Does God Speak to People Directly?

 

By Wayne Jackson

“A friend of mine, who is very religious, is constantly telling me that God speaks to her directly. Anything she wants to do, even things condemned by the Bible, she justifies by saying that she talked with the Lord about the matter, and he told her it was alright. Just how does God speak to people today?”

Your friend has a very “convenient” method of authenticating what she wants to do. Unfortunately, it is a seriously misguided view that will end in disaster. When people want to believe something so badly that they will reject the revealed truth of the Scriptures, and seek a “direct response” from God, he will allow them to believe what they will — even lies. Ultimately, though, they will receive an appropriate judgment as the consequence (see 2 Thes. 2:11-12).

The writer of the book of Hebrews has summarized Heaven’s methods of communication to humanity.

“God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son” (Heb. 1:1).

The foregoing text states several basic truths.

  • God has spoken to man.
  • He did so in times past in varying degrees and by different methods.
  • Eventually, however, a change in his method of operation occurred; today he speaks exclusively by means of his Son.

The key question to focus upon, however, is this: What is the significance of the phrase “in his Son”?

First, let us note some of the ways by which the Lord communicated with various individuals of the past.

There is no question but that the Creator of the universe is a God who communicates with humankind. When man was fresh from the hand of his Maker, the Lord spoke to him and said, “I have given you every herb yielding seed … for food” (Gen. 1:29-30). In Eden, the Lord spoke directly with Adam (Gen. 3:9). There were times when God “appeared” (in a physical form) and engaged the patriarchs in conversation (cf. Gen. 18:1ff).

But these episodes say nothing about how Jehovah may communicate with humanity in this post-miraculous, Christian age. See our article onMiracles.

In ages of the ancient past, God occasionally spoke to men in dreams as they slept (Gen. 20:1-7; 28:10ff; Mt. 1:20-21), but there is not the slightest evidence that he does so today.

The Lord sometimes talked with men by way of visions (Mt. 17:1-9; Acts 10:9-17; 22:17; Rev. 9:17). But those times are past.

There were periods when God used angels to communicate his will to a person (cf. Acts 12:1ff). [Note that in this instance the visit by the angel is clearly distinguished from a “vision” (9:17).] There is, however, no documentation for angelic appearances in modern times.

Back now to the text of Hebrews 1:1.

Since the book of Hebrews presents a contrast between Jehovah’s revelatory methods of the past(embracing both Patriarchal and Mosaic ages), and his mode of communication in this age, it follows naturally that the inspired writer is affirming that today (in this final dispensation of time), the Lord is not speaking by dreams, visions, etc., but exclusively by means of Christ through the New Covenant Scriptures.

Note some of the evidence that supports this conclusion.

  1. The Lord Jesus did not encourage his followers to seek a direct communication from God throughout all time. Instead, he affirmed that the teaching which came from him would guide them to life (Jn. 6:63), and by his “word” men would be judged on the last day (Jn. 12:48). Further, he indicated that his teaching ultimately would be conveyed through his apostles, or other inspired persons (cf. Lk. 10:16; Mt. 10:19-20; Acts 2:42).
  2. When the noble people of Berea wanted to know the truth regarding the Christian religion, they did not wait for a voice from God to answer their concerns. Rather, they examined the Scriptures to determine the truth of the apostolic message (Acts 17:11).
  3. Paul affirmed that by a study of the Scriptures one would have sufficient information to furnish him completely for the accomplishment of every good work needed for the Christian life (2 Tim. 3:16-17). If the Scriptures furnish one “completely,” he needs no direct, audio message from the Lord.
  4. Jude explicitly affirms that the Gospel system, called “the faith” (cf. Gal. 1:23; 1 Tim. 5:8), was “once for all delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3). The expression “once for all” translates the Greek term hapax, which means “once for all time.” It is used “of what is so done as to be of perpetual validity and never need repetition” (J.H. Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 54). There is no need, therefore, for on-going, direct communication from God.

Finally, there is a very obvious flaw in the assertion that the Lord is speaking directly to people today. Such a view allows anyone to fabricate, out of thin air, any claim he or she wishes, with no demonstrative means available of either confirming or exposing the statement.

How many times have we read shocking newspaper stories where some evil person has murdered a fellow, all the while claiming that “God” told him to commit the brutality? Does God condemn murder in the Scriptures, yet sanction such in a direct conversation with some delusory soul?

If one wishes to know the will of God on a subject, he must search the Holy Scriptures. This is the only source of sacred information relative to things spiritual (see 2 Tim. 3:16-17).

Related Articles[object Object]


57 thoughts on “Does God Speak to People Directly?

  1. Hebrew 1:1-2 1. God spoke to our ancestors in every way, shape and form (by sample and example) through the prophets of old, and in these last days (Or in recent time), He spoke to us through His Son,
    2. To Whom was consecrated the inheritance to everything, and by Whom He created the universes,

    Now skip to vs 13 & 14:

    13. To which of the angels )messengers) did He then ever say,

    “Sit from my right
    … until I consecrate your enemies
    As a rug under your feet”?

    14. Alas, were they not all spirits of ministry sent to serve those who were destined to inherit the everlasting life?

    OK, Jesus was the culmination of the OT prophets and all the messengers pointed to Him. That’s simple. And then He sent us another Teacher, remember? To lead us and to guide us into ALL TRUTH, as in the Way, Truth and Life. Such that we need not that nay MAN should teach us, but each shall no me says the Lord, once that the Day Star has arisen in your hearts and the Promise is come. He shall write His Law upon OUR hearts.

    The Bible is not he fourth person of the Godhead and the KJV is so leavened it is not funny, as is every translation which in which a man has been involved. Maimonides made 6000 changes to the OT and Bacon turned the AV into his own subtly twisted tool of deception.

