Nalliah? Do not vote for this idiot!

Of race, religion and politics

by John Elder – 10/03/13, 3:00 AM
Photograph Meredith O'Shea. 280113.The Sunday Age.Photograph shows. National President of Rise Up Australia Political Party - Daniel Nalliah

National president of Rise Up Australia, Danny Nalliah, left, and below speaking at the election campaign launch in Hallam.

With its anti-Islam, anti-multicultural stance, Danny Nalliah’s Rise Up Australia Party has been compared to One Nation. But will its policies win seats in the Senate?

The most interesting thing about Pastor Danny Nalliah isn’t that he reportedly raises people from the dead, or that Jesus talks to him in dreams, or even that he wants every school to be issued with a wooden spoon for the smacking of naughty bottoms – it’s that his moral authority as a politician comes from the colour of his skin.

He both affirmed and joked about it recently at the Victorian launch of his Rise Up Australia Party. During his speech, Nalliah told a story of being interviewed by an SBS journalist who asked if the party, which is stridently anti-Islamic and calls for an end to multiculturalism, was just another Pauline Hanson white-Australia affair.

”Of course,” said Nalliah, whose voice has an unfortunate tendency to become high-pitched when speech-making, ”he couldn’t see me because I was on the telephone. The fact is, he didn’t realise he was born in the day and I was born at night. I said … the man you’re talking to is a black fellow.”



The congregation laughed and clapped, and was then made part of the joke. When the hooting died down, Nalliah continued: ”I said this is not a white Australia Party. More than a third of our members are of non-Anglo-Saxon origin.”

True enough. Among the 100 or so people gathered in Nalliah’s church hall at Hallam – he heads both the fledgling party and the Catch the Fire Ministry – was a healthy sprinkling of black and Asian faces. Nalliah says there are 30 ethnic groups among his followers. ”We have Fijians, Samoans, Arabs, Africans, Chinese, Indians, Pakistanis … so many, and they all feel the same way,” he said.

Do they feel the same way as Pauline Hanson? ”I admire many of her policies. Is she a racist? I honestly don’t know. I don’t think so, and I think maybe racist was a word used to cut her off. But when a man of colour says much the same thing, it’s not so easy to call him a racist. It’s confusing for people. And really, what did Pauline Hanson believe in? Australia for all Australians: a fair go for everyone and no one coming into our country to change the laws to suit themselves. That’s it.”

The Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus and Jews are apparently cool on this front. It’s the Muslims – of the beheading, jihadist persuasion – who need to be kept in check, says Nalliah and his multicoloured friends. ”We love the Muslim people,” Nalliah tells me. ”It’s Islam that’s the problem.”

From a number of interviews and meetings with Nalliah over the past three weeks, it became clear that the real problem with Muslims, no matter how worthy of Christian love they may be, is that they can’t be trusted.

Several times I put questions to Nalliah of this sort: what about a Muslim who presents himself to you as a peaceful person with no ambitions of taking over the joint? His answer was always a variation of: ”I would have trouble believing him. If he lives by the Koran, he is duty-bound to live under sharia law and have nothing to do with Christians or Jews or anyone who isn’t a Muslim. Most of the Koran is about how to treat the infidels. Only a small percentage is about love.”

This tough line is echoed by Nalliah’s followers, many of whom claimed to have Muslim mates who are all good blokes – but could be turned if a jihad was called.

The issue came up soon after walking into the hall. Lyn Hannie, doing the meet and greet, was ”very excited about the great things under way to protect Australia. We don’t want to follow in Europe’s tracks.” She was referring to problems in England and France where Muslim hardliners have set up de facto Islamic-law zones and been conducting patrols that bully locals into forgoing alcohol and dressing modestly.

Lyn’s husband, Alabama-born Gary, 62, was MC at the launch. He runs a private Christian mission in south-east Asia, and serves as a pastor at Nalliah’s church. ”The Islamic issue is at the forefront at the moment and it needs to be. I’m an American but I don’t want Australia to look like America. I don’t think any culture should want to come in and change the face of Australia to look like their own.”

I mention an Australian Institute of Family Studies report that analyses a push for Islamic law in Australia. In the conclusion, it notes that Professor Abdullah Saeed, director of the National Centre of Excellence for Islamic Studies, believes the Australian legal framework has enough room to accommodate Islamic values. Saeed is an active reformer of Islam. Wouldn’t it be more constructive for the Rise Up Australia Party to build a few bridges with guys like Saeed, rather than writing off an entire system of belief and its people?

Gary Hannie’s reply left the conversation with nowhere to go: ”I’m not an expert on the Koran. But my understanding is that a Muslim person can say whatever they like, whatever is true or untrue, as long as it serves the cause of Islam moving forward.”

Which is another way of saying what Nalliah preaches: you can’t trust Muslims to tell the truth.

Malaysian-born John Chee is the Rise Up Australia Party’s voluntary bookkeeper. He and his wife, Maggie, were called by God from their ”comfortable life” on the Gold Coast to join Nalliah’s church. ”I didn’t know there was going to be a political party here. But here we are.”

Chee is ”personally afraid of Muslims”, an attitude shaped, he says, by witnessing the outbreak of sectarian violence in Malaysia in 1969 as a young man. Maggie, a teacher, was turned off when she heard that Muslim children were dissuaded from playing with non-Muslim children.

Anthony Moore, 62, was the Labor candidate for Flinders in 1990. He lost to Peter Reith. He and his Fijian wife, Kelera, are now Rise Up members. Moore is concerned ”with the global strategy for Islam to conquer the world”. Are all Muslims part of this plan? He feels they ”play their cards close to their chest, will come out to befriend you, but it changes down the track” when they get control at a local or state level and attempt to introduce ”draconian laws” that lead to ”ethnic cleansing, suburb by suburb”.

Come the September election, Rise Up plans to field 52 candidates in the House of Representatives, and 12 in the Senate. ”It may be more than that as the year goes on,” says Moore. He isn’t throwing his hat in the ring. But that might change ”if circumstances permit”.

Apart from abstaining from veils and same-sex relationships, Rise Up candidates are required to have God – the Christian God – on their side. Hence, there is no great distinction between the church and the party. For 40 days before the launch, Nalliah says the members were urged to fast. ”For some this meant just drinking soup, others went without a meal or two meals a day … and there was a lot of praying.”

What were you praying for? ”That the media would take up our message honestly and accurately.”

Anthony and Kelera Moore took up this mission. After giving me a lift to a taxi stand, they asked to pray for me: ”Dear Lord, we ask you to bless John to tell the truth …”

Before the launch got under way, a number of older men wearing pocket badges labelled ”SECURITY” stood in a circle and were briefed on how to handle troublemakers. As people arrived, one or two would turn and welcome them in the name of the Lord until one of the older men advised that this was a political meeting, and the Jesus side of things had to be toned down. Soon after, however, the security men bowed their heads and prayed for a peaceful meeting.

After all, this was the same week anti-Islamic Dutch politician Geert Wilders was in town, his meeting marked by rowdy protests. (Nalliah says, if elected, he will be consulting with the Dutch politician when formulating his multicultural policy.)

And, of course, the legacy of Hanson hysteria hung over the proceedings – those wild days 17 years ago when her meetings were besieged by huge crowds of protesters, and her often elderly followers were outright bullied and jostled.

The party’s prayers for peace were seemingly answered. No one turned up to throw stones. Good thing too, because Nalliah can sometimes sound like any bloke in a ute with the Southern Cross tattooed on his shoulder blades. At one point he thrilled the gathering with: ”If you don’t want to adopt the Australian way of life and respect Australian laws, then please, we beg you, go back to where you came from.”

The idea of migrants dancing around a totem pole of good old Aussie values – fair go, saying what you like, keeping your politics and religion in low gear – is, of course, nothing new. It was being hawked back in the 1980s by radio reactionaries such as the late Ron Casey, when Asian immigration was causing many a dinkum cobber to wonder what the country was coming to. The White Australia Policy had been formally dead for only a decade but it lived on with the attitude that white was still right.

When Nalliah and his family migrated to Australia from Sri Lanka in 1997, Pauline Hanson was a household name, the suburbs were simmering with tensions between newly arrived Serbs, Croats and Muslims all seeking refuge from the war they had been fighting against one another in the Balkans; the media was making hay with a rising knife culture that was largely blamed on Asian and Middle Eastern youth, and the country was undergoing a rapidly changing racial mix.

The Nalliahs were part of a conspicuous wave of dark-skinned immigrants from the subcontinent and Africa who have changed the way Australia looks at street level, and has challenged how we see ourselves.

Within five years, he was already causing controversy with his militant anti-Islam preaching, and planning a political career.

In December 2004, following a complaint from the Islamic Council of Victoria, Judge Michael Higgins ruled that Nalliah and another pastor, Daniel Scot, vilified Muslims at a seminar in 2002. In December 2006, the decision was overturned on appeal. ”Thanks be to Jesus,” Nalliah says now.

In 2004, he was on the number two spot on the Family First’s Senate ticket under Steve Fielding, who was elected with Labor preferences. Later that year, Fielding said Nalliah had been ejected from the party. Apparently he had made demeaning comments about gays.

Nalliah has derided Bob Brown for living openly as a homosexual. ”When I think of Bob Brown kissing another man on the mouth … it makes me sick,” he tells me.

In 2007, he met Peter Costello with a view to ”preparing” the then treasurer to take the top job from John Howard and lead the Liberal Party to victory. Nalliah says that Costello called him that year to congratulate him on the birth of his youngest daughter. On Australia Day 2009, Costello sent a video message of support to a Catch the Fire prayer meeting. The friendship went south a few weeks later, following the Black Saturday fires.

In an email on the Catch the Fire website, Nalliah said he had dreamt of the fires four months before they occurred and that Jesus had told him the fires were a result of ”His conditional protection” being lifted from Victoria following the legalisation of abortion in October 2008.

Costello damned the comments as being ”beyond the bounds of decency”. Nalliah was unrepentant. Last week, however, he told me he regretted the bushfire dream getting into the hands of the media as he felt it was ”probably” politically damaging.

”What got lost in translation was that Jesus blamed the churches for not making a stand against the abortion laws. He wasn’t being angry with the abortionists themselves, or the women who have aborted their babies. We love them, but we don’t love what they do. It was reported out of context.”

Nalliah talks of his great love for everyone. He has stories about helping some Muslim women stranded in the rain with a flat tyre. He carries their luggage through airports. And in the same soft voice of love he tells again how he can’t trust any of them to tell the truth.

What set Nalliah on this path of bringing down Islam and multiculturalism? He tells the story of how, in 1983 in Sri Lanka, when the Tamils began their futile war of liberation against the dominant Singhalese, mobs of the latter went on an ”ethnic-cleansing” riot against the Tamils. Nalliah’s family were Tamils. At the age of 20, newly turned to Christ, he came home to find his house surrounded by men carrying cans of petrol, swords, clubs and car tyres. They were calling for Nalliah’s parents to come out of the house.

Nalliah had that day, on his way home, seen 18 people set on fire. He says he immediately prayed to God and, soon after, a Buddhist-Singhalese woman appeared and threw herself in front of the mob. She said the Nalliahs were charitable people and demanded that they be left alone. The mob wandered off. This was Nalliah’s first miracle.

”The British left in 1948. My father says within six years the government had split everyone up into their ethnic groups. It was a terrible mistake. Ethnic ghettos are poison.”

In 1996, he was working for an underground Christian church in Saudi Arabia, smuggling Bibles into the country – a crime, he says, that was punishable by imprisonment, flogging or even beheading. One night 20 soldiers ”gave the dreaded knock on the door”. There were 400 Bibles stacked on his lounge room floor. His wife and children were sleeping in their beds. Calling on God, he says he confused the soldiers minds with prayer – such that they forgot why they were there – and they left soon after. This, too, was a miracle. At the Rise Up Australia Party launch, he reduced this story to one line: ”In Saudi Arabia, my wife was nearly raped and killed.”

While his personal history is a matter of awe for his followers, it’s the supernatural aspect that many think gives Nalliah his authority.

In 2010, The Agereported that Nalliah had raised a Wagga woman named Diana Shield from the dead. They had been on a bus tour of Israel. The claim was supported by a Christian doctor, anaesthetist Murray James-Wallace, who had failed to revive the woman.

Instead of a blocked artery, Nalliah believed the devil was the problem. He called out: ”In the name of Jesus, life return! Satan, you have no right to take this life on tour. Diana, come back, in Jesus’ name!” And she did.

Nalliah loosely chronicles other apparent resurrections and demon-castings in his self-published memoir Worship Under the Sword, about his conversion to Christianity and mission work in Saudi Arabia.

Dr Nick Economou, senior lecturer in the school of political and social inquiry at Monash University, suggests Nalliah ”ought to give Julia Gillard a call”. That is, perform a resurrection miracle for her political career.

Being a ”a man of love”, Nalliah might have obliged … if she wasn’t living in sin.

Beyond that, Economou believes Nalliah and company are wasting their time. ”I predict they won’t get their deposit back. All indications are there will be a landslide to the Coalition and very little left over for anyone else, especially from the centre of right.”

Dr Damon Alexander, from the University of Melbourne’s school of social and political sciences, is also dismissive. ”I’d put them in that category of far-right fringe groups that have been around for 70 years. They tend to be centred around a fuehrer-style leader and after a while fall apart.”

Associate Professor Haydon Manning, of Flinders University’s school of social and policy studies, feels that the Rise Up Australia Party might attract a few voters who regard the Coalition and Labor as on the nose. ”I looked at their website and they are very odd. You see this photo [of Nalliah and his multi-ethnic followers] and then you read what they have to say and you’d expect it to come from white middle-aged men.”

It’s that very point, says Nalliah, that may win him the three Senate seats that he feels ”hopeful for. At the very least.”

406 thoughts on “Nalliah? Do not vote for this idiot!

  1. “Last week, however, he told me he regretted the bushfire dream getting into the hands of the media as he felt it was ”probably” politically damaging.”

    Oh that’s what’s important isn’t it. That it’s not politically damaging. Not the fact that it was false or bollocks.

    Oh and that’s Doctor Nalliah too.

  2. Are you sure he’s an “idiot” bones?

    How much of the Koran have you personally read?

    Do you know what taqiyya is and why the John Elder has not written about it?

    Do you know, really know why Theo Van Gogh is dead?

    Bones? – You possibly want me to make no bones about it? I believe you are a fool. That’s my belief system.

    Of course maybe you could write us an essay on taqiyya and Western Jurisprudence – but I doubt that. I doubt John Elder could either.

    You’re too busy being fixated with very little pictures – IMHO. cheers

  3. “Are you sure he’s an “idiot” bones?”

    I didn’t say that but you’re not far from the truth.

    And out come the Islamophobes.

    This is a guy who was too wacky and got expelled from Family First.

    But yeah the guys a retard and needs to be kept well away from government.

    Firstly the floods in Qld were caused by Rudd criticising Israel.

    Danny Nalliah blames Kevin Rudd for QLD floods

    Danny Nalliah blogs…

    “Dear family & friends in Christ,

    It is 11.50pm on Friday night the 7th of January (2011). You might wonder what I am doing in my office at this time. Well we are all at the all night prayer meeting at the CTFM base. We started the prayer meeting at 7.30pm and would be finishing at 6am but this issue was so urgent, I thought I must get the info out to you as soon as possible, so that we can repent on behalf of Australia.

    Around 8pm on Friday night the 7th of January we had a strong prompting by the Holy Spirit to repent on behalf of Australia. As we started doing so, I was reminded that every time America went against Israel, there was disaster in the land and this has been documented over the years.

    Then at once I was reminded of Kevin Rudd speaking against Israel in Israel on 14th December 2010. It is very interesting that Kevin Rudd is from QLD. Is God trying to get our attention? Yes, I believe so.

    Also the Lord said to us, “ I will humble Australia and bring her down on her knees. As she has taken pride in my blessing, and man has taken the glory and not given it to Me”.

    Right now (12.30am – just after midnight) around 40 intercessors are crying out to the Lord and repenting on behalf of what Rudd has done against Israel. When I opened my email to write to you, I found the following email in my inbox and was amazed as to how God spoke to us about the same issue.

    I have pasted below an article that some media are running with – BUT – only Bill Koenig has picked up the “spiritual ramifications” of this event & has been able to link it to the devastating floods in Queensland….Kevin Rudd’s home state!

    Now Danny blames the Victorian bushfires on abortion laws

    Nalliah wins ‘Gold Ernie’

    Australian Associated Press reports…

    “An evangelical church pastor who blamed the Victorian bushfire tragedy on the state’s abortion laws has taken out the annual top gong for sexist comments.

    Now in its 17th year, the Ernie Awards are bestowed on those whose public utterings are regarded as the most sexistThe winner is determined by how loud the crowd boos and hissesAbout 250 women who attended the gala event at NSW Parliament House on Wednesday decided that comments by Pastor Danny Nalliah, head of the Catch the Fire Ministries, were worthy of the top prize, the Gold ErnieShortly after the deadly February bushfires, the pastor said: “God’s conditional protection has been removed from the nation of Australia, in particular Victoria, for approving the slaughter of innocent children in the womb

  4. And the icing on the cake

    Danny Nalliah’s ‘gold dust’ fraud
    Melbourne-based Pentecostal preacher Danny Nalliah reports that ‘gold dust’ has manifested at healing services in outer suburban Hallam.

    “Throughout the duration of the meetings members of Catch The Fire prayer team were praying in the prayer room, some receiving gold-dust and the oil of the Spirit on their palms, remaining after the meeting closed at midnight. Pastor Danny said, “Previously, I had been unsure of these particular supernatural manifestations, but now I know they are really from the Spirit of the Lord!”

    The Revival meetings now will continue each night (except Wednesdays) until further notice: week nights at 7.30pm with weekends at 6.30pm. Please continue to check website for constant updates and photos, including the leaflet for printing and distributing throughout your church, friends and family, on the Revival Outpouring in Melbourne being held at Christian Community Church, 30 Star Crescent, in Hallam.”…ice/#more-1311

    Unfortunately, the ‘gold dust’ trick was debunked years ago in the US.

    So without mentioning Muslims, Nalliah is a complete wacko.

  5. Are you a doctor Bones?

    Like a Star Trek fan and a qualified Medic?

    Perhaps you have some specialty – like in making psychiatric assessments? Ever worked in a CAT team?

    Out come the Islamophiles! – or serious genuflectors to some anonymous entity. Enjoy a bit of exegenesis do you?

    Ever lived in the Middle East? Saudi Arabia for example?

    You’re all over the place bones – but I didn’t expect much – and yeah, you delivered on cue!

    Come on, cough up, what other, stereo types, flying pigs, and other miscellaneous dissembling straw men can you jam into a blog? Maketh my day, Bones. Haven’t laughed this much since the last ad hominem piece I read.

  6. Nothing ad hominem there, the guys a maniac.

    Just because he hates Muslims doesn’t mean he’ll be a credible politician.

    But hey if that’s what rocks your boat then vote for him.

    Just to make you happy, I’ve had family in Afghanistan shooting Mussies.

    Live long and prosper.

    He’s dead, Jim. Like Nalliah’s political career. He’ll go the way of Fred Nile.

  7. Well you’re quite a clinician Bones – is his mania primary hypothyroidism and do you harbour some differential diagnosis?

    Perhaps you could write him a referral as a sort of pro bono initiative?

    “credible politician” – please spare me the oxymoronica. Speilberg and co had to go back to Lincoln for a political hero.

    And one isn’t a politician prior to being in executive government or sitting in a parliament. He remains a candidate.

    But do go on. Were Queensland’s floods or Victoria’s bush fires evidence of climate change? Anthropomorphism? Men upset the balance of the biosphere and now are reaping the consequences of their human indiscretions. Is that the science you wish people will absorb?

    Is the weather in “your world” a man made event? Something which a god, an upset and frustrated Gaia perhaps, couldn’t affect, even if she wanted to? Is mother nature sympathetic to your weather changing aspirations.

    I really do wish to dissect you bones. Precisely though, in bright broad spectrum lighting, surgical conditions.

    Ps. If you read the article you might have picked up that he loves Muslims – and rejects Islam. But I don’t suppose you got to those bits. And perhaps your family are fighting Taliban rather than shooting “Mussies” per se.

  8. F##k off Danny. Go and find a mosque to burn.

    “Catch the Fire …. the idiocy of Danny Nalliah

    One of my favourite wingnuts made the news today for predictable reasons… his idiotic hate and hypocrisy.

    Danny Nalliah of Catch the Fire Ministries is opposing a planned mosque being built next to his planned church. His reported reasons as for opposing the mosque were staggering:

    “We don’t approve of Islam as a religion but we love Muslim people. Islam teaches that those who follow other religions are infidels.

    “It is a religion that doesn’t value freedom of religion. Having those same teachings right under our noses is counter-productive to our church.”

    He said that homes vacated by “fed-up” neighbours would be bought up by Muslims, creating a “sharia [the moral code and religious law of Islam] zone”.

    Can you see the number of contradictions uttered here?

    Christianity speaks of those who follow false Gods as does Islam. Most religions condemn those who don’t follow their dogma.

    He wants to protect freedom of religion by opposing the freedom of another religion? He seems to struggle with this concept of freedom of religion. He probably opposes secularism as a tool of the devil. (I have a whole blog on opposing secularism begging to be written.) If he truly supported freedom of religion he would support it for all religions and freedom from religion.

    He fears a strict sharia zone in the area, even though he favours a strict Christian doctrine for all Australians.

    His hypocrisy knows no bounds. His hate for Islam is endless.

    None of this is surprising though. He has a long history of idiocy. The lowlight of which was blaming Victoria’s Black Saturday Bushfires of 2009 on that state legalising abortion in 2008.”

  9. Baring the knuckles now Bones? I can see the one thing you hate passionately is intolerance? Ever wondered how that works Bones?
    Can you name any of those 39 Australians who died in Afghanistan by the way? Maybe you can say exactly what they died for? You’re all over it. Which cheek of Hamid Karzai wouldn’t you immediately kiss?

    Obviously there isn’t any FGM or honour killing in your neighbourhood – you’d be shocked.

    In your non discriminating world can you differentiate between Wahhabi, Sunni, Shia, Sufi, BaHai

    Is Islamophilia a sort of progressive left wing Age reader’s thingy?

    Having determined the “weather gods” aren’t offended then are you satisfied that your “credible politicians” can change the weather by taxing you?

    And is your trailer park within walking distance of a Mosque then? Is multi cultic non discerning non discriminatory Australia your wide eyed vision of utopia then?

    And that essay on taqiyya and Western Jurisprudence? You were onto that like a fly to sticking paper.

    So your a wide eyed multi cultic secularist preaching non discerning tolerance of everything except intolerance – without a single commitment to detail of any description – except you’re a pro abortion flag waver.

    Champion in your world Bones – no doubt about it – you forged Australia as it now is. Your fingerprints all over it.

  10. ADF personnel deployed to Afghanistan killed in action

    There have been 39 operational deaths in Afghanistan. Further details about each is available on the battle casualties pages. Soldiers killed in action are:

    Sergeant Andrew Russell, SASR, died of wounds sustained when his patrol vehicle struck an anti-tank mine on 16 February 2002.
    Trooper David Pearce, 2/14 LHR QMI, was killed when his ASLAV was struck by an Improvised Explosive Device on 8 October 2007.
    Sergeant Matthew Locke, SASR, was killed by Taliban insurgent small-arms fire on 25 October 2007.
    Private Luke Worsley, 4RAR (Cdo), was killed by Taliban insurgent small-arms fire on 23 November 2007.
    Lance Corporal Jason Marks, 4RAR (Cdo), was killed by Taliban insurgent small-arms fire on 28 April 2008.
    Signaller Sean McCarthy, SASR, was killed when the vehicle he was travelling in was struck by an Improvised Explosive Device on 8 July 2008.
    Lieutenant Michael Fussell, 4RAR (Cdo), was killed by an Improvised Explosive Device during a dismounted patrol on 27 November 2008.
    Private Gregory Sher, 1st Commando Regiment, was killed in a rocket attack on 4 January 2009.
    Corporal Mathew Hopkins, 7th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment, was killed during an engagement with the Taliban on 16 March 2009.
    Sergeant Brett Till, Incident Response Regiment, was killed by an Improvised Explosive Device during a route clearance task on the 19 March 2009.
    Private Benjamin Ranaudo, 1st Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device on 18 July 2009.
    Sapper Jacob Moerland, 2nd Combat Engineer Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 7 June 2010.
    Sapper Darren Smith, 2nd Combat Engineer Regiment died of wounds sustained during an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 7 June 2010.
    Private Timothy Aplin, 2nd Commando Regiment died as a result of a helicopter crash on 21 June 2010.
    Private Scott Palmer, 2nd Commando Regiment died as a result of a helicopter crash on 21 June 2010.
    Private Benjamin Chuck, 2nd Commando Regiment died of wounds sustained in a helicopter crash on 21 June 2010.
    Private Nathan Bewes, 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device on 9 July 2010.
    Trooper Jason Brown, SASR, died as a result of gunshot wounds sustained in an engagement with insurgents on 13 August 2010.
    Private Tomas Dale, 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 20 August 2010.
    Private Grant Kirby, 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 20 August 2010.
    Lance Corporal Jared MacKinney, 6th Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment, was killed during an engagement with insurgents on 24 August 2010.
    Corporal Richard Atkinson, 1st Combat Engineer Regiment, was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 2 February 2011.
    Sapper Jamie Larcombe, 1st Combat Engineer Regiment, was killed during an engagement with insurgents on 19 February 2011.
    Sergeant Brett Wood, MG, DSM, 2nd Commando Regiment, was killed by an Improvised Explosive Device during a dismounted patrol on 23 May 2011.
    Lance Corporal Andrew Jones, 9th Force Support Battalion, died of wounds as a result of a small-arms fire incident on 30 May 2011.
    Lieutenant Marcus Case, 6th Aviation Regiment, died of wounds sustained in a helicopter crash on 30 May 2011.
    Sapper Rowan Robinson, Incident Response Regiment, died as a result of gunshot wounds sustained in an engagement with insurgents on 06 June 2011.
    Sergeant Todd Langley, 2nd Commando Regiment, was killed during an engagement with insurgents on 4 July 2011
    Private Matthew Lambert, 2nd Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment, died of wounds as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device strike on 22 August 2011.
    Captain Bryce Duffy, 4th Regiment, Royal Australian Artillery, was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 October 2011.
    Corporal Ashley Birt, 6th Engineer Support Regiment, was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 October 2011.
    Lance Corporal Luke Gavin, 2nd Battalion, The Royal Australian Regiment died of wounds as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 October 2011.
    Sergeant Blaine Flower Diddams from the Special Air Service Regiment was killed during a small arms engagement with insurgents on 02 July 2012.
    Sapper James Martin, 2nd Combat Engineer Regiment was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 August 2012.
    Lance Corporal Stjepan Milosevic, 2nd/14th Light Horse Regiment (QMI), was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 August 2012.
    Private Robert Poate, 6th Battalion, the Royal Australian Regiment was killed as a result of a small-arms incident on 29 August 2012.
    Private Nathanael Galagher, 2nd Commando Regiment was killed in a helicopter crash on 30 August 2012.
    Lance Corporal Mervyn McDonald, 2nd Commando Regiment was killed in a helicopter crash on 30 August 2012.
    Corporal Scott Smith, Special Operations Engineer Regiment, was killed as a result of an Improvised Explosive Device on 21 October 2012.

  11. Sorry Greg the Explorer,
    If we follow a scientific method one should discriminate. To whom is your appellation targeted? Philip George or Phillip George(c)2013.

    If a nurse at the blood bank made a mistake like that someone could die – or a wrong limb get amputated. It happens, it really happens.

  12. “except you’re a pro abortion flag waver.”

    I’m anti-abortion.

    But hey in your world, you make up your own reality.

    Amazing that when Islam gets mentioned out come the nutters who are ‘experts’ on the Koran.

    Don’t know about taqiyya. Is that a middle eastern food? I do like tequila.

