Houston, Pringle & Pat Mesiti (The Infamous Trinit-eretics)

This is another old article from the old Signposts that Lance posted up. Since Hillsong London invited Pat Mesiti to speak last month, people have expressed interest in me to do some more searching. There are a few old transcripts from both Hillsong and C3 that I will be putting up over the next few months. Feel free to quote them and pass them around. I don’t mind if no one responds to them either. I am posting them up so people can see what is often taught at these churches.

Below is an old  transcript of Pringle introducing Pat Mesiti to speak at Christian City Church in 2006:

Pat Mesiti’s restoration

Monday 04 September, 2006 – 16:55 by Hill$ong Squad in Default

Christian City Church || Oxford Falls || 19, February, 2006 || 6pm Sunday service

Phil Pringle: http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/1902066pm.rm

“I know a lot of you were not in this morning’s service…and I need your attention ….I need your full attention people…I need you to be looking this way ..and listening….thank you very much.

Because this morning I made an announcement – and in last night’s service, that I need to make again and.. it’s a great announcement… a very joyful announcement.

About four-and-a-half years ago …there was an evangelist in this country by the name of Pat Mesiti.

Most of you I think will know of him. Some of you may not.

He had a television program and was regularly conducting crusades where through 500 to1500 people would come to Christ. He was an initiator of many great youth programs, including Youth Alive here in New South Wales.. and accomplished a huge number of things for the nation.. in the realm of evangelism and touching people’s lives with the gospel.

However, four-and-a-half years ago, Pat had a terrible, terrible tumble. A moral collapse which resulted in his marriage breaking.. and.. was a sad moment. He was taken out of ministry and stepped down.

He was an ordained minister in the Assemblies of God and after attempting to retrace.. recover.. and after a year…it seemed it wasn’t going quite how it was anticipated.

So Brian Houston and myself.. who are good friends.. I said, ‘Look. I’ll put my hand up. I’d like to help. And I’ve known Pat forever. And he’s good friends with a lot of the people on this staff.. and has been.. and I thought this’d be great if he came.. and was in our church…and we would seek to see him standing on his feet again.

A number of years ago.. I said to the Lord.. ‘I’m so busy being a pastor, I don’t feel like I’m being a Christian.’

And that just meant I was so busy leading and preaching, doing all the stuff I wanted… I felt like…going and handing out pizzas to the homeless in Hyde Park.. or visiting people in old folks’ homes or reading books… or people in prison.

I’ve done all that.. and used to teach in a school for handicapped children and I go and visit prisons …just tell them to send up a prisoner if they didn’t have a visitor and I’d be there. And they didn’t know me. So when you get to be a pastor, you get a lot of other things going on ..

But He said to me, ‘No you’ve got a church full of people who can do that’……so I pray you do it man…

And He said, ‘No. No. No. What I want you to do is reach out to people that other people can’t reach out to.. And that’s pastors who are having troubled times.

And so I try to do that. And there’s a few.. who.. I have no judgements on men and women who’ve found their life in trouble. Who knows what pressures they’re facing and what things they’ve gone through.. but I do know they need to be recovered and restored.

And there is a pathway for that… repentance… restoration… restitution.. and making things right.

So Pat came….and I said to him, ‘Pat. I want you to do several things. One: turn up to church.’

And even with the shame and the awkwardness and the emotional difficulty of all that, I said, ‘That’s what you’ve gotta do’. Because the church is the best place you can be, rather than a counselling room. Just being in the worship, being in the local church, being involved in some ministry of serving in the House.. all of those things are the best healing processes you will ever find yourself engaged in.. because you’re forced to modify your behaviour and get things right and overcome …and all kinds of things….and relate to people.

And then just [let] the Spirit of God working amongst us..

I believe in the power of the local church. It is the most powerful thing on earth to actually affect all sorts of things in people’s lives.

So Pat did that. And one year after his marriage had broke, he met a lady called Andrea and I was happy to participate in their marriage.. three.. two-and-a-half years ago.. two years ago? Two years ago. And that was a really joyful occasion.

And Pat and Andrea served in the visitors’ lounge, helping us there and have continued to be involved in our church over that time.