    Now what do you mean by post miraculous? My middle son is a bona fide medical miracle. I have had miracle healings and been involved in them. I have seen a man raised up from death, utterly broken, beyond any hope – utterly healed. In fact, I have seen and been involved in so many I have lost count. I guess you have not?

    The Lord sometimes talked to men by visions but this is past? You are kidding surely? Oh I get it, it has not happened to you so it could not possibly happen. Good grief man, this little sermon of yours is actually antichrist, and the really sad part is you obviously believe and base your life on this nonsense and twisting of scripture.

    Jesus said that the word he spoke by the Father would be the judge – in other words if you twist it or misrepresent it it would stand in judgement as the plumb line of Truth.

    I totally agree that what we say must line up with the revealed will of God in Jesus Christ, and must be true to His Word.

    12. And all those who wish to live by submission to God must be persecuted through Jesus Christ. (Will be persecuted just like Jesus)
    13. Evil and misleading people, however, will augment their evil doing, as they lead others to oblivion and themselves likewise.
    14. You, however, be strengthened in what you have learned and by Whom you were confirmed. For you know from whom you have learned,
    15. And from your boyhood, you have learned the holy Scriptures that could impart to you the wisdom of the everlasting life through the faith in Jesus Christ.
    16. For every Letter that is written through the holy Spirit is effective in teaching and illustration, and for building and the edification of righteousness,
    17. So that the men and women of God may be fully evolved, to perform every good deed and become faithful adherents.

    When someone hears voices or another shepherd, it is that they have become given over to the abomination which stands in the Holy place pretending to be God – and they hear it as fi it were God. While the third hand anecdotal evidence of this apparently delusional woman who inspired this article is hearsay, it is not uncommon, and while all things may be permissible, not all things edify.

    I would love to debate with you in person as to this and other things. I think Pope Gregory, you have a form of godliness which denies the Power, and that it is the other side of the paradox from “hearing voices” which you are promoting, and it is equally erroneous and disempowering.

    BUT, I would offer to covenant with you in the name of Jesus that whatever we either of us “know” and or preach which is contrary to the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Grace, that he will teach us what it is that we need to know and what it is that needs to go. Agreed? I am up for it if you are.

    Was that light which came into your cell warm like sunlight or cold like fluorescent? I do so hope it was the former – the false light can fool people, it has done quite effectively for thousands of years, but not for much longer.

    This is, ironically, the very “god” who tells people to do things which are in effect anti-God, but before we venture too far down that track, the Real God told the Israelites to utterly destroy the Amalekites even to the children.

    Yes there is a very real danger that people may fabricate things out of thin air, but these are usually provably and obviously false – it is when they use scriptures selectively, and seem to know what they are talking about that they present an even greater offense. Because they are Pharisees who do not want others to enter in as they will not enter in themselves.

    No miracles, no visions, no words from God, no prophets? Please tell me you are not serious. What would you do without a Bible? How would you “hear” the Word? Which by the way is a Person and not a book.

    What about the greater works?

  2. Well, the writer begins with the wrong premise and, subsequently, ends with incorrect doctrine.

    First of all, he adds the word ‘exclusively’ to the text which says that Jesus Christ speaks to us in this age.

    Yet we know that God has spoken to us through the Holy Spirit, who is the Spirit of Christ, and he has sent angels to speak to the Church in the name of Jesus Christ, and, third, he sends believers to speak to other believers and to non-believers in the name of Jesus Christ.

    So the idea that the scriptures are the sole means by which God speaks to us is erroneous.

    Scripture itself is filled with examples of God the Holy Spirit speaking to and through New Testament saints after Jesus was raised to the right hand of the Father.

    in fact, Jesus told his disciples that scripture would be developed this way. He told them that the Holy Spirit would remind them of all the things he had said and done when he was with them. He would guide them into all the truth. He would bear witness of the Son.

    God may even speak directly to a person should he so choose. He will do so through the Spirit of Christ, whom, Jesus said, he would send to those who obey His commandments, and who would, according to Jesus, be another just like Him.

    Therefore the Holy Spirit, who is a Person, being the third Person of the Godhead, can speak to us directly.

    Is there evidence of this in scripture. Emphatically, yes. In Romans 8:14, where the Spirit bears witness with the believer’s spirit that God is ‘Abba; Father”, and reminding us of our covenantal relationship with the Almighty.

  3. Wayne Jackson,
    But these episodes say nothing about how Jehovah may communicate with humanity in this post-miraculous, Christian age.

    Which post miraculous age would that be, Wayne?

    I was going to add in my previous comment that this read like the words of a cessationist, and here we have the evidence. But further evidence is given when following the link to his ‘Miracles’ post, which is his essay on why the gifts, baptism with the Spirit and, specifically, miracles have ended, using he same errors most cessationists employ.

    Of course, if you don’t believe in the gifts, in prophecy, in the outpouring of the Spirit, in the very work of the Spirit Jesus promised us, then you are likely to dismiss both miracles, and the truth that the Spirit still speaks to us today.

    So he creates a blasphemous deaf and dumb spirit by refuting the current last days work of the Holy Spirit.

  4. In Wayne’s world the following could not apply:

    John 14
    26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”

    John 16
    7 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
    8 “And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 “of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
    10 “of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
    11 “of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

    John 16
    13 “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
    14 “He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

    1 Corinthians 2
    12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
    13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
    14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    ETC…

  5. Adding to this, the passage in Hebrews, after the contrast between Christ the Son and angels, goes on…

    Hebrews 2
    2:1 ¶ Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.
    2 For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward,
    3 how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
    4 God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?

    Which follows on directly from the verse which says…

    ‘God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son…’

    So we are told exactly how Jesus, the Son, began to speak to us, and exactly how he continues to speak to us in the same passage, which goes to show that you need to stay the context of the whole and not take portions to make a false doctrine.