    I have an intense dislike of all forms of fundamentalism which wants to shape our society into their god’s image. Including militant Islam and your retarded mate, Danny.

  13. “You see this photo [of Nalliah and his multi-ethnic followers] and then you read what they have to say and you’d expect it to come from white middle-aged men”

    Yeah, and that’s what people can’t understand or stand.

    If this guy is so uncapable of getting votes, I’m surprised people need to attack him so much.

    In the end, he will be similar to Pauline Hanson. Lots of Australians agree with many of the things he says (not all), but he will be so demonized and attacked in the media that people won’t vote for him. But he will raise issues that will send votes to the nearest party which will be the the Coalition.

    Interesting article. A guy sees Muslims set fire to 18 people, risks his life to smuggle contraband bibles into an Muslim country, and is criticized for criticizing Islam.

    The other interesting thing in this article was the account of a healing that gave the name of the doctor.

  14. I don’t agree with many of the things Danny Nalliah says, or the way he goes about them, in particular some of the prophecies, but I think Bone’s and Greg’s demonisation of him is way over the top.

    As Q points out, he came from extreme circumstances, and probably still has a death sentence over him.

    Critique his doctrine, prophecies, methodology and even his desire to enter politics if you want, but the abuse and vilely worded antipathy isn’t even worthy of this often angry site, which is quickly sinking to punching way below the belt in boxing terms.

    These are people, some of them God’s children, you are poisonously referring to. Whether we agree with them or not the least we can do is respect the Father by being less pungent behind their backs.

  15. Greg, if you think it’s OK to repeatedly tell people to f off in such an offensive manner I can tell you now it isn’t. It’s vile and provocative, which is, maybe, what you want, but it is highly perverted and totally unnecessary. The same goes for Bones, who seems to be adopting the same stance. Maybe it would be better if you toned down or followed your own advice.

  16. Moderation? You guys can give it out but just cant take it.

    Cowardly infantile adolescents who think swearing equates with masculinity.

    Get off your meds, lose your obesity and workout in a gym with me and I’ll show you tough.

    I’ll even let your swear.

  17. Danny Nahlia is a liar…he never risked his life smuggling bibles into a muslim country – he can’t even get hsi story straight on what happened

  18. Guys, go to sleep early, wake up early, go for a prayer walk, decide you won’t use offensive language, and make it your goal to get down to at least 15% bodyfat.

    Your life will change.

    There. That’s the best advice you’ll hear. Take it, and both you and your loved ones will be the happier for it.

    You guys are in no mental condition to be judging, criticizing and publicly attacking Christians.

    What I’ve just said is truth.

    And Greg, I’d get in that Tony Robbins course as fast as possible.

    Take Bones with you.

    Tony Robbins is the best stuff around next to the Bible.

  19. It’s not a big deal to have smuggled Bibles into a country.

    I know lots of people who have done it.

    But that’s a big accusation Greg. You better be able to prove it.

  20. That was just such an obvious cheap shot, Greg. To think you had us all on our knees a few weeks ago praying you would recover from depression!

    I guess you must be OK now, eh!

    I’ll let you have the floor then, and leave you to make a complete hash of any witness you claim, because if you won’t listen to the advice of friends, you won’t hear anyone else.

  21. Some more cheery news..

    All seven hostages were seized from an office of Lebanese-based construction firm Setraco in northeastern Nigeria on February 18. In claiming responsibility for the attack, Ansaru said it taken them captive because of “transgression and atrocities” against Islam in Afghanistan, Mali and other locations.
    Setraco’s Nigerian subsidiary is involved in many major road construction projects in northern Nigeria.
    U.S. officials say Ansaru is an offshoot of the Islamist militant group Boko Haram, which Nigerian authorities say is behind a recent rash of killings and kidnappings in the country. Boko Haram — whose name means “Western education is sacrilege” — has killed more than 2,800 people in an escalating campaign to impose strict Islamic law on largely Muslim northern Nigeria, according to Human Rights Watch.”

    More lovely behavior from Bone’s brothers in the religion of peace…

    Face it guys. Get a map, read your newspaper, and ask whether you really think Australia would be better with more Muslims.

    Here’s a research project for you Bones.

    Tell me how many countries in the world have seen Muslim violence in the last year.

    I won’t hold my breath. How many days do you want?

  22. Tony Robbins is the best stuff around next to the Bible.

    Totally agree – not sure what that’s got to do with me using a swear word? You and Steve really need to get over yourselves – it’s a word Q, a word – it has no magic power of offend or cause harm, unless you decide it does – that’s your issue, not mine. That you feel it is a sign of my mential disfunction says more about you than it does me. And steve – thank you for praying for me I appreciate it – but again, what has that got to do with me using a word, just like anyother word?

  23. I have depression too. Depression is no excuse for bad language and bad behavior.

    Depression is manageable.

  24. So what Q – what’s that got to do with anything? – I swear when I’m not depressed – I’m not depressed at the moment – I swear when I am – I like to swear – its fun – it gives people like you and steve a heart attack – I like that

  25. No Greg, don’t lie to me. You meant it to be offensive that’s why you used it. And you know it is offensive and provocative. If you used it in certain situations the way you have here it would be seen as a threat and a challenge.

    I didn’t come down with the last shower.

    It is vile and perverted speech.

    It is also a symptom in your case, and main one which came up last time there was an issue, so if you want to prove me wrong, leave it out.

    End of.

  26. If it’s any other word, why is it not allowed in schools, or on TV at certain times, and why would it not be alowed in parliament.

    It’s offensive to most adults in society.

    You thinking saying to people and talking about wanking over something is normal and acceptable for an adult, or especially a Christian or someone in ministry that says VOLUMES about you Greg.

    The fact you can’t understand that totally baffles me.

    Unless you just had a terrible upbringing. My parents don’t use that language and they’re not churchgoers. We weren’t allowed to. My kids don’t. My teachers didn’t. And some of the toughest men I know, wouldn’t use language like that in front of women.

    Maybe you should bring it up at the next P&C meeting. Or ring channel nine.

    But yeah, Ive just realized. If you don’t understand that, there’s really no point discussing anything.

    I’ve let it go for months, but it really is pathetic.

    Okay, I’ll say it as kind as I can.

    You’re an intelligent guy, and you no doubt have a lot of good things to say. You ruin it with your bad language.

    Some people who need to hear what you say won’t listen to you.

    This blog raises so many issues which could be debated with benefit to so many people – calvinism, Catholicism, pentecostalism, tithing, worship styles, attitudes to the poor.

    Women won’t stick around here, I certainly wouldn’t recommend it to a teenage girl, and a young Christian would probably just get crushed here.

    What’s left? A bunch of old guys. THis is like Expendables 7 for Christians!!

    WHich reminds me – I still haven’t seen 2 yet.

    Gotta go.

  27. Swearing is fun?

    I just don’t get that. To me that’s not a good sign.

    But okay, I’ve said my piece.

  28. Yeah, I’m gone too, so you can curse yourself from now on, Greg, since you’ve moderated everyone else out.

    That leaves you and Bones to cuss each other out, which won’t mean much to either of you since you both think it’s an acceptable dismissive, which makes one wonder why Bones bothers with a couple of asterisks in between he ‘f’ and ‘k’.

    That should tell you all you need to know.

    Enjoy your solitude!

  29. Nalliah likes to stretch the truth – claimed 200 prayer warriors converged on Canberra – he was also counting the protestors who were laughing at him! There were about 60 Nalliah lovers who attended his urgent call to prayer

  30. See ya Steve – don’t let the door smack you on the arse on the way out.

    Puritan smart arse wanker

  31. Hey, guys!!, I’ve got news for you,Asians are often racist toward groups of ethnicity within in their own countries ,and between their countries’ understanding of superiority in some way or another.I was married to a Chinese lady,I found that those people of similar origins were as much hellbent on pandering to their new masters, having been allowed into this country.So too, were other Greek, Italian and others that hag found their way here and got into these plumb jobs,which, I could never obtain, despite having been born here, nor did ny father’s foolishly putting his age up to fight in the second world war,pay any worthwhile dividends for our family, subsequently.My parents were precluded from guarantor duties for me when I wished to buy a modest used Vauxhall sedan about 1968 because they were part war pensioners.Now that’s what I call GRATITUDE for fighting for your country. In a nutshell, RACISM has many levels, some visible, some underlying, it has it’s roots in discrimination of varying degrees, given the opportunity to flourish, those small things, soon blossom into justification to discriminate on a much more serious level.Enter Hitler, Apartheid, McCarthy and KU Klux Klan!! Secondly,Although I am the greatest skeptic,I went to a goldust meeting in Carlton in the mid 1990’s, and lo and behold ,I saw the appearance of what looked like shiny dust, and I didn’t shake hands with anybody either which could have transferred glitter to my hands.It was quite hot in the hall, but I could clearly see the difference between the glistening of perspiration and what appeared to my skeptical mind and eyes, yes, you said it, GOLD DUST!!Nahaillia, I have always regarded as an extremist, too Fundamental, for me, however, he is right, nobody knows until the time comes whom you can trust and whom you cannot.In Yugoslavia, couples fell out, happy until it was Croation v Serb, Serb v Muslim, Croation v Serbian, some married couples even turning on each other.Go back to First WW internments, camps provided for Germans, WW11 same, as well as Japanese who had been born in USA.Com on people that is the reality, it’s easy to spout all this multiculturalism and cooperative love and harmony, but who really believes it when the pressure is on.Defend This guy’s right to voice HIS honest, to him, opinion, and Wiilders’ too.Even the right to burn national flags in protest, even though I hate it when it’s done.In Vietnam war days ASIO had a dossier on most of the protesters and activists, did you know,and one Australian Prime Minister wanted to sik the army on to them,Democracy Huh?

  32. Ps.My marbles came out of the barrel or hat, but my marbles stayed firmly in my concientous objector’s head.I refused to sign up for 2 years National Service as I could see the futility of war and the possibility of lies and gross misinformation from USA/Australian political policies.My Uncle, dad’s brother hit me for refusing to go, he had been a Rat of Tobruk, later he went to the Korean war, tried to sign up for Vietnam, but said was too old.Wasn’t, so we are told he going to fight to give me the freedom to refuse?Oh dear people if you would only unblinker yourselves as far as this great country of ours is concerned, as I have done, see it’s many components and machinations for it’s real self, not, the glorious b/s that it is painted to be.Still love it as I do, but at the same time let’s face reality.It’s not the best, not the greatest, nor ever will be, because people do not want to face it’s errant ways and policies.As such, weaknesses never faced and acknowledged are never dealt with and remedied!!

  33. Go away for a day and I miss the dummy spit.

    Simple fact is Australia believes in freedom of religion and separation of church (mosque) and state.

    Danny doesn’t like either. He only wants his religion to be free (I’d be surprised if he didn’t think the same about Catholics). He also wants his Christian version of sharia law to be policy in Australia.

    His objections to the mosque being built near his church just help breed the animosity between Muslims and Christians and isolates them further.

    I’d actually help them build the mosque. And I think Christians should support Muslim families and offer support to Muslims in the third world. By doing so “you heap burning coals upon their head” as Paul says in Romans 12:20.

    That’s what I think Christ would do.

  34. By the way Dallas have you read about the Japanese in US internment camps.

    The 442nd Regiment was made up of interned Japanese Americans and was the most decorated regiment in the history of the US Army. Even though they were vilified and not trusted.

    “The 442nd Regimental Combat Team was the most decorated unit for its size and length of service in the history of American warfare. The 4,000 men who initially came in April 1943 had to be replaced nearly 2.5 times. In total, about 14,000 men served, ultimately earning 9,486 Purple Hearts. The unit was awarded an unprecedented eight Presidential Unit Citations.[53] Twenty-one of its members were awarded Medals of Honor.[54] Members of the 442nd received 18,143 awards, including:
    21 Medals of Honor
    52 Distinguished Service Crosses (including 19 Distinguished Service Crosses which were upgraded to Medals of Honor in June 2000)
    1 Distinguished Service Medal
    560 Silver Stars (plus 28 Oak Leaf Clusters for a second award)
    22 Legion of Merit Medals
    15 Soldier’s Medals
    4,000 Bronze Stars (plus 1,200 Oak Leaf Clusters for a second award; one Bronze Star was upgraded to a Medal of Honor in June 2000. One Bronze Star was upgraded to a Silver Star in September 2009.)
    9,486 Purple Hearts
    On October 5, 2010, the Congressional Gold Medal was awarded to the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, the 100th Infantry Battalion, and Nisei serving in the Military Intelligence Service”

  35. Bones, have you heard about how POW’s and Korean slave laborers were treated in Japan. And Christians who didn’t bow to the imperial rescript.

    There were Germans in internment camps in Australia too.

    But that Japanese regiment is a great story. Worth remembering that they fought in Europe.

  36. My Grandad’s brother uncle was a POW in Changi, he never came back.

    Do you still mistrust Japs? My Mum did till the day she died. Even though she had a Jap TV, DVD player, CD player….

  37. The forces of good and reason strike back

    “A new progressive Christian voice (19 August 12)
    by Greg Spearritt
    The influence of conservative Christianity in Australian politics (especially through the Australian Christian Lobby) has been considerable in recent years. Some in society and in the media assume the ACL represents Christians generally, but in truth they speak for a small slice of Australian Christians.

    A lobby group aiming to represent progressive Christian voices has just been formed, titled A Progressive Christian Voice (Australia). President Peter Catt (in the press release, below) outlines their aim:

    ‘We want to be an additional Christian voice in public discourse. We want to represent the voice of the Christians who are trying to view life from the future… In every age we are challenged to see which aspects of our living, which we assume to be foundational to society, are in fact unjust and rob people of the liberty to flourish.

    The new body is seeking members: Ray Barraclough, Secretary of APCV can be contacted at

    Launch of A Progressive Christian Voice in Australia

    A new cross-denomination Christian group has been formed to add to public discourse in Australia.

    President of A Progressive Christian Voice (Australia), The Very Rev’d Dr Peter Catt, of Brisbane, said ‘We want to be an additional Christian voice in public discourse.

    ‘We want to represent the voice of the Christians who are trying to view life from the future.’

    ‘We want the Australian public to understand that conservative lobby groups might be one expression of the Christian faith, but they are by no means the only expression’, Dr Catt said.

    ‘The application of faith to life requires us to endeavour to look back from the future. To have an eye for how future generations will view our current actions.

    ‘It seems to me that the conservatism that is born of our tendency to be backward-glancing leaves the church playing catch up. For example, we find ourselves having to apologise to the women whose children were taken for forced adoption.’

    ‘We also owe apologies to the woman who grew too old while waiting for the day when women could be ordained. We owe apologies to the divorced people who wanted to remarry in the days when the church held that marrying the wrong person was a mistake one had to live with.’

    ‘And we owe apologies for counselling women to stay in abusive relationships to protect the ‘integrity and sanctity of marriage’.

    ‘The challenge before us, in my view, is for us to become more future-focused. We need to challenge ourselves to look for the next obstacle to overcome. In every age we are challenged to see which aspects of our living, which we assume to be foundational to society, are in fact unjust and rob people of the liberty to flourish. ‘

    APCV hopes to be a positive contributor to the life of the churches and to the wider community.

    The Very Rev’d Dr Peter Catt is President of the A Progressive Christian Voice (Australia) Inc”

  38. “I’d actually help them build the mosque”

    No doubt. But you’re a fricken idiot.

    “That’s what I think Christ would do.”

    You think wrong. No, Christ wouldn’t be building mosques. You’re actually a bigger fricken idiot than I thought.

  39. You haven’t got the guts to be a Geert Wilders or Theo Van Gogh.

    Ps. I honestly didn’t realize this was a gay website.

  40. Bones,

    this Mosque building conference is looking for volunteers..:Right up your Mosque building alley Bones.

    Razvi has been rattled by recent revelations about a previous planning meeting in which he declared the real intent of the conference to a Muslim audience: “We don’t accept every religion. We are there to convey the message that Islam is the only right religion.”

    ……….a Broken Hill picnic day to you guys. allah hu akbar. take it in.

  41. Well, looks like my plan

    Okay. Fair enough. Message to Steve, Roundhouse etc.

    When Bones and Greg call you idiots, morons, tell you to etc, just don’t worry about it.

    That don’t mean it in such a bad way.

  42. I will hereby not worry about language.

    I still think it’s bad form though.. Check out the latest youtube of the guy rebuking the drunk girls in maccas. He’s a hero.

    Except that he used the s word….

  43. “Ps. I honestly didn’t realize this was a gay website.”

    You didn’t? I spotted Bones and Greg a mile away.

  44. By the way, was Ian banned or did he wipe the dust off his feet?

    And will Margot ever come back?

    We can’t leave this website to the infidels!

  45. ““We don’t accept every religion. We are there to convey the message that Islam is the only right religion.””

    That quote could be from any multiple of Catholic, Evangelical, Fundamentalist or Pentecostal preachers.

    Except substitute Islam for their own.

  46. btw I can’t swear in my posts. When I do they are raptured to moderator land to be cleansed and purified.

    Hence I use f**k or ficken.

  47. See, there is God after all.

    Or maybe, Greg has decided he’s the only one mature enough to swear?

    But that’s fair enough. It fits his persona. And Bones you’re a teacher.
    Teachers shouldn’t swear, smoke or do topless dancing.

  48. Most secularists think they have the luxury of sitting on a fence.

    Solzhenitsyn, “”First they came for the communists, and I did not speak up, because I wasn’t a …

    Karl Popper’s; “intolerance paradox” – you have to pick a side or Islam will pick one for you, and it will too late.

    but this is all so much rain on a duck’s back. The paradox of a Christian defending a homosexual’s right to sin will be lost here. Or the paradox of unenforced criminal codes.

    Islam won’t give you the same options. cheers.

  49. So PhillipWank (orIlove2bwithAlanJonesinthetoilet) what do you propose to do to the Muslims already living in Australia that you are scared of.

  50. { And Bones you’re a teacher.
    Teachers shouldn’t swear, smoke or do topless dancing. }

    You are my new Swami.
    I’m all ears.

  51. What do “I plan” to do with the Islamic fundamentalists/ Koran literalists who are already here…

    1.What are ASIO,/DSD/ the NSA etc already doing with them?

    Monitor them (paid for with your growingly generous taxes); a generous amount of undercover infiltration (including web sites like your own) etc.

    2. That precedes the coming “peace process” – a peace process is something every mature grown up multi cultic nation needs. Just look at Yugoslavia and Lebanon and Malaysia and the Philippines and Syria and Egypt and Aceh; all good working models of peace processes already started.

    3. Finally Land for peace deals. [Why shouldn’t Muslims already born here all with full citizenship entitlements be entitled to their own Caliphate and Law Courts – funded largely from generous grants from Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or the Nation of Islam etc]

    4. In the mean time local councils can segregate beaches and have segregated swimming sessions.

    And Age readers can start paying the Dhimma – oooops, they already have started that, funding Mosque building in the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan that is. [Dhimma for the dim witted]

    Its all “fait accompli” — you started it — I’m a clean skin on this one.

    Meanwhile “boys” shoot the messenger. Its been a good laugh. But nothing even nearly surprising. Nothing to raise an eye brow.
    Seen it all before.

  52. “a generous amount of undercover infiltration (including web sites like your own”

    Okay, who is it. Step forward.

  53. By the way, was Ian banned or did he wipe the dust off his feet?

    He brushed the dust off his feet – jujst as I predicted he would…of course I did help him on his way by deelting every comment he made that was stup[iud adn irredeemably nonsensical…be warned PhillyCheese$2.13perblock

  54. “deleting every comment he made that (I thought) was stupid”

    So, you deleted every comment right? 🙂 Well, that’ll make a person leave.

    “irredeemably nonsensical”

    See Greg, you don’t need cussing when you can come out with stuff like that.

    Think I’ll use that one with my wife.

    “That idea is irredeemably nonsensical”

    Good one.

  55. The diversity of opinion is what interests me the most about this site, however the recent departures reduces that diversity quite considerably.

  56. Exactly.

    There used to be a couple of calvinists too. And the Ian character who left was in a class of his own.

  57. Now it’s just the godless liberal reprobates, , the enquiring Jack, and that Q guy who is always totally reasonable, totally free of bias, and always right.

  58. The voice of reason in the dark world of insanity and unredeemable nonsense that is Signposts02.

  59. The problem with both Islam, Christianity and some other Religions and Sects, Denominations and so on, is that they so often feel they have a mortgage on the truth, their truth and understanding of God, Prophets and Hallowed estimations of their respective Dieties and messengers they claim carried or provided the message, which curiously, seem to lack much of the power ascribed to them, in so far as mere earthly men find the need to fight, argue and war with each other, as though, they doubt the abilities, claimed to be present in these Deities or Prophets, to be able to look after themselves, so they must stand up for their Gods.Perhaps, herein lies the chink in their armour of faith?Let us worship as we each see fit,all prayer, no matter from whose lips are heard and received by the True God and Jesus, they are able to meet those petitioners wherever, or from whichever standpoint they are coming from.Basically if we butt out of these highly contencios issues leave things in God’s Wisdom and hands of understanding, most of the Religios conflicts will cease.There are extremists, Fundamentalists and bigots within all of these faiths, Sects and Denominations.Some, it seems may well be alive and warring on this forum????

  60. Now it’s just the godless liberal reprobates, , the enquiring Jack, and that Q guy who is always totally reasonable, totally free of bias, and always right.

    I resemble that comment

    However you got my name wrong. I’m not Q I’m Greg the Explorer.

  61. All jokes aside. Why do you do it Greg?

    All you have to do is stop saying a couple of words.
    Sometimes you’re so charming (seriously),but then you chase people away.
    That last comment is funny in it’s own way, but at least three of those people won’t see the humor.

    Bull and RP and most christians of all different persuasions will not want to be around that kind of language.

    Is it worth it?


  62. All pretension aside, I wonder if the publicans and sinners stopped swearing when Jesus was around? Tell me why I should not use those words rather than then accept those few words?

  63. “I wonder if the publicans and sinners stopped swearing when Jesus was around”

    I don’t know.

    “Tell me why I should not use those words….except those few words”

    Because it offends some people. So why offend them unnecessarily? Steve is your brother, and Margot is your sister. Why offend them when all it takes is not using a few words?
    And if they weren’t Christians, the same applies.

    Also, because you have valuable things to say. You lose your audience for the sake of a few words.

    You can do what you want – it’s your right. I just think the costs outweigh the benefits. Does it mean that much to you to be able to use words that lots of people are offended by?

    That’s all. You’re probably right if you want to argue about the origins and usage of words. I just think you’d get on better with people.

    That’s all.

  64. The Good Gay Muslim

    “Nobody was more despised in Jesus’ day than the Samaritans. I think that if He were re-telling that Story of the Good Samaritan to the religious world today, He might tell it as “The Story of the Good, Gay Muslim*.”

    “The story was told to have that kind of impact of the self-righteous, do-gooders of His day. If my suggested title makes you cringe, you’re feeling what the listeners felt when Jesus told the original story.” Steve McVey

    Luke 10: 35 The next day, the Samaritan* took out two silver coins and gave them to the man who worked at the inn. He said, ‘Take care of this hurt man. If you spend more money on him, I will pay it back to you when I come again.’” 36 Then Jesus said, “Which one of these three men do you think was really a neighbor to the man who was hurt by the robbers?” 37 The teacher of the law answered, “The one who helped him.” Jesus said, “Then you go and do the same.”

    With Jesus the EXcluded is INcluded…

    That’s with Jesus, but not with Danny. Danny wants to keep everyone out.

  65. @Bones. I obviously can’t say for sure, but I think Danny would help someone if they were beat up – whether they were gay or muslim or gay muslim.

  66. Jon Bevere did a series on not being offended, Bait of Satan it was. Load of twaddle really.

    I find people who abuse the gospel of Christ and abuse their own congregations as offensive. I find that people who defend them are offensive. I’m offended that these people refuse to seriously study the scriptures but stick to their own selfish motives for keeping their retarded theology.

    I’m offended by teleavengelists who beg for donations while living in multi million dollar houses.

    I’m offended that any one thinks Brian Houston actually preaches.

    Danny Nalliah’s theology is offensive.

    I’m offended by the behaviour of Kong Hee.

    I’m offended by Westboro Baptist and the haters of humanity.

    I find fundamentalism offensive to truth and reason.

    I’m offended by child molestors.

    I’m offended by those who make Jesus Christ a laughing stock eg Danny Nalliah.

    I’m offended by those who wish to hang on to biblical literalism than accept the truth and evidence of God’s own creation.

    I find the concept of a god who eternally burns people who never even knew about that god is offensive.

    I find it offensive that god wants to destroy god’s own creation.

    I find all these far more offensive than f**k.

    Oh and I find cooking shows offensive and would prefer to watch Pawn Stars.

  67. @Bones. Read over that last argument of yours. Or better still give it to a high school kid to appraise.

    I gave reasons why for the sake of getting on with people, language that is not allowed in schools, a many public settings should be avoided on a Christian website.

    You give a list of things that offend you, from child molesters to cooking shows which personally offend you more than bad language.

    It’s irrelevant. I am more concerned with serial murderers than someone who would call you and Greg fat gits, but I still think they shouldn’t call you that.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

  68. @Greg. Steve was genuinely concerned when you were suicidal a few months ago. You are extremely lacking in gratitude.

  69. But I’ll stay. Can’t let you guys just offend everyone so you have free reign to post any drivel you want.

  70. Just looked at that article Phillip.

    They probably are worried about violence from Bones. Maybe he volunteered to beat up Christians for the Muslims during rest breaks from mosque construction.

    Seriously, it’s a problem isn’t it.

    I wonder if they could ensure the safety for a booth for gay muslims?

    You know, like that Samaritan guy.

    Yeah, that’s it. Bones can rent a stand with some gay Muslims there. And if anyone menaces them, greg can tell them to F off.

    No wait, those two leave their bravado when they log off the internet.

    But, I’d love to see it. Bones and Greg setting up a booth at that event agitating for gay muslim marriage!

    Go for it tough guys!!!!’

  71. Q (quartermaster?) – it’s like SBS and their ABC have preached the multi cultic sermon for so long people are under an hypnotic trance.
    There’s no such thing as “black racists”! All muslims are good. All racism is right wing extremism or Christian fundamentalism.
    The western world is irreducible secularism. Christian votes don’t count etc. We have no history except bigotry. Aborigines lived in a pacified state in a garden of Eden.

    You might have missed Martin Amis’ quote. “stupefied by relativism”.

    People literally made stupid. It has to be one of the greatest commentaries of the last century.

    It’s all vain, puerile, banal.

  72. It’s very simple Phillip. Universities were taken over by liberals decades ago.

    Heck, when I went through (before the Berlin Wall fell) lecturers and tutors were still admiring communism…! Esp the communism in China.

    But the future will be interesting.

    The great paradox is that the media (and the zombies here) while attacking Christianity, keep wanting to go in to bat for both gay marriage and Islam. But they seem to forget that these two are incompatible.

    So it’s open slather on Christians and churches and Jesus, but anyone mentioning gay marriage or Islam in any negative way is vilified.

    So the day is coming when the ultimate clash will come between the Muslims and the gay community and liberal value holders.

    I’m amazed they can’t see it coming.

    Probably Bones will offer to build a mosque for them, apologize and slink off to an island somewhere, lest he offends them.

    Except that he’ll then have to think about what to do about Muslims wanting to live on his island.

    He could always chop his own head off and say “That’s what Jesus would do, .after he’s finishing building lots of mosques)

    It’s like some mad comedy isn’t it?

    Glad I never had Bones or Greg for a Sunday School Teacher.

    “So kids what would Jesus be doing if he were on the earth now?”

    “heal the sick?”
    “No, He couldn’t really do that the last time – it’s just a story”

    “Preach the good news?”
    “No, Johnny. Anyway, what do you mean by good news?”