And he’s been relating to Greg French, Simon McIntyre, Mark Kelsey and myself over that period of time.

We’ve had times where we’ve needed to say things or help him understand things or whatever.. and Pat has been exemplary in all his ways of handling it.

I have tried this with a number of ministers and leaders over the years and I’ve got to say not without a lot of success.

It’s been unfortunate because people find it difficult.. find it tough to recover.. old steps.

But Pat has really displayed a repentant attitude and a commitment to a pathway that will bring him fully back into that way.

And the ministry team.. we’ve all talked to each other and quite satisfied that he has fulfilled all those obligations.

The Assemblies of God asked him to do three years of restoration. It’s actually been four-and-a-half years now that he has been out of ministry and as I said, we are happy [about] that.

So in the 10 o’clock service this morning, we laid hands on Pat and Andrea and restored them to the ministry that God has called them to. (Applause)

In those services.. well actually, only in the 10 o’clock services, I asked Pat just to share something briefly and he did. And so I said, ‘I want you to share in that service just briefly. But what I really want you to do is preach in our church on Sunday night’.

So I want you to welcome Pat Mesiti as he comes…” (applause/cheering/Mesiti hugs Pringle)

 

Pat Mesiti’s restoration

Monday 04 September, 2006 – 16:55 by Hill$ong Squad in Default

views (725) | rating ooooo(0 votes)

Christian City Church || Oxford Falls || 19, February, 2006 || 6pm Sunday service

 

Phil Pringle: http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/1902066pm.rm

“I know a lot of you were not in this morning’s service…and I need your attention ….I need your full attention people…I need you to be looking this way ..and listening….thank you very much.

Because this morning I made an announcement – and in last night’s service, that I need to make again and.. it’s a great announcement… a very joyful announcement.

About four-and-a-half years ago …there was an evangelist in this country by the name of Pat Mesiti.

Most of you I think will know of him. Some of you may not.

He had a television program and was regularly conducting crusades where through 500 to1500 people would come to Christ. He was an initiator of many great youth programs, including Youth Alive here in New South Wales.. and accomplished a huge number of things for the nation.. in the realm of evangelism and touching people’s lives with the gospel.

However, four-and-a-half years ago, Pat had a terrible, terrible tumble. A moral collapse which resulted in his marriage breaking.. and.. was a sad moment. He was taken out of ministry and stepped down.

He was an ordained minister in the Assemblies of God and after attempting to retrace.. recover.. and after a year…it seemed it wasn’t going quite how it was anticipated.

So Brian Houston and myself.. who are good friends.. I said, ‘Look. I’ll put my hand up. I’d like to help. And I’ve known Pat forever. And he’s good friends with a lot of the people on this staff.. and has been.. and I thought this’d be great if he came.. and was in our church…and we would seek to see him standing on his feet again.

A number of years ago.. I said to the Lord.. ‘I’m so busy being a pastor, I don’t feel like I’m being a Christian.’

And that just meant I was so busy leading and preaching, doing all the stuff I wanted… I felt like…going and handing out pizzas to the homeless in Hyde Park.. or visiting people in old folks’ homes or reading books… or people in prison.

I’ve done all that.. and used to teach in a school for handicapped children and I go and visit prisons …just tell them to send up a prisoner if they didn’t have a visitor and I’d be there. And they didn’t know me. So when you get to be a pastor, you get a lot of other things going on ..

But He said to me, ‘No you’ve got a church full of people who can do that’……so I pray you do it man…

And He said, ‘No. No. No. What I want you to do is reach out to people that other people can’t reach out to.. And that’s pastors who are having troubled times.

And so I try to do that. And there’s a few.. who.. I have no judgements on men and women who’ve found their life in trouble. Who knows what pressures they’re facing and what things they’ve gone through.. but I do know they need to be recovered and restored.

And there is a pathway for that… repentance… restoration… restitution.. and making things right.

So Pat came….and I said to him, ‘Pat. I want you to do several things. One: turn up to church.’

And even with the shame and the awkwardness and the emotional difficulty of all that, I said, ‘That’s what you’ve gotta do’. Because the church is the best place you can be, rather than a counselling room. Just being in the worship, being in the local church, being involved in some ministry of serving in the House.. all of those things are the best healing processes you will ever find yourself engaged in.. because you’re forced to modify your behaviour and get things right and overcome …and all kinds of things….and relate to people.

