Water Is Nice…

Thank you Mosco for finding a great article from: http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=4282

The Definition of a Watered Down Gospel: “Just Be Nice!”

11/15/2010 – Jamin Hubner

The vanity of values continues.

In this case, it continued in an article entitled “Message Fits to a T” on the front page of the Rapid City Journal’s section on Religion, published November 13, 2010. What did it say? And how does it demonstrate the continuing promulgation of valueless values?

Let us first refresh our memory.

There are many enemies and threats to the purity, organization, and existence of the Christian faith. There are unbelieving and oppressive governments. The secularism of the university, media, and the arts. False religions, false teachings, and the accuser of faithful Christian leaders. Yes, there’s alot of bad stuff “out there.”

But far worse, is the tendency of professing Christians to completely neuter the power of the faith by erasing the content of their own message. The greatest threats to God’s people come from within, not from outside. Uncomfortable thought, isn’t it? But, this at least explains some of the warnings in the New Testament regarding internal corruption (Romans 16:17, Ephesians 4:11-14, I Tim. 6:3-4, Titus 2:1). Defending the faith and protecting the faithful is all too easy when we can point to “them” and rest assured about “us.” The real challenge comes when those who claim to know God and label themselves as gospel-preachers preach non-gospel. Christless Christianity. No-news “good news.” “All foam and no beer.”

Sometimes, being the people of God is no more complicated than being nice. That’s the message of the “Be Nice, Because Nice Matters” T-shirts that have proven popular beyond the walls of Canyon Lake United Methodist Church in Rapid City. The church came up with the T-shirts this fall for its youth group ministry as part of its mission statement to “go out into the world to be the people of God.”

…Staff at Central High, Southwest Middle and Wilson Elementary schools have requested them. Wilson even declared each Wednesday “Be Nice Day.”

…Bachman started working at Canyon Lake UMC in July. The emphasis on community outreach led her to focus on helping gives learn that loving God means loving your neighbor. “We wanted to show the children that being nice matters in everything you do and is a direct reflection on representing Christ to all,” she said.

…”At a time where schedules are busy, families are stressed, people are struggling and life in general can get overwhelming, we need to remember to center on God first, then go out into the world to be the people of God. And we must remember while doing so to, ‘Be nice…because nice matters,'” Bachman said.

Some discerning thoughts are in order.

I love the idea of overwhelming people with such kindness that it befuddles them. I try and do that sometimes (the reactions are often memorable). I think Jesus did this on a regular basis. And it’s not like He just set the bar a little higher, Jesus is the standard, the definitional reference point for perfect ethical and moral behavior. He delivered a knowable, unsurpassable, sacrificial love that remains the greatest that has ever been witnessed in history.

That’s why these t-shirts are so confusing.

First of all, they proclaim a generic “niceness” completely detached from any source of what “nice” could mean. There can be as many different definitions about what “nice” means as there are people wearing (and reading) the shirts. Think about that. For every child-molester, thief, murderer, coveter, liar and deceiver that walks by, “nice” is merely what they think it means. I mean, it was “nice” for Hitler to save the human race from having to deal with these terrible Jews, was it not? It was “nice” for a 17 year old to swallow the pill and save her boyfriend the stress of a newborn baby, right? Upon what basis do we assert the contrary, as one proclaiming a message of totally subjective touchy-feely generic niceness, devoid of real substance and objectivity? There is none. Man is the measure of all things. He will define “nice” however he wants, and as a sinner, to his advantage and the disadvantage of everyone else around him. Without the clear proclamation of sin, repentance, and the need for Christ, all who wear and all who see such shirts will only end up re-asserting their current state of sin. It’s feeding more wood to a table saw that’s angled in the wrong direction. We’re fooling ourselves to think such t-shirts are going to do anything more.