  6. Believing in these ridiculous notions of gods is sheer lunacy.
    But it gives us all a good larf.
    Unfortunately all this gods muck garbage has caused and continues to obliterate millions of lives.
    It also causes the sexual abuse of untold numbers of children worldwide.
    Religion has been the worst and most disasterous scam ever invented

  7. So how many Christians have you met in your life, snozza? And how many Hindus, or Buddhists, or Jehovah’s Witnesses, or Catholics, or Muslims?

    And how many of these were pedophiles? One? Two? Do you actually know? Have you ever met one?

    I’m not saying you haven’t, or maybe you’ve been abused by one. Out them. But don’t blame religion for it. That’s just one of the fronts they hide behind.

    Of course they will target anywhere there will be potential victims, and the Catholic Church was very slow to safeguard the interests of their flocks, to their discredit. But hey are not the only ones.

    Most pedophiles are either friends of the victim’s family or related to their victims. Very few show any kind of actual religious affiliation.

    Chasing the Catholic priests is just the tip of the iceberg, the part we see floating above water, the easy target, the obvious place to look.

    Officially, one in three girls and on in four boys are sexually assaulted in Australia. Officially!

    But many abused children say nothing about it, because of the shame and the guilt, or feeling dirty, or because they’re threatened or intimidated by the perpetrator, or some even become the slaves of the predator.

    Pedophiles and abusers are everywhere, not just in religious circles.

    It’s time for the lid to be lifted off of this abomination, and if judgment begins at the Household of God, then so be it. I hope their are all exposed and convicted.

    But then let’s take a look a the rest of society. Let’s uncover the whole sordid mess and nail the lot of them.

    So don’t laugh about it. They’re everywhere.

    Shine the light on them.

    Jesus said that everything that is hidden will ultimately be shouted from the rooftops.

    So be it!

  8. Well said Steve – regarding sexual abuse of children. Snozza, as Steve points out attacking the church is low hanging fruit. I was abused as a teenager…inside my own family, as well as outside – only one of those people had any involvment with the church in any official capacity. The church is not the issue – the people with evil in their hearts are the issue.

  9. I would love to debate with you in person as to this and other things. I think Pope Gregory, you have a form of godliness which denies the Power

    Ian – I posted the article, I didn’t write it – there is no call for you to start attacking or questoining what I believe or calling me names. We’ve been down that road on this blog adn I have no desire to go back down there.

  10. “But these episodes say nothing about how Jehovah may communicate with humanity in this post-miraculous, Christian age”

    You beat me to it Steve. Does anyone have a verse stating when the post-miraculous era will begin?
    Did Jesus give a hint of when it would begin?
    Did Peter or Paul tell people to hurry up and get the sick to the Apostles because the post-miraculous times are nigh?

    Were Christians from the different regions rushing to get to Jerusalem or Antioch or….somewhere in case the happened to get the train which arrived just AFTER the PM era began?

    The post-miraculous Christian Era. I”ve heard of BCE, but now we have PMCE. Anyone got a date for that?

    Imagine the poor guy in the healing line in front of an Apostle. Do these cessationist think that there was an Apostle who was just hearing from God and healing people at the drop of a hat and then suddenly it stopped? Oops. So, guys it’s here, no more miracles! But don’t worry – you’re all really mature now and don’t need any miracles or to hear from God. We’ve arrived!!!!

  11. Q,
    Imagine the poor guy in the healing line in front of an Apostle. Do these cessationist think that there was an Apostle who was just hearing from God and healing people at the drop of a hat and then suddenly it stopped? Oops. So, guys it’s here, no more miracles! But don’t worry – you’re all really mature now and don’t need any miracles or to hear from God. We’ve arrived!!!!

    Great summary, Q!

    It amazes me to think that, although we have more troubled, ill and poor people on earth today than ever, far more than in Israel of Jesus’ day, or Asia of the Apostles’ day, religious denialists think we can do without God or His power, will and desire to deliver, because we have His words in print!

    If they bothered to read those words they’d see that God’s will for the redemption, restoration, and yes, healing and deliverance of people never changed.

    All He is asking for is labourers who actual believe what He says.

    Cue all the scoffers to bring in a list of ‘whatabouts’!

  12. You godgobbers are always trying to hide the horrendous amount of misery caused by your disgusting cults. You always try to hide the mountains of sexual abuse in all your different cults by saying the abuse is in all parts of society.
    We all know the abuse is widespread.
    That doesn’t sexual abuse against kids in your religious mobs any less culpable.
    Religion is a worldwide sickness and is the worst known disease on the planet
    I reiterate what I said before.
    Believing in your gods is sheer lunacy.
    But it gives us all a good larf. Larfin at your idiotic devotion to non existent medieval claptrap is a daily enjoyment for me.
    I wish you weirdos would hurry up up and finish slaughtering yourselves.
    Unfortunately,belief in your gods muck garbage causes and continues to cause the sexual abuse of untold numbers of children worldwide.
    Religion is the worst and most disasterous scam ever invented.

  13. So that is good reason for you to be abusive, then, is it?

    You’re the only one abusing anyone here.

    If you’ve been abused by anyone in religious garb, I’d be happy to hear from you, and maybe we can empathise.

    Otherwise, if you knew what a numbskull you look from your dim-sighted perspective, you’d probably slap yourself up the side of the head instead at the ridiculous nature of your claims.

    Anyway, thanks for your contribution. You’ve made yourself clear. It’s a load of bigoted anti-religious tripe, but, now that you’ve had your say, maybe you can go laughing away!

