Islamic Matrix

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73 thoughts on “Islamic Matrix

  1. It’s just that there are fewer Westboro nuts than Islamic militants, it seems.

    Woolwich, London this afternoon. A man beheaded in broad daylight on our streets by ‘Allah Akbar’ chanting murderers.

    You never see this in a Westboro standoff. No sir. This was literally blood on the hands of cold blooded militants who then threatened police with a gun and knives before being stopped.

    And riots in Sweden. Cars burned by youths in three days of violence. Happening now, as we speak.

    Syria, civil war, Sunni vs Shia.

    Car bombs in Iraqi cities. The Boston bombings. Taliban atrocities. Muslim girls shot for attending school. Female genital mutilation by the thousands. Saudi Arabia executes over 40 criminals. 4 today.

    Do you still compare this to Westboro placards on the sides of streets?

  2. Usama Hasan is a senior researcher at the Quilliam Foundation, a think tank specialising in counter extremism. He tells the BBC that the hatred preached by some Islamic clerics has to stop: “The real problem here is the decisive hatred preached by a very small minority of clerics in this country in a small number of our mosques and universities. They know who they are and there are Muslim groups and other groups – left wing groups may I say – who defend that kind of grievance and victimhood mentality. That’s what must change and has to stop. A very small number of people but unfortunately their influence is too high.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22635318

  3. @Steve And you didn’t even get started. You could have mentioned the man who is sentenced to jail and 300 lashes for converting a woman in Saudi Arabia.

    If the Muslim terrorists were reduced to about 40 people who do distasteful protests while obeying laws, and they stopped bombing, raping, killing, beheading, blowing things up etc, the world would rejoice.

    Westboro Baptists ….. led by a registered Democrat who did a lot do get rid of the Jim Crow laws in his state in the face of opposition and threats.

    I think it’s a safe bet that most Londoners aren’t so scared of an obnoxious groupl of less than 5 point Calvinists in the US.

  4. And it takes far more courage for a Muslim to denounce Islamic terrorism than for a Christian to denounce the Westboro Baptists.

    Tell the 70 imams assassinated in Algeria.

  5. It takes no courage whatsoever for a Christian to denounce Westboro extremism. They’re religious legalists with a warped understanding of scripture. Easy!

    But they’re not beheading unarmed youths on the streets of London. The repulsive fantasists who did this wanted to stimulate hatred for their own people. Mindless. Culpible. Dangerous. Uncivilised. Religious fanatics.

    Now it’s your turn to denounce is kind of militancy, Bones.

  6. I have no problem in denouncing it Steve. It is disgusting, vile and sickening.

    Now I haven’t heard your denunciation for the Christian Right’s support for Rios Montt who was convicted of genocide this week.

    (In case you haven’t heard)

  7. The repulsive fantasists who did this wanted to stimulate hatred for their own people.

    So are they succeeding?

    Do you hate them yet?

  8. I’m sitting next to one. I don’t hate anyone.

    The only kind of person I’d reserve anything close to hatred for would be emotional extremists like you, but God won’t let me do it, so I have to constantly walk in love with you. But I can hate the way you treat people, and fabricate stories about them, even make up their politics for them. You are he worse kind of stirrer and liar. Hate the sin but love the sinner. Isn’t that how it goes? Loving you is that hardest kind of love. The kind of love which can only come from a relationship with Christ.

    Really, though. What are you, Bones? How do you live with such a stinking, perverted logic ,attitude?

  9. My son is living in London at the moment…in Stratford, just across the Thames from where this happened. I am concerned that the skin heads will take it upon themselves…fed by the media…to exact supposed retribution.

  10. Hate the sin but love the sinner.

    Actually it’s love the sinner, hate your sin. But yeah must be hard hating everyone else’s sin. Your sins don’t upset me that much.

    Now when you get around to it you can tell us how you feel about the Christian Right’s support for genocide.

  11. My sin is under the blood. It’s advisable to live a repented life. That’s why we take communion and confess our sin.

    Hating sin is the beginning of wisdom. I can’t be bothered to think about other people’s sin. That’s their concern, and God’s but why are you even talking about sin. Surely, in your doctrinal world it has no consequence and is therefore not really sin any more because all sinners get the same wages as saints anyway. Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die, eh!

    Yesterday’s murderers gain the same priveleges as Christians who live a repented life, according to you.