Second, are we really to believe that Christianity is all about niceness, even if it did have meaning? Because if that’s the case, something tells me Jesus wouldn’t have worn the shirt – especially while he was flipping tables in the temple while screaming and whipping animals (Matt. 21). And the whole “kill the kids that swear at their parents” thing (Lev. 20:19) doesn’t seem very “nice” either – if we are to turn to God for definitions. Something is missing. Perhaps what’s missing is the rest of God (assuming the Bible tells us accurately about God)! Justice. Wrathful. Righteous. Holy. Granted, these things are not “anti-nice” or “contra-kindness.” They’re just not nice. An omnibenevolent God without coextensive and interconnected attributes is not the Christian God.

Third, are we really to believe that to “center on God first” means selling shirts that say “Just Be Nice, because Nice Matters”? Where is God? Where is Christ? Where is the gospel in these efforts to put Him first? It’s not there. And unless someone tells people (that is, preaches), they won’t see the need to flee from their sin and cling to Christ.

Fourth, being nice doesn’t matter. Being nice does not save souls from condemnation. There is no degree of niceness that will save a person from their just punishment. The soul that sins shall die, and rightly so, if we are to take God seriously in His Word. What matters is if you’re wearing the righteousness of Christ; all items of niceness and deeds of kindness are “filthy rags” in comparison to what God requires.

We might notice that the Methodist’s church’s efforts are 100% an application of Philip Anschutz’ Values.com. Has the same ring, and has the same overall goal. And as it was demonstrated earlier on Values.com, values are meaningless if they are undefined and disconnected from a meaning-giver. Unless you point to something solid and revealing and knowable and accessible and sufficient and just and right, “values” and “nice” means absolutely nothing.

So wearing a t-shirt that says “Just be nice, because Nice Matters” is like giving someone a map that says “just drive north, and you’ll get there.” Helpful? No. Christian? No, not if Christian actually means something unique. Our religion is not a collection of slogans. It is not an effort to be nice and see others be the same. And it certainly isn’t a faith that lets God-hating creatures define what niceness is and isn’t on God’s earth and on God’s watch.

So while the “be nice” t-shirts are for most folks cute and funny and spreading Christianity, in reality, they are either useless, or counter-productive. If our evangelical efforts were forced to be through t-shirts, perhaps it should read like this: Front: “Have you stolen? Lied? Lusted? Put yourself ahead of others?” Back: “Well, you’re in trouble. Because God is there. And He isn’t nice to people who ignore Him and His law. Repent fast, and trust in Jesus.” Or, more simple, Front: “God in the flesh demonstrated perfect love and kindness.” Back: “Read about it in His Word, and do the same.”

45 thoughts on “Water Is Nice…

  1. Reading this article, I understand where you are coming from Mosco. I’ve believed for a long time now that it’s not about being ‘nice’ that wins people to Jesus or instigates good biblical change.

    But being ‘nice’ can win people to Jesus and bring about positive change as well.

  2. I’m reminded of a very good sermon by Jeff Noblit…

    “God gives a church the pastor it deserves or really wants. You want the milky way he’ll give you a milky preacher.”

    Those T-shirts are the milky way.

  3. Yes being nice at the expense of the truth seems to be quite a common mistake. Christians are supposed to speak the truth in love and sometimes that can be a painful thing for both parties.

  4. “Speaking the truth in love” was never meant to be an excuse to be hurtful to the people we speak to. It seems to have become a get-out-of-jail-free card for any Christian who wants to say anything.

    This is the context from Ephesians 4 :

    11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

    14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

    It talks about us becoming more mature. Not getting involved in crafty teachings and dissention. Its not a licence to tell someone they are wrong, quite the opposite.

    Earlier on it says “Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.” Not too far away from “just be nice”, but you will never hear a hardline evangelical sermon on that passage.

  5. Good points Wazza. I agree with most in what you said.

    “Its not a licence to tell someone they are wrong, quite the opposite.”

    If what you mean hear is to ‘correct’ rather than say ‘your wrong’ without making a substantial claim, I’d agree. Once again, Paul sounds as though we need to grow in a balance of strong correction – he didn’t let liars, deceivers or the proud in the churches he was writing too get off lightly.

    I’ve concluded that if Paul knew the names of those in the early church that were spreading divisions, lies, false doctrines and other gospels, he would have had no problem naming and shaming them.