    “No kids, he’d be building a mosque in Melbourne somewhere, and telling people to F off”

  73. hear, hear

    Meanwhile Pope Francis I ??? – three big question marks

    ? Petrus Romanus

    Petrus = Rock [affirmative]
    Francis = Patron Saint of Italy [affirmative]

    First generation son of Italian migrants. Has St Malachy struck again? Close enough to a positive I.D. Given it was written nearly 900 years ago maybe we could cut him some slack.

    rock of rome?

    even so come soon Lord Jesus. so endeth that lesson?

  74. Also Phillip,

    as you touched on, there is very little independant or critical thinking.

    Most people never think for themselves or question things.
    And since people are very easily influenced by movies, sitcoms, dramas and the opinions of famous people, they slowly get influenced.

    Take people like Bones and Greg. At one time they say there were charismatics. They probably didn’t think much back then, just listened to the Pastors.

    Then later they do a theology course at uni, and the same thing happens. So now they just take it in.

    Which is why if you follow the debates, Bones never argues point by point against Steve. He just insults, does a copy and paste job and then insults again without answering questions or addressing the points.

    No critical thinking or reasoning.

    Greg is similar, except that instead of copying and pasting, he just deletes and say F-off.

    It’s very hard and almost impossible to try and reason with people like that.

    But you just can’t let them bully you away. That’s what the enemies of Christ have been trying to do for decades. They start from a nonsensical base and just attack and bully and taunt and smear.

    But, it works. Especially against Christians because Christians back off, and question themselves.

    It’s kind of like the way the bible describes the Devil or our adversary.


  75. ” it’s like SBS and their ABC have preached the multi cultic sermon for so long people are under an hypnotic trance.”

    Out from under the rock comes the Alan Jones sychophants, haters of their own country. And they criticise others for not having ‘their values’ which of course is a mild form of sharia and a less extreme Taliban. Worshippers of trolls like Wilders and Hitler. Morons who enjoy the freedoms of our country yet wish to deny those freedoms to others in the guise of fear.

    Thankfully I fear no man, Muslim or Christian. I worship and follow no one, other than Jesus Christ Himself.

    Aaah yes Jesus will come. And he will sort you out with his winnowing fork.

  76. “as you touched on, there is very little independant or critical thinking.”

    Sorry you’re in the wrong thread.

    You should be in the prosperity doctrine/Pentecostal/Hillsong thread.

    Don’t think. Just accept everything your pastor tells you.

    Those that can’t accept critical analysis of their beliefs have spat their dummies, taken their balls and gone home.

  77. It’s irrelevant. I am more concerned with serial murderers than someone who would call you and Greg fat gits

    I am not a git!

  78. Actually Bones, I took time out because I was having to spend more time pointing out to you and Greg your immensely frustrating method of arguing, which avoided every question asked, every rebuttal made and was measured by detour after detour into obscurity, that my focus was more on asking you to stick to the point, or even have a point that was on-thread, that it was a complete waste of time discussing anything with you, and, once you and Greg started into the childish and insensitively abusive foul language and Greg started deleting commentaries at will, it seemed pointless bothering with such ignorance.

    So now you know.

    Have a good day.

  79. “Worshippers of trolls like Wilders and Hitler”

    See Bones. You are really quite mad. Although nasty, and evil probably fits better.

    You fear no man?? That is so funny.

    Go build another mosque!

    I fear no man! lol

    Okay, go set up your gay muslim marriage booth!

    You’re a real hoot.

    And it’s no wonder Steve left. Like he said, you always ignore his points and arguments – for reasons that have become obvious.

    Man, is there any hope for the future of Australia when teachers are just glorified copy and pasters???

    “I fear no man….”

    Thanks for my laugh of the day.

    “Jesus will come” “Winnowing fork”

    Do tell Bones.

  80. “Don’t think. Just accept everything your pastor tells you.”

    So who is like that on this website?

    Certainly not Steve. He’s about the only one who bothers to give very detailed explanations with scripture about what he believes.

    More like…

    Don’t think. Just accept everything that the media, or some guy on the internet tell you (especially if he allows you to copy and paste his material).

  81. “constant rants on the rapture”

    That comment is precisely why Steve left. He no doubt thinks it’s a waste of time posting.

    Basically Bones, he destroyed you. You just ran from his questions.

    Okay, I’ll leave you for a while. You probably have some urgent articles to copy and paste.

  82. “Basically Bones, he destroyed you.”

    It was a waste of three threads as Greg’s last post revealed. The usual strawman arguments and a massive attempt to take the threads off topic because he couldn’t defend it any other way.

  83. Rowland Jide Macaulay Pastor of House Of Rainbow Fellowship meets Imam Muhsin Hendrick the founder of Inner Circle, a leading gay Islamic Religious leader, they both have many things in common, they are both religious leaders of the two most popular religions, and they are openly gay and also Africans. The meeting took place at the Inner Circle Annual International Retreat 2009 which took place in Cape Town South Africa 24th to 27th April 2009.

  84. Bones if you think that, then you weren’t reading Steve’s posts.
    So maybe you weren’t just cowardly, you didn’t even bother to read his posts. Maybe you’re not used to reading scripture? There’s a difference between reading the Bible, and just pasting a long article about the Bible.

    And that youtube? You’ve already posted that before!!!!

    Okay, go and set up your booth and advocate for gay marriage and show this youtube.

    Remember, the Muslims can’t guarantee your safety. So it will be a real test for “I fear no man” Bones.

  85. Just remember Bones, you’ve said in the past that gay sex was wrong when you were pinned down, but wont oppose gay marriage because you don’t think Christians should impose their morality as law.

    So, what’s with posting these two ….men…??
    You changing your mind and now think Christians having gay sex is a beautiful thing?

  86. Possibly Q. The more I hear of the hysterical cry against same sex marriage the more that reaction turns me away. It is a very ugly and unChristlike part of Christianity.

    A gay Christian will be in the kingdom before your mate PimpGeorge.

  87. “Bones if you think that, then you weren’t reading Steve’s posts.”

    I knew exactly what he was doing. Skirting the real issue.Now if in your mind he ‘won’ then good for you. I couldn’t give a sh!t. It was just a tactic to deflect criticism of a fundamentalist and Pentecostal dogma.

  88. I can just see Jesus now binding the cords together into a ship… Driving out both sheep and cattle, gay christians and muslims…

    Don’t deride my God like that bones, don’t mock what Christ did for you at the cross, don’t trample His blood underfoot!

  89. Bones,
    you’re incoherent.
    Riven? Apparently Nero went mad trying to intimidate Christians.

    If you think Muhammad was a Prophet with accurate prophecies from God via Gabriel – just swear yourself in. Join them.

    Meanwhile commandment no.1 was/ is “you shall have no other Gods beside me”.

    The multi cultic genuflection takes no account of either Western history or jurisprudence or direct biblical precedent.

    You think these two “men”, church/ mosque leaders are accurately representing the text of either Bible or Koran. It’s easy. Join them. Toss in a few sacred groves and the odd altar to Baal. All very inclusive, tolerant, diversity approved and multi cultic. Guaranteed stuffing to apply for a Federal Arts Grant. Enjoy the junket money. Get a gig being interviewed by Waleed Aly – just don’t call it Christianity or “our heritage” – it isn’t.

    Pol Pot was a secularist / a poster boy of atheist intent.

    Jesus said, quite explicitly there would be a great falling away; and would He find faith on the earth?

  90. See bones. That’s it. First there is no hysterical cry.

    There’s just the simple statement of fact that gay marriage is wrong, and not God’s will.

    You have gone from having a desire to not be judgemental, to being afraid of being labelled as on the side of fundamentalits, and the more you argue and argue, you push yourself further and further until you don’t know what you believe anymore.

    It’s sad.

    And you haven’t realized that you’ve just been swept along with the tide.

    First it was holding your beliefs and not judging. Then it was allowing civil unions. The it was defending the right to gay marriage, while holding to the view that it was sin, then the more you argue, you finally can’t say to the gay people that what they is doing is sin.

    So finally, where are you? Not knowing what you stand for.

    So, the great irony my friend is that while you’ve been railing against the slippery slope argument and raging at how absurd it is, you’ve been sliding, until eventually you are in a position that you never thought possible.

    To put it simply, you have been deceived.

    Eventually you will probably be like Greg who thinks God doesn’t care what you do with your genitals.

    Man that’s one heck of a theology. Right up there with Jesus helping out with mosque construction.

  91. The only thing hysterical, is the vitriol against anyone who even meekly says “I don’t support gay marriage” Then watch the hysterics begin.

  92. Don’t know who or what pimpgeorge is.

    Bones, if you knew your bible like you know popular culture, you might understand a bit more.

  93. “You might have missed Martin Amis’ quote. “stupefied by relativism”.

    People literally made stupid. It has to be one of the greatest commentaries of the last century.

    It’s all vain, puerile, banal.”

    Aah the old relative argument.

    So tell me should divorce be criminalised?

    Should wives stay with abusive husbands contravening Jesus’s own words on divorce?

    Should homosexuals be criminalised?

    Should schools teach the Bible as a science text?

    Should we stop all science which disagrees with the literalistic Biblical view?

    Are Catholics and liberal Christians going to hell?

    Should shops not open on Sundays because it upsets your fundamentalist belief?

    Do you tell your kids they’ll go to hell if they play with their willy?

    But yeah I see your argument for Absolute Truth.

    But I’m not sure which Absolute Truth you belong to: Catholic or Protestant. But then many Reformed versions of Absolute Truth differs to a Pentecostals view of Absolute Truth. I also know that your Absolute Truth differs to a Muslim’s Absolute Truth.

    Now it could be that after centuries of sectarian violence over who owns Absolute Truth that our society has become a bit sick of it. In fact let’s face it. It’s science and secular society which has civilised those who believe they have Absolute Truth. That’s the only reason our fanatics aren’t still killing each other.

  94. “Meanwhile commandment no.1 was/ is “you shall have no other Gods beside me”.”

    Hey dickhead.

    What do Arabic Christians call God?


  95. …..said Bones, who thinks that gay sex is “perhaps” a beautiful thing.

    Another one bites the dust.
    You can probably now have interesting talks with the Muslims about the joys of gay sex when you help build that mosque.

  96. “Pol Pot was a secularist / a poster boy of atheist intent.”

    Pol Pot was scared of education. If anything he was a believer in the Absolute Truth of Marxism.

    Now you need to look up your poster boys, Oliver Cromwell and John Calvin. Look it up and see what a fantastic merciful society totally based on the Bible was like. Cromwell’s Protectorate and Calvin’s Geneva – Hell on Earth.

  97. Another man who started out attacking the pentecostal church and in the end what do we have?
    Another broken depressed Christian on medication who thinks it’s normal to say the Fword, call people dheads, thinks gay marriage is okay, and thinks that gay sex is perhaps beautiful.

    It’s truly sad. Rage away Bones, but remember that God is not mocked.

  98. Bones, I see you directed a question to “dickhead”. I don’t necessarily have license to answer on behalf of said person – fictitious or otherwise.

    But, as recently as two weeks ago I sat speaking with some Coptic Arabic speaking Egyptian Christians.

    They were at pains to make the contradistinction that you are not making.

    8 million Coptic people are in a genuinely threatened place of being. This rather beautiful young woman wanted me to know that many “muslims” believe that they will be rewarded in heaven for their persecution of Christians. Verbatim quote

    Seems you haven’t done the etymological investigation w.r.t. allah – a satanic facsimile.

    I’d be happy to set fire to the other straw man arguments you have erected but have to put the children to bed – the literal ones – not those of your metaphorical juxta-positional being.

    As said, it has been a good laugh.

    What’s with the incessant reference to penis? Is it actually no boner bones? There’s treatments available.

  99. Christians express outrage over threats to mosque

    Christians in west Oxfordshire have signed a letter expressing “shock and outrage” at discrimination against Muslims in Chipping Norton.

    The letter says: “As Christians we know that Jesus called us to love God and our neighbour as we love ourselves. It is for us to welcome the stranger and to be hospitable to all.

    “We affirm that all people have the right to be treated as human beings with the freedom to practice their faith without fear of persecution.”

  100. “Seems you haven’t done the etymological investigation w.r.t. allah – a satanic facsimile.”

    You are lying.

    Like Arab Muslims, Arab Christians refer to God as Allah, as an Arabic word for “God”.[69][70] The use of the term Allah in Arab Christian churches predates Islam by several centuries.[69] In more recent times (especially since the mid-19th century), some Arab speaking Christians from the Levant region have been converted from these native, traditional churches to more recent Protestant ones, most notably Baptist and Methodist churches[citation needed]. This is mostly due to an influx of Western, predominantly American Evangelical, missionaries.

  101. The Word ‘Allah’

    The Arabic word for the one God, in the use of any Arabic-speaking religion, is of course Allah. This word either comes from a contraction of ilah with the definite article, al-ilah, or is a borrowing from the Syriac Alaha (the latter opinion is sustained by early 20th century scholars like von Gruenbaum, Cheikho, Mingana, and Jeffery). It could just as easily be the mutual influence of the two, as the line between borrowings and cognates among Semitic languages is notoriously hard to determine.

  102. At no point in the literary history of Christian Arabic am I aware of any word other than ‘Allah’ used for God (that is, where Greek would use ο θεος). Nor am I aware of it having been controversial among Christian Arabs or non-Arab Christians who came in contact with the usage. After all, Byzantine refutations of Islam talk about what the blasphemies Muslims say about ο θεος, not what they say about αλλα…..

    “Thanks for this post. I agree that the Hebrew El, Eloah (plural Elohim); Aramaic Alaha, and Arabic Allah are all related linguistically. When the Muslim conquests came, Aramaic was the spoken language of the Middle East until Arabic supplanted it, and so Allah was an easy step for Aramaic speakers to take.”

    “This is great. I have quite a few Syrian Christian friends who use phrases such as “insh allah” (sp) and other “bism allah” (sp) without a second thought. “

  103. So here goes BOnes on another insane rage trying to find someplaces on earth where some Muslims have been on the receiving end. Leave it to Bones. In other news, a pussy cat killed a lion somewhere.

    “Calvin’s Geneva – Hell on Earth.”

    Here we go….

    Bones thinks he’s a historian because he’s read criticisms of Calvin.
    He won’t be able to tell you much about what Geneva was like before Geneva, or the work concerning schools, free education, hospitals, refugees and so on.

    Hell on earth??? Bones, take some pills man. You’ll ignore 9/11, Bali, decades of violence in multiple countries that continues today, and go all the way back to Geneva??

    Go study some more on Geneva Bones.

    (No I shouldn’t say that, Bones will just do another copy and paste that he’s done before of every bad thing he can find about Servetus etc.

    So guys, there’s no point in mentioning any accounts of imprisonment, rapes, burnings, lootings, massacres, outlawing of Bible, preaching Jesus etc. Because Bones will find something somewhere on the net where a Christian was bad to a Muslim, and thus deduce that Christians are as bad or worse.

    Bones, you need help.

  104. This series of way out there questions (rhetorical?) by Bones

    “So tell me should divorce be criminalised?
    Should wives stay with abusive husbands contravening Jesus’s own words on divorce?
    Should homosexuals be criminalised?
    Should schools teach the Bible as a science text?
    Should we stop all science which disagrees with the literalistic Biblical view?
    Are Catholics and liberal Christians going to hell?
    Should shops not open on Sundays because it upsets your fundamentalist belief?
    Do you tell your kids they’ll go to hell if they play with their willy?”

    Followed by the sarcastic ..

    “But yeah I see your argument for Absolute Truth.
    But I’m not sure which Absolute Truth ”

    Bones, go back and study absolute and relative truth.
    Your nonsense may impress some kids in Grade 8 in Bundaberg…but really.
    Is that all you got?

    You’re making a fool of yourself.

    Just stick to swearing.

  105. “Don’t stay up too late copying and pasting Bones.”

    I won’t. I’m doing school work while correcting the insanities posted on this thread.

    And I’ll copy and paste whatever and whenever I want.

    To back up a point.

    You obviously never did any higher education where you use supporting evidence to make or back up an argument.

    And if you don’t like what I copy and paste don’t f**king read it.

  106. “You’re making a fool of yourself.”

    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    So aside from attacking me. Do you actually have a contribution to this thread.

    You don’t like me.

    I don’t give a f**k.

  107. We are of course to look to Jesus as to how we treat others even if it means offending the Pharisees.

    Christians help Muslims build mosque

    Catholics and Protestants in Kupang, East Nusa Tenggara province, have donated money for the construction of a grand mosque in the city, which was delayed due to lack of funding.

    Donors include governor Fransiskus Lebu Raya, a Catholic layman and mayor Daniel Adu, a Protestant leader, who each donated 50 million rupiah (about US$5,700) and 250 sacks of cement.

    Lebu Raya said even though the provincial government has allocated a sum for the construction of the mosque, he needed to give from his own money as well.

    “Christians believe that a mosque is God’s house. Therefore, we need to help each other in building God’s house,” the governor said in his speech during the April 5 groundbreaking ceremony.

    Minister of Religious Affairs Suryadarma Ali also attended the ceremony.

  108. Back to the original topic regarding Danny Nalliah, here is his lastest blog regarding the mosque next door situation –

    The comments section of his blog is usually heavily moderated, but at least some people on there are questioning him on this and suggesting that perhaps this is an opportunity to witness to the Muslims who will be going near his own proposed new church. As for his political party, if they have any candidates in my electorate I will be making sure they are marked at the very end of my ballot.

  109. Thanks for bringing it back on thread Jack, seems Q has take over Steves role of divergting discussoin with personal attack in Steve’s absence. Good grief Q…have you gone mad man?

    Bones, Q has mentioned in the past that he is not an edjumakated bloke likes yoo an meezis – he dusnts noes bout harvardz reffruncing an stuff. He duzzns noes that arguments based on your own thinkingz aints argumentz, zayis stoopids!


  110. Bones, I’ve been to uni.
    You accusing people of personal attacks is ..well, do that pot, kettle thing again.

    Great. I won’t read your copy and paste jobs. I gave that up when I realized you didn’t!

    And then later when I found you pulled them from anti-semitic hate sites.

    And when you posted the same thing twice.

    It’s not part of any higher education I know of to call someone an idiot then then post an article longer than the sum total of your own words.

    No Greg, not mad. Not suicidal. Not on medication. Don’t enjoy swearing. Not proud of the fact that I offend women.
    Think that based on the BIble that God does care what we do with our genitals. Which is the same position that most people including the legal systems of most countries holds.

    So, have you gone made Greg?

    Rather, when did you go mad Greg and what were the contributing factors?

    Higher education? And learn what? To ask scintillating questions like whether people on this thread tell their kids they’ll go to hell for playing with their willy, and that they are HItler worshippers.

    No, I think Bones got his higher education from the cornflakes box on the top shelf.

    If not, he should sue the institution.

    Or maybe they should sue him.

  111. I don’t think in a democratic country that you can oppose the building of a house of worship of a religion other than your own.

    I am not a supporter of Nalliah’s political party.

    I responded in the way I did because of other points and comments made by others on this thread.

    I am aware that some Christians in some places of the world, may have helped Muslims build a mosque. I don’t believe that the actions of Christians everywhere in the world are necessarily a good idea.

    And no, I disagree with Bone’s thinking that Jesus would help build a mosque.

    And I can say that without going on a copy and paste spree about any bad act of a CHristian I can find.

  112. OKay, I think I’ve got my point across.

    I won’t respond in kind to belligerent nonsensical posts anymore.

    I thought I’d try the Bonesian/ Gregorian method for a while.

    I don’t like it and don’t feel good after it. I don’t know how you guys can keep it up.

    Back to my original “love is patient”commenting style from now on.


  113. [deleted in case it sparks a riot in Cronulla]

    nah, deleted because you are afraid of either the truth or Muslims.


    allah hu akbar to you all. you deserve it

  114. Mary: Where are you going today, Jesus?

    Jesus: I thought I’d go down to the temple to help the money lenders with their tables as they set up to flog expensive sacrifices to the punters.

    Mary: That’s nice of you, son. They work hard at their usury down at the temple.

    Jesus: Yes, mother. I thought I’d head out to the hills after that to help the idol worshippers trim the groves for the next season. I might even show them how to use their chisels to carve idols now that Joseph’s given me a new set of carpentry tools.

    Mary: How ecumenical of you, Jesus. Your disciples are being set a great example.

    Jesus: Thanks, mum. One day their disciples’ll form a one world religion and we’ll all be as one. The pre-Bahai’s are already talking about this idea, and saying we should pool all the gods into one association, so I might drop into their management meeting tonight to give them some help with their constitution.

    Mary: Well, don’t be home too late, son, you know you have work experience with the Temple to Mars the Romans are building tomorrow, and an early start.

    Jesus: I know, mum! See you later!

  115. Time for a change. I like changes.
    I’m tired of the handle Q, and tired of posting the way I have lately.
    If I post on here, I want to do it right. The only way I think I’ll be able to do that is to remember who I am, and what my purpose should be when I post. You can call me DC if you like.
    Sorry, if I went to far. Bones, Greg, I don’t hate you.
    You just annoy the hell out of me.

  116. You don’t know what you’ve got yourself into Jack/no boners Bones.

    [deleted because its a lie]

    You can’t decide who allah is until you decide who muhammad was.

    And there’s light years separation between defending a pagan’s right to be pagan and actively encouraging the propagation of paganism.

    It’s not a foot fault, Its a yawning chasm the difference.

    for all the allah knee bending Christians right here, right now.

    there you go moderators – there’s more crystal clear evidence of your commitment to censorship

  117. So anyone here think that they would vote for Rise Up Australia? If so, what are your reasons for that?

  118. Jack, I can’t see that party getting many votes. And many people who agree with a person or party may not vote for them if they think they are unelectable. That happens in the US especially. Many people like the independent third presidential candidate but think they they’d be better voting for the person with the better chance of winning.

    I agree with some of what Danny says. And I would vote for his party ahead of some other parties probably.

    There are issues he raises that need to be debated.
    But the problem I always have with a Christian party like that is that I don’t think there is one true biblical position when it comes to issues like immigration or education or transport.

  119. If greatness can be gauged by comparing oneself with other prophets, Jesus was the greatest. If one compares Jesus Christ to earthly kings, one must conclude he is “King of kings and Lord of lords”. (Revelation 17:14; 19:16) Muhammad’s attitude to this supreme title does not surprise us. The Ahadith quotes Muhammad as saying, “The most awful name in Allah’s sight on the Day of Resurrection, will be (that of) a man calling himself Malik Al-Amlak (the king of kings).” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 8, Hadith Number 224)

    jack nicholson

    Churchill gives a pearler on truth. But no, you wouldn’t get that either.

    cut, snip, cut, snip,

    the stone the builders rejected friend.

  120. Winston Churchill gives a pearler on truth

    In a letter addressed to US President Franklin Roosevelt, dated 4 March 1942, Winston Churchill wrote, ‘We must not on any account break with the Moslems, who represent a hundred million people, and the main army elements on which we must rely for the immediate fighting’.


    The Battle for France

    Four mule companies (approx 1400 men) from the Royal Indian Army Service Corps, known as Force K6, joined the British Expeditionary Force in France in December 1939. These men played a commendable role in the battle around Dunkirk, one Indian company was captured while the other three were evacuated back to Britain when the Germans unleashed a ferocious offensive in May 1940. The majority of the men serving in mule companies were of Muslim orientation and natives of north-west Punjab, Pakistan.
    One British officer states:
    ‘… during the chaos…’ they ‘…. maintained the discipline, turn-out and self respect which many around them lost, greatly enhancing the reputation of the Indian Army.’

    The North & East African Campaign 1940 – 1943

    In Aug 1939, a month before the outbreak of war, the 5th and 11th Indian brigades were dispatched to Egypt to safeguard the strategically important Suez Canal from an Italian attack. The 7th Indian infantry brigade arrived in 1940. The three brigades would form the nucleus of the 4th Indian Division. On 8 June Mussolini declared war on Britain and the Italians advanced cautiously on British and Indian positions in Egypt. Between Aug 1939 and May 1943, five Indian divisions (approx 100,000 men) were involved in the fighting. The Italians sustained heavy casualties and Hitler, mindful of the rich oilfields, sent an expeditionary force to aid the beleaguered Italians. This force would be eventually known as the Afrika Korps, its astute commander Erwin Rommel alias the ‘Desert Fox’.

    Essentially the North African Campaign was a series of see saw battles which dragged both armies back and forth across an inhospitable terrain covering hundreds of miles of barren desert. There was a special code of behaviour in place between both sides, strangely it is a war without hate. An Indian Officer exclaims, “there is time to be helpful to those who share your adventure”. The initiative passes from one side to the other, then back again. Reinforcements, ammunition, fuel, food and, water, determine the outcome of the war; the Allies control both land and air supply lines.

    Accounts of Muslim heroism

    ‘Hardly had the first wave of panzers gone when another and much heavier attack was launched by over two hundred German and Italian tanks. They came rumbling up towards the south face of the position, held by the Royal Lancers. They were greeted by a hail of fire from all remaining
    anti-tank guns and the forward guns of the second field regiment. The first to meet the enemy was an anti-tank gun manned by the 2nd Lancers. One by one the men became casualties under the hell of shells and bullets, until only Lance Daffadar Ali Mehboob Khan remained. He continued to fire the gun alone. How well he fought was proved by his success. Around his battered and broken gun a week later was found the wreckage of 6 heavy tanks, so damaged that the Germans had not considered them worth salving.’

    ‘In the meantime the 16th Punjab regiment had waited impatiently in the valley below the main ridges. This great battalion thought little of a plan of battle which left them in reserve. When fighting broke out after midnight, Lieutenant-Colonel H.A. Hughes dispatched one company…, to seize low ridges on the left of the main battle position. As these companies moved off, a heavy shoot came down on the crests ahead of them. Then through the night burst the yell that has rung over so many hills. The Punjabi Muslims were charging with their age-old war cry of ‘Allah Ho Akbar’. They swept over the ridges and cut down or captured every defender.’

    Final Battle for North Africa

    The final battle for North Africa, culminates on 11 May 1943 in Tunisia, 275,000 Italian and German soldiers surrender to the Allies. Montgomery, the British commander declares that the 4th Indian is Britain’s ‘best’ infantry division in North Africa.

    In a letter to Churchill, General Alexander writes; ‘Sir, It is my duty to report that the Tunisian Campaign is over. All enemy resistance has ceased. We are masters of the North African shores’.

    The Italian Campaign 1943 – 1945

    The Allies are ready to assault mainland Europe through the toe of Italy. Thousands of battle hardened Germans pour into the Italian peninsula, among them, the legendary Fallschirmjaegers and paratroopers. On 3 Sept, the Italians surrender, and the Germans are forced to fight alone. Italy’s mountainous terrain, fortified villages and numerous rivers are perfect for military defence. The Italian topography, combined with the skill of elite German units, makes the conquest of Italy an arduous and bloody affair. The Allies will be forced to fight for Italy metre by metre.

    Among the first to arrive on the Italian mainland are the 8th Indian Division who sailed into Taranto harbour on 19 September 1943. The 4th Indian Division follow on 8 December 1943. The last Indian Infantry Division to arrive on mainland Italy are the 10th in March 1944.

    Muslim Award winners

    Ali Haidar of the Frontier Force Rifles, on the Senio River in Apr 1945, attempted the hazardous river crossing. Single-handedly he charged and destroyed a German machine gun post, taking four prisoners. Though wounded, he illustrated a complete disregard for his own life and charged a second, once again hit, he crawled forward and forced the occupants to surrender. His selfless action enabled his company to establish a bridgehead. Haidar was awarded the coveted Victoria Cross – Britain’s most prestigious military decoration for valour in the face of the enemy. It was presented to him by King George VI in Buckingham Palace in Oct 1945.

    Jemadar Abdul Hamid, a Punjabi Muslim, was recommended an award for his daring actions near the Sant Angelo area. Though his platoon had been reduced to thirteen men he pushed forth, in a subsequent skirmish he killed two and captured twelve Germans in the first positions and captured thirteen in the second.

    Overall, the Italian campaign came with a dreadful cost to the Indians, in total they had approximately 60,000 men on the ground. Over a period of 22 months, there were more than 15,000 injured and 7,000 dead. The heaviest Indian losses, 4,000 casualties, were sustained in the battles for the strategically important Monte Cassino. It was one of the bloodiest battles of the Second World War.