And then just [let] the Spirit of God working amongst us..

I believe in the power of the local church. It is the most powerful thing on earth to actually affect all sorts of things in people’s lives.

So Pat did that. And one year after his marriage had broke, he met a lady called Andrea and I was happy to participate in their marriage.. three.. two-and-a-half years ago.. two years ago? Two years ago. And that was a really joyful occasion.

And Pat and Andrea served in the visitors’ lounge, helping us there and have continued to be involved in our church over that time.

And he’s been relating to Greg French, Simon McIntyre, Mark Kelsey and myself over that period of time.

We’ve had times where we’ve needed to say things or help him understand things or whatever.. and Pat has been exemplary in all his ways of handling it.

I have tried this with a number of ministers and leaders over the years and I’ve got to say not without a lot of success.

It’s been unfortunate because people find it difficult.. find it tough to recover.. old steps.

But Pat has really displayed a repentant attitude and a commitment to a pathway that will bring him fully back into that way.

And the ministry team.. we’ve all talked to each other and quite satisfied that he has fulfilled all those obligations.

The Assemblies of God asked him to do three years of restoration. It’s actually been four-and-a-half years now that he has been out of ministry and as I said, we are happy [about] that.

So in the 10 o’clock service this morning, we laid hands on Pat and Andrea and restored them to the ministry that God has called them to. (Applause)

In those services.. well actually, only in the 10 o’clock services, I asked Pat just to share something briefly and he did. And so I said, ‘I want you to share in that service just briefly. But what I really want you to do is preach in our church on Sunday night’.

So I want you to welcome Pat Mesiti as he comes…” (applause/cheering/Mesiti hugs Pringle)

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42 thoughts on “Houston, Pringle & Pat Mesiti (The Infamous Trinit-eretics)

  1. Thanks for reminding people that, though he fell, Pat Mesiti went through a disciplinary recovery process as a minister.

    People sometimes fail, and there are always consequences – David & Bathsheba, for instance, but God restores the repentant, even if it is not to the same degree as before, because life can never be the same after sin, even with repentance. People are hurt by our failings.

    You may not agree with his doctrinal stance on Biblical finances, but, as a Christian, and a leader in the church, it should be recognised that he served a time of discipline as a result of his admitted misdemeanour. Phil Pringle should also be recognised as having a big heart for taking on such a controversial leader at a time when most were appalled by what happened to him.

    Thank God for the blood of Jesus which washes away the sin of the repentant.

    I pray that Christian leaders everywhere are able to resist the pressures and temptations that come their way, and not stumble the flocks by their actions.

  2. I do agree. We can discuss and criticise some of Mesiti’s teachings with regard to finances but there is nothing to criticise about someone being restored after admitting a failure and after a time of discipline.

    We do need to treat sin seriously, but also help pick up people when they stumble. That really is what the church is all about.

  3. Was Mesiti divorced?

    If so, the guidelines Paul gave to Timothy rules out Mesiti being restored to leadership.

    I make no comment on his Doctrine or teaching.

    Shalom

  4. I believe that Mesiti should not have been restored to ministry. Mesiti was the Todd Bentley of Australia – he had warning signs written all over him.

    Phil Pringle and Brian Houston were like the Rick Joyner and Bob Jones – restoring Mesiti/Bentley to save their own asses.

    They’re all in the same bed together.

  5. I tend to agree that people should be able to be restored, particularly where they are willing to serve in a humble capacity in the mean time. Enough time needs to pass, depending upon the issue, to demonstrate that the changes as a result of repentance or healing are real. Only time can show if a change is internal or just conforming to external pressures.

    Without the hope of restoration, marriages would in some cases never recover, yet I have witnessed genuine recovery in that area in the lives of people I know well, which has led to a changed and deepened relationship after a considerable period of time.

    This is possible in ministry also, I would think, as it is a part of a person’s ongoing relationship with God.