  12. It’s pretty sad when Christians can’t renounce genocide yet point the finger at everyone else’s sin and how they’re not good enough to get to heaven.

  13. It’s pretty sad when pseudochristians don’t read what Christians write, and/or ignore what they wrote, and/or tell lies about what they write.

    You’re a full-on menace to reason, Bones. No two ways about it!

  14. Tell me why it is, Bones, that, in your fantasy world of imaginary arguments you want to make believe that someone believes something they don’t? Does it make you feel better about life to lie about people and say things they have never said?

    Is this some novel way of making a point you’ve stumbled upon, or did someone teach you this? And do you teach children in your care as a teacher how to debate or discuss issues in this manner, or do you discourage dishonesty and lies?

  15. You notice how Bones, after a grudging acknowledgement that militant Islam has indeed committed atrocities, must, by default, seek some moral equivalent and aim his warped, butterfly effect, guilt-by-association, manically contrived accusations at the people he really despises – Bible believing Christians.

    Always, like some forced-to-be-politically-correct anti-christian SBS journalist, he has to go into denial of the very clearly presented evidence, and, in a completely Orwellian reversal of the actual facts at hand, find a way to point the finger at anyone but the perpetrators, as if they and their violent cause didn’t exist, or someone else did the wicked deed and falsely accused them, and, in his desperation to scrape up something from the dried up barrel he dives into for evidence, gouge out quotes from some discredited, obscure far left propaganda sources whose sole agenda is to attack Christians with a conservative political persuasion.

    So he randomly seeks the obscure, and, without even scrutinising its authenticity or accuracy, presents it as a greater truth than the actual gospel he diminishes with his unbelief, to which now he expects those who refute his claims to acknowledge despite its fallacies.

    So, as the pattern goes, he will dig up some other invented claim of a comparable Christian act in the near future.

    But, unfortunately for his delinquently wretched cause, it will only be a matter of days before some Islamic militant individual or group will perform another wicked and undeniable atrocity, claim responsibility and reveal that they do it all in the name of Mohammed, the Koran, and Allah. No barrel scraping will be necessary. It will be front page news. It will be an unfolding News Flash. It will be revealed in all its shock horror terrifying clarity. Bones, meanwhile will be googling away to find a defence.

  16. Poor little Stockholm immigrant Muslim youths have nothing to do in the evenings so they burn cars for a hobby…

    I mean, have you ever seen the minuscule number of Westboro type folks out on the streets doing anything more than wave dopey placards and shout silly slogans?

    But these youths can’t even be controlled by their parents or religious leaders. Out of hand. Out of control. And no will to correct, prevent or punish them for their violence and wanton destruction of property.

    Meanwhile hard working Swedes are paying a premium for insurance – if they can get it in city centres.

    Religion of peace? What are they teaching these kids?

    Someone needs to find out who the ringleaders are. Now is the time to act and stop the militants by any means from terrorising the streets of Europe. preferably peaceful means, of course, but if that doesn’t work?

  17. To be fair, the Islamic Society of Britain has issued a strongly worded denouncement of the crime.

    Ajmal Masroor, from the Islamic Society of Britain, described the killing as cold-blooded and horrifying.

    “They’ve done it apparently in the name of God, but there is no God in such a violent, violent act,” he said.

    “They should be locked up for good and we should be giving a very strong message out there that this is our country and you better work hard to make our country cohesive and conducive for everyone to live in, not give terror to other people.”

    Hopefully, peace-loving Muslims will put pressure on those they know to be dangerous militants and isolate them so they are more easily identified and dealt with.

  18. But, if you break down this phrase, “this is our country and you better work hard to make our country cohesive and conducive for everyone to live in, not give terror to other people”, it could be taken in a sinister way, could it not?

    What does he mean by our country and other people. Since when is the terrorised community of Britain other people?

    I dunno, folks!

  19. “Hopefully, peace-loving Muslims will put pressure on those they know to be dangerous militants”

    @Steve. Yep. And here’s hoping and praying that peace-loving Muslims and dangerous militants will come to know the Prince of Peace. The only real hope for the world is Jesus. We need to pray and preach the gospel more than ever.

  20. And right there you’re doing what you claim bones is doing…looking for and manufacturing what isn’t there.

    Although I agree the linguistics seem odd to us native English speakers, are you confident that the author of that statement has a strong grasp of how English is constructed?

