Accurate Prophets of Doom?

On the day of the Boston marathon, an eyewitness reported that announcements were made that the authorities were conducting a training exercise involving bomb-sniffer dogs.

 

What a coincidence that the day they conducted the exercise, the bombers would plant bombs….

But this also happened on 9/11.  In what has been described as a bizarre coincidence, a US intelligence agency was conducting an exercise near Washington Dulles airport involving a plane crash into one of their buildings – within an hour of Flight 77 taking off from that same airport.  Flukey huh?  http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/wire_stories/0903_plane_exercise.htm

But wait, hasn’t this kind of thing happened recently?  Yes, the Anders Breivik terrorist attack.  Police were conducting a training exercise for a projected ongoing terrorist attack in which the perpetrators goal was to shoot as many people as possible and then shoot the police.   Just in time too, for 26 minutes after they finished the exercise – the real thing happened.

But this kind of lucky prediction wouldn’t have occurred for the London 7/7 tube bombings would it.  Oh wait…

.. Spooky huh?

-wazza2


137 thoughts on “Accurate Prophets of Doom?

  1. On the morning of Feb 22, 2011, a high level delegation of American Congressman and officials flew out of Christchurch New Zealand two hours before the lunchtime Earthquake. But never fear, the head of FEMA and his faithful side-kick, along with a USAR team in a hangar at the Airport, were here, as well as 1000 fully equipped soldiers engaged in a “hearts and minds” exercise in South Canterbury, not far from Christchurch, who quickly instituted Martial Law, and the Scalar technology equipped Frigate Canterbury was in Port Lyttelton, fully equipped to handle an emergency.

    Meanwhile, just seconds before the quake hit, a strange release of “blue electric type energy” under the water and within the harbor was noted by fisherman returning up the harbor. Also cats and dogs were going nuts for days preceding this, as they are again now – this would be the HAARP transmissions which they are more sensitized to than humans.

    This latest EQ in China is another step along the way to eradicating a big chunk of the useless eaters – but it will really hit the fan when the Three Gorges Dam is breached by a major EQ, which will suit the Communist Globalist Han’s but certainly not the Southern Chinese.

    And then they will come down here and finish to job on good old Nuclear Free NZ – so they can get their filthy oil stained, blood stained hands on the HUGE Oil and mineral reserves in NZ, especially the Southern Basin, while keeping NZ as the Haiti of the South Pacific, and turn this into a plantation for rich Satanic Euro-trash (aka the New Aristocracy).

    But here is a prophecy for you all, and it does not come from the script being written by the Satanic Political Powers That Be who seek to inherit the world for themselves, but from Almighty God, who told me that He shall divide those who seek to divide the Nations for plunder, and He reminded me that He came NOT to unite (flesh and Spirit), but to divide (them), and those who live by the sword shall die by the Sword.

    Between the manufactured EQ’s and Weather (Chemtrails and HAARP), life here is becoming increasingly hellish for many, while the fat cats suck down the cream in this lovely little love nest of sin and corruption called New Zealand. Our leaders are beyond corrupt – Many are Satanic and given to practices which when they are exposed to the Light of the Lord shall be shown to be utterly Devilish – especially the Labour Party. I am not exaggerating – it is horrible – it is Ichabod.

    Political leaders in America, Britain, Canada and Oz (the White Five), and many church leaders are no better – for God has indeed given our Nations leaders after the hearts of the people, and it’s Saul downhill from here until the root of Jesse pops up!

  2. Just the other day,before i went to the dunny,my dog was conducting a bum sniffer exercise.It turned out to be a dud.

  3. We have a 10mth old Blue Healer x Huntaway pup, a bum sniffer if ever there was one, and a whole lot smarter than many people I know – and he likes chilli. I grow some of the meanest peppers this side of the black stump – worm pooh is the trick and lots of UV – my peppers would make your sphincter pucker.