    So Mesiti to one side, in principle, I would think that the church could suffer if people were not able to be restored. Time is an important factor. Todd Bentley for example, was obviously rushed back so fast that the idea of a restoration process looked very token.

    Doctrinal disagreements are another quite separate reason for not having a person minister. I wouldn’t have Bentley minister because I think his teaching is dodgy and the same goes for other preachers who push prosperity doctrine in a major way.

  6. I worked with Pat Mesiti for a few days in his heyday when he was in our city doing a crusade. He worked tirelessly with great energy, went into every highschool, and had literally every youth in the palm of his hand for 15 minutes in each school. An amazing, funny, evangelistic, energetic gift with young people.

    I’ve never seen anything like it, to go in cold and grab every secular youth in less than five minutes and hold them for 15 minutes in their assemblies. He wasn;t allowed to do altar alls there, but he could easily have drawn in most of them. As it was he was able to promote the night meetings, which were packed. When you can do that, sure, judge the man and his gift and measure him against your capabilities.

    He is nothing like Todd Bentley, and never was as an evangelist. He turned people to Jesus, mostly youth, but adults, too, who are still believers today. Like many evangelists, he needed people around him to help him keep on his feet. That’s not a criticism of anybody, just a fact. Even Moses needed Aaron and Hur to hold up his hands in battle. Shooting a man when he’s down is what actually happens in the Body too often.

    I don’t know what happened to Pat that led him to fall, but slamming a man when he’s down and has done everything to get his life right is below the belt.

    Brian’s task was always going to be difficult, but Phil Pringle had no other reason but love to assist Pat in his hour of need. Get real!

  7. Hi NewSong
    Why can we only judge people when we are as capable as them? Do we not have different callings in the body of Christ? I find your glorification of these people disturbing. If I accomplish something great I would want the praise given to God not to me.

    You say Pat has done everything to get his life right, but unfortunately he still preaches the same false gospel. It is this that I judge him on, not his speaking ability.

  8. @Boris – unfortunately when you dont have a gospel or a saviour that is inherently powerful enough to save the sinner, and its nearly all reduced away to human effort – thats the poisonous crud at the bottom of the cult of personality pot….

  9. I can actually say Pat is a personal friend but as far as being in ministry, firstly I agree with Bull, he’s disqualified by guidelines set in place in Timothy and secondly, he does “preach” a false gospel, the same “gospel” that caused us to leave C3.

    Because of his own personal failing, he was able to give me some good advice about a family member going through a broken marriage. Strange circles we travel in at times.

  10. What is disconcerting about the Phil Pringle / Mesiti scenario is how Pringle publicly “restored” Pat Mesiti while at the same time, there have been countless people kicked in the hind quarters and sent packing who committed far less grievous sins or who God forbid, pointed out some errors in the movement. Does Pringle try and restore these people and make a public acknowledgment of it? NO

    And why – because these people are not deserving of such treatment or because they have nothing to offer Pringle or the movement in terms of accolades or publicity.

    It just comes down to Pringle publicly preening himself for restoring someone and purporting his own self-engendered celebrity. Would he do this for “the least of these”? No – he’s only called apparently to restore pastors and high profile ones at that.

    That’s why I can’t take Pringle seriously. The man is on an ego trip par excellence.

  11. I presume you are talking about 1 Timothy 3:2? The husband of one wife. I always thought it was talking about polygamy, or adultery. I dont think it means that divorced people are always excluded from ministry.

    We also have Jesus’ words in Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”

    Some churches will never accept a divorced and remarried person even as a member because they believe they are an unrepentent adulterer. One could disqualify Pat on those grounds I suppose, but I think a different interpretation is in order.

  12. Gosh, Boris, thanks for correcting me and pointing out my error.

    Sincerely, I was merely giving a run-down of admirable qualities of the Pat Mesiti I knew and met at a certain time! It was a brief testimony, that’s all. For your benefit, although I din’t know you were lurking, I should have added, to God be the glory!

    To clarify, in the context of what I said, God was glorified in everything I saw Pat do, and that, without Christ in his life and ministry at that time, he would never have been able to minister in the way he did to the people he did. He did glorify Jesus, and I did mention that.