    Unbeknown to many, Italy is home to the graves of some 122 Indian soldiers aged between 15 and 17. Ninety out of the 122 are Muslim and 89 of them belong to areas within pre-partition Pakistan. Because of the dip in Hindu and Sikh enlistment between 1940 – 1942, Britain came to rely heavily upon the Muslim population. Since the majority of the Muslim martial traditions resided in north-west Pakistan this is where Britain filled its ranks from. Most of the adult population were already fighting in Britain’s wars which meant that an increasing number of teenagers were accepted into the military.

  121. there you go again Bones – a banal review of a marriage of convenience. King David himself has alliances of convenience while in exile; disenfranchised from the throne.


    “How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property – either as a child, a wife, or a concubine – must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the faith: all know how to die but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”

    Winston S. Churchill, The River War, First edition, Vol. II (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899), pp. 248-250.

    the trouble is with neo paganism there has come a fall of science. Winston never thought through the profound problems with Darwinism and its effect on society, The West fell and continues to fall – as did the former Roman Empire. The fall started from within,

    Water off a duck back. You can’t hear a word i say Bones. This is for the witnesses.

  122. Yes the Islamophobe pulls out Churchill’s 1899 quote written at a time when Britain’s conquests included those against the Mad Mullah.

    Fact is Churchill depended upon the Muslims like France did in WWII.

    It really is an absurdity that a country that treat its subjects like the Brits and the French did the Muslims with complete contempt yet have to rely on them for the survival of it’s kingdom.

    That must cause bile to rise in your throat.

  123. We should be thankful to Charles Darwin

    Some people might also tell you about the mass of scientists who deny evolution and they may even produce lists of them. This looks very impressive, but the truth of the matter is even more impressive. Statistically, there are more historians who deny the Holocaust than biologists who deny evolution.

    We should be thankful to Charles Darwin. His pioneering work, coupled with the later evidence of DNA, shows not that we were planted on the Earth, but that we come from the earth. We’re chemically related to the rocks, and we’re biologically related to plants and animals. We’re not separate from creation; we’re part of it.

    Knowing this should transform how we treat one another, because apart from superficial differences like skin colour and facial features, we are all genetically related – and so the people of China, South America, Indonesia, North Africa, and all points in between really are my brothers and sisters. And it should also transform how we treat other animals as well as the ecosystems they reside in.

    But to our shame we don’t tend to hear that. What we do tend to hear are the noisy calls from those on the extremes. Argument weak, shout louder.

  124. Most Christians that I know accept both that we are part of creation, and also that Chinese and Indonesians are our brothers and sisters.

    And getting back to the original thread ….the writer of the articles talks about Nahllia not being white, and the multi-racial composition of the audience at his campaign launch.

    And entecostal churches are usually the most racially integrated in the town.

  125. Mosque Hosts Christian Church’s Easter Services

    SACRAMENTO (CBS13) – A Sacramento mosque broke religious barriers today when, for the first time, it allowed a Christian congregation inside to hold Easter services.

    Spiritual Life Center lost its lease one week ago, leaving its parishioners without a place to worship for Easter. That’s when Salam Community Center on College Oak Drive offered its mosque to the Christian church.

    “I mean, we saw the opportunity to help them,”said mosque spokesman Adnan Syed

    Traditionally, non-Muslim churches are not allowed to hold meetings inside mosques.

    Spiritual Life’s reverend, Michael Moran, called it history in the making.

    “My heart is filled with generosity for the Muslim community to allow us to meet here today on Easter,” said Taylor Moran, a parishioner.

    “I heard people are coming from the bay area — all over the place just to witness this one-of-a-kind event. And we’re just happy to be a part of it,” said Syed.

    Worshipers packed the Salam Center for both Easter services to celebrate one of the most important days of the year for Christians.

    “It’s just a once in a lifetime, and I hope it spreads,” said Molly White, a parishioner.

    Today marks a breaking of tradition with the hopes of creating a new one.

    “We’d love to see more of this not only here, but across the nation,” said Syed.

    Spiritual Life Center is still looking for a new place to worship.

  126. Why Christians Should Support the ‘Ground Zero Mosque’

    As an Evangelical Christian, three pillars of my faith guide my response to this trumped-up controversy: forgiveness rooted in the Cross, the value for Truth, and the call to love our neighbor.

    Evangelicals believe in the power of the Cross, the place where Jesus died at the hands of his enemies; the place where Jesus uttered, “Forgive them Father for they know not what they do”; the place that makes radical forgiveness possible. Yet the Muslim world did not perpetrate the terrorist acts of 9/11, so there is actually no need to forgive Muslims for 9/11. The fault sits squarely with Al Qaeda, a small terrorist organization. And therein lies is the irony. We have failed to do the lesser thing. Jesus calls us to follow him into forgiveness of our enemy. But forgiveness isn’t politically profitable. So we have been led by Evangelical hacks like Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck to feed on misdirected bitterness rather than follow Jesus’ lead.

    Fear and hysteria are no excuse for muddled language and twisted truths. Jesus says, “I am the way, the truth and the life.” Thus, to suppress truth is to suppress Jesus himself. Why would Jesus care about truth? Because lies destroy people made in the image of God, thus destroying the image of God on Earth. We would do well to remember that the next time Newt Gingrich rants that building a mosque in the shadow of the World Trade Center is like the Nazis putting a swastika next to the Holocaust Museum. Come on….

    My faith’s values for forgiveness, truth, and love of neighbor lead me to conclude that politicians using the Islamic community center as an opportunity to score political points are mounting a direct assault against the honor of the dead — not just the 59 Muslim Americans who died but also all those whose lives were stolen by the hands of terrorists on September 11, 2001. They are betraying the heart of our country. Worse, they are betraying the first amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which guarantees the free exercise of religion. And this is the one freedom Islamic extremists despise most.

  127. Are Islamophiles Islamofascists by default?
    Have the multi cultics guaranteed an Australian civil war? A Syrian tomorrow. Honour killings, here!

    what can I say to a Darwinian Islamophile allah genuflector?

    That’s the point isn’t it.

    I’m talking at you rather than to you fears no man, anonymous no boner Bones. To you would imply morphic form. Word not returning void. Affective congruence.

    and lets see, you didn’t even know the meaning of taqiyya?

    ooops. My mistake Bones. Broad is the way. If truth was a consensus decision you’d be right with the numbers. Numbers would be all you needed. But its not the gospel. And neither is Darwin biblical – he failed.. Just ain’t what happened. isn’t laboratory empirical science. Lee Spetner et al, for a synopsis of the problems..

  128. Christians don’t support the mosque, Bones, the foundation of hell;gehenna and the place of the dead are it’s fundamental pillars;supports;towers and uprights.

  129. I’m seeing through you, Christ hater.

    “And neither is Darwin biblical”

    Remember that when your kids get sick. We only need to think of our advances and understandings of medicine to see how evolution has benefited us. I suppose you’ll reject antibiotics in your medieval view of the world. You would rather have us back in the days of the Dark Ages when religion ruled.

    I know perfectly well the misuse and downright lies of Muslim haters who twist taqiyya and kitman to legitimise their hatred of Muslims. (Have Christians ever lied to convert someone? Would you lie to someone to bring them to faith? Some would).

    The facts say something else.

    “Those who wish to attack Islam almost always bring up the point of “taqiyya” and they explain that Muslims believe it is okay to lie – and even that Muslims are encouraged to lie to non-Muslims – about anything and everything, therefore one can not trust Muslims at all.

    First and foremost, let us define what taqiyya is and what it is not. Taqiyya is the process whereby a Muslim may conceal his faith under great duress or compulsion. In the Shari’ah it is not a process whereby a Muslim can lie wholesale about anything at anytime.

    Many anti-Islam websites explain that Muslims are allowed to make “taqiyya”, which they explain as lying in a general sense. However, one point that is missed is that often the definition and evidences put forward by such people and websites are taken from Shia Islam, a minority sect comprising less than 10% of Muslims today. The definition of taqiyya in Shia scholarship is currently, and has been, rejected by mainstream Sunni Islam. Within Shia Islam lying is permitted without all the conditions mentioned previously (compulsion or duress) and beyond the bounds of concealing faith out of fear (expanding the practice in a more general sense) – it must also be mentioned, out of fairness, that there is diversity of thought and opinion within the school of Shia’ism and some groups and/or scholars put forward a definition of taqiyya closer to how it is understood by Sunni scholarship. With that in mind, the point to be made here is that often the evidences put forward when people attack Islam with this line of thought are “proofs” taken from Shia sources. Interestingly, a simply search will result in “taqiyya” being classified under the Shia Islam section Wikipedia, which leads one to wonder if those who write such websites are doing any actual research or simply copy-pasting ideas which have been posted elsewhere.

    By the Shia definition (the one used one websites and by those who wish to attack Islam), Sunni Muslims (over 90% of Muslims) do not believe in taqiyya. Furthermore Sunni Scholars have rejected that definition since the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and have clarified what “taqiyya” is within the mainstream belief of Islam – that is only to conceal one’s faith under compulsion or duress only. In addition to that Sunni Islam believes lying is forbidden and only made permissible in specific cases, and even in these three cases it is disliked – it is never encouraged. A Muslim can not lie to spread Islam, as is often claimed, in mainstream Sunni Islam.”

    Broad is the way. And you have followed the lies, ignorance and hysterics of the haters. How easy it is to hate and accept lies when our Saviour says forgive and seek truth.

  130. @Bones

    “Broad is the way.”

    Oh really?

    Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Matt 7:13-14

  131. Controversy=

    24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

    “Be glad, barren woman,
    you who never bore a child;
    shout for joy and cry aloud,
    you who were never in labor;
    because more are the children of the desolate woman
    than of her who has a husband.”[e]
    (Galatians 4)

  132. I understood that penicillin was discovered accidentally by Fleming, so i have no idea what Darwin has to do with it. It was science, yes, which ultimately made it into a successful antibiotic, but it was complete accident of an experiment which brought it to Fleming’s attention, and not for the first time in his career, either.

    Claiming godlike status for evolution is a red herring. Discovery of medicines is not dependent on evolutionary theory. It is dependent on trial and error research and experimentation, although scientists probably use more scientific terms.

    On the Muslim argument, there is no question we ned to have sound relationships with Muslims, and we need to realise that not all are militant or violent, but we cannot, as Christians, be drawn into a scenario where we declare any other way to the Father to be acceptable.

    There is only one way to the Father, and that is through faith in the Son.

    If we assist Islam we are not promoting Christianity. Jesus did not have any middle ground. He said we either gather or we scatter. If we are not gathering to Him we are scattering.

    This wholly catholic notion that we can embrace all and any religion and incorporate it into catholic belief is apostasy. Catholic mission worldwide has made a mockery of the gospel by allowing worship of local gods, and even pageants, accompanied by parades of statues of saints and the Madonna, as part of their approach to evangelism, but it is nothing like the commission we have been given, where Christ says believers who preach the gospel will be persecuted for His name’s sake, imprisoned and even martyred.

    Building a false religion alongside it is an affront to the martyrs.

    James called association with foreign gods adultery, which was one of the themes of the Old Testament, where Israel ran after other gods and God Himself called it adultery, ad which James brings into the New Testament.

    Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

    So if you want to help build a mosque or a temple to another god, go ahead, but I don’t think it is approved of by God, nor do I think Jesus would have joined Mohammad in building his empire.

    No, far more difficult is the preaching of the gospel, where they are likely to stone you for your beliefs.

    Yes, love your enemies, a give them your coat, walk the extra mile, bless them with your goods and love them into the kingdom, but do not build their shrine.

  133. “The Story of the Good, Gay Muslim”

    Does your Jesus accept Gay peoples? Because I think I starting to look at other mans. I’m not think my family will like this and our mosque will not be happy.

    Does Christianity accept peoples who are Homosexual?

  134. @DoC

    My guess is Bones, but then he’d need to use a different IP address to fool Greg. Unless Greg is in on it. Wazza is another contender too

  135. Wow two posts by roundhouse which add nothing to the threads. thats a change. and he still doesnt know what hes talking about.

  136. @Bones

    By the way, I noticed you haven’t addressed my demolition of your “broad is the way” comment.

  137. You obviously can’t read.

    Broad is the way for the liars and haters of Christ. Those who fall for the abject lies of islamophobes. Those who deny science and evidence and want to live in the Dark Ages. Those who want to keep people apart.

    Yeah broad is that way..

    Far easier to hate and not seek out truth and peace.

    And you’re on it.

  138. PhillipGeorge do you become a partaker in the Crusades or the Bosnian genocide?

    Wtf is an eschatologist? Give us an example of a supposed eschatologist?

    Yeah big argument there. Eschatologists hey?

    The Harold Camplings of the world.

  139. straw men to a tee.

    What you have welded yourself to is the Qur’an and allah.

    You, thus, own it.

    It took till the 20th Century to achieve escape velocity – to get outside this atmosphere. But one cannot reconcile a bible to a Coran [see older references]. They are mutually exclusive documents.
    One is satanic – in essence – in origin.

    So here cometh the Censors to fight the Gospel. They lose.

  140. Bones,
    Broad is the way for the liars and haters of Christ. Those who fall for the abject lies of islamophobes. Those who deny science and evidence and want to live in the Dark Ages. Those who want to keep people apart.

    I think you’re splashing a broad stroke with that statement, Bones.

    No one denied science or evidence. Evolution didn’t discover penicillin. It already existed and a man noticed it and experimented with it. God obviously caused bacteria to come into being. Men saw it and worked with it. That is the way of things, and has been for centuries. It didn’t make itself, as you claim. it didn’t evolve, It was there since the creation.

    I think you’ve used evolution as your bottom line of development at the expense of scripture, which is plain to see, and clearly wrong, and I think you’ve used radical views of your own to elevate your arguments, which indicate a tendency towards disingenuous stretching of the points you try to make.

    You have taken an extremist view of Islam, also, in the way you represent other people’s arguments. Sadly, that is your way.

    I understand your desire to promote some kind of fairness and equity with all peoples, but you fail because you draw a line in the sand and create sides, turn those you exclude into enemies, and determine with all the folly you can muster, to defend the perspective which most fits your own ideology.

    And you’re prepared to go to great levels of ill-conceived logic to enforce your bias. In so doing you alienate anyone who finds your views overbearing, including those who might otherwise be neutral, or empathetic without being completely on side with you.

    It is the most thoughtless, destructive of debating styles, and very frustrating to work with, even when we make the attempt.

  141. @Philip

    No point arguing using the bible with Bones. He doesn’t believe most of it. Only the bits that support his myopic and Christless theology.

  142. “So here cometh the Censors to fight the Gospel. They lose.”

    Are you the Gospel?

    I wasn’t aware that Alan Jones was Jesus.


  143. “They lose”

    Really! How’s creation going being taught in schools? How’s the divorce laws? Gays aren’t being thrown in gaol?

    What we can’t arrest people who don’t hold to your myopic brand of religion eg Muslims, Catholics?

    Yeah you’re winning.


  144. Steve, PhillipGeorge’s argument is that Darwinism is evil.

    That’s what I’m responding to. He is obviously a Young Earth Creationist.

  145. “You have taken an extremist view of Islam, also, in the way you represent other people’s arguments. Sadly, that is your way.”

    That’s bs.

    Who’s taking the extremist view of Islam?

    All Muslims are terrorists and are a threat to our society.

    What a complete and abject lie.

    Who’s spreading fear and hate?

    You said you work with Muslims yet you defend bigots.

    Amazing and hypocritical.


  146. What has Alan Jones got to do with anything? You talk about others posting irrelevant stuff, yet you are the master of it. Hypocrite

  147. No I don’t defend bigots. I defend the right to be correctly represented in what i say and think. Let PG defend himself. I’m sure he’s capable.

    I don’t agree with his views, and find them extreme. But I was making the point that you ruin your own argument by misrepresenting those who are debating you in extreme ways. t’s not helpful.

    And Greg has once again produced a provocative post, so why would you expect anything but controversy on the thread?

    I think Darwin was misguided rather than evil, but his theories have been used in both positive and negative ways by opportunists, and that the Church is being pressured to lay down its mandate to take up a false premise.

  148. @Bones

    “Another irrelevant post from the master of irrelevance and ad hominem attacks.”

    For a second there I thought Greg had deleted your post and added his own comment on what you wrote. It’s actually a pretty good description of your commenting style. Well done for saying it like it is Bones. I’m proud of you!

  149. “I don’t agree with his views, and find them extreme.”

    I apologise for my comments earlier. They were wrong.

    Forgive me.

  150. But why would anyone want to vote for a minor party? It makes no sense. God forms Governments, and we pray for them.

    What’s Nalliah going to do? Hold the balance of power? He’ll lose his deposit. Call that prophecy if you like!

    I think he is an opportunist who tries hard but, on the end, puts a bad taste in the mouths of Pentecostals who know the Word and understand how prophecy works.

    Nonsense post!

  151. This thread is going in all manner of directions, but I am curious Steve that in relation to Darwin you said “…the Church is being pressured to lay down its mandate to take up a false premise.” Am I correct in my assumption based on that comment that you do not believe in evolution? If not, would you consider yourself a young or old earth creationist?

  152. “But why would anyone want to vote for a minor party? It makes no sense. God forms Governments, and we pray for them.”

    I’ve been think about that and Romans 13:1.

    In the days of kings and emperors, governments for better or worse were seen as appointed by God. The people didn’t get a say. Now governments are supposedly elected by popular vote in what we call democracy.

    I question if that notion of God appointed government still exists.

  153. I’m not as young as I used to be, Jack, but I would’t say I was old yet. And I am a believer in creation. That’s because I believe in God, and nothing is impossible with God.

    I see scientists were disappointed that the Higgs Boson failed to conclusively prove the big bang theory.

    In the beginning the Word!

  154. Bones,
    The people didn’t get a say.

    In fact God told them to choose themselves a king, after he had offered to reign over them, and warned them what a King would do.

    I think we get what we pray for, but since most people don’t pray, we get what didn’t pray for!

  155. { Am I correct in my assumption based on that comment that you do not believe in evolution? }

    Why do monkey’s still exist?
    Why are there still apes?

  156. Don’t be scared of science, Steve.

    The Higgs boson: What has God got to do with it?

    (Reuters) – “We don’t call it the ‘God particle’, it’s just the media that do that,” a senior U.S. scientist politely told an interviewer on a major European radio station on Tuesday.
    “Well, I am the from the media and I’m going to continue calling it that,” said the journalist – and continued to do so.
    The exchange, as physicists at the CERN research centre near Geneva were preparing to announce the latest news from their long and frustrating search for the Higgs boson, illustrated sharply how science and the popular media are not always a good mix.
    “I hate that ‘God particle’ term,” said Pauline Gagnon, a Canadian member of CERN’s ATLAS team of so-called “Higgs hunters” – an epithet they do not reject.
    “The Higgs is not endowed with any religious meaning. It is ridiculous to call it that,” she told Reuters at a news conference after her colleagues revealed growing evidence, albeit not yet proof, of the particle’s existence.
    Oliver Buchmueller, from the rival research team CMS, was a little less trenchant.
    “Calling it the ‘God particle’ is completely inappropriate,” said the German physicist, who divides his time between CERN and teaching at London’s Imperial College.
    “It’s not doing justice to the Higgs and what we think its role in the universe is. It has nothing to do with God.”
    The Higgs boson is being hunted so determinedly because it would be the manifestation of an invisible field – the Higgs field – thought to permeate the entire universe.
    The field was posited in the 1960s by British scientist Peter Higgs as the way that matter obtained mass after the universe was created in the Big Bang.
    As such, according to the theory, it was the agent that made the stars, planets – and life – possible by giving mass to most elementary particles, the building blocks of the universe; hence the nickname “God particle.”
    “Without it, or something like it, particles would just have remained whizzing around the universe at the speed of light,” said Pippa Wells, another Atlas researcher.
    But Wells also has no time for theological terminology in describing it.
    “Hearing it called the ‘God particle’ makes me angry. It confuses people about what we are trying to do here at CERN.”
    According to people who have investigated the subject, the term originated with a 1993 history of particle physics by U.S. Nobel prize winner Leon M Lederman.
    The book was titled: “The God Particle: If the Universe is the Answer, What is the Question?”
    Physicists say Lederman, who over the years has been the target of much opprobrium from his scientific colleagues, tells friends he wanted to call the book “The Goddamned Particle” to reflect frustration at the failure to find it.
    But, according to that account, his publisher rejected the epithet – possibly because of its potential to upset a strongly religious U.S. public – and convinced Lederman to accept the alternative he proposed.
    “Lederman has a lot to answer for,” said Higgs himself, now 82, on a visit to Geneva some six years ago.
    But James Gillies, spokesman for CERN and himself a physicist, is slightly more equivocal.
    “Of course it has nothing to do with God whatsoever,” he says. “But I can understand why people go that way because the Higgs is so important to our understanding of nature.”
    (Reporting by Robert Evans; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

  157. “In fact God told them to choose themselves a king, after he had offered to reign over them, and warned them what a King would do.”

    So a God appointed government elected by the people can be replaced in a coup by another God appointed government which weren’t voted for (see Chile, Argentina, Fiji, Germany).

    I’m confused.

  158. { The Higgs boson: What has God got to do with it? }

    God has nothing to do with it.
    In this case the faithless are trying to prove that God does not exist.
    Very tempting for those that get puffed up with idle notions.

    13 Let no one say when he is tempted, I am tempted from God; for God is incapable of being tempted by [what is] evil and He Himself tempts no one.
    14 But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions).
    15 Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death.(James 1)

  159. OK Steve, I will re-state the question so that I can try and get an answer to my original question. Do you believe that the universe is aged in the thousand’s of years, which would seem to fit with a literal interpretation of Genesis, or do you believe it is billions of years old, which would fit with established scientific thought?

  160. Will the ‘God Particle’ Change Theology?

    King Arthur had his quest for the Holy Grail. Physicists hope they are hot on the trail of the Higgs particle. You might call it the final puzzle piece, needed to complete our picture of how all the fundamental particles make up the universe.

    Joe Lykken at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Illinois has been part of this quest since the early 1980s.

    “Our former director, Leon Lederman, called the Higgs particle the God Particle,” Lykken says. “It was not meant to be a religious comment, it was meant to express our understanding of how the universe works. We think without a Higgs boson you can’t have a universe in the first place.”

    At the very least, the universe would be incredibly boring. That’s because the Higgs particle, or Higgs boson, is supposed to explain why the atoms in the galaxies, the stars, the earth at our feet, and in our bodies, have mass. If they didn’t have mass, we wouldn’t exist as physical beings.

    “We think the Higgs boson is a manifestation of the fact that the universe is filled with a force that we haven’t been able to detect yet, that gives other particles mass,” Lykken says. (via Is The Hunt For The ‘God Particle’ Finally Over? : NPR.)

  161. @Jack

    Micro-evolution is a provable fact. Species evolve and adapt to environments. Macro-Evolution ie that every living creature evolved from microbes, is unprovable, and in fact has been easily disproved by many reputable scientists. The world has been sold a lie that we evolved and weren’t created. It cannot be proven at all, which is why it will always remain a theory, albeit an easily disproved one

  162. Extinction thwarts evolution, Bones.

    { “Our former director, Leon Lederman, called the Higgs particle the God Particle,” Lykken says. }

    god (n.)
    Old English god “supreme being, deity; the Christian God; image of a god; godlike person,” from Proto-Germanic *guthan (cf. Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Dutch god, Old High German got, German Gott, Old Norse guð, Gothic guþ), from PIE *ghut- “that which is invoked” (cf. Old Church Slavonic zovo “to call,” Sanskrit huta- “invoked,” an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- “to call, invoke.”

    1.the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

    People still searching for Christ, i hope they find him.

  163. Roundhouse, have we really been “sold a lie”? You say macro-evolution has been easily disproved – could you provide some information and/or links to where this has happened?

  164. @Bones

    “Why did dinosaurs not evolve?”

    They did.

    Hang on, I thought you evolutionists teach that they were wiped out by a giant meteor? Why can’t you make up your minds? Makes your theories seem made up. Oh, wait…….

  165. How retarded are you?

    You do realise that dinosaurs evolved and became extinct over millions of years and lived in different periods.

    The dinosaurs of the Triassic and Jurassic Period were not the same as the dinosaurs of the Cretaceous.

    Dimetrodon (Triassic) never met a Tyrranosaurus or raptor ( both Cretaceous) and probably not an Allosaurus (Jurassic).

    A primary school kid could tell you that.

    That’s why atheists laugh at Christians.

    They are so ignorant.

  166. @Bones

    The modern theory is that the dinosaurs were wiped out by a giant meteor. Your “lesson” in the different types of dinosaurs has no relevance to this event. I am not talking about different types of dinosaurs. Schools teach that the dinosaurs were wiped out, full stop. You are just trying to divert and change course, again. Who’s the retard now?

  167. Roundhouse, a simple Google search takes me to Whilst Wikipedia has it’s limitations, it has numerous links that suggest that the vast majority of scientists support Darwin’s theory of evolution. So it is it more reasonable to go with the vast majority or a tiny minority in something like this? Can there be compatability between evolution and Christianity?

  168. @Jack

    Of course the vast majority of scientists believe evolution. Firstly, the vast majority are agnostic or atheist, so their own philosophies would not allow them to entertain any notion of design. Secondly, any scientist who goes against the trend is demonised and vilified. And thirdly, because the theory is so widely believed, most scientists just accept it and don’t even question it’s validity. Only those who study the subject from a neutral position (which is what science is meant to do) will realise that there are many holes in the theory. For example, no scientist as yet has been able to explain with any certainty the existance of the Fibonacci sequence in nature, and how something so mathematically complex can be exhibited in nature without some kind of design. But because this question then leads to the existence of a possible creator they just ignore the question because then the answer will open up more evidence of design. It’s easier for them to just follow the party line, and demonise those who have discovered the truth.

  169. @Jack

    “Can there be compatability between evolution and Christianity?”

    Not from a macro-evolutionary point of view. Evolution shuts God out of the picture, and of course flies in the face of the biblical account. However, as I said, micro-evolution is an observable scientific occurrence and has no bearing on the biblical belief of creation

  170. Jack, just spend a week at
    for reading about the limits to speciation/ adaptation/ acclimatization – read all about it.

    Why did Francis Crick entertain panspermia? etc etc etc.

    After Eden, Darwinian rationalism has been the greatest “science falsely so called” since Muhammad recommended cupping/ said that mountains supported the sky and referred to unborn humans as simple ‘leech like clot’ thingies.

    From Darwin to Multi Culticism to Bomb Belt fashion statement Martyrs is actually a fairly seamless transition.

    allah hu akbar – just get your facts on Islam from a Koran, not Bones.

  171. Of course evolution is confirmed in all strands of science: geology, archaeology, palaeontology, biology, micro and molecular biology, medicine, genetics.

  172. Evolutionarily speaking, the best way to ensure success is to have as many offspring as possible (ergo the Baldwin brothers). The sunflower naturally evolved a method to pack as many seeds on its flower as space could allow. Amazingly, the sunflower seeds grow adjacently at an angle of 137.5 degrees from each other, which corresponds exactly to the golden ratio. Additionally, the number of lines in the spirals on a Sunflower is almost always a number of the Fibonacci sequence.

    Like the sunflower, the pine cone evolved the best way to stuff as many seeds as possible around its core. Also, in what was surely an accident, it evolved into perhaps the best substitute for toilet paper when in a pinch. The golden ratio is the key yet again. As with the sunflower, the number of spirals almost always is a Fibonacci number.

    Human body

    The golden ratio is found throughout your body, all the way to your DNA.

    Here’s one you can see for yourself, dear reader, if you’re still with us. If you use your fingernail length as a unit of measure, the bone in the tip of your finger should be about 2 fingernails, followed by the mid portion at 3 fingernails, followed by the base at about 5 fingernails. The final bone goes all the way to about the middle of your palm, which is a length of about 8 fingernails. Again, it’s Fibonacci at work and the ratio of each bone to the next comes very close to the golden ratio.