    But what has this to do with the undeniable fact that we are at a critical phase of history? Are your senses so reduced that you cannot sniff out what is going on and so are reduced to mocking what you do not understand – yapping like excited dogs over what you see as shite?

    Tomorrow is ANZAC day – when folk commemorate and celebrate the sacrifice of so many brave (but naive) countrymen who were led like lambs to the slaughter for the sake of the Empire and so the rich folks could get even richer and whole bunch of people of meager means die.

    By the way, tomorrow is also a Roman feast day when dogs get sacrificed to appease the gods of the crops – do you think that the Romish Royalist Churchill (and Druid Bard) might have known what he was doing when he sacrificed so many Commonwealth dogs at Gallipoli (they who were mowed down by machine guns supplied DURING THE WAR by Vickers no less)?

    You guys have no idea what is really going on – go back to you dunnies and you poohs-papers. War is become a rich man’s game and the end of this game is total global domination and the culling of the population.

    8. And I looked and, behold, a [pale] greenish horse, and the one seated on it, his name is Death, and the netherworld clings to him. And he has been given authority over a quarter of the earth, to kill by the sword and by famine and by death and by carnivorous creatures of the earth.

    Now what was that about your dog? When there is no more Pal in the cupboard, he might be looking more to bight your bum instead of sniffing it!

    Jesus did not come to reconcile flesh and Spirit, but to divide by the Sword of the Spirit – the real “SS”.

    By 2020 every EYE shall have seen.

  4. >– my peppers would make your sphincter pucker.Are your senses so reduced that you cannot sniff out what is going on and so are reduced to mocking what you do not understandTomorrow is ANZAC daydo you think that the Romish Royalist Churchill (and Druid Bard) might have known what he was doing when he sacrificed so many Commonwealth dogs at GallipoliYou guys have no idea what is really going on8. And I looked and, behold, a [pale] greenish horse, and the one seated on it, his name is Death, and the netherworld clings to him. And he has been given authority over a quarter of the earth, to kill by the sword and by famine and by death and by carnivorous creatures of the earth.Now what was that about your dog? When there is no more Pal in the cupboard, he might be looking more to bight your bum instead of sniffing it!Jesus did not come to reconcile flesh and Spirit, but to divide by the Sword of the Spirit – the real “SS”.By 2020 every EYE shall have seen.

    Possibly by 2020,every world wide house to house visitation will have been conducted by the Jay Dubbs.

  5. Whatever happened in the above comment, i have no idea.
    Something went truly wrong, don’ know.
    Not what i posted!!!!

  6. @Ian,
    I will try again,
    As for my sphincter puckering,that ship has sailed long ago.
    I am a long time chilli veteran.
    There is no need to sniff out facts,when they have already been foretold.
    I just bought a case for the Anzacs,i will drink it for them.
    Switzerland, China, Vietnam and South Korea don’t like dogs going to waste.
    Oh,and war has always been a game of thrones.
    And here is a comparative translation that Bones can configure.(OR TRY TO)
    Revelation 6:8
    Amplified Bible (AMP)
    8 So I looked, and behold, an ashy pale horse [[a]black and blue as if made so by bruising], and its rider’s name was Death, and Hades (the realm of the dead) followed him closely. And they were given authority and power over a fourth part of the earth to kill with the sword and with famine and with plague (pestilence, disease) and with wild beasts of the earth.
    And we see another 2020 vision.
    I see 3.

  7. The only meds we need are in the GOS-PILLS. OK?

    You guys may call me crazy – but you will find out soon enough that I actually know stuff that is so far beyond where you are at that you would have to forsake most of what you know to even begin to learn of it – like most of you are still stuck on the Trinity and do not know Him as The Seven and many of you still believe in the myth of Hell and in hierarchies and coverings and other such nonsense. In fact, much of what you believe has been given to you by the Jews and the Romans – you know – the ones who offed Jesus! But even they fulfilled their function and purpose – like keeping Mankind in the DEBTORS PRISON of delusion and darkness.