  14. My apologies to you Greg, nothing personal, but why post it at all if if it so obviously specious and twisted? The Pope thing is a joke Willem Bellaard (aka God’s right hand) and I used to banter about – ribbing each other. Sorry, I thought you were Aussies, not Mozzies, and one thing I found about Aussies is that for the most part they are straight talkers and do no beat around the bush – if they think you are behaving like an idiot they will tell you quick-smart. I like that directness, it is not hatefulness by any means, it is just iron on iron, and if you don’t like the sparks, then don’t post drivel – it is not debate engendering, it is faith denying, God denying, Word denying, Spirit denying, grace denying…but thank God that though we deny Him before Men, He shall “deny” us by continuing to speak the Truth in love over us, for He cannot deny Himself.

    As for Snooza, who are you trying to convince? Most who would come to this meeting place have had some kind of personal encounter the person of Jesus Christ and so have believed, their faith having come by hearing, and the hearing having come BY THE WORD OF GOD, which became manifest as Jesus Christ, the WORD made flesh and the reality of this is administered by His Holy Spirit.

    The SEED was sown and became a HARVEST. I don’t know why it is that God has not granted you repentance to the acknowledgment of the Truth, such that you should recall yourself and so escape the snares of Satan, by whom you are bound.

    Steve, using the Scriptures to such telling effect – I am impressed – but might I add that “Judgment beginning at the household of God” does not mean so much that God is going to judge or scourge His house and or children. He chastens and corrects by His Word, Jesus, and His agency, the Holy Spirit – the same DNA and RNA of God which was in Jesus is in you too, and it is the Father within, He does the works.

    Boy oh boy, that’s three in thee, does that comprise a Trinity? “I go to prepare another country for you, so that where I am you may be also, and My Father and I shall come and dwell with you.” The word Mansion – or Man Sion is not in the original Aramaic – it must have been slipped in there by popes or property developers.

    If the Church does not really understand judgment, such that it puts itself under judgment by denying God’s judgment, then it shall indeed be judged. Confused? Let me break it down.

    Jesus said that by Him light came into the world but that the world rejected that light, preferring the darkness (thank you God and Willem for opening my eyes to this essential Truth). He gave His disciples ONE NEW COMMAND – yet not “new” but OLD, or as at the beginning. He told of how that God did not judge us and that all judgment was committed to the Son yet He judged no but rather bore the judgment Himself. (John 5).

    Because we have not comprehended rightly that we have passed from death to Life, and have not judged righteously the “Once for all” sacrifice of Jesus, and continue in the darkness of our own pretensions and so judge one another, then this is the judgment which befalls us, in that we judge ourselves by playing at being little g gods. We either “know” Jesus, the Tree of Life, or we “know” satan, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

    If we truly KNOW the Truth, then the Truth sets us free from the darkness, and we walk in the Light and shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for the fulfillment thereof is death.

    I can understand why the worldly and hurt might question the ethics of those who call themselves Christians – when I read what Obama says it nearly makes me choke and he says he is a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ! And MANY shall come in MY NAME saying that I Am the Christ and shall deceive many. Its all about the fruit folks, and the fruit comes from the Tree of Life in the MIDST of the garden – the inner LIFE – the inner MAN created in righteousness. The fruit the Church has largely been hawking is actually from THE WRONG TREE, which by the way, has become as the family tree of churchianity, and the faith contradicting thing which rises out of the ground.

    BY the by – Obama will lead America into darkness – God has given America a leader after their own hearts, just as He gave Germany Hitler, but the real Welf in sheep’s clothing is Charles – and the same fools who are fooled by Obama are also utterly hoodwinked by the Windsors (Guelf or Welf) and Rothschild. The Welf’s are Assyrian, and Rotchschild Jewish, and they have played the harlot with the young men of Assyria, whose flesh is as horses and whose issue is as that of a donkey, which is why the world is ruled by a bunch of braying Asses from Assyria and zero-sum Zionists who will plunge the whole world into darkness. As sirry as it may sound. But this will set the scene for the return of the King, and I don’t mean Charles. Tolkien primed the world for the coming Beast and the Little Horn, as did C S Lewis. The antichrist shall be seen as The Man of Good. He will be a grey man with a grey mind and grey rules, and not some fiery demon. Watching people fawn over him turns my stomach.

    As for child abuse in the church, what do you expect? Satan and his Popes, Protestant and Pentecostal pervy pedophile poofters have been running that operation since 1033, and the more rule bound and religious you are the more he likes it. But his 1000yr occupancy is up soon – the BOSS is coming back to possess His Body and to reap His harvest and to utterly destroy the hirelings who have persecuted and plundered the innocent, and to raze Esau as the stubble of the field, and to hound the dogs of the circumcision into their caves, and to replace that slithering serpentine spine Man calls a backbone with a rod of unbreakable iron. No wonder back problems, heart disease and cancer are rampant. It is from failure to discern the Body, not made with hands, forever in the heavens, the Temple of God, which is YOUR BODY!

  15. The illustration the Holy Spirit gave to me is that the Word which is WRIT ON OUR HEARTS is like a message on a T-shirt – in a mirror it appears back to front. To read it properly you have to see it with the eyes and mind of Him who wrote it. The flesh is a (darkened) mirror to us and from Man’s perspective everything seems back to front. Consider how it is if and when you get a revelation – it is like suddenly your understanding shifts 180 degrees, s to the GOSPEL being the power of God, becomes THE POWER OF GOD being the good news. To a starving man, a recipe is merely words on paper, not Manna from heaven nor Words of Life. For the kingdom of God is NOT IN WORD (alone), but in the DYNAMIC EXPRESSION OF (God’s) POWER! And the POWER OF GOD is The Lord Jesus Christ, who is the King and who is THE KINGDOM, and it is HIS GOOD PLEASURE to grant to you the (His) kingdom. Get it?

    Babylon is not so much people speaking different languages, it is that they do not understand each other as their own ambitions, lust and desires are what govern their hearts. Come out from among her, and be separate and touch not the unclean thing.