    Continuing with the length of your hand to your arm is, again, the golden ratio.

    Fibonacci applies even down to what makes you, you. A DNA strand is exactly 34 by 21 angstroms.

    The Fibonacci sequence is truly a wonder. The examples are vast, and go way beyond the scale of this article. The patterns in which a tree grows branches, the way water falls in spiderwebs, even the way your own capillaries are formed can all be linked to Fibonacci. Science is just beginning to understand the implications of this simple sequence and some of the most amazing discoveries may be yet to come.


  173. Or you could read about the Creation Ministries International v Answers In Genesis fiasco.

    There’s professional behaviour of supposed Christian scientists.

    Legal controversy between Answers in Genesis and Creation Ministries International

    A legal and personal dispute broke out between the Australian and US arms of AIG in 2005, involving claims of unethical dealing in the handling of magazine subscriptions and autocratic leadership on the part of Ken Ham. AIG, in return, accused the leaders of the Australian ministry of “spiritual problems”,[2] asking, in correspondence to the Australian CEO Carl Wieland, if he had issues with immorality, and enlisting a former enemy to exhume decades-old allegations[3] of witchcraft and necrophilia against a CMI staffer (now Wieland’s wife)

    Great work creationists.

    That’s one way to discredit your enemies I suppose.

    Keep digging up dirt on each other and leave the sane people and truth alone.

  174. Roundhouse, you make it sound like a massive conspiracy by the scientific community to disprove the existence of God. Is that really likely to be the case? If it really is true that life evolved over billions of years, could that not be a process set in place by God? I am trying to see what compatabilty there can be between science and Christianity if evolution is true.

  175. @Bones

    “Of course evolution is confirmed in all strands of science: geology, archaeology, palaeontology, biology, micro and molecular biology, medicine, genetics.”

    No it ain’t. Each one of these scientific disciplines has holes in their theories which are simply ignored or put in the ‘we don’t know yet, but….’ basket. Anyone who says that each of these disciplines are complete in their knowledge and have all the answers is a liar

  176. It’s idiots like PhillipGeorge who disgrace the name of Jesus Christ.

    Because of people like him and his superstitions which he wants to foist onto the world, Christ is seen as irrrelevant, nonsensical, ignorant, deceitful, judgmental, mythical and anti-intellectual.

    What creationists do isn’t science for a start.

    The scientific method is to start with a hypothesis, test it, see if the evidence confirms your hypothesis, than come to a conlusion.

    Creationists start with the conclusion than try to make the evidence fit it.

    That’s not science.

    Can we imagine what would happen if medicine behaved like that?

  177. ” I am trying to see what compatabilty there can be between science and Christianity if evolution is true.”

    Of course it is Jack.

    Some of us here have grown up and out of the whole Christianity v Evolution myth.

    That’s for babies.

    Of course Genesis is not a scientific nor eye witness account of creation. It is an account to explain why there is sin (evil) in the world. It is at best metaphorical and highly mythical.

    Most Christians (Catholics, Anglicans, Uniting, even Evangelicals) accept evolution as a fact.

    I’m glad my kids won’t be confused at school by having to accept evolution or Jesus.

    How stupid is that?

  178. @Jack

    “Roundhouse, you make it sound like a massive conspiracy by the scientific community to disprove the existence of God.”

    No, I dont really believe that it is a massive conspiracy by these scientists. As I said before, there are several reasons why the evidence of design is ignored, but a conspiracy is not really one of them, at least where regular science is concerned. At the top levels, who knows? We have seen much evidence that at the top levels of Climate Science there is a definite conspiracy to hide the truth of the stasis of the world’s climate over the last 17 years, so it is altogether possible that there may be some conspiracy to hide the truth and demonise those who reject the scientific status quo of evolution, like there is in Climate Science. Regardless, the theory of eveolution, which states that there is no God, or that He was not involved in designing our world plays right into Satan’s hands, whose goal is to make mankind totally reject the existence of God, and evolutionary theory is the vehicle by which this is being achieved. If you look at our history, the decline of Christianity in the West began with Darwin’s publication of his theories. And sadly, many so called believers, like Bones, are also playing into Satan’s hands by elevating science and man’s intellect above God and His word.

  179. Nation’s Top Christian Geneticist Defends God and Evolution

    WASHINGTON – No microscope, Petri dish, or buffer was in sight as one of the nation’s leading geneticists, Dr. Francis Collins, stepped out of the laboratory and took off his lab coat to assume the role of a Christian apologist under the vaulted ceiling and intricately carved stone wall decorations of the famed Washington National Cathedral.
    “So you’re a believer and you’re a geneticist – doesn’t your head explode at this point,” joked Collins drawing laughter from the crowd after noting that he became a Christian during medical school at the age of 27.
    Collins, the director of the National Human Genome Research Institute at the National Institute of Health, gave a lecture Friday evening on “God and the Genome,” reconciling the Bible’s creation story with evolution and sharing how science should actually bolster a person’s faith instead of dismantling it.
    “For me – as a scientist who is a believer [that] doesn’t think those things have to be compartmentalized – the exploration of nature and the discovery about good things about the human body becomes not only an exhilaration of personal resort but also becomes a glimpse of God’s mind,” said Collins.
    “In that regard, science can be and should be a form of worship. You meet God in the laboratory and not only in a setting like this.”
    The geneticist criticized Young Earth creationism – or what he described as the fundamentalist interpretation of creation – which teaches that the Earth and life on Earth were created by a direct action of God relatively recently (about 6,000 years ago). It is held by those Christians who believe that the Hebrew text of Genesis can only mean a literal six (24-hour) day account of creation.

    Another variant of the creationist view, Old Earth creationism, while still generally taking the accounts of creation in Genesis more literally than theistic evolution (or evolutionary creationism), is more widely held by Christians and typically more compatible with mainstream scientific thought on the issues of geology, cosmology and the age of the Earth, in comparison to Young Earth creationism.

    Collins described the fundamentalist teaching as a “terrible, terrible dilemma” to put people in – especially young scientists – where they can only choose either their faith or science.
    He said he counseled many young scientists raised with the “narrow” interpretation that is in complete conflict with science, which asserts the earth as much older than thousands of years and that there is an evolution process.
    “There is simply no way to come up with an explanation of the earth being two thousand years old without basically throwing out all the basic principles of cosmology, theology, chemistry, physics and biology,” commented Collins excitedly.

    Collins explained that he believes evolution is part of God’s creation process. He pointed out that as he looks at the Bible’s creation process, it is the same as science’s evolution process in terms of formation chronology.
    “Is evolution really the enemy of faith?” questioned Collins. “I don’t think so at all! … Who are we to say that we wouldn’t have done it in quite that way?”
    The Christian geneticist argues that God gave man the ability to discover Him through science and that Christians should not feel in any way that God needs to be defended against findings of science.
    “Is the God who is the author of all creation threatened by our puny minds,” questioned Collins. “Is their belief in God not strong enough that He is the author of all of this? That He is hardly threatened by our discovery of this?”
    Collins, who recently debated prominent atheist biologist Richard Dawkins in Time magazine, concluded that people should not confuse the different questions that faith and science answers.
    “Faith helps answers different questions. ‘Why am I here?’ Science isn’t going to help you with that one,” said Collins. “’What is the meaning of life?’ No help from science there, either.
    “But aren’t those some of the most important questions? ‘Why’ questions? Science is great at ‘how’ but science is not good at ‘why.’”
    Francis S. Collins is recognized for his landmark discoveries of disease genes and successfully leading the effort to complete the Human Genome Project (HGP), a complex multidisciplinary scientific enterprise directed at mapping and sequencing all of the human DNA, and determining aspects of its function. He is the author of the book The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief and is invited to many settings to defend Christianity in debates about the existence of God and evolution.


  180. @Bones

    “Most Christians (Catholics, Anglicans, Uniting, even Evangelicals) accept evolution as a fact.”

    Garbage. Until I came to this website I had never met a person who calls themself a believer deny the story of creation. I have been in the Anglican movement, the Baptist movement and now the Pentecostal movement, and every single person I associated with in these churches fully believed and accepted the biblical account of Genesis. In fact, in one of my churches I was instrumental in organising a visit by the Creation Science people. Their presentation was incredible, and everyone was able to clearly see how the world has been decieved into believing the devil’s lies over God’s Word.

  181. @Bones

    “It’s you playing into Satan’s hands, Roundhouse. You turn Jesus Christ into a fool and a laughing stock.

    Well done.”

    How? By believing His word? Do you think Jesus cares that non-believers laugh at Him or His followers? He told us that the world would laugh at and persecute His followers. It comes with the territory. Whereas you obviously are too afraid of man. You would rather reject His word and believe man-made philosophies, so you bend yourself backwards and in knots trying to placate the non-believers and God haters. I hope it goes well for you. Whereas I will continue to believe God and His word, and If I get laughed at, and Jesus gets laughed at, well, that’s what we were told would happen.

  182. Sydney Anglicanism is totally different to Anglicanism in the rest of Australia. Most bishops believe that evolution is fact.

    Of course the Catholic catechism states that evolution is part of God’s design.

    You’ve helped perpetrate fraud, ignorance and confusion on the people of God.


  183. Creation science ministries are by and large engaged in deception.

    Most of those in it aren’t even specialists in the field they write on. Nor is their work peer reviewed. Basically they give an opinion on the evidence and try to fit it into their conclusion.

    It is not scientific in any sense.

  184. @Bones

    “You’ve helped perpetrate fraud,”

    So, God’s Word is fraud? You sad, sad man

  185. Kent Hovind: creationist liar and evil, evil, evil

    By Phil Plait | September 14, 2007 10:01 am

    Kent Hovind is an evil creationist liar who is currently cooling his backside in prison, convicted for evading $840,000 in taxes. That’s the good news. It’s downhill from there.

    His group, Creation Science Evangelism, has been on a pogrom — a jihad, if you will — taking down YouTube videos that reveal Hovind for what he is: an evil creationist liar. This group has been sending YouTube notices of copyright infringement, claiming that the anti-Hovind videos are using copyrighted material from Hovind himself.

  186. 7 things that are older than Ken Ham’s universe

    Young-earth creationists say that the universe is 6,000 years old. Scientists say the universe is around 14 billion years old.

    Young-earth creationists say this is because scientists are part of a vast, nefarious conspiracy designed to cast doubt on the literal words of a literal Bible by the evil practice of measuring and counting things. I’m not a scientist, but I am part of this conspiracy (the only way to make such a conspiracy work is to include all sorts of non-scientists — doctors, manufacturers, engineers, teachers, librarians, journalists, hobbyists, etc.).

    So as part of my contribution to our old-universe conspiracy, here is a list of Seven Things Recently in the News That Are Older Than Young-Earth Creationists’ Universe:

  187. In fact God told them to choose themselves a king, after he had offered to reign over them, and warned them what a King would do.

    Except that God supposedly pointed Sual out to Samuel, no one elected him to. Same with David…pointed out by God.

  188. The Evolution of Creationism

    “The debate about humanity’s Origins is resurgent. Our Federal Education minister has given qualified endorsement [since withdrawn] to the teaching of Intelligent Design. In the United States, (where else?), Intelligent Design is back in the Courts, and the Vatican has come out strongly to attack Intelligent Design as being both bad science and bad theology. What’s going on?

    Some say Intelligent Design merely peddles old arguments with a new vocabulary, or that they abuse a sense of “fair play” by insisting on “teaching the controversy”. So is “Intelligent Design”, Intelligently Designed?

    I work in an environment that is a crucible for such questions, at a large Christian, non-denominational school west of Sydney. We do not teach literal 6-day, 6-thousand year ago Creationism, although our acceptance of an “intelligent designer” in the Universe is axiomatic. Our school policy says, in part
    “The balance of physical evidence does not appear to support a young earth. We do not believe that scripture helps us to decide how old the earth is”. Unquote.

    At first glance, Intelligent Design, without the stigmas and inconsistencies of Young Earth Creationism, seems like a good fit for what we and many other Christian Schools teach. So what’s the problem?

    Intelligent Design advocates claim they have proof that certain mechanisms could never evolve into the form we see today if only undirected, natural processes were at work, even if given millions of years. Common examples quoted include the bacterial flagellum, the immune system, or the vertebrate eye. In pure “ID”, Natural Selection and billion-year timescales are readily accepted, although the identity of the putative “Intelligent Designer” is left for the listener to speculate. There are a lot of people who start winking and nudging at you with their Bibles when that point comes up.

    Young Earth Creationism holds that not only was the Judeo-Christian God Yahweh responsible for the Universe, but that it all happened in six days, 6000 years ago. It also asserts there were vegetarian Tyrannosaurs and funnelweb spiders in the Garden of Eden, and that once, two Koalas swam to Australia from Turkey, without eating along the way, to establish Australia’s breeding population.

    Such Young Earth Creationists have done a lot of harm to the Christian cause when they torture both the Bible and Science to evangelise. Smart, spiritually questing people who might respond to the message of the Gospel tend to get the giggles when they’re told that most of modern biology, geology and astronomy is a monstrous humanist conspiracy that leads to homosexuality, communism, terrorism and dancing.

    And it’s not a new problem. St Augustine had the gist 1600 years ago when he said “Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth … But it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn.”

    Young Earthers are the big losers in the emergence of Intelligent Design because sensible debate has moved beyond their specious arguments forever. Intelligent Design has eaten their demographic whole. But although Intelligent Design is comparatively benign, to see its danger, consider history, replete with pitfalls when we misuse Science as a pillar for Faith.

    The geocentricity of the universe was once held as proof of our special place in creation. Then came Galileo. The notion of biological “vitalism” has yielded to Biochemistry. Calvinists who found solace in Newton’s description of a clockwork, deterministic universe, blanched at the revelations of Quantum theory.

    These theories were regarded as self-evident, even Scriptural in their day. The temptation, then as now, is to invoke the “God of the Gaps” as a proof for faith. But when Scientific knowledge advances, those counselled into such a foundation, founder.

    Perhaps the last word belongs to old Charlie Darwin himself, who confided to a supporter: “I cannot be contented to view this wonderful universe, and especially the nature of man, and conclude that everything is the result of brute force. I am inclined to look at everything as resulting from designed laws, with the details, whether good or bad, left to the working out of what we may call chance.””

  189. @Eyes

    Bones can see nothing but his own self righteousness. And the CTRL C/CTRL V keys on his keyboard

  190. If human beings were previously apes(primates)then clearly human strength has ‘Diminished’ because apes can be about three times stronger then a normal human being.
    Going backwards is not evolution.(Becoming weaker is not gaining strength)

  191. Bones can see nothing but his own self righteousness.

    Actually those who dismiss truth and reason are usually in some sort of cult.

    Fact: Your creationist friends are deceivers and frauds.

  192. @Eyes

    You have hit the nail on the head. In order for, say, a tail to appear, or wings to grow, the genetic information needs to be added to, yet science has proven that genes only regress or mutate, and cannot have information added to them, ergo, a fish cannot turn into a bird, and an ape cannot turn into a man. This fact alone completely destroys the whole evolutionary argument.

  193. @Bones

    “Was Eve Asian, black or white?”

    She was most likely black. Asiatic and Caucasian genes are a regression or mutation of negroid genes

  194. @Bones

    “Geneticists Evolve Fruit Flies With the Ability to Count”

    Seems to me all they have done is discovered a latent ability for fruit flies to add up. Doesn’t prove evolution one bit. It only proves that they can count. What’s to say that they haven’t always been able to count, but no one actually checked to see if they could or not? This is not proof. Have they evolved them to love? Or to empathise? Or to grow a tail? Or to breath under water? Or to grow fur or feathers? Or to climb trees? Or to eat meat? Or to build engines?

  195. @Bones

    “Evolution is happening in labs.”

    This is called micro-evolution. The loss of genetic information leading to changes in the physiology of an organism. But, this is the opposite of what macro-evolution teaches. In order for a fish to leave the water and walk upright, it needs to have genetic information ADDED, which science has proven to be impossible. That means, evolution (in the understanding of it being the origins of life) is a load of scientific fantasy.

  196. “et science has proven that genes only regress or mutate, and cannot have information added to them”

    Are you saying the flu doesn’t evolve?

    This is what happens with Christians who have no idea what they’re talking about or saw it on a Ken Ham video 10 years ago and accept it as fact.

    Science moves on and has left you behind.

    How Evolution Adds New Information


  197. Humans have the genes for making tails, whales have the genes for making legs, chickens have the genes for teeth.

    All genes are deactivated.

  198. Bones’
    Where did these come from and where are they going.

    List of plants by common name
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The common names of plants often vary from region to region, which is why most plant encyclopedias refer to plants using their scientific names: binomials, or “Latin” names.

    Many plants have several common names, and many common names refer to several distinct plants. This list includes garden plants as well as weeds.

    This is not a complete list. Most of the common names here so far are regional names in use in North America.


    Contents: [hide]
    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Aconite – Aconitum
    Alder – Alnus
    Black Alder – Alnus glutinosa, Ilex verticillata
    Common Alder – Alnus glutinosa
    False Alder – Ilex verticillata
    Gray Alder – Alnus incana
    Speckled Alder – Alnus incana
    Striped Alder – Ilex verticillata
    White Alder – Alnus incana, Ilex verticillata
    Tall Ambrosia – Ambrosia trifida
    Amy Root – Apocynum cannabinum
    Apple – Malus
    Osage Apple – Maclura pomifera
    Apple of Sodom – Solanum carolinense
    Arfaj – Rhanterium epapposum
    Arizona Sycamore – Platanus wrighitii
    Arrowwood – Cornus florida
    Indian Arrowwood – Cornus florida
    Ash – Fraxinus spp.
    Black Ash – Acer negundo, Fraxinus nigra
    Blue Ash – Fraxinus pennsylvanica
    Cane Ash – Fraxinus americana
    Green Ash – Fraxinus pennsylvanica
    Maple Ash- Acer negundo
    Red Ash – Fraxinus pennsylvanica
    River Ash – Fraxinus pennsylvanica
    Swamp Ash – Fraxinus pennsylvanica
    White Ash – Fraxinus americana
    Water Ash- Acer negundo, Fraxinus pennsylvanica
    Azolla – Azolla
    Carolina Azolla – Azolla caroliniana
    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Banana – Musa paradisica
    Bay – Laurus spp. or Umbellularia spp.
    Bay Laurel – Laurus nobilis (culinary)
    California Bay – Umbellularia californica
    Bearberry – Ilex decidua
    Bear Corn – Veratrum viride
    Blue Bindweed – Solanum dulcamara
    Bird’s Nest – Daucus carota
    Bird’s Nest Plant – Daucus carota
    Birch – Betula spp.
    Black Birch – Betula lenta, Betula nigra
    Bolean Birch – Betula papyrifera
    Canoe Birch – Betula papyrifera
    Cherry Birch – Betula lenta
    European Weeping Birch – Betula pendula
    European White Birch – Betula pendula
    Gray Birch – Betula alleghaniensis
    Mahogany Birch – Betula lenta
    Paper Birch – Betula papyrifera
    Red Birch – Betula nigra
    River Birch – Betula nigra, Betula lenta
    Silver Birch – Betula papyrifera
    Spice Birch – Betula lenta
    Sweet Birch – Betula lenta
    Water Birch – Betula nigra
    Weeping Birch – Betula pendula
    White Birch – Betula papyrifera, Betula pendula
    Yellow Birch – Betula alleghaniensis
    Bittercress – Barbarea vulgaris, Cardamine bulbosa, Cardamine hirsuta
    Hairy Bittercress – Cardamine hirsuta
    Bittersweet – Solanum dulcamara
    Trailing Bittersweet – Solanum dulcamara
    Bitterweed – Any plant in the Ambrosia genus, specially Ambrosia artemisiifolia; Artemisia trifida; Helenium amarum
    Blackberry – Rubus spp., Rubus pensilvanicus, Rubus occidentalis
    Hispid Swamp Blackberry – Rubus hispidus
    Pennsylvania Blackberry – Rubus pensilvanicus
    Running Swamp Blackberry – Rubus hispidus
    Black Cap – Rubus occidentalis
    Black-eyed Susan – Rudbeckia hirta, Rudbeckia fulgida
    Blackhaw – Viburnum prunifolium
    Blackiehead – Rudbeckia hirta
    Black-weed – Ambrosia artemisiifolia
    Blue-of-the-Heavens – Allium caeruleum
    Bow-wood – Maclura pomifera
    Box – Buxus
    False Box – Cornus florida
    Boxelder – Acer negundo
    Boxwood – Buxus, Cornus florida
    False Boxwood – Cornus florida
    Sand Brier – Solanum carolinense
    Brittlebush – Encelia farinosa
    Broadleaf – Plantago major
    Brown Betty – Rudbeckia hirta
    Brown-eyed Susan – Rudbeckia hirta, Rudbeckia triloba
    Buckeye (California Buckeye) – (Aesculus californica)
    Buckeye – Aesculus spp.
    Buffalo Weed – Ambrosia trifida
    Butterfly Flower – Asclepias syriaca
    Butterfly Weed – Asclepias tuberosa

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Cabbage – Brassica oleracea
    Clumpfoot Cabbage – Symplocarpus foetidus
    Meadow Cabbage – Symplocarpus foetidus
    Skunk Cabbage – Symplocarpus foetidus
    Swamp Cabbage – Symplocarpus foetidus
    California Bay – Umbellularia californica
    California Buckeye – Aesculus californica
    California Sycamore – Platanus racemosa
    California Walnut – Juglans californica”
    Canada Root – Asclepias tuberosa
    Cancer Jalap – Phytolacca americana
    Carrot – Daucus carota
    Wild Carrot – Daucus carota
    Carrot Weed – Ambrosia artemisiifolia
    Cart Track Plant – Plantago major
    Catalina ironwood – Lyonothamnus floribundus ssp: floribundus
    Cherry – Prunus spp.
    Black Cherry – Prunus serotina
    Cabinet Cherry – Prunus serotina
    Rum Cherry – Prunus serotina
    Whiskey Cherry – Prunus serotina
    Wild Cherry – Prunus avium, Prunus serotina
    Wild Black Cherry – Prunus serotina
    Chigger Flower – Asclepias tuberosa
    Chrysanthemum – Dendranthema grandiflora, Chrysanthemum morifolium
    Coakum – Phytolacca americana
    Colic Weed – Corydalis flavula
    Collard – Symplocarpus foetidus
    Hare’s Colwort – Sonchus oleraceus
    Coneflower spp.
    Brilliant Coneflower – Rudbeckia fulgida
    Cutleaf Coneflower – Rudbeckia laciniata
    Eastern Coneflower – Rudbeckia fulgida
    Green-headed Coneflower – Rudbeckia laciniata
    Orange Coneflower – Rudbeckia fulgida
    Tall Coneflower – Rudbeckia laciniata
    Thin-leaved Coneflower – Rudbeckia triloba
    Three-leaved Coneflower – Rudbeckia triloba
    Blueberry Cornel – Cornus amomum
    Silky Cornel – Cornus amomum
    White Cornel – Cornus florida
    Cornelian Tree – Cornus florida
    Corydalis – Corydalis spp.
    Fern-leaf Corydalis – Corydalis chelidoniifolia
    Golden Corydalis – Corydalis aurea
    Pale Corydalis – Corydalis flavula, Corydalis sempervirens
    Pink Corydalis – Corydalis sempervirens
    Yellow Corydalis – Corydalis lutea, Corydalis flavula
    Creeping Yellowcress – Rorippa sylvestris
    Cress – (several genera)
    American Cress – Barbarea verna
    Bank Cress – Barbarea verna
    Belle Isle Cress – Barbarea verna
    Bermuda Cress – Barbarea verna
    Bulbous Cress – Cardamine bulbosa
    Lamb’s Cress – Cardamine hirsuta
    Land Cress – Barbarea verna, Cardamine hirsuta
    Scurvy Cress – Barbarea verna
    Spring Cress – Cardamine bulbosa
    Upland Cress – Barbarea verna
    Crowfoot – Cardamine concatenata
    Crow’s Nest – Daucus carota
    Crow’s Toes – Cardamine concatenata

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Brown Daisy – Rudbeckia hirta
    Gloriosa Daisy – Rudbeckia hirta
    Black-eyed Susan Daisy – Rudbeckia hirta
    Poorland Daisy – Rudbeckia hirta
    Yellow Daisy – Rudbeckia hirta
    Yellow Ox-eye Daisy – Rudbeckia hirta
    Deadnettle – Lamium
    Henbit Deadnettle – Lamium amplexicaule
    Devil’s Bite – Veratrum viride
    Devil’s Darning Needle – Clematis virginiana
    Devil’s Hair – Clematis virginiana
    Devil’s Plague – Daucus carota
    Bristly Dewberry – Rubus hispidus
    Swamp Dewberry – Rubus hispidus
    Dindle – Sonchus arvensis
    Dogwood – Cornus spp.
    American Dogwood – Cornus florida
    Florida Dogwood – Cornus florida
    Flowering Dogwood – Cornus florida
    Japanese Flowering Dogwood – Cornus kousa
    Kousa Dogwood – Cornus kousa
    drumstick – moringa oleifera
    Pacific Dogwood – Cornus nuttallii
    Silky Dogwood – Cornus amomum
    Swamp Dogwood- Cornus amomum
    Duck Retten – Veratrum viride
    Duscle – Solanum nigrum
    Dye-leaves – Ilex glabra

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Earth Gall – Veratrum viride
    English Bull’s Eye – Rudbeckia hirta
    Extinguisher moss – Encalypta
    Eytelia – Amphipappus

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Fair-maid-of-France – Achillea ptarmica
    Fairymoss Azolla caroliniana
    Fellenwort – Solanum dulcamara
    Felonwood – Solanum dulcamara
    Felonwort – Solanum dulcamara
    Boston Fern or Sword Fern – Nephrolepis exaltata
    Christmas Fern – Polystichum acrostichoides
    Coast Polypody – Polypodium scouleri
    Kimberly Queen Fern – Nephrolepis obliterata
    Korean Rock Fern – Polystichum tsus-simense
    Mosquito Fern – Azolla caroliniana
    Sword Ferns – Polystichum spp.
    Water Fern – Azolla caroliniana
    Western Sword Fern – Polystichum munitum
    Feverbush – Ilex verticillata
    Feverfew – Tanacetum parthenium
    European Flax – Linum usitatissimum
    New Zealand Flax – Phormium tenax and Phormium colensoi
    Fluxroot – Asclepias tuberosa
    Yellow Fumewort – Corydalis flavula

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Gallberry – Ilex glabra
    Garget – Phytolacca americana
    Golden Garlic – Allium moly
    Wild Garlic – Allium canadense
    Garlic Mustard – Alliaria petiolata
    Garlic Root – Alliaria petiolata
    Dame’s Gilliflower – Hesperis matronalis
    Night Scented Gilliflower – Hesperis matronalis
    Queen’s Gilliflower – Hesperis matronalis
    Rogue’s Gilliflower – Hesperis matronalis
    Winter Gilliflower – Hesperis matronalis
    Golden Buttons – Tanacetum vulgare
    Goldenglow – Rudbeckia laciniata
    Golden Jerusalem – Rudbeckia hirta
    Gordaldo – Achillea millefolium
    Goose Tongue – Achillea ptarmica
    Groundberry – Rubus hispidus
    Bristly Groundberry – Rubus hispidus
    Gutweed – Sonchus arvensis