    War has always been about lust, and is about nothing else, and we are meant to reign in life as Kings and Priests of a New Covenant, that which is of the Spirit and not of the letter. The Church has dropped the ball and spent the last 500 or so years steadily descending into ever deepening delusion to the extent that they no longer KNOW GOD but are wrapped in their own pretensions, for they knew God but preferred their own opinions and desires and so God, (remember Him?) has abandoned, as in ISCHABOD, them to their lusts and to depravity, such that men desire men and women desire women. The world is in a state of disease and sickness such as it has not been since Sodom.

    When God raises up the Armies of Lusty Looters to assail Israel, He does it to conquer the lusts of both parties (He wastes nothing, nor any opportunity).

    The net sum game is LOVE – this is all about LOVE and learning to LOVE as God first loved us. The people Paul spoke of as reprobates KNEW GOD AS GOD but refused to acknowledge Him as God – in other words, they did not let him in to be the Lord of Life (aka LOL) and the Love of their Lives. But of course you cannot escape the prison which is Christ, and by which all mean are held in common disobedience such that God may be merciful to all.

    Everything Jesus did was metaphorical of a deeper message – even the Cross is a METAPHOR, but a metaphor may be made a mechanism and therefore it becomes and ICON or EYE-CON. (The major weakness of the Eastern Orthodox system is that they cling to Iconography whereas we ought really to be Iconoclasts and stone temple destroyers).

    The trouble with having seen open visions of the future, or being caught up to heaven, of having experienced things which are not lawful to utter (lest they make some to stumble) is that it spoils you for this world.

    There is another war coming and there will be disasters of apocalyptic scale – just wait until the PTB take out Shanghai and much of Southern China by setting off an EQ under the Three Gorges Dam. That will be a marker for you all – after that it really gets crazy for a while – especially when Wellington, Taupo and Melbourne go, and then there is the Tsunami which will wipe out Darwin – why would you name a city after a demon possessed deceiver? Third time lucky?

    Oh well, enjoy the show guys, its going to be a hoot – and remember – if you are anywhere near the East Coast of Oz when Wellington goes you will have about 3 1/2hrs to get the hell out of there…good thing I don’t own any property on the Gold Coast…

  8. By the way, they are not accurate prophets of doom – they are merely reading the autocue for the guys who are writing the script for the reality show which earth is become and is becoming – they are the Presstitutes of the New Temple of Babel.

    By seeding the imagination of Man they hope to pursue and to complete “THEIR” plan of their Empire inheriting the world – which is of course madness, but then who ever said being as gods was sane? In fact, it could be said that INSANITY entered by ADAM, and became the abiding estate of much of Mankind simply by virtue of the fact that to have no intimate KNOWLEDGE of GOD AS GOD, is insanity, or as Jesus said to the Jews, “Does it not say in your Law that you are (as) gods?” Boy, did that wind them up! In other words He was telling them that they were of Satan and not of God as they had presumed themselves to be. Even Peter had to get told to “Get out of My face, adversary! – for you savor NOT of the things of God, but of the things of Man” – to wit, Humanism is Satanism and is adversarial to God – to be a friend to the world is to become as the enemy of God.

    But this won’t stop the Ecumenical Mob from trying to make everyone sheep when the many are still behaving as goats and as pigs.

    Earthquake weather today – you get used to it quite quickly – the Army of the Assyria are firing up their toys again – I would not want to HAARP on about it but…most of you seem to be still stuck in the Stone Age when it comes to what modern Babylonian technology is capable of – especially manipulating the weather (thank you Jetstar, China Air, Weather Management Inc, CIA, Raytheon and Rothschild et al) and “arranging” EQ’s. But me, I don’t give a rat’s anymore – they can have their world – I have been promised a whole New One, so they are welcome to this rat infested shit-hole of a planet.

    When God tells me stuff like the current conditions are due to His Army, the Assyrians, guys like you think I am crazy, while I just think you are too blinkered and conditioned to hear God after such manner. Me, I just ask, even if I am not going to like the answer – for you should never, ever need to know anything except Christ Jesus and Him crucified, and then you have the Mind of Christ instead of your own thoughts, and then all the insane people think YOU are the crazy one!