    Have the Mind of Christ and the Faith of God.

  16. Crumbs, Ian, you made paragraphs, and almost made sense, apart from the last comment!

    Must be the kiwi-fruit!

  17. Hey Steve, the Holy Spirit brought this to my remembrance – about how God deals with delusion.

    When we come to God with delusion in our hearts, which is when we are possessed of a wrong understanding, wrong doctrine, wrong conception of God; He answers us according to our delusion. When we come to God we must KNOW THAT HE IS, so what or who He we think that He is, but THAT HE IS, and that He is the rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.

    Now if we have a prejudice, a preconception, a principle, He will answer according to that, such that it may seem to us that He is ratifying our will and that we know His will. This however is the result of a TARE – a seed sown by the ENEMY, which is a MAN, or a SATAN – an adversary of God. But God deals with it by giving you word, whether by the Book, or by the Spirit, which will seem to ratify or reinforce your position, but in that SEED WORD OF FAITH, or word seed, is the very harvest of faith from which will come the very manna meal which will strengthen you, the message will bind the harvest of the Tare and burn it, such that He prepares a table for us in the midst of our enemies, our fifth column, the Tare(s) sown in our hearts.

    Here is a prime example. About 2001, my wife wanted to get a dog. I did not. She brought home an abandoned black and tan puppy, but I saw only red and things got a little black. I went and asked God what His will was and He said, immediately, “It is up to you.”

    Great – no dog, my will be done O Lord!.

    “Hang on, what do you mean, you decide?”

    “Well, you know My Will, don’t you?”

    “Do I?”

    “Yes you do, My will is Love (need I remind you?) – what would love do?”

    “Love would let her have the dog.”

    “That’s right”.

    She got the dog. After I had been knocked off my high horse I apologised to my wife and said that she may have the dog. I asked her if she had asked God what His will was? She said that she had and that He had said, “It it sup to you” – so she got the dog. I asked, did you ask what He meant by that? and she said no, she did not feel the need to.

    She got the dog, I got the lesson, my delusion was dealt with.

    Many years later, as I hugged the frail and failing form of our beloved Elmo as the vet euthanized him, I swear I saw one like unto the Son of Man run off into Paradise with our faithful pooch running along behind, full of puppy like exuberance.

    I cried hot tears of Joy and then Vet said, “There, there, its all right”.

    “Yes, I know, it is alright”

  18. Breaking that down, a while back a brother had a vision of my wife preaching – he said that she knew something about God that was so deep that not many knew it (well, she is Jewish on her gran’s side, of the House of Marlborough, no less). She married a commoner, and they don’t come much commoner than me.

    I asked her what this mystery was – she said you will need to hear it for yourself. It goes like this.

    He who comes to God MUST believe THAT HE IS, not WHAT He is, not WHO He is, but THAT HE IS, and THAT HE IS THE REWARDER OF ALL who diligently seek HIM. The reward is the revelation of Him, by which He is fulfilled in us as beloved children and by which we become perfected in LOVE.

    Just think of how you are with you own children and then multiply that about a zillion times, and then, like the ministering spirits who circle the throne, cry, HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO WILL EVER BE, HOLY, HOLY, HOLY.

    Can anyone say, IT IS SO and SO BE IT?

  19. And Greg, that is GOOOOOOOOOOOOD PREACHING! But God chose the foolishness of preaching and the preaching of fools, so that we may all grow thereby. I have learned much more from what people do wrong, myself included, than by what they appear to do right. By this means God breaks down every stronghold of the enemy.

  20. Ian I posted it becuase I don;t belive God speaks to people in the way you claim he speaks to you – I don’t believe that we are still in the apostolic age and I do believe that the so called age of miracles has passed…if in fact it ever existed…your claims fo miralces adn words from God and Kings and Wolfs and darkness is just mind bogglingly boring now. You can stop – we’ve all read your claims – none fo us agree with you – please go somewhere else and bore people – do that or post comments that deal with the articles that each thread is about – don;t post your nonsense prophecies – any more and I will delete them.

  21. Loving your paragraphs, Ian! Much easier to understand, even if the things you say aren’t sometimes. Appreciated.

    I don’t agree with you on this, Greg.

    There was no point in God ending the Apostolic age. The Church is Apostolic and Prophetic. Jesus has not ceased being the Chief Apostle, nor the Prophet Moses spoke of.

    He is not dead. He is the Head!

    He speaks to us today, by the Word, and by the Spirit.

    The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    If you attempt to adhere to the Word alone it will be as dry as a bone, but if you are led by the Spirit, you are more likely to hear it!

    Don’t hurry Ian away just as he’s learning to write in paragraphs. The next step is shorter comments with fewer conspiracy theories and religious experiences.

    In there somewhere Ian sometimes makes sense.

  22. I think it is possiubly true that God speaks to us apart from the bible, but never in anyway that is contradictory to the bible – so much so that one would have to wonder what the purpose of extra biblical ‘revelation’ could possibly be. Ian claims to have seen a person who was stone cold motherless dead raised back to life – that right there is not possible adn therefore can’t be true and I call it for what it is.

    Ian I have asked you previously to verify your assertions by giving us contact detaisl of people who can attest to your prophecies and miracles – you’ve failed to do so.

    Here I ask for name, date, place adn contadt detaisl for the person raised and their doctor – I want a death certificate.

    Now I know that none will be provided – no-one has ever been abel to verify a bon fide raising from the dead. DO you konw why? Because once you’re gone – you is gone!

    I don’t accept that just hearing from God through the Bible is suppressing the Spirit – it is indeed the Spirit who will lead us into the truth of the Bible I suggest.

  23. and Greg’s talking about real raising from the dead not the legends of Bonnke and Wigglesworth.

    Has there ever been an account of someone growing an amputated leg or arm back?

