I said above.

    “Geoff Bullock once warned the church about worshiping the arts more then using the arts to facilitate or to fuel people to worship. This to me, looked like a breach of that warning.”

    I really think and feel that music in some churches are more worshiped or praised then God and it will seriously start taking it’s toll in more ways then one in Australia.

  28. Interesting to note that alot of Hymns that had it is origins in drinking songs. The music stayed the same but the words were changed.

    Also, that drums had it origins in pagan worship.

    So what, if Dance music has it origins in drug and new age culture.

    I cant see myself worshipping to dance music but that shouldnt stop other christians making music relevant to next generation.

  29. Todd commented:

    “I cant see myself worshipping to dance music but that shouldnt stop other christians making music relevant to next generation.”

    I don’t think anyone has specifically said that they shouldn’t make this kind of music. My question is whether you can call it liturgical music. The genre is amoral and it will depend on how it is applied.

  30. Well, my kids wouldnt go to that sort of thing, they would think it was a bit naff. If they wanted to hear Christian music or hymns they would go to church. They prefer more secular music, especially one that hear alot of Christian music when they were young. The things is young people love music. They especially like dance, hip hop and the like.

    Are churches using the secular type music to “get them interested” you betcha they are.

  31. Sure RE,

    Worship is more than words but our all of our being. Sometimes word can not express the love and awe we have in Christ for the Father.

    As father Bob said on 7.30 on channel 10, is that the church hits people in the head but doesnt hit the heart)emotions.

  32. BTW, the clip above is from the movie Jesus of Nazareth (on utube) from chapter 10 onwards is good if you want to start from John….saying “repent” repent

  33. “Interesting to note that alot of Hymns that had it is origins in drinking songs. The music stayed the same but the words were changed.”

    Ha! That line is always used when someone has a gripe about Christian music going worldly. Someone said this to me today as well on this issue.

  34. What I am saying is that:

    Trance is used by the world to:
    Gain ecstatic pleasure through hypnotic music, used to escape and taking oneself beyond themselves.

    Trance is used by the New Age Movement to:
    Gain ecstatic pleasure through hypnotic music, used to escape and taking oneself beyond themselves.

    Trance is used by some of the Church to:
    Gain ecstatic pleasure through hypnotic music, used to escape and taking oneself beyond themselves.

    Non-believers make this clear with their music.
    Solace and Luna make this clear with their music.
    DJ Caleb and Pat King make this clear with their music – this is probably the most dangerous.

    To me, Trance music seems designed with a specific goal in mind. I hope it can be redefined like Rock and Roll was.

    But if Christian’s want to use this form of media for worship, I really hope they can redefine it’s purpose in Christian Culture and in the worldly culture. And I hope beyond hope that they aware of it’s worldly fingerprints and intentions.

  35. I agree with RE that the genre is amoral. It can be used for good or bad, or can just be a neutral pleasure.

    If a Christian’s conscience leads them not to participate, then they shouldn’t. Likewise if they discern something spiritually off about the event. Others have the freedom to participate without compromising their faith. Just because I go to a pub for a drink doesn’t make me an alcoholic.

    It’s not redefining worship if people don’t have to worship in this style, and if its really just a chance to have a dance with some Christian lyrics. Besides, since worship is what we do with our entire lives, how can we limit it to particular styles of expression? Things have always changed as our culture does.

    The trance issue is heightened when drugs are used. Without drugs, these people aren’t going to get into the state that they do elsewhere.

    To dance for fun, to enjoy the music, and to escape with the music – is only temporary, for a few hours. I don’t think there is anything in scripture that prevents us from doing this. There will be other times, when Christians face persecution and difficulty, when they won’t be able to do these things.

    Music on its own has no intention. The people who create it or participate in it do.

  36. “Music on its own has no intention. The people who create it or participate in it do.”

    Interesting point RP.

  37. i agree RP, music is a pleasure given to us by God. Trance and Dance have been popular for ages in the world. I know non-Christians that listen to Christian trance. Its a cultural thing. THere will always be the few that will use anything to hook up with girls ie: the pubs and clubs. Mostly, like The Big Day Out etc, young people like to hang out and listen to good music. I just wish i didnt see that Jesus of Nazareth movie clip cause now im watching it again on utube and its taking up all the memory 🙂

  38. you know whats funny, i showed one of my kids this clip and they “loved” it, i didnt explain it, i just said take a look at this, whatda think. They liked it….so, there you go.

    btw, both kids being brought up christian in the young years

  39. That’s great MJ. I think its always tempting to do a blind test on your kids, even when you know its a bit silly. For instance, I had the clips on when my kids were in the room – all I got were complaints saying, ‘Turn it down, Mum – its too loud!’. It was up a bit loud. They prefer Dora the Explorer. 🙂

  40. I know this is off-topic, but the other night I prayed with my almost-6 year old, which he likes before bed, and I suggested to him, as I’ve done sometimes before, that he can pray by himself if he wants to – he can talk to God any time. He said he wanted to, but he felt that he wasn’t good enough to pray to God. Oh boy. Didn’t expect that so soon. Anyway, I tried to explain what Jesus had done for us on the Cross, to let us pray to God directly, but struggled to find a way to explain it clearly to such a young kid.

    Does anyone have any tips on simple terms for a 5 year old?