    He said some outrageous things to the early church that even I would have trouble saying in ‘love’. I think Paul was intending to shock, convict and possibly shame people in his letters to bring about correction when they persisted in error OUT OF LOVE.

    I think he would have only engaged in arguments and used such offenses, not to win arguments but to bring about positive change for the church in the long run. I believe he tore down to keep people only building the church with the Spirit’s help. Not on man’s selfish visions and endeavors.

  6. I must admit, I have been guilty on Signposts02 for ‘winning’ arguments – which is why I think the internet can be trap for God’s people.

    And Mosco, if you are reading this, I would like to know if you are willing to change your attitude to this blog. I don’t have a problem with you. But it is clear others do.

    Can you please at least apologise for your behaviour in the past so people can at least see that you are willing to engage in fruitful discussions? People have left because they feel you are here to win and arguments and bash everyone with your views.

    I like giving people chances to redeem themselves because I hate having to do things I don’t want to do.

    Arguments should not be won and then be used to bash people with. I would like to acknowledge that you come across very intelligent. I would like to see your insights into future articles and topics rather than always showing off your need to be right.

    What’s the point in being right if it’s destroying loving relationships? This isn’t nice at all. And it definitely is not revealing the loving gospel of Jesus Christ to the church or to the rest of the world.

    Yep. I’m a hypocrite – I know. I’m sorry for any past offense. I acknowledge that – this is my struggle. But I am learning what to do and what not do on Signposts02. It isn’t easy when you don’t have any examples today to live by.

  7. I think the key point to the scripture you posted Wazza was,

    Instead, speaking the truth in love, WE WILL GROW to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.

    Sometimes we do need to be cut down and humbled so we can grow the right way. This is what parents do to their children and this is what God does to us. RavingPente and Teddy were humbled by God and had to unlearn a lot so that they may grow on a more gospel and biblical foundation in Christ – myself included.

    The Truth is indeed a sword and I am glad I was cut into pieces – I am so different to what I could have been for all the wrong reasons. I thank God by His grace that He has dealt with me so severely in love.

    This is the loving authority I think Paul strikes with in his letters. All for the sake of solid biblical church growth.

  8. @Wazza -as you said [Ephesians 4 – speaking the truth in love] is “not a licence to tell someone they are wrong, quite the opposite”

    But arent you telling the people who are using Ephesians 4 as a get-out-of-jail-free card for “to say anything” that they are “wrong” for doing that??

    And by doing that, by your own reasoning, you are not speaking the truth in love – right????

    I somehow dont think it works like that wazza….

    It always makes me sigh how the cancer of relativism and post-modernity has so infected our minds that the ultimate arrogance, meaness, and social evil is to tell someone they are “WRONG”….

  9. I don’t think there is anything wrong saying someone is ‘wrong’ as long as you give an explanation why and offer an alternative.

    I would slam a lot of big churches being wrong, explain why and give a solution I believe is right. The answer given can be the solution to growth, which Paul seems to do constantly in his letters.

  10. Theres no hard and fast rules. Obviously one has to be able to say people are wrong sometimes, but its the way it is done and the context which are important.

    If someone advances an argument – then I think it is quite acceptable for others to advance an opposing one, as long as it is done respectfully.

    Its quite another to say to someone, unprompted “You are going to Hell, thats the truth and I say it in love”. Firstly, I don’t think one can know that for certain, and even if one could its not usually said in love.

    Many people think that if they truly believe something is the “truth”, then when they can say it is said in “love”. I don’t think thats what the passage means at all.

  11. Unfortunately what is respectful enough for person A is not necessarily respectful enough for person B….

    As much as you say the Ephesians 4 “Speak the Truth in Love” is a get out jail free card for people to talk to other people any way they want (which I dont think is a logical proposition anyway because of the qualification – “IN LOVE”) – It certainly is a really good “Pharisee Card” to play when one refuses to turn their mind to the possibility that they are “WRONG” and instead they want to save face by screaming “your just unloving and mean – Jesus wouldnt do that”

  12. This is precisely why we have nice “safe places” like the reflection room where nobody is wrong, everybody is right every opinion and proposition is as valid and correct as any other (except for ones like 1. “inferior races should be exterminated”; 2. “People who reject the Gospel will indeed go to Hell” etc…)

  13. On the other hand, who defines who or what is wrong?

    Surely a debate or discussion develops and revolves around the idea that one or more parties considers their premise to be correct.