    Having said that, I do hope we don’t have to add to the length of comments by having to qualify everything said in this regard, but, to cover all eventualities, please, be it known to all that without Christ none of these things are possible, and the glory is to God alone, not any man or woman.

    Thank you!

    Wazza2, I think you have a good point in regard to restoration.

    Again, for everyone else, I am not commenting on whether Pat’s doctrine qualifies him for ministry, but on whether a man can be restored who has undergone a time of repentant discipline.

    If we do not leave some kind of door open, we are no better than the most legalistic Sadducees or Pharisees.

  13. NS: “Again, for everyone else, I am not commenting on whether Pat’s doctrine qualifies him for ministry, but on whether a man can be restored who has undergone a time of repentant discipline.”

    If we weren’t talking about Mesiti, I believe in the same thing as you NewSong. I believe ministers should be redeemed. Forgiveness and redemption should play a major factor in Christianity. It reveals to the church and the rest of the world the gospel in which we live.

  14. Well, I wouldn’t refuse membership to a divorced and remarried person.

    However, I was talking about leadership. God hates divorce, doesn’t he?

    So one of the pastoral problems that often crops up is the man who says to his pastor “I want to leave my wife … it’s not working out”. The Pastor says “No you can’t. God hates Divorce.”

    The man responds and says … “Well you did … after sleeping with the secretary, whom you subsequently married and divorced and you are now on your forth wife.”

    There is a sliding scale of acceptable/tolerated morality. If your church won’t accept you, you can go down the road to another that will. “We are fallible, mortal, sinful Human beings who can’t possibly be expected to live out the ‘Sermon on the Mount'”

    Now, while we all fail and we all never manage to live out the Sermon on the Mount, it is not Jesus ideal for the way we are to live, it is His standard.

    Pat can and should be restored to the body, but not to leadership as then other people will say his particular problems aren’t really problems at all. He did “whatever” therefore so can I.

    Ministry is so much wider than “leadership” anyway. If he is an effective communicator … he can still exercise his gifting in preaching and teaching, for example.

    But not in leadership. That’s what Paul was getting at. Leadership is not so much about gifting as about character. Leaders need to be people of the absolute highest moral standards simply because we do look up to them. That’s why Timothy was sent to get rid of bad elders in Ephesus and replace them with good ones.

    Shalom.

  15. I was reading about another’s need for restoration this morning and this comment was made….

    ” I would only place a fallen pastor back in the pulpit if he fit the qualifications. The 1 Timothy passage speaks of the office being a noble task. I think the necessity of the qualifications flows out of the nobility of the task. Because this task is noble, the overseer must be this, that, and the other. Many redeemed people may not match the nobility of the task. This does not argue in itself that they are not redeemed. In fact, Paul makes an analogy of some members of the body being treated with greater modesty (1 Corinthians 12:23-24). Some may not be put out in public, for their own sake and the sake of the body as a whole. We may have to say of some, “So sorry. We thought you were the mouth, but now we realize you need to be covered.” (I see some humor in Paul’s writing here. You have to wonder what the first hearers did with this, ribbing each other: “Well, I think you’re the …..”)”

  16. That’s a pretty good link, Bull. Quite succint. It would be worth doing some posts on its points I think, even though we’ve covered a lot of that ground in the past. (When I get a chance.)

  17. Sumtingtinks is more the go. I’m definitely skeptical. Anyone who goes from preaching about Christ to preaching about how to make buckets full of money has to invoke suspicion. Only the young will buy this socalled transformation. That is, until they live long enough to witness how a long line of their brethryn and, maybe themselves are fleeced by ‘Christian’ individuals who promise the world and take all you own. There certainly IS nothing new under the sun! God help us!

  18. margot,
    I presume you are referring to Bob de Waay being asked to step down because he was found to be an alcoholic, ultimately poisoned by his own hidden excess. That is a tragedy for the man, but he was in ministry in that state for a long time, apparently, including whilst engaged in a fairly vocal ‘discernment’ ministry, assessing the worthiness of other ministries and ministers, which is ironic, or would be if it wasn’t so serious.

    The comment was made by Rich Ritchie, a Lutheran convert from Catholicism. He talks about the ministry being noble, which may be accurate to a degree, but it depends on which application of ‘noble’ he is referencing. The NT uses at least three words for ‘noble’, one means merely good and decent, one means reverent, and the other refers to position, as with a nobleman.