    There is a worldwide re-Vival coming, and you will either be caught up in it or go over to the “good” side of darkness and join the Antichrists mob, if you are not already on board with the Beast and have yielded your Kingship and Priesthood to some hood whose a priest for the Beast! My wife had a vision of this – of the Wolf-sheep’s-clothing Nicolaitans and the cowling and their howling – this why she will not go near churches and why God has been leveling them – and is going to shatter them all – but hey – that’s what he does – He shall have none other before Him and He is a jealous God.

    The litmus test is how much resurrection power is working in your life? You know if you serve Jesus that the world will hate you, yes? Those of whom the world approves as “Christian” are invariably antichrist – it is impossible to be anything else – whereas the remnant are those of whom Paul described as being set upon by most everyone, especially those who ought to be as brothers, and we know that they who say that they love God but hate their brother are the most deluded of all Men and are in darkness still.

    As for what the world is doing, I laugh at it and am happy to be called Looney – but I will know your power, not your words, and guess what? Your power is mostly in your words, not in your ways, for if it were so then you would know what miracles are and you would know what it means when Jesus says, “Think not that I have come to spread Peace upon the earth, but DIVISION”.

  9. (Oh well, enjoy the show guys, its going to be a hoot – and remember – if you are anywhere near the East Coast of Oz when Wellington goes you will have about 3 1/2hrs to get the hell out of there…good thing I don’t own any property on the Gold Coast…)

    Oh dear,it’s not looking to good for me.
    Then i will definitely have to make arrangements.
    I’m thinking,
    Bigger surfboard,longer leggy.

  10. Loœœœœñææçÿ is your lot Ian…you’ve been inhaling too much lead or mercury or something odd on all your jewelry making…but nothing is surer than that your ramblings are exactly that…lunatic. If not then I will apologise and join you in telling the world.

  11. “the Army of the Assyria are firing up their toys again”

    Isaiah 10
    New International Version (NIV)
    10 Woe to those who make unjust laws,
    to those who issue oppressive decrees,
    2 to deprive the poor of their rights
    and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people,
    making widows their prey
    and robbing the fatherless.
    3 What will you do on the day of reckoning,
    when disaster comes from afar?
    To whom will you run for help?
    Where will you leave your riches?
    4 Nothing will remain but to cringe among the captives
    or fall among the slain.
    Yet for all this, his anger is not turned away,
    his hand is still upraised.
    God’s Judgment on Assyria

    5 “Woe to the Assyrian, the rod of my anger,
    in whose hand is the club of my wrath!
    6 I send him against a godless nation,
    I dispatch him against a people who anger me,
    to seize loot and snatch plunder,
    and to trample them down like mud in the streets.
    7 But this is not what he intends,
    this is not what he has in mind;
    his purpose is to destroy,
    to put an end to many nations.
    8 ‘Are not my commanders all kings?’ he says.
    9 ‘Has not Kalno fared like Carchemish?
    Is not Hamath like Arpad,
    and Samaria like Damascus?
    10 As my hand seized the kingdoms of the idols,
    kingdoms whose images excelled those of Jerusalem and Samaria—
    11 shall I not deal with Jerusalem and her images
    as I dealt with Samaria and her idols?’”
    12 When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, “I will punish the king of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes. 13 For he says:

    “‘By the strength of my hand I have done this,
    and by my wisdom, because I have understanding.
    I removed the boundaries of nations,
    I plundered their treasures;
    like a mighty one I subdued[a] their kings.
    14 As one reaches into a nest,
    so my hand reached for the wealth of the nations;
    as people gather abandoned eggs,
    so I gathered all the countries;
    not one flapped a wing,
    or opened its mouth to chirp.’”
    15 Does the ax raise itself above the person who swings it,
    or the saw boast against the one who uses it?
    As if a rod were to wield the person who lifts it up,
    or a club brandish the one who is not wood!
    16 Therefore, the Lord, the Lord Almighty,
    will send a wasting disease upon his sturdy warriors;
    under his pomp a fire will be kindled
    like a blazing flame.
    17 The Light of Israel will become a fire,
    their Holy One a flame;
    in a single day it will burn and consume
    his thorns and his briers.
    18 The splendor of his forests and fertile fields
    it will completely destroy,
    as when a sick person wastes away.
    19 And the remaining trees of his forests will be so few
    that a child could write them down.