    Who is the arbitrator of correct doctrine? The moderator? What if the moderator has no mediatory skills and is not in the least bit interested in being neutral, dispassionate or detached from the discussion?

    What if the sum of their refereeing skills is censure based on their own limitations?

    Does a person who considers themselves right have the God-given license to consider all others wrong and speak ill of them accordingly?

  14. @57 Varieties – your absolutely correct, the reformed faith is the best representation of Biblical and Historical Christian doctrine…..

  15. Now, be nice, specks!

    Well said, wazza2, by the way!

    How to be nice, in the Word, and God-fearingly godly at the same time:

    Romans 12
    9* Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
    10* Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another;
    11* not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
    12* rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;
    13* distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
    14* Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
    15* Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.
    16* Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
    17* Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.
    18* If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

    Nice: pleasant, agreeable, satisfactory. Good mannered! Polite!

    More nice:

    Philippians 4
    8* Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy–meditate on these things.
    9* The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you.

    Seasons’ greetings to all!

  16. If you insist posting on Signposts02, you don’t need me to post up articles how bad C3 is. You’re doing a good job bringing C3 down to your level.

    Even I don’t want C3 to look as bad as what you are doing right now. Why bring C3 down to Tartarus?

    Go away!

  17. It appears that Newsong/Cyber-bully has gone a-dobbing on everyone from here and Groupsects over at “Reflection Room”.

    I’m reminded of Arnold Scharzenegger’s quote about economic “girly men” …..it could be applied to a C3 pastor methinks, girly man that is.

  18. Of course the remarks are addressed to 5 Point but as someone who agrees with 5 Point’s views, it can apply to me as well.

  19. Is “57Varieties” a hint at how many IP aliases being used so far?

    Doesn’t anyone feel a little troubled by a C3 pastor deliberately being DECEPTIVE and seeming to have a lot of time on his hands, playing DECEPTIVE “cyber-games” on blogs, that would be better served ministering to his church?

  20. @teddy… I think it was half-pint-surgeon who challenged FL out of retirement at GripeHex, and the response to his accusations of RP is on an open blog which you or he are perfectly welcome to comment on.

    No one has banned you. I welcome your response over there. Half-pint was quite wrong in his attack on RP. Are you saying you agree with his analysis? The comments were topical to the thread at Reflection Room.

    So, NewSong commented on an entry made by half-pint which slapped down RP. What’s wrong with that? It’s normal practice to comment on pieces from other blogs. You do it all the time. That’s somehow ‘dobbing’ now? It think this site is getting childish, frankly, and very unchristian.

    It is a common practice, especially here and at GripeText, to lift posts and comments from another blog and critique them. There is nothing ‘girly’ about that. Or are you calling Chris Rosebrough ‘girly’ for lifting stuff from other posts, ministries and podcasts to decimate with is John Laws-esque method of decapitating truth through interruption and control of the mic? Are you calling specks ‘girly’ for lifting stuff from other blogs as posts here? Are you calling Lance ‘girly’ for cutting and pasting just about every post he ever puts up!!!!

    What are you suggesting about the female gender anyway? Are you being sexist?

    By the way, do you think preachers actually go into the pulpit having prepared the night before? Mostly they have everything well prepared long before they minister. And do you think they don’t have a life outside of the congregation? You really are scraping the barrel with your comments.

    And, disgrace C3? You have to be kidding! What? Defending C3 from some of the worse innuendo and unfounded accusations in the history of blogging is an insult to C3, or Hillsong?

    Are you saying this is an key blog to the discernment industry or something?

  21. @ RP – for what it’s worth, and I’m quite sure it’s not going to make a difference on your new blog, I’m not commenting there because of the above “cyber-bully” tactics of this creep who calls himself a pastor.

    I’ve met some fine young men who are still active in the C3 community (as pastors), bringing to it’s future a whole new Reformed dynamic that is going to be quite interesting to watch working out over the coming years.