    Paul says not many of the third will actually be invited into ministry – ‘not many noble’. The word ‘noble’ doesn’t actually come up in translations of Timothy, or Titus, so it’s hard to measure what Ritchie means by nobility in the ministry. Is it noble pious, noble headship, or noble well mannered?

    According to Paul, the criteria for being called to ministry is to be base, weak or ignoble. In other words God calls the sinner to be saved and then placed in ministry. He calls the nobodies to confound the wise.

    God doesn’t, can’t, won’t, wait for a man to become righteous before he can call him. Our own righteousness is as filthy rags. Our righteousness disqualifies us before we start!

    He calls us when we are still sinners, for there is none righteous, anyway.

    It is only through the righteousness of Christ that we can qualify for ministry. It is only through the Word and His blood that we can be made clean in God’s sight.

    We are earthen vessels, made of clay and dirt, called by God to contain his glory. We don’t stop being clay when we are saved. That way we deserve no glory and he receives it all.

    So no matter who we are, and how long we may have been in ministry, we can never be noble or righteous or holy enough in ourselves to qualify for anything in God’s kingdom. It is only through the grace and mercy of God that we are enabled to serve his people at his table.

    This is not a license to sin, or to engage in pornography, or drunkenness, or adultery, or whatever ministers find themselves caught up in which requires discipline, and they should rightly be set aside from ministry for a season if they are exposed, but there must be a time given for restoration if they are genuinely repentant, even though, as I have said, in ministry, can never be to the former degree of trust, because once trust is broken it is very hard to rebuild, if ever.

    But it is a lesson to us all that we are nothing without Christ, and those in ministry must know what is required of them to live an exemplary, repentant life before the flocks God gives them charge over, but to never think in their own mind that any apparent effectiveness is of themselves, because it isn’t.

  19. As Paul says to the pastors at Ephesus when he moves on to Rome, “Take heed to yourselves and to the flocks of God”.

    If Christ himself was tempted in all points as we are, what hope has the pastor of not being tempted?

    Pray for your pastors.

  20. But, you know, margot, Bob deWaay is still in ministry, still doing the online discernment ministries (ODMs) bit, broadcasting away in the company of his former church. One would have to think he has been restored.

    So, should an alcoholic pastor be dropped from the ministry team? How much of his writing was affected by his condition whilst he was still in it (by his own admission, addicted for years), and how long should he be out f ministry before he is restored? What should be the disciplinary process of restoration? And should we continue to credit his theology and work in the way CIC and his former church is?

    It is relative to the criticism of the restoration process of Pat Mesiti in the original post, which is so odiously, aggressively, misleadingly and repulsively titled.

    Even though post itself seems relatively neutral to the events, the title lends distinctive commentary.

    Is deWaay’s ODM compromised by his long term condition?

  21. No he isn’t and his wife is a friend of mine.

    Gossip, Steve, gossip. If you care to go back into Fighting For The Faith archives, Chris Rosebrough spoke of his visit with Bob, they prayed together and Chris led him in a prayer of repentance. He IS a very ill man and will never pastor again.

  22. Do yourself a favour Steve and listen to the first part of this broadcast, won’t take you long.

    http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2010/11/is-rick-warren-your-pastors-bishop.html

    The news surrounding Bob’s failure and fall, is old news. His work, well worth archiving. His family, particularly his wife, are examples of grace and courage.

    Am I surprised you pointed out the story? No, I actually wondered whenever I posted Bob’s articles, if you would, and for a moment, thought YOU exhibited grace towards this man.

    I was wrong…

  23. Sorry, but you have taken what I have said in the wrong way, margot.

    I think he should be forgiven and allowed to move on.

    That’s the point. I was comparing his situation, where you say we should exhibit grace, and Mesiti’s, where others, especially S&P determined he should never be allowed to do anything again.

    I’m with you, margot, on this, and I thought I’d made that clear, but are you with you in the same way with Mesiti as you are with de Waay?