  24. Greg, I said he was as good as dead. He was hit by a car while exiting a manhole in Ferry Road, Christchurch, in the early morning about 8 or so years ago. His spine was broken in 5 places, and virtually every bone in his upper torso was shattered, including his skull. He was on life support and was going to be unplugged and Police expected to charge the woman driver with careless use causing death. So, in effect, he was past any human repair.

    The next morning, the Holy Spirit had woken me and told me to go downstairs, to do nothing else and to get the paper as there was a matter He wanted me to pray over. There was a story on the front page about the man, my first knowledge of the matter.

    I said, “What can I do” feeling totally useless. I heard, “Simply place your left hand on the article, raise your right and release faith. So I did as I was shown, and something like a rush of energy, of anointing Power rushed out of my inward parts, and at that moment I saw with my mind’s eye, the man put back together from his very DNA.

    Two weeks later he walked in to my shop to pick up his wedding rings – he was my client. His presence was so holy it made me feel quite unclean (hey, I know I am just a dirty old sinner). I did not even click that it was him until two more weeks later when his mother came up to me at a Bridal Show to thank me for making her son’s rings and then proceeded to tell me all about his miracle and how the doctors wanted him away from them as they were all freaking out.

    Some years later I asked a Post Grad medical researcher from the Hospital about the matter and if he had heard of it. he said, “Oh yeah, but they do not like to talk it about it all that much”.

    Miracles can do that to people, eh Greg? I actually feel sorry for you, a whole dimension of faith is closed to you, but you are the one holding the knob – let it go of it and ask Him in.

    I have seen so many miracles I have lost count of them – but the greatest miracle of all is when we truly lay down our lives, for in the day that you do, you will look up to everyone, like Jesus does.

    And Steve, just ask God if what I say is so. You guys may think I am crazy – but I may just be way ahead of you in the race to the prize – but thank God He is the Ox and the Mark, and none of us can kick against the goads of love.

    When our second son was born, the Pediatrician came to see us and said, “I have always wanted to see a medical miracle – and now I have – thank you – your son could only be alive by a miracle of God – there is no other explanation. He was conceived miraculously, at 6mths the placenta detached and Rachel was rushed to hospital to be prepped for an emergency C-Section.

    While the doctors were readying themselves and the theatre, our first son and I prayed with her and God did a miracle and reattached the placenta. He was later born with a full knot in his chord and it was wrapped around his throat. But I am sure you have some argument for that too – but both of these cases are verified miracles. And then there was the young lady who asphyxiated in a fire, was dead for twenty minutes, flat-lined and on life support, and who walked out two weeks after her friends had me pray for her. The power of God that got loose that day was something else. And there are more – kids healed from cancer, a child snatched by an angel from the path of a train, broken spines and lives…and that is only me, I know others like me who have had similar things happen.

    I am sorry if I vex you with my stories Greg, but quite frankly, your unbelief gives me the…speaking of which, Paul said that we should count all things as dung that we might win Christ.

  25. By the way Steve, and maybe Greg, and for you Q – about 5yrs after the miracle of the mangled man, I asked Jesus what that was all about – how come he got such a profound healing, and how come, seeing as he was a really decent Christina man to begin with, did it happen to him?

    The answer was this. It was his mother and fiance’s faith which was central to the result, I was merely the intercessor – the link – and as for him, he was a type of what had happened to the Body of Christ – run down and left like road kill by a woman who “worked nights”. I do not know is she was a prostitute but it seemed to be indicated by the available evidence and the irony of the matter.

    That the Father could raise him up and rebuild him from his very DNA was a metaphor for what God is going to do with His Body in the earth, run down by harlots and left for dead, he shall raise it up and restore the Body to its rightful standing.

    So Greg, are you the arbiter of what is acceptable here? If that is so, then Pope it is. I can verify what I say from the Book, all of it, but maybe not from your own peculiar perspective of it.

    In the last day, men shall become mockers etc., and apostasy will become endemic. I asked Teacher what to define apostasy and heard “It is nothing more than having your own opinion instead of having the Mind of Christ.” We see from our own viewpoint, and if that be earthly, then it is sensual and devilish – of the senses and of your father, the devil as Jesus chided the Pharisees. If it is from where we are seated together with Him in the heavens at the Right of Majesty on High (that’s in the Bible Greg) then we are graced to see things from His Holy perspective.

    I do not pretend to have attained, but I press on toward the Mark of my high calling in Him. He is the MARK as distinct from the mark of a man, which is the mark of the beast – 666 – the number of a man. For you savor of the things of man…

    Its like one of those 3 D pictures – everyone is saying “Can’t you see?” and you are going “But it cannot be because I cannot see.” In the end they just give up and leave you to your 2 dimensional world of words on pages or you fake it so you don’t feel left out. Only when the scales are removed do we see – and when it happened to me – it knocked me for 6 – right out of the park and right out of the religious game.

    I reach out to others like Q and Steve who are believe God is, and that He is the rewarder of those that seek Him with all their heart, and that means all the dung being swept out. And I am no different in that respect – after I went to heaven and was given a prayer from the throne in 2001 – the next day I felt so filthy that I doubted my own salvation, until Teacher showed me a snapshot of the dusty attic of my inner life, full of all the old junk I had not thrown out. Where all my dirt and junk was kept.

    A few years later, He and me really got into it with a sledgehammer, but that is another story, and believe me, I have hundreds, if not thousands…like the time…

    A theologian is like a microbe looking up a microscope at the distant eye, trying to figure it all out. Simply know that God is and that He is His own revelation. Desire is captivity – desire only Jesus – your husbandman and King. Agree with me Greg that God will correct each of us as dear children, for whom God loves, he corrects. Just agree, if not with me, with God. OK?