    It’s men like like “cyber-bully” who bring shame to a movement that just may go way beyond his limited understanding of sovereign grace.

  22. Hey – How did you enjoy Rosebrough’s analysis of the C3 Pontiff?

    I couldnt think of anything more entertaining than seeing you try to defend Pope Pringle’s scripture twisting…….

  23. @5 Point – my husband sees this cyber-bully as someone desperate for attention, and suggests we ignore him. And he doesn’t believe he is a pastor at all because a pastor wouldn’t be so deceptive.

  24. Hey, now, you’re the one calling people names!

    Rosebrough has a limited understanding of the anointing. The service he critiqued was an anointing service, not a teaching sermon, or preaching. It came off ten days of fasting and prayer. But why would Rosebrough know this? We’ll cut him some slack.

    But calling Phil Pringle a fraud, a thief, a liar, a blasphemer and a heretic is an incredible overreaction, and so wrong, plus Rosebrough attributed straight out reading of the text as Phil claiming to be Jesus, or the Christ, which he never has, or would! Sorry! It showed a lack of understanding of Pentecostal doctrine, and an overwillingness to make false claims.

    So you think a person who stands up for his own Pastor when he is wrongly treated is attention seeking? You think it’s discrediting a movement for a person who is part of it to stand up for it! If that’s all I’m guilty of, I’ll wear it. Yep, there have been times when I’ve stood up for the Pringles and the Houstons and fr C3 and Hillsong. Yep! I love them in the Lord. Yep! I’ll keep on standing with them against false accusations and claims. Yep! I’ll tell you when you’re wrong!

    Although, in fact, most of the time recently I have put up sound arguments for sovereign grace and its outworking from an orthodox position, which many people would consider basically sound, and have left your general criticisms of Phil alone. I have challenged people on a few things to do with reformed theology.

    The reformed position has several weaknesses and flaws, which some people are unable or unwilling to see, one being cessation of the gifts, and a wrong idea of speaking in tongues.

    I think I have argued these points well, even if you do not agree. Your frustration is that there are people who can argue these things well from scripture. Mosco can say what he likes, and mock my educational background and perceived affiliations, but he knows deep down that my arguments have been solid, even if he disagrees.

    By the way, many people within C3 lean towards Calvin, whilst others are closer to Wesley. There is diversity within the movement, but it makes it interesting. It all depends on how we treat one another in the end, doesn’t it. No one is worried about it.

    And just because people are polite over at RP’s doesn’t make them ‘girly men’, whatever that means. It just makes gainsayers soooo wrong about sooooo many things! You have insulted RP in so many ways. I think she is the one person who doesn’t deserve it. As I’ve always said, I’ll stand for people I have some disagreements with if I think they’re being badly treated. You were very rude to RP without need to be.

    By the way, the only problem with multiple pseudonyms would be if a person used them to approve their own arguments, which I have never done. And you all know who I am anyway, don’t you? Yes! I thought so. No deception at all. Just annoyance for critics!

  25. What troubles me is the access people have to different IP addresses as they trawl the internet.

    As a parent and grandparent, it proves to me just how easy it would be for someone to pose as a pastor and gain access in vulnerable lives, and not just adults.

    Deceptive? Yes. Very strange behaviour? Yes. If I knew my family was attending a church with the above Cyber-bully as pastor, a archive of comments and accompanying different aliases would be quickly forthcoming.

    Commonsense would quickly reveal the danger of being in the arena of such a person, particularly parents.

  26. You are certainly stepping this up beyond reason, teddy. And for what? To win an argument? To destroy a reputation with false accusations?

    You are practically accusing someone of… what exactly, in relationship to your children and grandchildren? Unbelievable!

    Your disgusting innuendo just about sums up the quality of discussion this site has sunk to. It’s an utter disgrace.

    As a God-fearing man and a parent, I am appalled by your trashy suggestions.

    And extremely grieved.

    My God! What a thing to say!

    This says it all, really specks. I’m sorry you’ve had to witness this kind of thing. I know you don’t think this way, at least. God help us!