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Haldi – Curcuma domestica

    Rock Harlequin – Corydalis sempervirens
    Yellow Harlequin – Corydalis flavula
    Hay Fever Weed – Ambrosia artemisiifolia, Artemesia trifida
    Healing Blade – Plantago major
    Hedge Plant – Maclura pomifera
    Hellebore – Helleborus
    American White Hellebore – Veratrum viride
    Big Hellebore – Veratrum viride
    Black Hellebore – Veratrum nigrum
    European White Hellebore – Veratrum album
    False Hellebore – Veratrum album, Veratrum viride
    Swamp Hellebore – Veratrum viride
    White Hellebore – Veratrum album, Veratrum viride
    Hemp Dogbane – Apocynum cannabinum
    Hen Plant – Plantago major
    Deadnettle – Lamium spp.
    Spotted Deadnettle – Lamium maculatum
    Henbit Deadnettlet – Lamium amplexicaule
    Herb Barbara – Barbarea vulgaris
    Hogweed – Ambrosia artemisiifolia
    Holly – Ilex spp.
    Deciduous Holly – Ilex decidua, Ilex verticillata
    Inkberry Holly – Ilex glabra
    Meadow Holly – Ilex decidua
    Swamp Holly – Ilex decidua
    Winterberry Holly – Ilex verticillata
    Horse Cane – Ambrosia trifida
    Hound’s Berry – Solanum nigrum
    Huckleberry – Vaccinium spp.
    Evergreen Huckleberry – Vaccinium ovatum
    Trailing Red Huckleberry – Vaccinium parvifolium
    Houseleek – Sempervivum tectorum

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Indian Hemp – various genera
    Indian Hemp – Apocynum cannabinum
    Indian Hemp – Cannabis indica
    Kenaf Indian Hemp – Hibiscus cannabinus
    White Indian Hemp – Asclepias incarnata
    Indian Paintbrush – Castilleja, Castilleja mutis, Asclepias tuberosa
    Indian Posy – Asclepias tuberosa
    Inkberry – Ilex glabra, Phytolacca americana
    Isle of Man Cabbage – Coincya monensis
    Itchweed – Veratrum viride

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Jack-by-the-Hedge – Alliaria petiolata
    Jack-in-the-Bush – Alliaria petiolata
    Juneberry – Amelanchier canadensis
    Juniper – Various species in the genus Juniperus

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Keek – Rorippa sylvestris
    Kinnikinnik – Cornus amomum
    Kousa – Cornus kousa
    Kudzu – Pueraria lobata

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Laceflower – Daucus carota
    Lamb’s Foot – Plantago major
    Leek – Allium
    Lily Leek – Allium moly
    Summer Lilac – Hesperis matronalis
    Love Vine – Clematis virginiana

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Maple – Acer
    Ash-leaved Maple – Acer negundo
    Black Maple – Acer nigrum
    Creek Maple – Acer saccharinum
    Cutleaf Maple – Acer negundo
    Maple Ash- Acer negundo
    Moose Maple – Acer pensylvanicum
    Red River Maple – Acer negundo
    River Maple – Acer saccharinum
    Silver Maple – Acer saccharinum
    Silverleaf Maple – Acer saccharinum
    Soft Maple – Acer saccharinum
    Striped Maple – Acer pensylvanicum
    Sugar Maple – Acer saccharum (main use), Acer barbatum, Acer leucoderme,
    Swamp Maple – Acer saccharinum
    Water Maple – Acer saccharinum
    White Maple – Acer saccharinum
    Mesquite – Prosopis
    Honey Mesquite – Prosopis glandulosa
    Screwbean Mesquite – Prosopis pubescens
    Milfoil – Achillea millefolium
    Milkweed – Asclepias, Sonchus oleraceus
    Blunt-leaved Milkweed – Asclepias amplexicaulis
    Common Milkweed – Asclepias syriaca
    Horsetail Milkweed – Asclepias verticillata
    Orange Milkweed – Asclepias tuberosa
    Swamp Milkweed – Asclepias incarnata
    Rose Milkweed – Asclepias incarnata
    Whorled Milkweed – Asclepias verticillata
    Yellow Milkweed – Asclepias tuberosa
    Milky Tassel – Sonchus oleraceus
    Moosewood – Acer pensylvanicum
    Morel – Solanum nigrum
    Petty Morel – Solanum nigrum
    Mosquito Plant – Azolla caroliniana
    Mother-of-the-Evening – Hesperis matronalis
    Mountain Mahogany – Betula lenta
    Mulberry – Morus
    Red Mulberry – Morus rubra
    White Mulberry – Morus alba
    Mango -Mangifera indica
    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Neem – Azardichata
    Nature’s Mistake – Cornus florida
    Bull Nettle – Solanum carolinense
    Carolina Horse Nettle – Solanum carolinense
    Horse Nettle – Solanum carolinense
    American Nightshade – Phytolacca americana, Solanum americanum
    Bitter Nightshade – Solanum dulcamara
    Black Nightshade – Solanum nigrum, Solanum americanum
    Climbing Nightshade – Solanum dulcamara
    Deadly Nightshade – Solanum nigrum
    Garden Nightshade – Solanum nigrum
    Trailing Nightshade – Solanum dulcamara
    Trailing Violet Nightshade – Solanum dulcamara
    Woody Nightshade – Solanum dulcamara
    Nosebleed – Achillea millefolium

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Oak – Quercus
    Algerian Oak Quercus canariensis
    Blue Oak – Quercus douglasii
    Bur Oak – Quercus macrocarpa
    California Black Oak Quercus kelloggii
    Canyon live oak Quercus. chrysolepis
    Champion Oak – Quercus rubra
    Coast Live Oak Quercus agrifolia
    Cork Oak Quercus suber
    Dyer’s Oak – Quercus velutina
    Eastern Black Oak – Quercus velutina’
    English Oak – Quercus robur
    Island Oak Quercus. tomentella
    Mirbeck’s Oak – Quercus canariensis
    Mossycup White Oak – Quercus macrocarpa
    Northern Red Oak – Quercus rubra
    Pedunculate Oak -Quercus robur
    Pin Oak – Quercus palustris
    Red Oak – Quercus rubra, Quercus coccinea
    Scarlet Oak – Quercus coccinea
    Scrub Oak – Quercus macrocarpa
    Sessile Oak – Quercus petraea
    Spanish Oak – Quercus coccinea, Quercus rubra
    Spotted Oak – Quercus velutina
    Swamp Oak – Quercus palustris, Quercus bicolor
    Swamp Spanish Oak – Quercus palustris
    Swamp White Oak – Quercus bicolor
    Valley Oak Quercus lobata
    White Oak – Quercus alba
    Yellowbark Oak – Quercus velutina
    Giant Onion – Allium giganteum
    Nodding Onion – Allium cernuum
    Tree Onion – Allium canadense
    Wild Onion – Allium canadense
    Osage Orange – Maclura pomifera
    Wild Orange – Maclura pomifera
    Orange-root – Asclepias tuberosa
    Osage – Maclura pomifera
    Red Osier – Cornus amomum
    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Pudina – Mentha indica

    Parsnip – Pastinaca sativa, Daucus carota
    Bastard Pellitory – Achillea ptarmica
    European Pellitory – Achillea ptarmica
    Wild Pellitory – Achillea ptarmica
    Penny Hedge – Alliaria petiolata
    Pepper Root – Cardamine concatenata
    Pigeon Berry – Phytolacca americana
    Pine – Pinus
    Plane (European sycamore) – Platanus acerifolia
    Broadleaf Plantain – Plantago major
    Common Plantain – Plantago major
    Dooryard Plantain – Plantago major
    Greater Plantain – Plantago major
    Roundleaf Plantain – Plantago major
    Wayside Plantain – Plantago major
    Pleurisy Root – Asclepias tuberosa
    Pocan Bush – Phytolacca americana
    Poisonberry – Solanum dulcamara
    Poisonflower – Solanum dulcamara
    Poke – Phytolacca americana
    Indian Poke – Veratrum viride
    Pokeroot – Phytolacca americana
    Pokeweed – Phytolacca americana
    Polkweed – Symplocarpus foetidus
    Polecat Weed – Symplocarpus foetidus
    Poor Annie – Veratrum viride
    Poor Man’s Mustard – Alliaria petiolata
    Poplar – Populus
    Possumhaw – Ilex decidua

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Queen Anne’s Lace – Daucus carota
    Quercitron – Quercus velutina

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Radical Weed – Solanum carolinense
    Ragweed – Ambrosia
    Common Ragweed – Ambrosia artemisiifolia
    Giant Ragweed – Ambrosia trifida
    Great Ragweed – Ambrosia trifida
    Rantipole – Daucus carota
    Raspberry – Rubus spp.
    Black Raspberry – Rubus occidentalis
    Purple Raspberry – Rubus occidentalis
    Redbrush – Cornus amomum
    Redbud – Cercis spp.”
    Eastern Redbud – Cercis canadensis
    Western Redbud – Cercis occidentalis”
    Judas-tree – Cercis siliquastrum
    Red Ink Plant – Phytolacca americana
    Redweed – Phytolacca americana
    Rheumatism Root – Apocynum cannabinum
    Ribwort – Plantago major
    Roadweed – Plantago major
    Rocket – (several genera)
    Dame’s Rocket – Hesperis matronalis
    Sweet Rocket – Hesperis matronalis
    Winter Rocket – Barbarea vulgaris
    Yellow Rocket – Barbarea vulgaris
    Rocketcress – Barbarea vulgaris
    Rose – Rosa
    Baby Rose – Rosa multiflora
    Dwarf Wild Rose – Rosa virginiana
    Low Rose – Rosa virginiana
    Multiflora Rose – Rosa multiflora
    Prairie Rose – Rosa virginiana
    Rambler Rose – Rosa multiflora
    Wild Rose – Rosa virginiana

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Sanguinary – Achillea millefolium
    Sauce-alone – Alliaria petiolata
    Scarlet Berry – Solanum dulcamara
    Scoke – Phytolacca americana
    Scotch Cap – Rubus occidentalis
    Scrambled Eggs – Corydalis aurea
    Scurvy Grass – Barbarea verna
    Serviceberry – Amelanchier
    Common Serviceberry – Amelanchier arborea
    Downy Serviceberry – Amelanchier arborea
    Shadblow Serviceberry – Amelanchier canadensis
    Shadblow – Amelanchier canadensis
    Shadbush – Amelanchier canadensis
    Silkweed – Asclepias syriaca
    Swamp Silkweed – Asclepias incarnata
    Virginia Silkweed – Asclepias syriaca
    Skunkweed – Symplocarpus foetidus
    Snakeberry – Solanum dulcamara
    Snowdrop – Galanthus
    Sorrel – Oxalis
    Redwood Sorrel – Oxalis oregana
    Corn Speedwell – Veronica arvensis
    Wall Speedwell – Veronica arvensis
    Spoolwood – Betula papyrifera
    Squaw Bush – Cornus amomum
    Stammerwort – Ambrosia artemisiifolia
    Star-of-Persia – Allium cristophii
    Stickweed – Ambrosia artemisiifolia
    Strawberry Tree – Arbutus unedo
    Strawberry Tree ‘Marina’ – Madrone – Arbutus ‘Marina’
    Orange Swallow-wort – Asclepias tuberosa
    Silky Swallow-wort – Asclepias syriaca
    Sneezeweed – Achillea ptarmica
    Sneezewort – Achillea ptarmica
    Sugarplum – Amelanchier canadensis
    Soldier’s Woundwort – Achillea millefolium
    Stag Bush – Viburnum prunifolium
    Orange Swallow-wort – Asclepias tuberosa
    Silky Swallow-wort – Asclepias syriaca
    Sweet Potato – Ipomoea batatas
    Sweet Potato Vine – Ipomoea batatas
    Swinies – Sonchus oleraceus
    Sycamore – Platnus sp.
    Sycamore (California) – Platanus racemosa
    Sycamore (Arizona) – Platanus wrighitii
    Sycamore (American) – Platanus occidentalis

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Common Tansy – Tanacetum vulgare
    White Tansy – Achillea ptarmica
    Wild Tansy – Ambrosia artemisiifolia
    Appalachian Tea – Ilex glabra
    Thimbleberry – Rubus occidentalis
    Thimbleweed – Rudbeckia laciniata
    Thousand-leaf – Achillea millefolium
    Thousand-seal – Achillea millefolium
    Tassel Weed – Ambrosia artemisiifolia
    Thistle – (Several genera)
    Annual Sow Thistle – Sonchus oleraceus
    California Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Canada Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Corn Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Corn Sow Thistle – Sonchus arvensis
    Creeping Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Cursed Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Field Sow Thistle – Sonchus arvensis
    Green Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Hard Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Hare’s Thistle – Sonchus oleraceus
    Milk Thistle – Sonchus oleraceus
    Nodding Thistle – Carduus nutans L.
    Perennial Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Prickly Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Sharp-fringed Sow Thistle – Sonchus asper
    Small-flowered Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Spiny Sow Thistle – Sonchus asper
    Spiny-leaved Sow Thistle – Sonchus asper
    Swine Thistle – Sonchus arvensis
    Tree Sow Thistle – Sonchus arvensis
    Way Thistle – Cirsium arvense
    Tickleweed – Veratrum viride
    Toothwort – Cardamine concatenata
    Cutleaf Toothwort – Cardamine concatenata
    Purple-flowered Toothwort – Cardamine concatenata
    Touch-me-not – Cardamine hirsuta
    Traveller’s Joy – Clematis virginiana
    Tread-softly – Solanum carolinense
    Tree Tobacco – Nicotiana glauca
    Trillium – Trillium spp.
    Western Trillium – Trillium ovatum
    Western Wake Robin – Trillium ovatum
    White Trillium – Trillium grandiflorum
    Tuber-root – Asclepias tuberosa
    Tulip – Tulipa
    Tulsi – Ocimum santalum

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Viburnum – Viburnum
    Blackhaw Viburnum – Viburnum prunifolium
    Leatherleaf Viburnum – Viburnum rhytidophyllum
    Violet – (several genera)
    Damask Violet – Hesperis matronalis
    Dame’s Violet – Hesperis matronalis
    Violet Bloom – Solanum dulcamara
    Virgin’s Bower – Clematis virginiana
    Virginia Virgin’s Bower – Clematis virginiana

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Walnut (California Walnut) – Juglans californica”
    Walnut – Juglans sp.
    Waybread – Plantago major
    Western Redbud – Cercis occidentalis
    White Man’s Foot – Plantago major
    White-root – Asclepias tuberosa
    Wild Cotton – Apocynum cannabinum, Asclepias syriaca
    Wild Hops – Clematis virginiana
    Willow – Salix
    Coyote Willow – Salix exigua
    Goodding Willow – Salix gooddingii
    Red Willow – Cornus amomum
    Rose Willow – Cornus amomum
    Windroot – Asclepias tuberosa
    Wineberry – Rubus phoenicolasius
    Winterberry – Ilex verticillata
    American Winterberry – Ilex verticillata
    Evergreen Winterberry – Ilex glabra
    Virginia Winterberry – Ilex verticillata
    Wintercress – Barbarea vulgaris
    Early Wintercress – Barbarea verna
    Woodbine – Clematis virginiana
    Roman Wormwood – Ambrosia artemisiifolia, Corydalis sempervirens
    Wound Rocket – Barbarea vulgaris

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Yarrow – Achillea
    Common Yarrow – Achillea millefolium
    Fernleaf Yarrow – Achillea filipendulina
    Sneezewort Yarrow – Achillea ptarmica
    Woolly Yarrow – Achillea tomentosa
    Yellow Fieldcress – Rorippa sylvestris
    Yellowwood – Cladrastis lutea, Maclura pomifera
    Yellow Coneflower – Echinacea paradoxa

    Top 0–9 A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
    Zinnia Zedoary

    sterculla lychnophora

    [edit]See also

    Gardening portal
    List of garden plants

    Historical Common Names of Great Plains Plants
    USDA PLANTS Database
    Categories: Plant common namesLists of plants

  199. @Bones

    “Are you saying the flu doesn’t evolve?”

    MICRO-EVOLUTION!!!!! How many times do I have to say it? And mutation IS NOT adding information.

    Interesting video by the way. Did you notice how he starts off talking about “new information”, and then continues to refer to it as “a mutation”? In his example of the black and green beetles, the change in colour is not an example of new information, but existing information CHANGING. They are both colours, it’s just that due to a mutation the colour changes. The black beetle hasn’t suddenly grown fingers and can now swing from trees. It’s a mutation in the colour genes. Then his example of duplicating existing DNA and then that duplication mutating still does not prove macro-evolution. All it proves is that a duplicate DNA strand has mutated to appear different to it’s parent DNA strand causing the proteins to appear different. Only if this mutation ADDS something to the organism can it be said that there is new information. He shows no evidence of this. Even his assertion that the nylon eaters had changed doesn’t account for the possibility of any latent abilities already within it to come to the surface when the food source changes. Once again, no definitive proof, just scientific sleight of hand.

  200. Are you saying the flu doesn’t evolve?

    Yes. Point variations, inversions, deletions, additions, substitutions, don’t constitute ,macro morphic change or a net decrease in entropy.

    Year in, year out, viruses are unquestionably viruses, they aren’t going anywhere, They are basically ‘dead’ stuff, left over from the fall, evidence of death = not a living thing in themselves.

    Take any single celled organism and try, in a laboratory to coax it into a siphonopnore, or any multi cellular organism.

    But these pale into trivial behind the question of abiogenesis. Just do it Bones, sell your caravan/ all your worldly possessions, and go follow allah, and preach the evolution you espouse; and donate all your money to a laboratory demonstration of one basic act of abiogenesis.

    Put your valuable fiat currency where your mouth is.

    Science, the real, thing is about reproducability. So do it. Here we are peers ready to judge and condemn and you claim it is science. Demonstrate one act of abiogenesis that isn’t an act of pure faith based speculation.

    Put up or shut up. [Only joking bones I expect you to rant on till the end, spewing bile, resisting the gospel, doubting scripture, perfecting the vituprrative – infact I’ll even defend your right to be as wrong as Darwin is]

    Ps. When did you retire Bones. What year?

    In any case how does this help Bones to spread Islam, build Mosques, destroy traditional jurisprudence, It does represent a divided house however. And for satan, a perfect opportunity.

    allah hu akbar, sing it Bones. sing it loud, the Koran says allah is the greatest of them all ……. and so on your page.

  201. Guys just look up your questions on the internet.

    Greg, the video I posted before @ 4:09 pm which seemed a good idea at the time was offensive. Please remove it.

    I’m taking a break from posting not because I’m hurt by you guys but because I’ve probably hurt you.

    Like an act of penance.

    I’ll still read and bite my tongue.

    But you guys and the site probably need a break from me.

    So have a Happy Easter and forgive me if I’ve hurt you.

    Live long and prosper.

  202. Gibbons defy their own evolution to jump as high as they can

    Most jumping animals – such as frogs and grasshoppers – have some powerful adaptations that basically make their legs into giant springs. But our ape cousins manage to leap insane distances through sheer force of will, without any helpful adaptations.

    Gibbons generally live high up in the rainforest canopy, which means they have to find ways to move between relatively distant trees. Since they’re too heavy to swing directly, they sometimes have to leap. And make no mistake, they are prodigious leapers, covering as much as ten meters from a standing start.

    Of course, such jumps are not without their dangers. Gibbons fall all the time, and any broken bones they sustain are just as likely to be fatal as anything else. But overall, the advantages of leaping in the canopy are too much to ignore. By staying high above the ground, the gibbons avoid running into dangerous predators like leopards and pythons, and the apes need to keep moving if they want to find the constant supply of high quality food that sustains their diet.

    So, without any specific mechanical adaptation, how do the gibbons do this? Liverpool University researchers have been able to capture high definition video of a pair of gibbons jumping, and from that they were able to determine how the gibbons’ centers of mass moved. The results were astounding – gibbons put more energy into their jumps than any other known animal, and five times as much as humans. In a standing vertical jump, a gibbon’s center of mass would clear 3.5 meters compared to just .6 for a human.

    The gibbons do this by using a crouch-and-lunge technique. They use their long arms, which are adapted for hanging from branches for extended periods, like long pendulums to propel themselves forward as they leap out of the crouch. This technique allows them to be fully stretched out before they even take off, which gives them an additional advantage over other primates in terms of “push-off distance.” This technique is also useful in that it minimizes the downward force – a very good thing when you’re jumping off of a fragile branch a hundred feet in the air.

    Co-author Dr. James Usherwood explains just how special the gibbon leaping technique really is:

    “By pushing against the branch for longer, large works can be performed accelerating the body without requiring large powers. Gibbons appear to hit a size ‘sweet-spot’, where they are big enough (helped by long arms and legs) to power jumps directly with muscle, but small enough to survive crashing about through trees. Much smaller, and they need to store energy in tendons like the smaller primates such as bush babies. Much bigger and the risk of injury becomes prohibitive – orangutans are exceedingly slow and safe.”
    Biology Letters via BBC News. Image by Suneko on Flickr.
    1-2 of 9 discussions


    You better jump! 8/11/11 4:04am

    Really? Jumping “through sheer force of will” — isn’t that like levitation or something? 8/10/11 2:24pm

    I think that they have just learned the knack of getting distracted at just the right time. 8/10/11 3:30pm

  203. reproducibility Why Karl Popper, philosopher, put evolution in with religion

    Nah, didn’t get it.

  204. Looks like(unrighteous) Bones has been broken.

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    For the LORD protects the bones of the righteous; not one of them is broken!

  205. Sorry Bones,
    But it is very easy for me and apparently Rounhouse, to thwart the apathetic nature of unskilled evolutionists.
    You have not made an honest effort to understand the underlying concepts of evolution before you attempt to provoke people with arguments about it.

  206. See you soon Bones. Taking a break from Signposts is something all of us have had to do at some point. Hope you enjoy your break. See you when you get back

  207. Wouldn’t count on that eyes. He’s on a mission like Muhammad to convince people someone knew more or did better things than Jesus. Why “we” have science, Jesus had to wing it with mere miracles.

    Meanwhile this page really should stick to allah’s great mission to rescue good gay muslims from right wing bigoted Islamophobes.

    To wit, we should all do our homework or miss the cricket match. The devil has always been in the fine print.'an#How_many_planets_in_the_solar_system_according_to_the_Quran.3F

    You former leech like clots should learn your true heritage on the way to the mosque building party.

  208. P.G.,

    Notice how a science book is updated about every five years or so.

    Bigfoot is real. At least that’s what veterinarian Melba S. Ketchum claims after a five-year study of more than 100 DNA samples that she believes comes from the elusive hairy beast.

    Under Ketchum’s direction at DNA Diagnostics in Nacogdoches, Texas, a team of researchers has concluded that the creature may be a human relative that somehow developed around 15,000 years ago as a result of a hybrid cross between Homo sapiens with an unknown primate.

    Ketchum’s research has yet to stand the scrutiny of independent researchers. While many people have claimed to have seen the creature, its existence has never been confirmed, despite a plethora of photos and footprints. The ongoing search is the subject of Animal Planet’s “Finding Bigfoot” television series.

    “Well, it came to me, I didn’t go after it, that’s for sure,” Ketchum said of the evidence of Bigfoot’s existence in an exclusive interview with The Huffington Post. “I did not believe in these creatures. But my lab did a lot of animal testing, and we did species identification. We didn’t have any hits on anything interesting until five years ago.”

    Ketchum’s professional work includes nearly 30 years in genetics research and forensics. After her team attempted DNA sequencing of hair samples from an alleged Bigfoot encounter, they found some unusual things in the hair. But there wasn’t enough DNA to conclusively verify what they were seeing.

    DNA Diagnostics received more samples to investigate — including hair, blood, saliva and urine, all reportedly from various Bigfoot sightings.

  209. EYES on March 16, 2013 at 6:35 pm
    Oh , but there is possibly Panthers in NSW/VICTORIA somewhere.
    I would believe that.

    There’s panthers in Penrith.

    There’s also a panther in my pants!


    A ranger later told him it appeared to be the print of a “huge wallaby”, but Mr Briggs said there was no way it was a wallaby.

    A National Parks spokesman said its officials had been shown the photos but couldn’t draw any conclusions.

    Mike Williams, of the Australian Big Cats website, said it was hard to tell anything from the pictures.

    “I’d love to tell you it’s a panther, but it could be a double wallaby print,” Mr Williams said.

    Mr Briggs said there were other signs of a big cat in the area.

    “Not so long ago a workman found a half-eaten wallaby in bush between Wyee and Morisset,” he said.

    He believed a big cat was near his yard around Christmas.

    “My son’s dog, a Staffy, sensed something and he came to the door looking absolutely petrified,” he said.

    “Staffies aren’t frightened of anything, but we couldn’t calm it down.”

    Chris Coffey, from Grose Vale in the Hawkesbury area, established a “big cat database” in 1998.

    Ms Coffey has recorded 560 big-cat sightings in NSW since then, including at Palmdale, Narara and Gosford on the Central Coast and at Berowra.

    Ms Coffey began the database because she had seen a black panther on her property five times.

    She said panthers were “leopards or jaguars”.

    “Years ago you could buy them on the black market for $5000,” she said.

    “Many people were told to put them down, but they didn’t have the heart to do it so they let them go.”


    * In 2002, a NSW government inquiry found it was ‘‘more likely than not’’ a colony of big cats was roaming Sydney’s outskirts and beyond

    See your ad here
    * American soldiers brought panthers and pumas (cougars) to Australia as mascots in World War II

    * American goldminers brought big cats to NSW in the 1850s

    * Black panther sightings in NSW have been happening for decades

    * In May 2001, a freedom-of-information request revealed the state government had been keeping a secret file on panther

  211. Meanwhile, back on the political thread, a brilliant article on freedom of expression and the rise of Islam as a censorial force in Europe:

    The racist and the unknown man

    My friend Lars Hedegaard is a dapper, courtly publisher and editor just turned 70. Like many Scandinavians, he speaks very evenly modulated English, but, insofar as I can tell, his Danish is no more excitable. A cultured, civilized fellow, he was for most of his life a man of the left, as are the majority of his compatriots, alas. But, as an historian and a chap who takes the long view, he concluded that Islam posed a profound challenge to Scandinavian liberalism. And so at a stroke he was transformed into a “right-winger.”

    The other day in Copenhagen, he answered his doorbell and found a man in his early twenties who appeared to be “a typical Muslim immigrant” pointing a gun at him. He fired from a yard away, and, amazingly, missed. The bullet whistled past Lars’s ear, and the septuagenarian scholar then slugged his assailant. The man fired again, but the gun jammed, and, after some further tussling, the would-be assassin escaped. He has yet to be found.

    The attempted murder of an “Islamophobe” is part of the scene in today’s Europe. Among those targeted have been such obvious “right-wing extremists” as secular feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali, gay hedonist Pim Fortuyn, and coke-snorting anti-monarchist Theo van Gogh. While I was in Copenhagen paying a visit to Lars’s Danish Free Press Society, a young Chechen jihadist opposed to all this outrageous Islamophobia prematurely detonated while assembling his bomb in his hotel room, and we all had a good laugh. But sometimes, as on Lars’s doorstep, the jihad wannabe is less incompetent and gets a little closer.

    How does one report an assassination attempt on a writer for expressing his opinion? Most North American media didn’t report it at all. The BBC announced, “Gunman Targets Islam Critic Hedegaard” — which is true, although one couldn’t but notice that the Beeb and the Euro-press seemed far more interested in qualifying the victim’s identity (“Islam critic”) than in fleshing out the perp’s. And then there were the Swedes. Across the water from Lars’s home town, most prominent outlets picked up the story from the national news agency, TT, the local equivalent of the Associated Press. Here’s how they began:

    Lars Hedegaard, once convicted for racism, has been subject to an assassination attempt. An unknown man reportedly shot at Hedegaard outside his Copenhagen home.

    The author Hedegaard is one of the few Danes who is a certified racist, as he some years ago was fined by a High Court for having stated in a blog interview that Muslim fathers rape their children. He was later acquitted by the Supreme Court.

    That last sentence negates the ones above. There is no conviction for “racism”: Both it and the fine were quashed, reversed, overturned, kicked into the garbage can by the supreme court. The prosecution was outrageous, and some sense of what Denmark’s most eminent jurists made of it can be deduced from their decision to revoke his conviction 7–0. What sort of reporter writes that “the author Hedegaard is one of the few Danes who is a certified racist” (“papper på att han var rasist”)? Even in an ever more absurdly over-credentialed world, the Danish state is not yet handing out certificates for racism. Whatever a “certified racist” is, Lars remains, as far as the Danish legal system is concerned, fully uncertified.