  21. @Steve I don’t think there is anything wrong with his use of the terms “our country” and “other people” in this case.
    Whether he truly believes the statement or not, I don’t know but I assume he does.
    But the statement itself is very positive and should be taken as such. I do.
    So, I don’t find anything sinister in it at all.
    Do unto others = do unto other people.

    BUt I understand your uneasiness. Islamic militants will increasingly use this one off method of terror – they’ve been actively promoting it – and that makes preventing it incredibly difficult for the rest of us.

  22. @Steve I don’t think there is anything wrong with his use of the terms “our country” and “other people” in this case.
    Whether he truly believes the statement or not, I don’t know but I assume he does.

    No you don’t or you wouldn’t have stated it like that.

  23. @Steve

    I’ll restate. I have no problem with this Leader’s statement and have no issues at all with his use of the terms “our country” and “other people”.

    I assume it was a totally honest statement and really think it was. And I applaud him for it. I thought the meaning was perfectly clear and hope his message is spread throught the Muslim community.

    You deserve a medal for putting up with the toxic comments and attacks here.

  24. Good statement Q, whether you truly believe it or not I dont know, but I assume that you do and I applaud you for it.

  25. Steve’s suggestion that there is something sinister in that quote shows how mindboggling poor his comprehension skills are.

    Yet he speaks for God.

  26. Greg obviously agrees with Bones’ extreme claims. Nothing new here.

    And I only suggested the Islamic Council’s statement cold be taken in a sinister way. I hope he was genuinely meaning what he said in terms of the whole community, and not the Sharia community and the way they treat Dhimmis. Freudian slip?

  27. But judge for yourselves. Carefully read it and tell me it could not be taken in another way.

    “…we should be giving a very strong message out there that this is our country and you better work hard to make our country cohesive and conducive for everyone to live in, not give terror to other people.”

    Who is our country? And who is other people?

  28. Amazing again how people who are supposedly so literal when reading the Bible can find hidden meanings and creative interpretations in other texts when they want to.

  29. “Our country” is the UK. Its their country just as much as yours Steve. “Other people”. Refers to people other than the terrorists. Its not that difficult. Do really you think a major Islamic organisation would put forward a statement which implied that the country belonged to Muslims?

  30. It’s not actually ‘hidden’, and that’s the point. I said it ‘could’ be misinterpreted. You are so quick to judge people and place false labels on what they say.

    I also said I hope we can take them at face value.

    I also placed the statement here in the first place.

    And you think I’m seeing things which are not there!

    Dear, oh dear!

  31. Well there’s this tool on the internet called google. If you type in “Ajmal Masroor” you get a whole heap of articles on this guy.

    This is how sinister he is after the London bombings:

    AJMAL MASROOR: I pray, and I hope it doesn’t, and we will do everything in our power as a community, collectively, to ensure that it doesn’t.

    However, if it does, then we will know that we’ve not done enough. You see there is a very beautiful saying, which I have always said: “The problem of the world isn’t because the bad people are doing too many bad things, the problem of the world is because good people are doing very little about it.”

    And that’s the problem. We – those people who believe in freedom, fairness, democracy, who believe in human rights, who believe in values, who believe in what we call building civil society – must collectively stand against all sorts of hate crime, all sorts of criminality, all sorts of terrorism. And only then can we ensure, and maybe even guarantee, that we will be able to contain, manage, and hopefully prevent from something like this happening ever again.

    HAMISH ROBERTSON: Imam Ajmal Masroor, expressing the views of the majority of British Muslims.

    Definitely sinister.

    Well to those who fear people who are different.

  32. Greg obviously agrees with Bones’ extreme claims. Nothing new here.

    The trouble with text based communication mediums is the lack of ability to communicate jocularity…

  33. I agree it could be taken both ways. My internal map meant I just accepted it at face value, yours, Steve, caused you to consider the possibility of some hidden meaning.

  34. Amazing again how people who are supposedly so literal when reading the Bible can find hidden meanings and creative interpretations in other texts when they want to.

    It happens with uncommon regularity round these here parts!

  35. Well, as I have shown already, it was a hidden meaning or a creative interpretation.

    If you were to take it literally you would have to acknowledge that it was strong possibility he was making a distinction between Muslims and Dhimmis.

    I’m prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, but why would you think he would never, ever, ever have in the back of his mind the notion that one day all of the Caliphate of Europe will be under Sharia, and there will be Dhimmis [others] who also inhabit that space, who must also be respected to keep the peace for all us [the English Muslims]?