    I actually came here to mess around, in a friendly way, with 5PointSpurgeonist, whom I like, despite his different views, because he sent a challenge out through groupsects, and I agree that we had some fun stoushes, until interrupted by teddy’s foul insinuations and speck’s rash trigger-happy finger.

    I don’t have a problem with 5Point. He, at least, has a fabulous handle on the Trinity and on the key elements of salvation doctrine, including the propitiation. We differ on predestination alone, as far as I can see.

    I can handle his ribbing, and I think we carry on just like sportsmen on opposing sides with a little bit of sledging and banter really, and we would probably be good friends in the real world, despite our differences.

    I don’t think teddy or specks understand how some relationships on different sides develop. You talk about Whitfield and Wesley, then completely miss the point.

    I came on this and other blogs as a private Australian citizen to discuss issues with other Christians, that’s all. I enjoy the banter. I do not come here in a professional capacity. Never have. And I’ve always said this. It’s you who have made an issue out of vocation, and now this. Lord save us!

    What you said is so far over the top that I can’t believe I just read it!

  27. You have no eyes Facelift. Go fall into a ditch and rot with the corpses of the pharisees. Your ignorance and your continual denial of the facts are… there are no words!

    You are a poor excuse for a pastor. Shame on you for being such a bully and a manipulative pastor! I really, truly feel sorry for your congregation.

    I wrote this on Sunday 7/11/2010 about what Phil Pringle said that night at C3. This talk was not uploaded to their website (for obvious reasons).

    When Pringle Says ‘We Need God’, He Means ‘I’m Getting Desparate’

    … I’m also sad about what I heard Pringle say on Sunday night.

    Phil Pringle was back from Kong Hee’s City Harvest Church. He was up on stage at Christian City Church Oxford Falls. But he didn’t preach like he normally did. He said that as a church ‘we need God’.

    C3 isn’t progressing ‘triumphantly forward’ in their movement of glory right now. Pringle announced that Wednesday’s the church will be closed. C3 will also be cutting back their C3 church news advertisements.

    The church is open all week. They have groundskeepers, repairers and cleaners maintaining the grounds and facilities and a full staff at CCTV and of course the youth and main church offices.

    He justified these ‘godly’ decisions before everyone. But this goes against his theology. He likes the church to be open every day of the week. You can see him teach this on his available podcasts online which are accessable through http://www.myc3church.net.

    The entire church was encouraged to fast and pray for ten days. The rest of the service had Phil Pringle pray for people. He encouraged people to wait on God. (This is rare.) This may have been a good thing for once. But I felt sorry for those he laid hands on. I don’t know what he imparted on them. It was just another Phil Pringle show, with Jesus that little bit more present.

    If Phil Pringle is wanting people ‘need God’, all I can feel is that he is struggling or desperate for something to happen.

  28. You are the one who seems to find some strange satisfaction to gain access to blogs where you have been banned. Have never come across such bizarre behavior – it makes one wonder why? Don’t like the implication? Then stop doing it.

  29. Et tu, speckus!

    @Speckus…’Go fall into a ditch and rot with the corpses of the pharisees.’

    A fie on your curse, sir! Do you not know that the curse causeless is without effect?

    @teddy…Nothing justifies such an implication, teddy. You do yourself a disservice even saying those things, let alone thinking them.

    Incidentally, thanks to Jesus, our church continues to grow, and people are being saved on a regular basis.

    We have wonderful testimonies of healing. Others are receiving excellent jobs and promotions. The doctrine is sound, and we have a team of ministers in the pulpit with strong and varied ministry backgrounds. Couples are being married, new-borns dedicated, the mourning are comforted. Children’s church is packed. Youth are increasing! Worship is wonderful and uplifting, God praising!

    Church plants are thriving, with two new church buildings going up as we speak in places where, four years ago, there were no churches, and another church building having been given in an area where, only one year ago, drunkenness and violence were rife and no church existed! God be praised! Evangelistic meetings there at the beginning of this year, where many were saved and delivered, have yielded a harvest! To God be the glory! His name alone be praised!

    Where the gospel is preached, and the name of Jesus proclaimed people are saved, healed and delivered. Bless the Lord forever!