    S&Ps words on it, after I had pointed out that he was shooting the wounded:
    I believe that Mesiti should not have been restored to ministry. Mesiti was the Todd Bentley of Australia – he had warning signs written all over him. Phil Pringle and Brian Houston were like the Rick Joyner and Bob Jones – restoring Mesiti/Bentley to save their own asses. They’re all in the same bed together.

    That is the attitude of a man who shoots his own for falling at his side.

    At least Rosborough sees the value of repentance, restoration and recovery. Do you for Mesiti?

    And Bob is, according to the following, is still broadcasting on CIC, which is an ODM.

    God’s Will and Christian Liberty, Part 2
    Presented by Bob DeWaay and Dick Kuffel
    Broadcast Monday, February 13, 2012
    Many people think they need their own special revelation from God to determine His specific will for their lives. We explain from Scripture categories such as God’s revealed will, God’s providential will, special revelation and general revelation.
    MP3 (duration 00:31:21)

    http://www.cicministry.org/radio.php

    And, in regards to what Rosborough says, which is fine, do you think maybe anyone on this post or thread is ‘shooting their own wounded’, like, perhaps Mesiti?

    But why did Bob have to wait so long for a brother to tell him Jesus forgave him? And why are people on here so ready to condemn ministers who choose to find a plan for another man’s recovery, which took over four years?

  24. You guys are all evil gossips – pouring over the details of other peoples lives. The rule guys, is that you play the issue hard and the person softly.

    Thank Christ you are all out of the church, on the sidelines. IMAGINE you were actually in a church doing life with other people! Dear me!

    And I am not even a Mesiti supporter.

  25. Hmmmm, sounds like the “do not judge lest ye be judged” is doing some judging? Speaking as one who IS in a church doing life with other people…….. 🙂

  26. It’s more fun over on the “Perpetual Virginity of Mary: mere tradition or sound theology/” article (unless you’re a Mary/Mediatrix/slowly becoming Catholic supporter). 🙂

  27. @Brad, the irony is that ministers are the worst gossips. Get together with a group of ministers and guess what they talk about.

  28. Hey Pat I am so glad that we worship a God who believes in a second chance.Thankyou for availing yourself of the opportunity God has given u and that u have been faithful in following through.I don’t know about all the gossip that obviously has been written about you but I do know that one of God’s awesome parts of His character is mercy and that through Jesus His mercy never runs out. I also know that I know that I know that in May 2000 my son Todd and I walked into HIllsong church on the night you were preaching and we were not there by accident. My son answered an altar call that night and from then the spirit of God stirred up a mighty passion in his gut for souls of which many of his school friends were brought to wildlife and youth alive and became christians. He also had an exo type of day at school of which wildlife pastors at that time attended. He is now living his eternal destiny. I wish I could tell u more. I am so glad u preached that night we are all called to evangelism we have so much to tell people of our encounter with Jesus but we keep our mouths shut. I hope one day to meet u and thank u for speaking the word of God once it takes root in a persons heart like it did with Todd on that night you prayed that it would bear fruit Matt 13:23

  29. Isn’t it great that the mercies of the Lord are new every morning.
    Great is your faithfulness oh Lord!

    People who want to talk about the sins of a man from years ago, are working for the wrong team.

  30. Yes…I have been guilty if pouring over the things I think are wrong in other folks lives and ministries and theologies. My life has changed orrevocablyin the past 4 weeks and I can’t for the life of me write another harsh word to or about anyone, I just can’t.

    I look at the world and see people say things that drive others to extremes…I am not called by Jesus to anything but the ministry of reconciliation. Just as I have been reconciled with God, so to does he call everyone else.

    Pat is a child of God and made mistakes many many men make…he is forgiven and life moves on doesn’t it?

  31. Interesting Greg. I’d say my life has totally changed too.
    And I love your comment about the “ministry of reconciliation”.

    It’s obvious that you have a gifting to preach. Regardless of what I’ve said before, I’ve been interceding for you. Don’t really know what to pray except that God would bless you.

  32. And I mean that, I used to say that I’d pray for people and never get around to it. But, I mean like 2AM stuff.

  33. Hey guys, the finished work of the Cross has handled all of this.. Grace…… is all sufficient for everyone and every situation..

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