    I have read the “papper på att han var rasist” line in a couple of dozen Swedish media outlets now without being able to find a name appended to the piece: It’s just an un-bylined wire story that appeared everywhere. But I wonder about the furtive anonymous man who wrote it, and the agency managers who sent it out to their clients, and the editors who read it through and printed it unchanged. I would wager that all of them are considerably younger than Lars, and so marinated in the state ideology that they can barely comprehend that free societies should not have a state ideology. And so what matters to them about this story is not that in liberal, progressive Scandinavia writers are threatened with death but that writers should not be holding these opinions in the first place.

    If this is how it goes when Sweden’s Muslim population is 5 percent, what will it be like when it’s 10 or 15? “You can’t live your life that way,” Lars told Douglas Murray in The Spectator. “If every time you sit down to your computer to write something you have this idea in the back of your head, ‘I may be killed if I write this,’ then of course you won’t be as good as you could be. You’ve got to distance yourself from fear if you want to be a true writer.”

    Last year at the European Parliament, I had the honor of presenting Lars with a “Defender of Freedom” award, and noted that journalists congratulate themselves on their “courage” endlessly, far more often than soldiers or firemen do. But on the rare occasions they’re actually called upon to show any, they shrink and shrivel: “All your liberal friends who went to the PEN dinners and bored the pants off you with that bit of apocryphal Voltaire — ‘I disapprove of what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it’ — all fall utterly silent. C’mon, nobody’s asking you to defend anyone to the death. A mildly principled tweet would do. A tepidly supportive fax.”

    But no. Too much to ask.

    As I said, Lars is 70. But I would rather have him fighting my corner than the young, self-neutered eunuch-men of a cowed media, watching the lights go out on free speech and slipping easily and painlessly into the accomplices of thuggery.

  212. { Among those targeted have been such obvious “right-wing extremists” as secular feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali, gay hedonist Pim Fortuyn, and coke-snorting anti-monarchist Theo van Gogh. }

    Not a good idea.

  213. { The attempted murder of an “Islamophobe” is part of the scene in today’s Europe. }

    Still not a good idea.

  214. thanks Steve,
    in the absence of “blood of atonement”
    Muslims do good works, five pillars of Islam etc. Doing Jihad against infidels is explicit in the Koran.

    What liberal left journos do is a sort of “self flagellation” / self effacement in purging their world. Everything noble is gone. Holiness can’t exist. Sacred gone with it. Non judgmental means, non discerning – totally.

    White south african gun running pedophiles can still be “bad” and everything WASP, but everyone else is intrinsically good. Blacks, can’t be racist, because, well they’re black and how could they be?

    Teenage single mother pregnancy just must be good compared with the totalitarianism of right wing bigots wanting to restrict lifestyle choices or the moral shame of someone restricting choice by advocating celibacy for a few years till they have enough money to pay their own mobile phone bills.

    Tolerance is elevated to an the ultimate virtue. But as, Karl Popper, pointed out unlimited tolerance leads to the eradication of tolerance.

    Churchill thought science would save the West from the old Roman Empire;s fate. He was wrong. Gaia, global non warming, forests that burn to the ground because of fuel load build up, the inability to make man made lakes called, damn it I just can say it in public, lest the river gods be offended, or a river “die” from unbelief in its life force. All the while “mutation” is good, yet schizophrenically everything known to man to cause it is bad. Plants grow faster in higher partial pressure of CO2, stomatal densities of fossilized plants are lower, Science hasn’t saved the west, Growth in China,India, and much of Africa is consistently out performing here.

    The conclusion. Jesus is unique. He is right. He left us his words to build our world on. The West did that and now is ditching Him as if it never happened, ergo, dying.

    Australia looks finished. allah hu akbar, no-one does it like allah,

  215. Bones, you’ve already been away too long. That’s enough penance! This place needs you.

    And for what it’s worth, asking for the vid to be deleted made me curious so I watched it. Respect for asking it to be deleted as it clearly would be offensive to many people. But, it was actually cleverly done and made some good points for people to consider.
    Pity the language and some parts weren’t toned down, as it was a clever way of making a point (or points).

    Okay, I’ll even stand to bat for you in one point…..

    @Steve, I can understand people calling a man who states publicly that Muslim fathers rape their children a “certified racist”. Sounds way over the top to me.

    Okay, back to me…

    Yeah, it’s a huge problem if journalists have to be worried about being assassinated. Esp when they can ridicule Christianity, Christians and Jesus at will.

    And Bones, don’t say any Hail Mary’s. Just say the Lord’s Prayer three times for your penance.

    Miss you already!

  216. Ponder this you argumentative intelligences:If God is everything, and everything springs from Him, then,if everything then is this scenario, then it follows that, in some way at least, as we and everything that is, was, or will ever be made, must be part of the MIND of God.It therefore should follow, that He gave Darwin, Galileo, Hitler,Stalin, Julia Gillard, you, me and each one of us, our thoughts.Now once they come to us, it is of course up to us to use them, either for good or evil.However, it does, I feel create a dilemma for most Christians, probably for Muslims too, who insist there can be no evil or wrong in God, What have you to say on this, a newer forum topic?

  217. Dallas, that is illogical thinking, unless you are a calvinist or reformed theologist, but, then again, it’s still unreasonable if you are.

    Reformed folk, of course, do claim tat God is the great puppet master thinking our thoughts for us and making us do the things we do, devoid of a free will.

    However, they tend to miss the influence of the devil, who is also the tempter, who, whilst he can’t read our thoughts, can certainly influence them. God gives us a choice in life, to obey him or disobey him. This speaks of the ability to think independently of God’s will.

    Having the mind of Christ is the result of the regenerative process through faith in Him, not a result of natural birth. The natural man understands nothing of the Spirit, does not know the thoughts of God.

    You can work it out from there…

  218. we could dial 1800 ACME Rent a heathen. Nah, its Sunday so the Age will probably be running stories on why Easter can be ditched because no-one at the Age believes in it anymore.’

    An exclusive Age news-poll of well informed Leftist Journos says none of them support Easter but still believe they should receive Federal Government backed penalty rates for having to work on it.

    But they are prepared to run risque edgy social commentary pieces on Crucifix in Urine art works this coming fortnight to show what independent thinkers they are. Remember WAPS need to be censored!

  219. Its never finished……

    I only read that Age article because last Sunday I was at the blood bank giving a pint – a free copy on the tea room table afforded the opportunity to see what Labor party talking points were issued that previous last week.
    I’d never ever financially support a Fairfax rag/ tabloid format or otherwise. The sooner Fairfax journos are on the official government unemployment teat the better. Of course as the share price reaches carve up asset sales figures many will already be eager to head for academic junket money teaching quality journalism to all tomorrow’s Che Guevara wannabes. The rest will gravitate to ABC group think or become staffers in Labor real, before losing that job after the next election.

    The sad part is the pseudo conservative party won’t cut off the money when they get the chance.

    Australia doesn’t have a conservative party. And the evidence on this page suggests they never will.

    As for Australian Christians. I suspect the real thing believers here are somewhere around the figure of Coptic Christians in Egypt – an increasingly threatened group.

    in short.
    Darwin won. The universities are full of him.
    Secularists won. The universities and all levels of government, law schools etc, take it as a priori. Their vision of fixed and fixated. No level of self realization is possible.
    Multi cultists won.
    Riots, a new divided Australia constitution preamble, defaced graves, protests outside Jewish chocolate shops, actual terrorist attacks, – the multi cultists won.

    Why Greg and Bones are apoplectic over one little man with a tiny congregation on the literal fringe of Melbourne is bizarre.

    Greg, Bones have literally every other microphone in the country. And allah hu akbar are buying all the rest with donations from Saudi Arabia etc.

    [Quid pro quo = I’d allow the building permit for a new mosque in Australia based statistically on every new Christian Church built in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Afghanistan]

    [I’d also allow/ insist on a Conservative Christian on every media forum that invites a “show” liberal Muslim onto the panel

    [I’d sell the ABC lock stock and barrel

    [I’d teach actual history in universities and high schools

    [There’d be an immediate genuine review of all statistics practices and empirical data related to climate forecasting

    [Finally, every school child would be given a Dr Dickson type introduction to the evidence for the Historical Jesus.

    ie. The gospel is all that can ever work, all that ever worked, all that will work again

    cheers Saints

  220. an essential difference is Christians will never, in significant numbers vote for a Christian party. They’ve been taught that it can’t be done.
    The mantra of separation of church and state is rooted deep in their brains – and mantra/ modern myth, it most certainly is.

    Muslims will vote for a Muslim party however.

    When Christians wake up their homes won’t be theirs; their heritage gone, their history and culture entirely trashed. Just pick an Age newspaper for details.

    hang on, we’re nearly there.

  221. Penance served!

    The Virgin told me show spoke with her Boy and its A Ok.

    I’ve vowed to stop offending people.

    (Except PhillipGeorge who is a lying retard)

  222. “Notice how a science book is updated about every five years or so.”

    Wtf does that mean?

    Ooooh you can’t trust science. It changes all the time.

    Well enjoy your medication of leeches. Because obviously science isn’t supposed to change.

    It does change. And changes are coming even quicker now with instant communication. The God of the gaps is getting smaller and smaller.

    Oh yeah religion doesn’t change, God’s Word stays the same yada yada yada.

    (The anti-Copernican and geocentric followers agree. Whatever happened to the Christian slave owners btw?)

  223. Btw we have a gene to have a tail and guess what.

    Sometimes babies are born with tails.

    Why did God give us a gee for having a tail?

  224. Christian slave owners largely learnt the trade from Muslim slave owners, but were eventually overthrown by Christians with healed consciences. So much for liberal “historical revisionism” from a quality academic.


  225. Ecclesiastes 5:4-6

    4 When you make a vow to God, do not be late in paying it; for He takes no delight in fools. Pay what you vow! 5 It is better that you should not vow than that you should vow and not pay. 6 Do not let your [a]speech cause [b]you to sin and do not say in the presence of the messenger of God that it was a mistake. Why should God be angry on account of your voice and destroy the work of your hands?

  226. Bones, what year did you retire was a direct question without any prejudicial bias?
    And care to elaborate what subject matter you taught or teach?

  227. Thanks EYES – but he doesn’t “get it”

    BTW, slavery was officially legal in Saudi Arabia till the 1970;s – but you’ve never lived there.
    Arguably Philipinos, Turks, Egyptians on Saudi equivalents of 457 visas might still be considered economic slaves,

    The first things you lose when you arrive in Saudi Arabia is your passport. They hold it for you. It must be a “cultural” practice based on a written way of thinking

  228. { Oh yeah religion doesn’t change, God’s Word stays the same yada yada yada. }

    Ecclesiastes 1,
    15 What is crooked cannot be straightened;
    what is lacking cannot be counted.

    Keep trying to figure out things and you will find that you are still lacking.Good luck with trying to count to infinity.

    Yeah, your right , God’s word does stay the same.

  229. Btw whales and dolphins have genes for legs which is usually deactivated.

    However dolphins and whales have been found with legs complete with femur and tibia, chickens with teeth, extra nipples and tails in humans.

    These are called atavisms.

    All genetically inherited through common descent.

  230. Carl Wieland of Creation Ministries International

    “I knew, of course, that some modern whales have a pair of bones embedded in their tissues, each of which strengthens the pelvic wall and acts as an organ anchor. … Whales could be born with a little extra lump of bone which evolutionists therefore insisted was a throwback corresponding to a second limb bone.

    However, the spectacle of a whale being hauled out of the ocean with an actual leg hanging down from its side was a totally different issue. I don’t remember my exact response, but I indicated that, if true, this would be a serious challenge to explain on the basis of a creation model.” (Wieland 1998)

  231. Another lie.

    Christian slave owners largely learnt the trade from Muslim slave owners, but were eventually overthrown by Christians with healed consciences.

    Ephesians 6:9

    “9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.”

    The Bible shows there were Christian slave owners or who the hell was Paul writing to.

    You are a liar.

  232. 24And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1)

    Like the dust or clay, animals come from the land.
    all come from dust, and to dust all return.(Ecclesiastes 3:20)

  233. Some countries you are allowed to have slaves by law and that’s fine as long as one treats them right and pays them well ergo not being a rough nut bully. bondservant, captive, chattel, drudge, help, laborer, menial, peon, retainer, serf, servant, skivvy, subservient, thrall, toiler, vassal, victim, worker, workhorse
    Antonyms: master

    Skivvy is cool i’m going to use that!

  234. Do you think the African Eye worm is good?

    This contagious and infectious nematode lives in the host’s (mainly human) eye.

  235. { Do you think the African Eye worm is good? }

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, no.
    I think that you have an ear worm, Bones.
    I think you have ear worms.

  236. “you’ve never lived there.”

    Nope. Haven’t lived in Saudi Arabia.

    My father in law has and is wanted over there after he busted out of a Saudi prison. All because he took a wrong turn one night and ended up at some secret army base.

    Was held for weeks and the Australian government would do sfa to help him out as the Saudis were our friends.

    Of course there is a difference between the Wahabists, Sunnis and Shiites which of course most Christians don’t understand.

    Like saying that Catholics, Pentecostals, Evangelicals and liberal Christians are all the same.

    And I don’t want Australia to become a Christian variant of Saudi Arabia either.

  237. { Tequila anyone? }
    Well, that explains everything.
    Full stop; period; end of story.
    Glad we got to the bottom of this bottle!

  238. “Some countries you are allowed to have slaves by law and that’s fine…”


    Can you give an example?

    Section 270.1 of the Australian Criminal Code


    “the condition of a person over whom any or all of the powers attaching to the right of ownership are exercised, including where such a condition results from a debt or contract made by the person.”

    No Christian today would send a slave back to their master like Paul did (Philemon 10-16) or say it was ok if you treated slaves right.

    Paul would probably be arrested.

    But yeah PhillipGeorge wants us to live by Biblical sharia law.

  239. There’s a terrible “feel” about this place at the moment. Anyone agree or feel the same? There have been many time when things have gotten heated here, but this feels different. I don’t know what it is, but I get a real apprehension when I have come here over the last few days. I’m not saying it has anything to do with the current lot of new posters here. It’s great to have some new opinions. It’s just that it feels yuck here. Anyway, I want to play my part in getting rid of the yuckiness, so I won’t engage in any arguments any more. Of course, I will keep posting, but no more negativity from my end. Anyone want to join me?

  240. So Steve, my friend, I see you are of the scool of non thinking Christians, who tend to believe without thinkingof whether your belief is really sound.Yes, in the past I would have accepted this kind of answer that you just presented, rather4 simplistically to us in your comment.That was before I came across blindly parrotting Christians that tend to start denying what is written in scripture which doesn’t back up their ill conceived notions of God.I refer to the passage of where it says GOD sent an evil spirit to torment Saul, Most Christians,in order to back up their notion that God cannot and does not do evil in any shape or form, say that it was the DEVIL doing that.However the statement says GOD sent the evil spirit and David had to minister to Saul with his harp.What have you to say about this thorny little passage Steve and others on this forum? At least have a rest from Muslim and Gay bashing, and lets explore that the fact that God originally of nothing, created everything out of nothing, so therefore we, created of that nothing, must therefore be part of everything which is part5 of God.The postulation i8s, though most will disagree, is that God created both Good and Evil, going furthe3r, one might also say God is dualistic of nature being of both GOOD and Bad.The fact that you say we are given free will, in this discussion, shall be regarded as a re3d herring and cannot be used in any of the forum’s explanations.Please start thinking from out of Fundamentalist and Christian Traditionalist points of view on this , but from an out of the box point of discussion!!

  241. Bones,
    I left plenty of synonyms for the word ‘slave’,
    Freedom of expression … can be a double-edged sword

  242. …..a rest from Muslim and Gay bashing…..

    Dallas surely you are North American? Surely Americans invented using surnames as Christian names?

    Dallas, I’m only on this page because it is a punitive ad hominem attack on a small congregation Christian Pastor who has grown up along side of Muslims and knows Islam.
    He went to court defending basic Christianity from neo liberal attack and eventually won after something in the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars spent in non recoverable legal fees.

    Censorship is alive and well in Australia. The house is truly divided and will not stand.

    We, in the royal sense, are not bashing Muslims or Gays. This is about judging the Koran for what it is and judging sin for what it is.

    The concept of a largely unenforced legal code was lost on everyone here, perhaps, but ask how many Jews keep the Torah without a Temple, ark of the covenant, or Aaronic priesthood there in vestments. ie. unenforced legal code.

    and there you go with an ad hominem piece ” un thinking” “simplistic” “blindly parroting”?

    Thanks Dallas.

    I spent two years intermittently rapping with a White Western convert to Islam – a Cat Stevens type.

    One of the eventual hall marks of dialogue was refusal to answer direct questions, even when they didn’t infringe on the right to anonymity. Obfuscation, prevarication, filibuster all became signs to behold. Taqiyya is alive and well, and no, its not about bashing.

  243. Bones, the Romans ran their economy largely on slavery. Whether or not Arab peninsula slavery predates Roman slavery is moot. Point you could perhaps have picked up on is that Muhammad made little or no effort to proscribe slavery and Jesus didn’t try to Reform Caesar’s practices from outside of Rome.

    You have a very inclusive definition of Liar – perhaps we should all adopt your use of it. But then the irony of going to Rome and acting like Romans will be utterly lost on you?

    So I ask again for you to deny me again, in Jesus Name, what do or did you teach?

  244. RE slavery, Joseph of coat of many colors fame, Circa 12-1500 BC was a slave remember? so Muslims were not responsible for Christians learning from them.As an aside, in many Muslim encounters Jews, Christians and some other minorities have been well treated and indeed allowed greater privileges than Muslims in their own countries.Check out Iran for example.Too, at the time of the crusade.Too, the twaddle about Muslims being backward, from Churchill? is,bs, Suliman,I think it was gave safe passage to besieged Christians.King Richard, I believe failed to return the favourWestern Scientists copied and borrowed heavily from the Muslims, re many English words, our 0 system, came from them, too, navigational and many other methods we use today.Muslims got the 0 principle from Sanskrit,I believe in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan as it was one big area at the time.So, the3 notion of Muslims not being clever and organized is bunkum, whether Winston Churchill said so or not!!

  245. { The concept of a largely unenforced legal code was lost on everyone here, perhaps, but ask how many Jews keep the Torah without a Temple, ark of the covenant, or Aaronic priesthood there in vestments. ie. unenforced legal code. }

    Good work Shadowfax!

    10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.(Galatians 3)

    No temple, cool, (can’t rely on the law then, hey) i’ll use that.

  246. “I spent two years intermittently rapping with a White Western convert to Islam – a Cat Stevens type.”

    I knew a Christian once who lied to justify his own bigoty and hatred of others therefore all Christians lie, are bigotted and full of hate.

    You know it makes sense.

  247. “There’s a terrible “feel” about this place at the moment.”

    Bigotry tends to do that. The ugly side of Christianity is being revealed. The same spirit that led to the Crusades and Bosnia.

  248. Bones,
    God made a new temple.

    New International Version (©2011)
    “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands.

    New International Version (©2011)
    What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.(2 Cor.)

  249. Come on Bones. Throw away your pet subjects for a second and seriously have a think about this. There is something not right here.

  250. Unenforced legal codes


    Putting salt on a railroad track may be punishable by death.

    It is illegal to wear a fake moustache that causes laughter in church.

    It is illegal to sell peanuts in Lee County after sundown on Wednesday.

    It is legal to drive the wrong way down a one-way street if you have a lantern attached to the front of your automobile.

    It is considered an offense to open an umbrella on a street, for fear of spooking horses.

    A person may not cross state lines with a duck atop his head.

    It is illegal to sleep naked.

    Citizens may not enter Wisconsin with a chicken on their head.

    Oral sex is prohibited.

    It is unlawful to walk one’s cow down Main Street after 1:00 PM on Sunday.

    No person shall sound the horn on a vehicle at any place where cold drinks or sandwiches are served after 9:00 P.M.

    You may not drive a black car on Sundays.

    It is illegal for a chicken to cross the road.

    If a police officer approaches a vehicle and suspects that the occupants are engaging in sex, he must either honk, or flash his lights and wait for three minutes before approaching the car.

    The value of Pi is 4, and not 3.1415.

    A man over the age of 18 may be arrested for statutory rape if the passenger in his car is not wearing her socks and shoes, and is under the age of 17.

    You may not tie an alligator to a fire hydrant.

    It is illegal for a woman to drive a car unless her husband is waving a flag in front of it.

    Tissues are not to be found in the back of one’s car.

    Molesting an automobile is illegal!!!!!

    Any motorist driving along a country road at night must stop every mile and send up a rocket signal, wait 10 minutes for the road to be cleared of livestock, and continue.

    Any motorist who sights a team of horses coming toward him must pull well off the road, cover his car with a blanket or canvas that blends with the countryside, and let the horses pass. If the horses appear skittish, the motorist must take his car apart, piece by piece, and hide it under the nearest bushes.

    It is illegal to drive without windshield wipers. You don’t need a windshield, but you must have the wipers.

    No one may have sex in the back of an ambulance if it is responding to an emergency call.

    You may not ride an ugly horse.

  251. Philip,I,m from and in,MELBUUUUUURRRNe Australia,I actually disagree with those that say Danny is a complete nutter,I actually agree with him in some of what he says.The last Labor Victorian Government was legislating nonsensical provisions which could mean you cannot, in your own nplace of worship, say what you may really think, about gays, Muslims, Hindus in fact, anybody who doesn’t like what you say about them.Nahallia has, and does have the guts and money capacity to fight draconian legislation such as The Equal Opportunity Bills coming into parliament, both States and Federally.My problem with Danny and others of his ilk, is their being rather extreme, which tends to make me step back from them.I have spoken to laborites at the polling booths too, finding some of the same in their ranks.You don’t realise, that merely casting y.Even though I disagree with extremists it is their right to express their views, either behind closed doors or openlyour one little vote may be unleashing some of these extremists to start bringing on legislation never mentioned.They peddle their own little likes and dislikes into law.They are propelled by mad ideology which stems from pet medical health and other lobby groups, hellbent, in the name of what’s good for us, to somehow curtail our freedoms, getting thinner by the minute.My apologies for some of this being out of context, but my cursor keeps wandering, so please put it together for yourselves,Dallas

  252. Bones,
    If you prance up(with a horse drawn vehicle) to a motel in Australia(legally), did you know that the owners of the motel must provide your horses with accommodation?
    Pretty old laws hey!

  253. Roundhouse Gnosticism? Why, and why not elaborate, Prove or disprove what I am presenting, scientifically, not just spiritually, or quoting from the Bible, always very open to one’s own interpretations I have noticed!!By the way, I said gay and Muslim bashing because that’s what it has become.The original discussion began healthfully but degenerated into personalities slinging mud at each other.,Playing on the man, instead of going after the ball, so to speak!!Dallas

  254. apologies Dallas, I haven’t met many Australian dallases is all. I went fishing on that point because the Americans are force fed a particular and peculiar vision of separation of Church and state that largely spun off from the persecution or quakers and baptists and largely came to them via, literally, the Philadelphia experiment in Jurisprudence. Yes, Philadelphia lawyers are for real. Americans to this day have a rather “colored” nuance of liberty mixed with mythology. I say this because Pilgrim fathers and early constitution drafters could not possibly have ascribed to them the thinking the current Supreme Court superimposes on history.

    The point on slavery stands. Islamic slavery predated and post dated most European based slavery of the last 1500 years.

    And while Arab Peninsula slavery may not predate Egyptian slavery whose was the camel train that Joseph’s brothers sold him to? Arab or Egyptian.

    Further point, I understand that some Chinese brothers in Christ have sold themselves into slavery to spread the gospel abroad. Now that seems very committed. People who willingly become slaves for the gospel might even be commended for that. Paul’s writing can’t be interpreted any other way.

    What if Philemon ran a class of “slaves” much more the likes of indentured servants, contract laborers. Onesimus’ service to the early church might have been imperative. A runaway from any army at any time is not a good look? I know this is conjecture, but some topics can and will not be fully explained this side of heaven. That’s a fact. Much like Fitch’s paradox and Godel’s theorem – we live with absolute epistemological and defining constraints. One lives with them.

  255. Bones.
    On a lighter note,
    I want an ademantian graft so as to be like Wolverine!

    If you’re using half your concentration to look normal, then you’re only half paying attention to whatever else you’re doing.
    Just pointing out something that could save your life.
    You want society to accept you, but you can’t even accept yourself.
    You know, one day the government is going to realize that how lucky they were to have Professor X on their side.
    he he he he he he he he he!!!!!

  256. Some Sunni Muslims themselves talk about their by-gone golden age. And the Indians probably invented Zero. Base ten numbering was and is to this day a mistake. We would be better off with base twelve. Inches and cubits to this day are better expressions of the golden mean than French decimals. Even thirty years after the event people can mentally envision 5 foot 7 inches better than they can 170 cm.

    Islam’s golden age is just as mythical as an entirely dark ages of Europe however.

    As for the Crusades and Bosnia. I’ve never seen a unilateral war – what does it look like?

    The British developed a Navy because they were sick and tired of Moorish slave traders. It is an ongoing war.

    Like European’s came to Australia only to find happy Aborigines singing Kumbaya? I visited the Aboriginal display at Melbourne Museum and one of the curators insisted that most Aboriginal weapons were not for hunting. They practiced the sort of war however where everyone sees the colour of an opponents eyes. War hasn’t been the same since.

    And who were the people that the nearly first Aborigines displaced? You’ve heard it said that if Maoris had discovered Australia before Europeans there wouldn’t be a reconciliation process. I say this because revisionism has ruined common sense as once it was.

    How many times can I be welcomed to a place I was born into by people who are younger than I am? How long does a welcome last before it has magically worn away to nothing and has to be given again. Dallas, the country is stuffed. allah hu akbar. And there is no conservative party in Australia – doesn’t exist.

  257. Hey, PhillipGeorge(c)2013,,,are you ‘Ian Williams’?
    WITHOUT saying ,”i don’t know what you are talking about”

  258. God of the gaps is getting smaller?

    The frontiers of ignorance are being expanded daily!

    Epigenetics is one newer frontier.

    The point about unexpressed latent speciational potential is how did that information get there? If you want a tail turn it on if you can? If a latent potential is there it is there intact from somewhere? Net entropy, zero change.

    Amoeba to Men also discounts the possibility that monkey devolved from men having decided teleologically that it was the less preferable existence. [rhetorical question about anthropocentrism]

    From vitamin C synthesis to hearing to eyesight to skin thickness, humans look poorly adapted to any environment, including blogs where some people are inclined to independent thought.

  259. “The last Labor Victorian Government was legislating nonsensical provisions which could mean you cannot, in your own nplace of worship, say what you may really think, about gays, Muslims, Hindus in fact, anybody who doesn’t like what you say about them.”

    John 8:44

    Jesus to the Jews

    “You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

    Good luck with that Jesus. You should have said that to Muslims.

    I’ve heard Christians say they should line gays up and shoot em.

    I’m confused. Should we outlaw hate speech or not?

    Or only Muslim hate speech?

    It’s ok to offend Muslims but not Jews?

    The hate speech laws in Australia give redress to someone who is the victim of discrimination, vilification, or injury on grounds that differ from one jurisdiction to another. All Australian jurisdictions give redress when a person is victimised on account of race. Some jurisdictions give redress when a person is victimised on account of colour, ethnic origin, religion, disability, or sexual orientation.

  260. “The frontiers of ignorance are being expanded daily!”

    Only within fundamentalist Christianity. Those who moan and groan that science doesn’t line up with their preconceived view of the world.

    You can take solace with the Hindus and Muslims. They feel the same.

  261. “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

    “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

    42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

    Double edged sword Bones, Double edged Sword!

  262. Victim is a growth industry common law juries could deal with.
    Even still Juries can nullify

    but do one in hundred thousand Australians know it exists?

    You’re looking more and more allah like on a daily basis Bones. What do you teach?

  263. Eyes,

    Not Ian Williams, my name is real.