    That was a testimony, by the way! Good news! Let God be glorified for his kindness and mercy.

    You’re right about my credentials and qualifications, though. They are base, weak, and foolish! I am, indeed nothing without Christ!

    1 Cor.1:26-31
    ‘For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence.”

    “But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God–and righteousness and sanctification and redemption- that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.”’

    You know, more testimonies of God’s goodness and grace in this nation would do your blog no harm at all!

    Why no ask people to write up good news on a thread where God is glorified through the great things he is doing in our nation, rather than constantly cut ministries to pieces with each stroke of your keyboard?

    Start a revival! You know it makes sense.

  30. Your behavior, your various aliases, multiple IP addresses made me realize just how easy it would be for someone to take advantage of vulnerable people on the Internet. Let it be a lesson to you just how easy it is to assume wrong motives – as I said very strange or perhaps inappropriate behaviour on your part.

  31. Just go away Facelift. Let me spell it out to you because you don’t seem to get it:

    G-O A-W-A-Y!

    A two-year-old can understand what that means. Will this simple command finally reveal the intelligence of a C3 pastor?

  32. Another lie:

    “I came on this and other blogs as a private Australian citizen to discuss issues with other Christians, that’s all. I enjoy the banter. I do not come here in a professional capacity. Never have. And I’ve always said this. It’s you who have made an issue out of vocation, and now this. Lord save us!”

    You are a compulsive liar Facelift. Leave SP02 alone.

  33. Of course, teddy. Point taken. And let it be a lesson to you how easy it is to start a conspiracy theory or damage a person’s reputation by spreading malicious innuendo.

    @speckus… I was talking about leaders, and nothing to do with fashion! I think C3 is a rather larger movement than you imagine.

    Anyways! Enough sledging, folks! The Aussies are on the ropes as it is! Change the subject!

    Praise God for the indigenous man who gave his life to Jesus last night during our meeting! He came from the hospital following an operation for cancer. Can you join with us in praying for his recovery, please.

    Can you also pray for Br Emmanuel in Pakistan, a church planter we support. Especially his mother who is unable to walk after being hit by a vehicle this week. Pray for his safety in a difficult area, and for her recovery.


  34. I’m not a liar, speckus!

    But you are an accuser!

    I challenge you to go through your last twenty posts and threads to see how many people you have accused of something you disapprove of.

    Then see how many you have affirmed or defended!

    See how many are involved with different churches. Your own church. How many Christians you have accused!

    Go back two years and check out the same things! See if you are not a compulsive accuser! See if you say anything positive about the Body of Christ. One thing?

  35. @Multiple (57) Personality Disorder, Etherial Schitzo, and Blogisphere Serial Pest….

    Dissociative identity disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a condition in which a person displays multiple distinct identities or personalities (known as alter egos or alters), each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment.

    Hey – That could also describe your Hermenutic!!!!

  36. @Etherial Schitzo/ BSP(I like that one too)

    “Anointing Services” Book, Chapter Verse please?

  37. Is that right 5 Point Spurgeonist, er, or was it Mosco?

    As I said to specks and teddy, and now say to you, when you all reveal your actual names online, I’ll join you! Then we’ll all know who we are, n’est pas?

    Hermeneutic: Interpretation

    Exegesis: Explanation

    Why can’t you just use simple terms to describe simple activities?

    There must be a psychological condition for that too! I’m sure you know the grandiose term for it!

    “We are 57!”


    5PointS/Mosco… ‘each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment’

    And it took you so long to ID NewSong, and you were so chuffed with yourself for discovering what everyone else knew!!

  38. I wonder if Pringle would be putting C3’s money into City Harvest Church to help pay off the churches debt?

    His title of prophet is associated with Kong Hee buying Suntech. If Kong Hee sinks – Pringle sinks. A lot is at stake. Don’t forget Pringle boasting about his ‘propheti gift’ here:


    That minister was Phil Pringle. This was said right at the beginning of sermon ‘Favour’. Watch here: http://itunes.apple.com/au/podcast/favor/id129622905?i=83970289.

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