    Gosh, my dream would be that all of Europe would be Christian, and we will all have to treat the others, those non-Chrostians, with respect.

    I don’t know what you find so odd about the whole deal, because thee is one thing for sure, the majority of devout Muslims dream of the whole world being won to Islam, just as Christians would love to see the whole world won to Jesus.

    And it’s clear God has a similar plan. Do you know what it is, children?

  36. Should say, “It wasn’t a hidden meaning or creative interpretation”, but I guess I’ll wear egg for the typo!

  37. Gosh, my dream would be that all of Europe would be Christian, and we will all have to treat the others, those non-Chrostians, with respect.

    Ah, Steve Luther King…”I have a dream!”

    I see your dream and raise you one more! I have a dream also…that there would be no other! No in or out, no us and them, just we…and a ‘just’ we that seeks the good for all, not any particular sect or religion.

  38. Greg,
    I have a dream also…that there would be no other! No in or out, no us and them, just we…and a ‘just’ we that seeks the good for all, not any particular sect or religion.

    Ah, John Lennon theology. He was a bad tempered, cantankerous old sod, but I loved him and his music anyway. He was a secular giant of humanist PR. I mean that in a positive way.

    But you can’t base your theology on his round glasses drug induced whimsical worldview once you discover God’s plan for the ages.

    You probably, along with Bones, hold to the Led Zeppelin gospel of every road leads to heaven.

    Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
    There’s still time to change the road you’re on.

    Good luck with that!

    I’ll stick to the Way presented by Jesus, thanks.

  39. But, look, why don’t you and Bones simply hook up with the Bahai’s. Their ideology is far closer to yours than Christianity.

    Throughout history, God has revealed Himself to humanity through a series of divine Messengers, whose teachings guide and educate us and provide the basis for the advancement of human society. These Messengers have included Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. Their religions come from the same Source and are in essence successive chapters of one religion from God.

    God is the ultimate Reality, Creator of the universe, Whose nature is unknowable and inaccessible to humankind. Such designations as God, Allah, Yahweh, Brahma all refer to the One Divine Being. We learn about God through His Messengers, Who teach and guide humanity.

    All world religions are in essence stages in the ongoing revelation of the one religion. They come from the same Source and have the same essential purpose—to guide and educate the human race. Their spiritual core is one, but they differ in their secondary aspects such as in their social teachings, which change in relation to humanity’s evolving requirements.

    For Bahá’ís, the concepts of Heaven and Hell are allegories for nearness and remoteness from God. When we die, the condition of our souls determines our experience of the afterlife. Heaven and Hell are not physical places, but spiritual realities.

    And she’s climbing a stairway to heaven…

  40. You probably, along with Bones, hold to the Led Zeppelin gospel of every road leads to heaven.

    The John Lennon line always pisses evangelicals off. He spoke some truth.

    No one goes to heaven or hell for that matter. We go to God.

  41. As I said, I love John Lennon despite his obvious quirks. For a humanist he wrote some great lines.

    I think you have a reading deficiency, Bones.

    You don’t teach English Literature do you?

  42. Pretty sure this verse nails the Christian exclusivist theory.

    Paul makes it clear that non-Jews and non-Christians have the Law on their heart.

    Might be why some of Jesus’s teaching is apparent in ALL religions.

    12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

  43. And if they are sincere in their response to God, he will send someone to preach the gospel. Like in Acts.
    Not sure if you believe that Acts is historical or just legend though. But I’m glad you take Paul as being someone worthy of quoting and that he actually said what you quoted.

    There’s hope for you Bones.

  44. The pope preaches Bahai doctrine.

    Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

    During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of “doing good” as a principle that unites all humanity, and a “culture of encounter” to support peace.

    Yep, if you do good you’ll make it to heaven.

  45. Meanwhile, back at the Islamic question, activist Anjum Chaudery, who mentored one of the Woolwich murdering militants, makes a startling admission on the brutal killing of a young soldier on a London street.

    Anjum Chaudhry has claimed most Muslims would agree with what the man believed to be the Woolwich attacker was filmed saying moments after the death of Lee Rigby.

    Muslim panelists on Newsnight strongly rejected the claims from Anjum Chaudhry

    On Newsnight tonight, Chaudhry said while the brutal attack on a serving soldier was shocking what the man covered in blood said about foreign policy explained what he did.