    This is the plan determined for the whole world.

  12. Wow – I was not aware of that scripture – thank you very much – it pretty much nails it, yes? The reason why I said Army of the Assyrian is that is what I heard when I asked what was going on in the world and in our neighborhood. I too got the sense that this was inevitable and that the many who ought to be serving God had chosen their own outcomes by denying God’s grace by wanting to play the harlot with His enemies, so if they favored His enemies then He would too. Assyria is also Babylon and Edom, it is become Gog, the West and Germany.

    If you do the research you may find that Charles “The Wolf” Windsor is the direct descendant and title holder of the Kings of Assyria, and he is also now Supreme Commander of all United Kingdom Armed Forces, as of 6:16:2012. Gee, its just like being in the middle of history in the making!

    Greg, just ask Jesus, I am not as crazy as you think – if you had seen what I have you might be a little more gracious, but I too was a doubting Thomas and had to have things proven to me, but once you are convinced, like Thomas you will likely venture further than most, and be utterly spoiled for this world.

  13. This ship has definately sailed, now my past POST has been deleted. On what grounds? For actually saying what I think, that I found eye’s comments about things offensive????

    You guys whoever you are seriously have a problem if you have to delete someone honestly saying they get offended.

    Ian not sure why you waste your time on here , Greg is totally disrespectful of you. So I’m guessing Greg is the mod because he didn’t like what I said about him before and deleted my post.

    Are you really being loving Greg? Seriously. Calling and implying Ian is a nut job! Not cool.

  14. Sometimes I wonder why too – but Greg will be sorted by the same Savior as Iwill, of that I am sure. I have had others call me a nut job – it usually comes back and bights them in the bum – like one staunch Catholic guy who I did business with years ago who told a compatriot that while I was doubtless a genius, that I was as mad as a hatter too.

    Prior to that he had been having a hard time of it spiritually and I had told him what worked for me and had given him a Phil Keaggy tape to listen to in his travels (The Wind and The Wheat – a brilliant collection of worship music lovingly ministered by one of God’s premier minstrels).

    I thought that I was being helpful to a brother in need, as I did not see any difference in Christ – all are One in him.

    I was slightly perplexed by his words as he had been so nice to my face (as only a ‘Good’ Christian businessman can be two-faced) so I prayed that God would have a wee chat with him and I gave him up to God.

    He had a severe mental breakdown and had to retire.

    At least Greg has the stones to stand solidly behind his Avatar and fire his fiery barbs and is not talking about me behind my back, eh Greg? But I have this shield about me which is just the ticket for quenching such fiery darts of the Accuser of the brethren, no matter witch of his ministers he uses to shoot them.

    Greg, you actually began to show some degree of humility there for a little while – has the problem abated such that now you feel free to resume your judgment of your brothers? There is a huge difference between taking people to task for being blind leaders to the blind, for being Pharisees or Tithe burgling, sheep rustling reprobates who promote good works; than there is in taking a crack at someone as you either do not understand what they are talking about or feel that you do and are therefore qualified to comment on them rather than of their works.

    I have been on the outers ever since God made me so by sharing things with me few humans get to encounter. I asked Him why and He told me that I was a man after His own heart and that He could count on me to noise it abroad regardless of how crazy it made me appear. They said of Jesus that He was mad and or had a demon, so I figure that I am in the right company, for if they hate the Master, what will be the lot of His servants?