  26. and what Greg’s after is specifics. Sorry but just saying a man had an accident and he was miraculously healed is all a bit ambiguous. I’ve seen enough charlatans and youre just another.

    btw i’ve heard a lot about miracles in hospitals in NZ. It seems fairly common over there.

  27. Wow. Such judgment. Of course we have many miracles – we have some people with deep faith here. But we do send the rejects to OZ and the US. Good thing I don’t charge for this, then you might have a case, but I am no hireling and no charlatan or Fakir.

    How more concise do I have to be? If I get you the precise details of the date and who he was would that satisfy you?

    No it would not, any more than Jesus walking on water would win Herod, and the reason I know that is that I also know that you and probably Greg would not know the Truth is you stumbled over Him.

    Time to dust off the slippers methinks.

    Enjoy your Armageddon, ‘cos armageddon ouda here.

    Please excuse my naivety, I thought this was a site for followers of the Lord Jesus Christ to grow in faith.

    I guess I cannot be right about everything. 0(:->)

  28. So your having a sulk and a sook becausr you were asked for specifics.

    Like were supposed to believe everything supposed super christians say they do. Because they met Jesus. Well plenty of catholics and pentecostals have said that over the years. And Joseph Smith, the mormon guy.

    btw You’re not Jesus.

  29. No sulk – just incredulous that you would think I would make such claims without them being verifiable. I will see what I can do, just for you – and for the record, I am kind of with you over Rabin. I deal with Jewish people – most of them think Christians are useful idiots. But if you show a demonstrable gift, they see you as a lost sheep of Israel.

    Isaac Mostovicz PhD, is visiting fellow at Northumbria University, a man with more degrees than a thermometer, who learns a new language every two years, has 5 kids and a wife, is a Sensei in Karate and only in his early 50’s. I prayed for his stroke paralyzed father-in-law, Shullum Muller, who had a miracle in a Tel Avis hospital. Let me tell you what happened.

    I was arranging for a diamond shipment when Isaac emailed me to say that he had to make a mercy dash to Israel as his father-in-law was critically ill after a massive stroke. It happened in Antwerp but the best hospitals and doctors are in Israel. Inspired by the Ruach ha Kodesh, I wrote and asked him if he wanted me to pray – his reply, “That would be beautiful”.

    So I asked Father, “What now?” I mean, the HS compels me to pray and again I feel useless – what can I do? NOTHING, but I know someone who can. So I simple opened my heart and Father showed me how. I saw and did – and spun around to the left and my hand shot out before me, as if powered by another, and as it did, the Shekinnah formed before me and my hand went through the cloud and touched a man in a hospital bed in Tel Aviv. I actually saw him. and felt the touch. Then it was done. The rush of virtue that came out was phenomenal. It was so quickly I did not have time to doubt.

    The next day he walked out of hospital, completely healed. He reported that the Hand of God had healed him as he lay paralyzed. Isaac sent me a thank you email – it said one word – “Thanks.”

    Perhaps if I got a testimonial from him?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Mostovicz

    But he would probably just dismiss you as an idiot. The reason why he accepts me as an Israelite of the Spirit is that God told him to, and I he said to me once, “When you speak to me it is as if you are reading my mind.” Actually, the reason why I have camped here for this short season is for the like so of Q.

    How on earth I will ever manifest Boner Fides that will satisfy you and Greg I do not know – I fear your unbelief is too entrenched. I know Pastors like you here – I see their churches dying.

    You need to go back and read my piece on how God sends delusion from before the throne. Really, you do. Stop just skimming for what you perceive as scum and actually take the time to read – you may actually learn something.

    And besides BONES, if poofters want to get married, what’s it to you? It has no validity with God that I know of so it is pure vanity. Read Revelation 17:17 – it nails it. Besides, sodomy is much more prevalent amongst hetero’s than gays – and it seems to be a religion in Amerika and Germany. 0(:->)

  30. I really like Ian’s posts. I’m with Steve – there’s some gems in there.
    Even Bones comes up with some good stuff when he’s not furiously copying and pasting from leftwing nutbag sites….:)

  31. “Popes, Protestant and Pentecostal pervy pedophile poofters”

    That’s not a gem … but man, who else do you know who talks like that.

    I have a couple of friends who have lots of stories like Ian – just sound too good to be true. But they’re great guys and come up with stuff that I’ve never even thought of – so I have a measure of respect without having to accept everything they say.

    The danger with many people who are prophetic is they can start to think everything they think or feel is gospel. I like Ian because his love for God, and willingness to obey God’s leading are just so obvious.

    And, you can tell by his writing that he’s brilliant.
    But some brilliant people come across weird to most people.

    Interesting that his work is with diamonds and jewelry. He’s working on a level of beauty and creativity that most people don’t touch.

  32. An eccentric always causes quite buzz. I have a gift to write – sometimes it is just me playing with words – like the pedophile thing, but when it gets slick is when God just drops a word bomb into my heart and it explodes.

    The diamond is the stone of Judah. It is utterly obdurate – there is no harder stone, yet it is pure carbon and has no light of its own. It transmits the light it encounters, separating it into spectral shards of dancing light.

    God gave me a vision of a rough diamond, which He polished into a perfect gem – I could feel the heat of the friction (diamonds can glow red hot during cutting) and felt the pain of the perfecting – no gain without pain folks – no easy rides to redemption. It is a narrow path, a narrowing Way.

    He is wanting to perfect us in Love, to be fulfilled in us as Father.

    He gave me another vision of Him as the Seven Facet Jewel and of how we are made in His image. The first installment of this was received in late 1982 – the latest only recently, and unfolding revelation over 30yrs.

    One thing I have encountered is that with the revelations comes the persecution – if you seek to be conformed to the image of Jesus then the world will set out to destroy you. It is not the unbelievers who are the problem, they just think you are nuts and laugh behind you back, or even to your face.