    Chaudhry, who set up Islam4UK which was condemned in the Terrorism Act 2000, refused to say he abhorred and was horrified by the attack…

    “What he said in the clip which is being televised, not many muslims can disagree with it.”

    Maybe he’d like to leave England for a country which will better support his aims.

  46. Yes, Bones, you quote from chapter 2 of Romans, and the saying is true, of course, but Paul doesn’t end there, because he is making a case for all being under sin, and all needing a saviour, so he finds from scripture than none qualifies, Jew or Greek.

    Romans 3
    9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
    10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one…

    So, then, if they are all under sin, they are all in need of salvation, and there is no other name under heaven by which we can be saved but the name of Jesus.

  47. Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

    During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of “doing good” as a principle that unites all humanity, and a “culture of encounter” to support peace.

    I’m gonna like this Pope.

    I can see why Steve and the you get to heaven my way crew will hate him.

  48. And if they are sincere in their response to God, he will send someone to preach the gospel.

    Well that’s rubbish. You take one account from the Bible and apply it carte blanche to every situation around the world since the crucifixion.

    Who preached the gospel to the Aborigines for thousands of years? God was content to create these poor bastards and have them wandering around the bush to send them to hell when they die. (Except their babies – Steve) Actually Christianity worked out well for them. NOT.

    The Spirit of God is active in His creation. God has revealed Himself in other cultures through their hearts and minds.

    This can be seen in that some of what Jesus taught is in older religions.

    Unless you think it is demonic.

  49. Romans 3 says nothing about going to hell for not believing in Jesus.

    And you’re trying to make Paul contradict himself to fit in with your narrow theology.

  50. Anjum Chaudhry has claimed most Muslims would agree with what the man believed to be the Woolwich attacker was filmed saying moments after the death of Lee Rigby.

    “Tell them to bring our troops back so can all live in peace.”

    I agree with that part. No doubt the hawks will claim anyone who doesn’t support military strikes to be a terrorist supporter.

    Osama is dead.

    Why are we in Afghanistan again?

  51. The Pope’s full sermon

    Pope at Mass: Culture of encounter is the foundation of peace

    “Doing good” is a principle that unites all humanity, beyond the diversity of ideologies and religions, and creates the “culture of encounter” that is the foundation of peace: this is what Pope said at Mass this morning at the Domus Santae Martae, in the presence of employees of the Governorate of Vatican City. Cardinal Bechara Boutros Rai, Patriarch of Antioch of the Maronites, concelebrated at the Mass.

    Wednesday’s Gospel speaks to us about the disciples who prevented a person from outside their group from doing good. “They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”:

    “The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can. He must. Not can: must! Because he has this commandment within him. Instead, this ‘closing off’ that imagines that those outside, everyone, cannot do good is a wall that leads to war and also to what some people throughout history have conceived of: killing in the name of God. That we can kill in the name of God. And that, simply, is blasphemy. To say that you can kill in the name of God is blasphemy.”

    “Instead,” the Pope continued, “the Lord has created us in His image and likeness, and has given us this commandment in the depths of our heart: do good and do not do evil”:

    “The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

    “Doing good” the Pope explained, is not a matter of faith: “It is a duty, it is an identity card that our Father has given to all of us, because He has made us in His image and likeness. And He does good, always.”

    This was the final prayer of Pope Francis:

    “Today is [the feast of] Santa Rita, Patron Saint of impossible things – but this seems impossible: let us ask of her this grace, this grace that all, all, all people would do good and that we would encounter one another in this work, which is a work of creation, like the creation of the Father. A work of the family, because we are all children of God, all of us, all of us! And God loves us, all of us! May Santa Rita grant us this grace, which seems almost impossible. Amen.”

    We are all children of God. Or as Paul says God is the God of the Jews and of the Gentiles.

    Great message which some won’t like.

  52. But, look, why don’t you and Bones simply hook up with the Bahai’s. Their ideology is far closer to yours than Christianity.

    My theology is nowhere near there’s. I believe Jesus is the saviour and redeemer of all the world…I am thoroughly Christian.

  53. To be fair the Bahais believe that Jesus was uniquely God – just like all the other manifestations of God were unique.

  54. Bones agrees with Chaudhry and the killer!
    “Tell them to bring our troops back so can all live in peace.”

    That wasn’t a plea. It was a threat.

    By a religious murderer with blood on his hands and by his mentor who stirred him into action.