    We are so surrounded by delusion and propaganda and conditioned by the opiate of popular religion. Most of what is printed in the MSM is deception dressed up as News so it is little wonder that when a watchman says “watch out” that they have swallowed the lies of the world hook, line and thinker and say, peace and safety, peace and safety.

    But there shall be NO peace and safety, and The Lord is coming to TAKE PEACE (of Mankind) FROM THE EARTH so that it might be replaced by HIS PEACE, which passes all Human understanding. He shall divide the dividers and give them their portion with the hypocrites.

    MY challenge to all remains the same – simply agree with me that whoever needs to hear whatsoever shall do and that it shall be by the Holy Spirit of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of Israel an of Heaven and Earth. Just so as we are talking the same God, y’all. Can you stand some more correcting Greg? I can. This is how iron sharpens iron – how the Rod in you and the Rod in me bring us all to Calvary, and beyond to the Resurrection and the Power thereof.

    Like Paul said, I know your words but will I know your Power?

    As in, are we serving the same POWER? Do you actually have any resurrection power in your life or are you just religiously self contained and content to hide behind your Avatars and comment? That is why I use my real name and do not conceal my identity. If I am right, God will be my validation; and where i am wrong, then He shall be my corrector – for He is the author and the finisher of my faith.

    Oh, and by the way, He prefers the Seven to the Trinity – just like you or I do not like being lied about by crazy Catholics….

  15. By the way, Greg, a key component of the foundational truth of God in Jesus Christ, is that we are NOT TO KNOW ANY MAN AFTER THE FLESH. Now when you call me crazy, are you referring to my temporal flesh man or the eternal Spirit, the Christ Life which is my life, ergo it is no longer I that lives but Christ which ever lives in me? So when you call me crazy, really you are judging me after the flesh, namely yours more than mine, but the real danger lies in that you are actually judging Christ.

    If you really knew me, sat down and talked with me over a bunch of Bibles and a cup of coffee, you might find that not only has God shared some very deep stuff with me to share with others, but that the 2 dimensional characterization of me which is the result of your judgment and not my works is actually very much askew, and that is why it does not bother me much.

    Now I reserve the right to judge the works of others whether they be of God, as to me the nature of good works is self-evident in that they savor of the things of Man and not of God. This is why the puissant pious cannot understand why God would allow a City, ostensibly named in honor of His only begotten Son, to be trashed and most of the churches thereof reduced to rubble, or as one 9yr prophet said, “Gran, God just told me He is going to BASH the Churches in Christchurch”.

    This too is why so many believers (sorry Bones) cling to the Historicist position or insist that the prophets ceased to be of relevance after Calvary and the Cross. A while back i asked God what was going on and He said that this was Revelation 13 and when I asked him about the latest (last?) Pope He said Revelation 6. How can 6 be before 13? How can God have a Lamb slain from before the worlds, from way before Calvary?

    The answers are actually easy, but you do not find them by figuring it out, but by being bold enough to be TOLD about what is going on and what it is all about.

    When I read those words from Isaiah they came alive and danced before me, and my Spirit danced and my heart did leap within me and my whole being cried “Hallelujah!”

  16. “sorry Bones”

    Hey no problems. Isaiah 10’s got nothing to do with the end of the world but of the end of Sennacherib’s reign.

    Keep reading whatever you want into it though.

    Everyone else does.

    Isaiah 10

    16. fat ones–( Isaiah 5:17 ). The robust and choice soldiers of Assyria ( Psalms 78:31 , where “fattest” answers in the parallelism to “chosen,” or “young men,” Margin).
    leanness–carrying out the image on “fat ones.” Destruction ( Psalms 106:15 ). Fulfilled ( Isaiah 37:36 ).
    his glory–Assyria’s nobles. So in Isaiah 5:13 , Margin; Isaiah 8:7 .
    kindle–a new image from fire consuming quickly dry materials ( Zechariah 12:6 ).