    It is religious folks. In 2001 I wrote an essay which caused a huge furor in Christian circles, and because of which I came under attack. Only looking back did I see how it played out.

    It woke me up to a world of seething hatred concealed under a thin veneer of civilization. I was to find out that my tribulations came from the highest levels. It was only then did I realize the deep, deep abiding hatred of the Jews against Jesus.

    I will post the testimony on the Rabbi Proof fence (that cracks me up, I loved that movie, I cried like a baby from virtually start to finish after that my wife convinced me to watch it).

  33. Hey Bones, take away the fear of hell and the whole Church protection racket falls down. Its just the Marian Mafia at work. Dante has a lot to answer for. LOL.

  34. “Church protection racket”

    Speaking of diamonds Ian – I have a friend who thinks he’s good at going to 2nd hand stores and buying and selling diamonds and jewelry and stuff.

    How much do you have to learn before you would really know the worth of diamonds – and just whether stuff is fake or not?

  35. It is a whole big subject – but some people are canny – I know of one lady who paid her way through Bible school by buying stuff on Ebay and re-listing it on TradeMe. She data mined me without me realizing her intent – clever little Christian.

    The most important thing is to get out of debt before 2015, maybe sooner. But I also sense that God is going to speed things up for the sake of the elect – have you noticed how times seems to be flying past, faster and faster? That is not only due to the age/doppler effect but is the time being shortened.

    You could buy my stock – got a spare million lying around?

  36. Coming back to this question because i remembered the amount of times people have told me that God told them to do something – whether it’s marry someone, or join a company, or church, only to change their minds within a short period of time.

    If God speaks to people I think we have to admit that most people aren’t really good at hearing.
    Even the pros who are on TV – Pat Robertson etc.
    And while we all claim that God speaks to us about mundane stuff – for some reason He doesn’t tell people about the tsunami, plane crash that happens the next day.

    I knew a guy who “practiced” beiing open to words of knowledge and sensing things in the spirit by trying to guess which elevator would arrive first.

    Having written that I realize I’ve spent a lot of time with strange people.

  37. God doesn’t seem to say a lot about world hunger, war, suffering to people.

    I have heard He’s pretty good at finding a car park though.

  38. Steve you are right – God is broadcasting His Word all the time – it is people who are tuned to another frequency. Jesus said My Sheep hear My Voice, and the voice of another shepherd they shall (should) not hear – that’s should not, not will not. There is a huge difference. If you have hearing ears, then you know the voice of the imposter – the one who stands as god in the temple of God which you are. This abomination is a belief system which has a form of godliness but which prevents or denies The Power.

    This is a big subject but in essence that “voice” that people so often hear thinking that it is the Father is in fact the nature of the father (of lies) – the flesh generated ego – the heart of Man which is deceitful more than anything else. When you really hear from the Father, boy do you know it – there is no, “Hey, do you think that was God?”

    The Holy Spirit tends to speak in whispers and then with greater clarity as you become attuned. I have preached in reverential whispers, so impacted by the presence of God and of how words seemed to be such inadequate, unfit vessels and only there to get people to that place of opening their hearts to heaven’s invasion – for all shall (should) know Me, from the greatest to the least.

    The more we relinquish the programming which our sects, cults, churches etc. have installed in our hard drive, then the more that the New Leaven of Truth drives out the old and the more clearly one hears. Trouble is we keep trying to de-frag and clean the drive when what we really need is a NEW operating system, lest we try to put New patches on an old garment (ragment?) or New Wine in an old wineskin.

    Most people prefer to stick with the Old system that they are used to, familiar with, and to patch betimes with some NEW revelation, but the end of that is inevitable – it is called double-mindedness.

    Paul promised that we have the Mind of Christ (1 Cor 2). The Mind of Christ is the New Operating System of faith. But you cannot remain “in the flesh” and in the Spirit – it creates its own tension and eventually cleaving or separation and people become cut off from grace and struggle in the cages of carnality of their own confinement, snared by Satan, until God grants them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth and they get a “breakthrough”, which is really more of a let-in, as in “Behold, I stand at the door and knock…”

    Jesus said that He spoke to “THEM” in PARABLES so that while seeing, they may not see and hearing they may not hear – as in Isaiah – here a little there a little, line upon line, so that they may go and fall backwards and be snared…Preachers always leave that part out. Line upon line suits the Nicolaitans – it keeps them in a job and you in bondage. If you read that text in Isaiah you will find that God actually wants to be able to talk to you plainly but to do so He will send a messenger from the Altar with a hot coal to cleanse your conversation – so we might talk directly to
    God without shame.

    The other critical factor is MAN-ipulation – he is the Potter and we the clay, but if we get to messing with His clay then we get the dirt of humanity on our hands and we shall not ascend into the mountain of the Lord with unclean hands.

    It comes down to who you know to be God. Is it that little g god of the knowledge of good and evil, the fruit of the flash which is death? The one who stands in the Holy place making out like he is God? Or is it the real deal? How do you know the real deal? BY THE FRUIT! The fruit of the Tree of Life is LIFE, and LIFE MORE ABUNDANTLY. The fruit of the tree of judgment is DEATH!

    Jesus said MY WORDS are LIFE to those that find them.

  39. “It’s not that God isn’t speaking. More that they are not listening.”

    Probably because we listen from morning to night to radio, TV, podcasts, blogs, commentaries, our own reasonings, opinions of friends and enemies and critics.

  40. Yes Q – the NEW WINESKIN, or is it the RENEWED WINE SKIN? Now there is a debate worth having. 0(:->)

  41. It’s weird isn’t it.

    That God seems more interested in getting a Christian a car park or telling them which chick to hook up with then saving Christians who are starving and in danger around the world.

Comments are closed.