  41. Oh, what a cutie he is. I would prbably just try and reiterate how God loves us. I always liked the part in the ntestament when the apostles get upset when Jesus is with the children….”for theirs is the kingdom of heaven”

    In primary school we were taught about the love of Christ mostly then in high school more um “meaty” stuff. But not alot. It was up to our parents and church was a place to worship (which i always loved) i was in the school choir (primary school) i really enjoyed singing hymns.

    its also good i think to pray for their own circumstances (help me to love my brother) for example. I feel for you RP, its not always easy. I had one very cheeky one and one quiet one so…

  42. Other interesting questions. Is corporate worship qualitatively different from individual worship? How are the more artistic expressions of ‘worship’ different from acts of service and sacrifice? Can the content of worship exist separately from the emotional aspect or vice versa? Can the nice feelings that are generated by a pleasant aesthetic experience (e.g. uplifting hymn, nice sunset) be mistaken for giving God worth? In the midst of great distress, pain and difficulty is it possible to still worship God with our heart, mind, soul and spirit?

  43. RP: “Does anyone have any tips on simple terms for a 5 year old?”

    But on some soothing trance music for your five year old as he is falling asleep, with these lyrics constantly repeated:

    “Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.”

  44. (Five hours later)

    “… Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you.

    Jesus always loves you- loves you loves you
    Always loves you – loves you – loves you…”

  45. I must show my other child to see what the consensus of young Christian adults and music. Funny thing the one i showed it to didnt enjoy the Jesus bit as much…but they sort of got into it. They loved the repeat of “He was lost and now is found” A modern version of Amazing Grace perhaps.

  46. That’s annoying, I can’t seem to buy any ziggybeats music on iTunes. Guess I’ll just have to listen on uTube. I’m not big into trance but I like it occasionaly, and as long as I’m listening I’d rather it be Christian. I’m not doing anything immoral while I listen either, honest, just working on my computer. I’ll agree I probably wouldn’t want it in church though, if only so the service moves a bit quicker but as a song to relax to I think its good (well the first one is I haven’t checked the others out), if others want to do hedonisitc things listeing to it I guess thats there problem.

  47. yeah, thats right phoenix7 and a good song is a good song, one of my kids loved it cause they love music (both my kids are muscians) they thought it was cool

  48. S&P – comments like the ‘Danna Bullo’ one are typically spam. When they pass the spam filter, we should delete them, or we’ll just get more and more of them.

    Have a look at past spam, and you’ll see what I mean. They will make a flattering remark, but not about anything specific on the blog, and their name will be a link. They want you to click on the link – its just advertising.

    Critical remarks are genuine. 🙂

  49. Quickly going through this thread, I’ve been reading a bit about Christian hedonism/humanism in today’s church.

    Would this also be an outworking of our Christian hedonistic views?

    I know how to have a good time. But is it possible, this kind of worship style may be a massive stumbling block to the emerging generations?

  50. From John Piper’s Desiring God blog………

    What is Christian Hedonism?

    “A “Christian Hedonist” sounds like a contradiction, doesn’t it? If the term makes you squirm, we understand. But don’t throw this paper away just yet. We’re not heretics (really!). Nor have we invented another prosperity-obsessed theology by twisting the Bible to sanctify our greed or lust. We are simply stating an ancient, orthodox, Biblical truth in a fresh way.

    “All men seek happiness,” says Blaise Pascal. “This is without exception. Whatever different means they employ, they all tend to this end. The cause of some going to war, and of others avoiding it, is the same desire in both, attended with different views. The will never takes the least step but to this object. This is the motive of every action of every man, even of those who hang themselves.” We believe Pascal is right. And, with Pascal, we believe God purposefully designed us to pursue happiness.

    Does seeking your own happiness sound self-centered? Aren’t Christians supposed to seek God, not their own pleasure? To answer this question we need to understand a crucial truth about pleasure-seeking (hedonism): we value most what we delight in most. Pleasure is not God’s competitor, idols are. Pleasure is simply a gauge that measures how valuable someone or something is to us. Pleasure is the measure of our treasure.

    We know this intuitively. If a friend says to you, “I really enjoy being with you,” you wouldn’t accuse him of being self-centered. Why? Because your friend’s delight in you is the evidence that you have great value in his heart. In fact, you’d be dishonored if he didn’t experience any pleasure in your friendship. The same is true of God. If God is the source of our greatest delight then God is our most precious treasure; which makes us radically God-centered and not self-centered. And if we treasure God most, we glorify Him most.

    Does the Bible teach this? Yes. Nowhere in the Bible does God condemn people for longing to be happy. People are condemned for forsaking God and seeking their happiness elsewhere (Jeremiah 2:13). This is the essence of sin. The Bible actually commands us to delight in the Lord (Psalm 37:4). Jesus teaches us to love God more than money because our heart is where our treasure is (Matt. 6:21). Paul wants us to believe that gaining Christ is worth the loss of everything else (Phil 3:8) and the author of Hebrews exhorts us to endure suffering, like Jesus, for the joy set before us (Heb. 12: 1-2). Examine the Scriptures and you’ll see this over and over again.

    Christian Hedonism is not a contradiction after all. It is desiring the vast, ocean-deep pleasures of God more than the mud-puddle pleasures of wealth, power or lust. We’re Christian Hedonists because we believe Psalm 16:11, “You show me the path of life; in Your presence there is fullness of joy, in Your right hand are pleasures for evermore.”

    Join us in this pursuit of satisfaction in God, because God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him.”

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