    Some people just don’t get it.

  55. Wazza, the Bahai’s believe anything. That’s the point. Everyone’s gonna make it. A few good works thrown in will do for you too.

    Greg. The pope was saying atheists who do good deeds will make it. Atheists! People who do not believe in any God. How can they do good works without being in Christ? They do not exist according to Scripture.

    All our good works are as filthy rags to God. (Is.64:6)

    Maybe the pope overlooked this. A Universalist pope. There’s a turn up for the book.

    Jesus actually said that no one is good but God. (Mat.19:17)

    Paul says, “There is none who does good, no, not one”. (Romans 3:12)

    First we need to receive Christ then we can enter into good works.

    For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Eph.2:10)

    Get the order right and all will be well in the end.

  56. pope,
    A work of the family, because we are all children of God, all of us, all of us! And God loves us, all of us! May Santa Rita grant us this grace, which seems almost impossible.

    Go for it, pope! pray to saints, preach error! We are all the children of God. Unless there are still those who are of their father the devil! Or the children of disobedience! Or the children of wrath (Eph.2:1-3)!

    You see, according to Jesus’ doctrine, by which we should surely live, unless a person is born again they will not become a son or daughter of God. They have to receive Christ.

    They have to ‘come out from among them’, that is come out from among unbelievers and come to Christ to be called sons and daughters of the Almighty.

    2 Corinthians 6
    15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
    16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people.”
    17 Therefore “Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.”
    18 “I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the LORD Almighty.”

    Someone tell the pope!

  57. Atheists! People who do not believe in any God. How can they do good works without being in Christ? They do not exist according to Scripture.

    Do we need to go down the Fred Hollows argument again?

  58. Not a great message. A poor theology and a godless ending.

    Why even be a Catholic?

    If doing good were all it takes, why do we need Christ?

    And Paul got it hopelessly wrong…

    For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

    Not of yourselves.

    Not of works.

  59. Some sinister comments coming out of Britain

    Julie Siddiqi, Islamic Society of Britain

    “We need to remain calm and people need to remain vigilant.

    We need to make sure we don’t allow extremists to divide the country. We need to remain calm and measured and get the message out there that we will not allow this to divide us.

    It was an attack on all of us, on our country, all of us.

    It’s very hard for the good people of this country to understand what’s going on. How can you say your religion is a religion of peace and then you have a guy literally with blood on his hands and a knife in his hand doing something completely the opposite?

    I don’t think it matters what is happening in another country in any way whatsoever. This should never have happened. There is no justification.”

    Jahan Mahmood, a community leader from Birmingham

    There needs to be better collaboration between the authorities and the communities.

    In many instances the government hasn’t really listened and there is a lot of talk about doing the work that they claim to carry out and the same can go for a number of senior Muslim organisations

    These attackers are two isolated individuals who appear to be brainwashed and indoctrinated.

    One of them appeared to quote from the bible. An extreme jihadist Muslim would not quote from the bible.

    We are sickened by these types of events and we are deeply disturbed by their misguided interpretations of the faith”

    Ajmal Masroor, an Imam and broadcaster in London

    “If it does it’ll be a tragedy because we would have allowed the terrorists and the thugs to win the battle, or the narrative. We don’t want to go down that route.

    I would like to call upon every community member listening that there are racist thugs in our country, there are criminals, there are murderers, there are paedophiles – we don’t all become vigilantes and we don’t go around attacking one another.

    At this moment in time when things are very difficult we would all make a distinction. These idiots have done this, there is no God in what they’ve done, it is not done in the name of Islam. It is not done for Muslims, it is just their thuggish low-life scum mindset.”

    The Muslim Council of Britain, a representative Muslim body

    “This is a truly barbaric act that has no basis in Islam and we condemn this unreservedly. Our thoughts are with the victim and his family. We understand the victim is a serving member of the armed forces. Muslims have long served in this country’s armed forces, proudly and with honour. This attack on a member of the armed forces is dishonourable, and no cause justifies this murder.

    This action will no doubt heighten tensions on the streets of the United Kingdom. We call on all our communities, Muslim and non-Muslim, to come together in solidarity to ensure the forces of hatred do not prevail. It is important we allow our police authorities to do their job without speculation. We also urge the utmost vigilance and ask the police authorities to calm tensions.”

    Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22637534

  60. Why do you call them sinister? They are a normal reaction to a horrific crime carried out in broad daylight on the streets of London. Many Muslims hate what is happening in their name. So they should. Let them root out the villains and shut down the militant imams.

    Your perverse sentiments do not help one bit. You need to get a rip on your high level of hatred.

  61. <>
    New International Version
    A Prophecy Against Babylon

    1A prophecy against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:

    2Raise a banner on a bare hilltop,
    shout to them;
    beckon to them
    to enter the gates of the nobles.
    3I have commanded those I prepared for battle;
    I have summoned my warriors to carry out my wrath—
    those who rejoice in my triumph.
    4Listen, a noise on the mountains,
    like that of a great multitude!
    Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms,
    like nations massing together!
    The Lord Almighty is mustering
    an army for war.
    5They come from faraway lands,
    from the ends of the heavens—
    the Lord and the weapons of his wrath—
    to destroy the whole country.
    6Wail, for the day of the Lord is near;
    it will come like destruction from the Almighty.a
    7Because of this, all hands will go limp,
    every heart will melt with fear.
    8Terror will seize them,
    pain and anguish will grip them;
    they will writhe like a woman in labor.
    They will look aghast at each other,
    their faces aflame.
    9See, the day of the Lord is coming
    —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—
    to make the land desolate
    and destroy the sinners within it.
    10The stars of heaven and their constellations
    will not show their light.
    The rising sun will be darkened
    and the moon will not give its light.
    11I will punish the world for its evil,
    the wicked for their sins.
    I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
    and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
    12I will make people scarcer than pure gold,
    more rare than the gold of Ophir.
    13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
    and the earth will shake from its place
    at the wrath of the Lord Almighty,
    in the day of his burning anger.
    14Like a hunted gazelle,
    like sheep without a shepherd,
    they will all return to their own people,
    they will flee to their native land.
    15Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
    all who are caught will fall by the sword.
    16Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
    their houses will be looted and their wives violated.
    17See, I will stir up against them the Medes,
    who do not care for silver
    and have no delight in gold.
    18Their bows will strike down the young men;
    they will have no mercy on infants,
    nor will they look with compassion on children.
    19Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
    the pride and glory of the Babylonians,b
    will be overthrown by God
    like Sodom and Gomorrah.
    20She will never be inhabited
    or lived in through all generations;
    there no nomads will pitch their tents,
    there no shepherds will rest their flocks.
    21But desert creatures will lie there,
    jackals will fill her houses;
    there the owls will dwell,
    and there the wild goats will leap about.
    22Hyenas will inhabit her strongholds,
    jackals her luxurious palaces.
    Her time is at hand,

    and her days will not be prolonged.

  62. Bones,
    Yes I can see that for you doing good is bad.

    You really don’t get the gospel, do you, Bones. I almost feel embarrassed at having to speak to you about the basic theology of salvation.

    Doing good is good, but it won’t save you, Bones.

    I know the pope is saying that doing good will save you even if you’re an atheist, but in so doing he is denying both Jesus and Paul.

    As I pointed out to you earlier, doing good is good works and we are not saved by works. we are saved by grace through faith. It is not of ourselves. We cannot save ourselves. Not by works. Not by good deeds. Not by penance. Not by any means.

    We cannot buy or work our way into heaven.

    Our own righteousness, that is, doing what is right according to law, is like filthy rags to God. Do you know the literal meaning of ‘filthy rags’, Bones? It is literally menstrual cloth. And the word for ‘cloth’ can also mean ‘treachery or deceit’. The Hebrew for ‘righteousness’ is tsadqah, meaning righteous acts or justice. All our justice and self-righteous acts are like a soiled menstrual cloth of treachery and deceit to God. Blood soaked discarded seed doomed to die.

    Our useful good works cannot begin until we have been saved. We need to be in Christ Jesus before we can begin to do good in God’s sight. Our works, however good, however extravagant or philanthropic in man’s eyes, are not worth anything in terms of redemption, because God cannot be bought off.

    We are saved by grace through faith.

    Doing good is good, but it will not save us.

  63. I know the pope is saying that doing good will save you even if you’re an atheist, but in so doing he is denying both Jesus and Paul.

    That’s just not true at all Steve. Pope Francis articulated the 100% efficacy of the redemptive work of Jesus, and that we all meet together; male or female, Jew or gentile, slave or free, athiest or Christian, in the doing of good works.

    Jesus saves and redeems, good works is where we can all celebrate that fact.

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