    Was he cogent?

    I’d be prepared to volunteer to police the one about sleeping naked – starting with basically medically trained castle attendants.

    Bones’ best post by a country mile.

  264. Dallas,
    Just to let you know. I don’t usually read past the first three lines when someone comments without pauses, that is, long, arduous-to-read paragraphs without any punctuation.

    If you want to say something break your comments up into smaller paragraphs.

    Breath, man!

  265. { I’d be prepared to volunteer to police the one about sleeping naked – starting with basically medically trained castle attendants. }

    That’s ok, please don’t.

  266. “I’m only on this page because it is a punitive ad hominem attack on a small congregation ”

    Pardon. This guy wants to be a politician and be part of government. Part of being in government is being honest and having integrity.

    Should we vote for a PM who has a history of lying? Is that an ad hominem attack?

    What has been demonstrated is that Nalliah is an attention seeking fraud and extremist who just so happens to be a Christian which is why he features on this site.

    Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, and that in some instances, questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue, as when it directly involves hypocrisy, or actions contradicting the subject’s words.

  267. Alright – the bushfire dream – he either had the premonition or he didn’t.
    Burning one’s house down in slow motion is a concept I agree with. Destroying/ burning bibles one verse at a time is what’s happened since Frankfurt theological schools invented higher criticism.

    And to this day they are wrong.

    What else have you got him for?

    gold dust? sounds odd, can’t comment much really. Tongues of fire on the day of Pentecost is something I haven’t seen either but I believe it happened pretty much exactly as recorded – I didn’t write the bible, i just happen to believe it represents the highest standards of Journalism there ever has been.


    honorarium or mail order degree? Sounds puerile and vain? Is it true – be specific please? perhaps the man has to repent of childish accolade and attention seeking.

    what else?

    linking judgments to events? Jesus warned about the tower of siloam. It is fraught with danger. But neither is it impossible.
    Ninevah and Sodom and an antediluvian world had real real warnings.
    So too, you Bones have people to warn you? Don’t like things Jesus said in the book of Revelation or else where? Its easy, just renounce Christianity. Until then the plainest meaning of Jesus’ words it that He was there before Abraham and there at the creation of the World. It seems He believed Moses exactly as is.
    So if you don’t believe Moses you fit into a category of people Jesus spoke very specifically about. Those who neither understand scripture nor understand the power of God [as it really is]

    QED Jesus predicted you perfectly.

  268. Where did the fallacy of separation of Religious entities and State come to be accepted so blindly, and seems to me, so willingly.Do they realise that it was the Bishops and the Barons rising against the injustices of the King that led to the formation of the English Parliament, which gradually reduced the Royal Powers to present day Figurehead status? Wake up Christians, begin to go back to the future on this one.Our present Governments prevail far too much on this ill conceived idea of Separation of Church and State,They have enacted Legislation to this effect,which, in the light of the foregoing are possibly invalid.In effect the Saviour of the people became a greater oppressor of the society which created nit.Do you see what I mean?Most recently, the GREAT Stalwart of Democracy, the British Parliament in the European Court stated that a woman could not wear her cross!!.Another guy lost his case, because he would not do certain things as a sex therapist and/or counsellor because of his Christian beliefs.This is the slippery end of the slope, and it is soon comint to a town near you!! So, perhaps Danny N. is trying to prevent these things from occurring here? Food for thought, indeed!!Dallas

  269. Ok, well i’m stripping down, ,,, ,,here we go,,,this is it,,,,,, i’m telling you now,,, last chance?. no i cannot do it ,sorry fans and air-conditioners.

  270. Hey Steve, I decided to give you another chance to see if I had been somewhat harsh in my first impression of people on this blog.Disappointingly, I was correct all along.Do you think it is so important to use short paragraphs? I don’t know how to use this prized feature of yours on a computer.Perhaps if you were more tolerant, and read my thoughts and statements, rather than being so irritated with my perceived inadequacy of typesetting., please listen to the message, rather than trying to purloin the messenger.How could you even think about being a real life good Samaritan, as you claim you would be, if you are so intolerant toward my lack of typing skills or a nnew arrival’s or ancient arrival’s grammar faux pas?

  271. Curiously you guys seem to have much faith in our lovely Jury system.This, is another bastardization of it’s true meaning.It has been reversed.The Jury now hangs you, originally they were meant to be your saviour, by speaking as your defender and/or character witness.Did you know that.I personally, have little faith in our wonderful Legal System.It is more about slick lawyers,Pious Magistrates and Judges, most were on the opposing side prior to being in their present positions.As far as Juries are concerned they consist of narrow minded personalities or those with way out or extreme vies of forum lovers such as we are.No wonder jails are about 50% consisting of innocent accused!!Check out how many released in the States and some few lucky enough to have had convictions overturned here, in Australia.Was Christie in the Uk one of those or was there another patsy in that case executed wrongfully?

  272. “Where did the fallacy of separation of Religious entities and State come to be accepted so blindly, and seems to me, so willingly.”

    Do you know nothing of the role of the Church (Catholic and Protestant) in medieval Europe?

    Here’s a hint:

    European wars of religion

    You would rather the state base its laws on religion like Iran or Saudi Arabia?

    Thank God for the Reformation.

    The Reformation led to the Enlightenment – people challenged superstition and dogma which was forced onto them and kept them in darkness.

    Thank God for secularism which has made our religious fanatics realise you just can’t go and slaughter people who believe differently to you and that ALL people have rights – not just the chosen few.

  273. @Dallas

    “Roundhouse Gnosticism?”

    Copied and pasted directly from wikipedia.

    Dualism and monism
    Typically, Gnostic systems are loosely described as being “dualistic” in nature, meaning that they have the view that the world consists of or is explicable as two fundamental entities. Hans Jonas writes: “The cardinal feature of gnostic thought is the radical dualism that governs the relation of God and world, and correspondingly that of man and world.” Within this definition, they run the gamut from the “radical dualist” systems of Manicheanism to the “mitigated dualism” of classic gnostic movements; Valentinian developments arguably approach a form of monism, expressed in terms previously used in a dualistic manner.

    Radical Dualism — or absolute Dualism which posits two co-equal divine forces. Manichaeism conceives of two previously coexistent realms of light and darkness which become embroiled in conflict, owing to the chaotic actions of the latter. Subsequently, certain elements of the light became entrapped within darkness; the purpose of material creation is to enact the slow process of extraction of these individual elements, at the end of which the kingdom of light will prevail over darkness. Manicheanism inherits this dualistic mythology from Zurvanist Zoroastrianism, in which the eternal spirit Ahura Mazda is opposed by his antithesis, Angra Mainyu; the two are engaged in a cosmic struggle, the conclusion of which will likewise see Ahura Mazda triumphant.
    The Mandaean creation myth witnesses the progressive emanations of Supreme Being of Light, with each emanation bringing about a progressive corruption resulting in the eventual emergence of Ptahil, a demiurge who had a hand in creating and henceforward rules the material realm.
    Additionally, general Gnostic thought (specifically to be found in Iranian groups; for instance, see “The Hymn of the Pearl”) commonly included the belief that the material world corresponds to some sort of malevolent intoxication brought about by the powers of darkness to keep elements of the light trapped inside it, or literally to keep them “in the dark”, or ignorant; in a state of drunken distraction.
    Mitigated Dualism — where one of the two principles is in some way inferior to the other. Such classical Gnostic movements as the Sethians conceived of the material world as being created by a lesser divinity than the true God that was the object of their devotion. The spiritual world is conceived of as being radically different from the material world, co-extensive with the true God, and the true home of certain enlightened members of humanity; thus, these systems were expressive of a feeling of acute alienation within the world, and their resultant aim was to allow the soul to escape the constraints presented by the physical realm.

    “Prove or disprove what I am presenting, scientifically, not just spiritually, or quoting from the Bible”

    How can I, when your Gnostic hypothesis is unscientific in the first place. However, I can certainly disprove your Gnosticism using scripture, but I won’t bother, because I’ve got a feeling you’re here spoiling for a fight and not as a seeker with genuine questions.

  274. Danny Nalliah

    “the Spirit of God has been revealing to me that the whole nation is under a curse because the witchcraft covens from Mount Ainsley in Canberra are cursing the Federal Parliament.”

    So God has cursed the entire country because witches have cursed the parliament? This divine justice is just incomprehensible. Except of course to Pastor Danny Nalliah.

    Danny’s the dangerous type who would advocate war with Indonesia “because God showed me in a dream”.

  275. I just realised that even though I have posted several times on this thread, I haven’t actually commented on the original subject. So, here goes:

    Bones, I agree with you. This guy’s theology is way off regarding God’s supposed judgement upon this country. Just not scriptural at all. However, his views on Islam are pretty spot on.

  276. News Flash. Julia did lose. The mandate of a majority was lost. This is a coalition government with Peter Slipper, Craig Thomson, Rob Oakeshott, Tony Windsor. Andrew Wilkie, Adam Bandt. She has been dictated to by Greens, Independents, and her personal installers aka AWU.

    Government, this government was a betrayal of personal trust and the people of Australia from day 1.
    This Government was stolen, on one of the most overt lies in Australian political history.

    It is morally bankrupt and has left Australia in serious financial distress.
    It has left he nation nearly borderless. Is currently destroying freedom of speech. It has ruined relations with Indonesia, left us with unimaginable on going bills for broadband, national disability insurance, border non protection etc. It gave us a north Korean building education revolution. It sent cheques to dead people and those living overseas. It burnt down houses literally and killed several insulation installers.
    And socially has raised the multi cultic white flag to all new levels.

    Australian blood has continued to flow in Afghanistan, while defence spending is slashed.

    that’s the sound of one hand clapping Bones.

    ….on religion like Iran or Saudi Arabia?
    overuse of reductio ad absurdum just makes you look even more pathetic anonymous Bones.

    all any Jury system need to work is a well educated people. Australia, like every where else in the West has been seriously dumbed down.


    “The Lord told me to spend some personal time with Prime Minister John Howard and to prophetically prepare Federal Treasurer Peter Costello as the future Prime Minister of Australia.

    I thank the Lord that I just had a one to one meeting with Peter Costello on Thursday 9th August and John Howard on Friday 10th August. The Lord had given me a clear prophetic Word for both of them and I thank Him I was able to deliver His Word in addition to praying with both of these Federal Government Leaders.

    Unfortunately, I’m not at liberty to share the details of these private encounters, but I will boldly declare that Prime Minister John Howard will be re-elected in the November election..”

    For the record John Howard, lost his seat, Costello resigned, the Liberal Party were massacred by Rudd’s Labor.

    Danny is a liar.

  278. @Bones

    “Danny is a liar.”

    Or just wrong. Believing that you had a word for someone or about someone and getting it wrong isn’t a lie. You just either didn’t hear it correctly, or it was not the Holy Spirit. It doesn’t mean that he deliberately set out to deceive.

  279. Danny Nalliah publicly claimed that God told him to conduct the “Honouring the Pentecostal Fathers” meeting in Melbourne. The most prominently honoured was the late Frank Houston who had been found guilty by his own denomination of serious sexual misconduct while in a senior position of ministry.

    In an unprecedented sentence, Frank had been banned from all AoG platforms in both Australia and New Zealand, such was the seriousness of his misconduct. Yet Mr Nalliah “honoured” him in this ceremony in Melbourne

    Even Brian didn’t turn up.

  280. “Or just wrong. ”

    No. He has form. His inane predictions are clearly aimed at attention seeking.

    He has used that court case to become a loudspeaker of his own stupidity.

    But that’s ad hominem I suppose. Nothing wrong with a perspective candidate honouring a paedophile or claiming stupid predictions.

  281. @Bones

    Don’t get me wrong. I am not sticking up for his “prophecies”. He has obviously gotten them wrong. Continually in fact! That tells me that he isn’t hearing God’s voice. And I agree with you regarding his attention seeking. But I think he truly believes he is hearing from God. None of this however means he’s a liar and is deliberately deceiving people. There’s a big difference.

  282. Bones, your stochastic screeching use of the word “liar” is something like fingernails on yesteryear’s chalk boards.

    I don’t know the history to this “prophesy” whether it contained caveats or conditions. If there were none and Danny never apologized in sack cloth and ashes for his mistake then I’d say it disqualifies him from calling himself a prophetic minister and I’d say that disqualifies him from church leadership.

    Is he a liar though?. I doubt that. Did he entertain a lying spirit?Maybe? Did he intend to deceive? I doubt that.

    But as I say this is “without prejudice” – Have you as an accuser solicited a direct comment from the man? Have you gone to him in private and then with a second witness to hear him out?

    I doubt it Bones. But you have cast an aspersion. And your name is on it even though you post here anonymously. God, the real one, is not mocked.

    cheers [thanks for the comment]
    your obeisance to allah remains unaffected. My opinion of you, unchanged.

  283. @Bones

    You should stop calling Frank Houston a paedophile.

    Why? That’s what he was.

  284. Water off a ducks back Bones.

    but you’re the “man” inverted commas who comes to this public space and says I’m doing a vow of silence and look, I’m going till Easter. Won’t comment, just read, ‘happy Easter everyone”

    Then a roman catholic joke about having completed the “penance”

    and you’re back without further explanation.

    And you’re the man screaming “liar, liar”

    Jesus had a word about you too Bones – in my humble opinion.

    But this is more written for him who has eyes, him who has ears.

    having rejected so much of the bible promises roll off the tongue fairly easily don’t they bones.

  285. Bones, your stochastic screeching use of the word “liar” is something like fingernails on yesteryear’s chalk boards.

    Listen up pedogeorge…you like to blow off with big words, trying to make yourself feel, what, more intelligent? More cultured? Yet like the wanker that you are, you can’t even use the word stochastic in its proper usage.


  286. @Greg

    “you like to blow off with big words”

    As opposed to “pedogeorge” and “wanker ” and “Wankerpedogeorge”. Lol!

  287. How’s the lenten fast going, Greg? Did you resolve anything with God about anything, like, say, your character?

    This site was ever pretty, but it’s rapidly deteriorating, that’s for sure, and I didn’t reckon it could get much worse when specks was the chairman. I thought that was the worse time, and that it was hopefully over, but since Greg’s latest episode things have definitely gone downhill.

    I don’t think it could be considered a Christian site in any way shape or form.

    You know, Greg, you have set a more worldly, undignified tone for this site for a few weeks now, and it’s showing.


  288. thanks Greg, I’ll confine stochastic to non poetic, entirely literal usages [oh, but hang on there, literature is abstract?]. Important point you make. Well done.

    The irony in all this is that Victorians are paying, 30 billion plus dollars over 25 years for a Desalination plant based on scientific prophesies from “tim flannery” types that “it won’t rain anymore and even the rain that does fall won’t fill our dams” unquote

    Moreover, in America, during every single presidential campaign there are rallies where M/C’s typically introduce the candidate as the Next President of the United States.

    So you and Bones are compiling lists of those people to expose them as what? False Prophets or Liars? They lose the election and all those rally organizers are just so many “liars”.

    Julia Gillard gets away with several of the biggest lies in Australia’s history.

    ….. but Danny, burn him, burn him, burn him.

    and the really grand daddy of all ironies.

    Mosque building Bones, embraces the allah which the Koran quite correctly describes as the “greatest deceiver of them all”

    Greg, I don’t mind you hating me. Spill you’re guts – go on, don’t hold back.

  289. How’s the lenten fast going, Greg? Did you resolve anything with God about anything, like, say, your character?

    No, he was busy with lengthening someones leg

  290. George – Danny is claiming to recieve his knowledge from God…and he has been caught out lying..he can’t get his story stright about his time in some Arab country – he swaps and changes his story – from him narrowly being caught adn gaoled or exceecuted to his wife narrrowly escaping being raped.

  291. @Steve

    I was saying the same thing yesterday. There is something awful here. Bones tried to pin the blame on us, of course, but at least you,Q and I are trying to argue for the most part from a point of scripture and defence of the doctrines and teaching that most of the church has held to for thousands of years. Even if we are incorrect in our interpretation, we are still basing our beliefs upon scripture, whereas Bones and Greg keep up with their intellectual and worldly arguments. Now, there’s nothing wrong with that per se. I think all believers should not be afraid to have long held beliefs challenged, but they go way too far with their abuse and name calling. Each to their own I guess, but it has resulted in a really terrible atmosphere here, and it is fairly easy to see which side of the debate it is coming from

  292. @Greg.

    Out of respect and consideration for his family. There are many public and private figures that I think we could refrain from always addressing by the worst possible term.

    So many people we could just call adulterer, or thief. But I wish we’d stop reducing people to that.

    Just like I wouldn’t be happy with people calling you Greg, by your worst crime or attribute.

    It’s just done with hatred, and serves no good purpose.

    And, in all seriousness, I’m concerned with Bones.

    Once again, take it or leave it, but the way Bones always does that is not right. It’s evil, and Bones is hurting his own soul.

  293. Here’s the deal, PhilipGeorge, Danny gave at least two prophecies which were off the wall.

    The first was about Costello being the next PM, which backfired. When it was pointed out to him by people like Mark Connor and others, he blamed the Christians for not praying. I kid you not! That was a horrific thing to do on the face of it, since he had been backed throughout his trial in Victoria by thousands of Christians. he has built a ministry on the back of the Victoria case, but has squandered the chance, in my view, to be able to be straight with the people because he blamed them for his error of judgment.

    Then he declared, claiming it as a prophecy, that the fires in Victoria were a judgment of God for gay laws being introduced. This was a horrendous theological error, and even Costello distanced himself from Nalliah after that disgrace. He attempted to water down the false claim but stopped short of a genuine apology and repenting of his error.

    Now we all make mistakes, but to publicly declare serious issues as being from God and then, when they blow up in his face, to blame others or not take responsibility for his words is wrong, and he has lost the respect f a greta many people who originally supported him when he was under the cosh.

    On a personal note, I wrote several times on his blog for an explanation of his poor prophetic record, and not one of my comments saw the light of day. Yet, when I tested the waters by saying something nice about Danny’s ministry, the comment was immediately published!

    That tells me he is censorial about who can speak on his site. I am not the only one with this experience.

    He gives Pentecostals a bad name, but, worse than this, he shames Jesus with his lack of integrity.

  294. re this site being Christian or not….

    I read a lot on the web, and enjoy reading comments on news stories and blog posts, from Time to huffingtonpost to Christianity Today etc etc.

    This site has the vilest language, and is the most hateful, spiteful of them all , and seems bent on disseminating the worst possible information about Christians.

    It’s sad, depressing, and has just become one more place for people to spread scorn and derision upon the Body of Christ, and promote doubt.

    I’m no prophet. but I am starting to fear that if people don’t stop, then God will judge.

    A man reaps what he sows.

  295. but they go way too far with their abuse and name calling

    But what would you expect us, mere lowly ‘God despisers’ to do? You for one are the pot calling the kettle black.

    Anyhoo – I will attempt to lift my game and the atmosphere around here

  296. Greg, I agree with you on this point. All false prophesies can and should be exposed/ put to the test/ even ridiculed if necessary.

    but hold it all up against the back drop of what is going on, and being gotten away with else where.

    And if he’s been making up some fibs about his middle east experience, hold him to account.

    other bits of the story, I suspect are entirely true.

    You see, I happen to agree, decriminalizing an abortion policy that was never policed and never going to be policed was like man shaking his puny little fist at heaven and saying “I know better”. We already had abortion on demand and decriminalizing it was like saying overtly “abortion is not only available to anyone, it is also good”

    It might be impossible even insane to link bushfires to that event – but I personally do not discount it. I think we live in a world with genuine consequences.

    In my mind it might also be 100 percent the truth.

    Victoria took one giant leap backward into a genuine dark age. Abortion remains a form of human sacrifice – and is state sanctioned now by being officially non-criminal. Not only is it paid for by unavoidable tax it is state condoned.

    While we celebrate abortion the house is slowly burning. allah hu akbar is a wave of locusts that can only destroy – its who allah is – its even written, in my opinion, by Him who cannot lie.

  297. Okay, there you go. Steve just gave a very clear rebuke of Nallhias ministry. But i don’t sense any hatred, or evil intent at all in what he said or how he said it. Absolute clarity, no punches pulled. Straight shooting! But, not said with hate, malice or foul language.

  298. @Greg

    “us, mere lowly ‘God despisers”

    I have already apologised for this remark. But, my observation was based upon evidence, not just an excuse for name calling. If someone heaps scorn upon the bible, and upon people who hold the bible as being sacred, and heaps scorn upon people who are trying to live Godly lives and are trying to live out the bible as they believe it is saying, then it’s not a very long bow to draw to suggest that these people heaping scorn are God despisers. You have denied that you are, and I have to accept that as the truth, but the evidence suggests the opposite. But I won’t call you a God despisers again. It’s not helpful.

  299. @Greg

    It is interesting to note how upset you and Bones were at my calling you that name. I have been called far, far worse by both of you many times (and others have too by the way – I am not alone in being on the receiving end of some very vile name calling from you two), yet it seems that I am the bad guy. Anyway, I’ve certainly moved on. How about you try that too Greg.

  300. I’m not in Australia so I really don’t know how much of a profile Danny has in the churches or outside.

    My first impression from what I’ve seen and read and heard from friends is that Danny hasn’t had a positive influence. But, to me that’s not something to rage about, but pray about and maybe some other Christian leaders can talk to him? Because, some of what he says is obviously good. There are Christian based, Hindu, based, Buddhist based political parties in many countries which will never hold government but attempt to play a part by influencing society on a government level with their religious point of view.

    eg. In Japan there is a Buddhist based party which is 99% supported by a buddhist sect. They will never hold government in their own right but place an important role in politics and many of their policies are based on their interpretation of buddhism.
    (I don’t support them, don’t like them – just saying that a religious political party is not such a strange idea).

    Perhaps Danny’s original statement really was that the coalition will win (if Christians pray).
    I realize that gives an easy out – but it wouldn’t be the first conditional prophetic statement in the world.

    Also, who knows. Costello might be PM in the future. I don’t know.
    From the Berlin Wall coming down, to Lincoln and Churchill bouncing back, to a black senator considered no chance against a Clinton – stranger things have happened. Japan now has a PM who resigned years back an nobody gave a chance.

    As for the honoring of Houston, I’m not into “honoring ceremonies” at all, and even this giving flowers to people who serve in church bores me. (Not really into Nobel prizes or knighthoods either).

    But so be it. As much as you want to hate on Danny for doing that and including Houston, the ceremony was obviously meaningful for those who attended. And for all the hating and talking about Houston’s sons – I understand that the eldest son turned up.

    Call me sentimental, but probably his son regardless of what has been found out, would like to remember that his dad did some good in this world.

    Can we just remember that these people who we demonize and whose memories we seem to cherish reducing to the worst possible thing, have parents, spouses, kids and grandkids. Why do we always want to publicize peoples sins?

    I don’t get it.

    I honestly don’t think God is pleased. And how God feels matters to me.

  301. PhilipGeorge,
    the world is full of sin and sinners only know how to sin, so why would they not make laws which liberate sin?

    That is not new. Victoria as one of the last States to decriminalise gaydom. The rest of the country had legislation in place which gave the homosphere at least civil ceremonies or de facto status so they had equal legal and fiscal entitlements to the married people.

    So God wasn’t sending fire on the hill people of Victoria. No. It was much simpler than that. They built their homes in a fire hazard! That is too easy to prophesy. Nw if he prophesied a cyclone in Adelaide and it happened, maybe we’d take a good look at it, but I could prophesy that a croc will take a tourist in Northern Territory this year and be almost 100% accurate!

    Danny prophesied Costello at a time when it was very likely he would be next PM, but Howard decided to dig in his heals and Rudd kicked his feet from under him. Danny’s great gamble came unstuck. He lost his chips. He should have said sorry, folks, got it wrong. Instead he blamed his own supporters.

    God isn’t punishing people for making liberal laws. He is long-suffering towards the whole world. There are sinners sinning everywhere all the time. That is what sinners do. That is why he changed the rules and sent His Son.

    What Danny should be doing more of is preaching the good news.

    He should be telling people how God’s mercy, grace and love is towards them even though they are sinners and sin a lot.

    In fact, I reckon liberal lawmaking really declares the difference between those who follow God and those who want to live on in sin, because it is far more difficult to live a holy life when everything is liberalised than when there are restraints put on us by Government.

    God tried law, and look what happened.

    That’s why he gave us grace, not to sin on, but to be empowered to resist the temptation to sin.

    God’s not angry at civil lawmakers. He is loving towards those who chose jesus, who choose life, who choose to obey his commandments of love, who decide for themselves to live a godly lift, regardless of the liberal law of the land.

  302. Steve,
    You half miss the point. Can calamity befall a city and the LORD has not done it? [a paraphrase of: If a calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it?].

    Things have consequences. A teenage girl gets pregnant, unmarried, the child will likely grow up in poverty or with serious sociological deficits [ its not a rule, its statistics]

    Abolish a “Sunday” [any day sabbath] and there are going to be more psychological stress disorders / insomnia/ chronic fatigue/ adrenal insufficiency/ mania/ depression/ bipolar/ anxiety.

    Children need parents [plural]/ humans need rest [biology]/ sin has a price.

    The slippery slope has been moving further and further away from Judeo Christian Jurisprudence/ Juridical culture. Separation of church and state is entirely mythical. The West has been burning down the house – and Nero continues to fiddle.

    This is a no brainer. Black saturday was an extreme weather event. The chief commissioner was having her hair done and planning a best selling novel [ greed is good remember – Hollywood told you]
    The greens have blocked environmental burns for years.
    Councils wouldn’t allow clearing around homes.
    Basic horse sense, common sense of a generation ago is gone – a hundred years ago everyone in those places built fire bunkers that worked.
    Environmental fuel load reduction burns were also a budget cut because governments have been effectively broke and still are. The treasury is empty. We are selling ourselves to the BIS.

    Steve, God gives a meta narrative. Provisional protection is withdrawn. King David’s house was divided by sin – regardless of how saved David was/is. They might have all been “saved” believers in YHWH – but the damage was done.

    The only thing missing is brains trust Bones planning a Belshazzar type party to celebrate Danny’s exposure to the light.

    Darwinism has done its thing much like Muhammadism has done its thing. Stalin, Hitler, Mao – all keen Darwinites. Both are tearing at the seams. The wine skin empties.

  303. (I don’t support them, don’t like them – just saying that a religious political party is not such a strange idea).

    The Muslim Brotherhood thank you for their support. As does Rev Paisley’s Orangemen.

    Aaaah politics and religion.

    Can’t wait to see Danny and his lover PhillipGeorge taking to the streets with the Mujahadeen over government policy.

    That reminds me.

    Weren’t the Mujahadeen the good guys once?

    Thankfully no one else is on Danny’s slippery slide of demented idiocy.

    Hell even Family First has joined the ranks of irrelevant parties. Danny was kicked out of them.

    God told me that Danny will fair worse than the Sex Party.

  304. Bones, I don’t support Nalliah, the Muslim Brotherhood or Paisley so your sarcasm is unwarranted.

    Wazza. No doubt. You are probably not the only one here who would attack Nalliah hysterically day and night and then vote for the sex party.

  305. No, I take that back. I realize you were joking. You, Wazza are the last gentleman standing out of the pack of liberal reprobates here.

  306. Steve, I’ll reword that

    No one attacks the foundation of Western Civilization like someone spoilled rotten with the excesses in liberty it granted them. Having thus destroyed the basis of that liberty so goes the liberty itself.

    Jesus in Matthew..

    But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, [idiot] shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    So who designed the banner to this page? Do they have a full name God doesn’t know about? Were the legionnaires who spat on and beat Jesus about the hooded head an anonymous group? Were not the hairs on their head numbered and their days to reckoning determined in a moment?

    Is this forgotten? This page passed? Was Pilate’s little hand wash a good enough rinse?

    Your argument seems to presuppose that heathen, secularist, anarchists against God, have to rule. That the basis of Western law had no attachment to the bible at great cost to all those who spread the gospel. You seem to have bitten into one rotten apple on that account, But you weren’t alone.

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