    17, 18. light of Israel–carrying out the image in the end of Isaiah 10:16 . Jehovah, who is a light to Israel, shall be the “fire” ( Deuteronomy 4:24 , Hebrews 12:29 ) that shall ignite the “thorns,” (the Assyrians, like dry fuel, a ready prey to flame).

    18. glory of his forest–The common soldiers, the princes, officers, &c., all alike together, shall be consumed
    in one day–( Isaiah 37:36 ).
    fruitful field–literally, “Carmel,” a rich mountain in the tribe of Asher. Figurative for Sennacherib’s mighty army. Perhaps alluding to his own boasting words about to be uttered ( Isaiah 37:24 ), “I will enter the forest of his Carmel.”
    soul and body–proverbial for utterly; the entire man is made up of soul and body.
    as when a standard bearer fainteth–rather, “they shall be as when a sick man” (from a Syriac root) wastes away.” Compare “leanness,” that is, wasting destruction ( Isaiah 10:16 ) [MAURER]. Or, “there shall be an entire dissipation, like a perfect melting” (namely, of the Assyrian army) [HORSLEY].

    19. rest–those who shall survive the destruction of the host.
    his forest–same image as in Isaiah 10:18 , for the once dense army.
    child . . . write–so few that a child might count them.

    20-22. The effect on the “remnant” (contrasted with the Assyrian remnant, Isaiah 10:19 ); namely, those who shall be left after the invasion of Sennacherib, will be a return from dependence on external idolatrous nations, as Assyria and Egypt ( 2 Kings 18:21 , 16:7-9 ), to the God of the theocracy; fulfilled in part in the pious Hezekiah’s days; but from the future aspect under which Paul, in Romans 9:27 Romans 9:28 (compare “short work” with “whole work,” Isaiah 10:12 , here), regards the whole prophecy, the “remnant,” “who stay upon the Lord,” probably will receive their fullest realization in the portion of Jews left after that Antichrist shall have been overthrown, who shall “return” unto the Lord ( Isaiah 6:13 , 7:3 , Zechariah 12:9 Zechariah 12:10 , Zechariah 14:2 Zechariah 14:3 , Zephaniah 3:12 ).

    Gee people are dumb when they read the Bible.

  17. ” Isaiah 10′s got nothing to do with the end of the world but of the end of Sennacherib’s reign. ”

    The entire Bible from alpha to omega concerns end times.
    Who is the beginning and the end?

  18. Jesus is the Alap and the Tau, the beginning and the end, the INTENTION AND THE CONSUMMATION.

    OK, so in the last part of the above post you mention the remnant – just who is and what is this remnant about?

    27. Isaiah preached regarding the Children of Israel, that even if their number became like the sand in the sea, certain of them will be [destined] for eternal Life.
    28. The Manifestation (Word) will be developed and spread, and they shall make everyone worship our Lord on earth.
    29. And like the thing that Isaiah had foretold,
    “That if the Almighty Lord had not increased
    the number of the ordained,
    We would have become like Sodom,
    and would have resembled Gomorah.”

    Note, as the Prophet Isaiah foretold!

    OK, so the remnant, the “certain of them” who will be destined for eternal life are they to whom God has entrusted the keys to the kingdom, those whom He has “destined” to be the ministers of, and the carriers of the message of eternal life. It is for them to become increased, to proclaim, to show forth with persuasive Power the Words of Life, and it is they who shall cause EVERYONE to worship our Lord on earth.

    Now it is pretty bloody obvious even to a dumbo like me, even though I have a tested sub-genuius IQ (like that really counts for anything), that the above situation is not yet extant and never has been, so it MUST logically be regarding something yet to come, yes?

    To increase the company is not a numbers game, it does not mean making more Saints, but making more OF the Saints!

    Let’s face it guys, are we trying to work out God or to work out our salvation with Him? Romans is a complete message from beginning to end, and it talks about those who knew God as God but did not acknowledge Him as such, such that God abandoned them to their desires.

    Either our DESIRE is the desire of the ages, Jesus, or it is the desire or the flesh. The message these days is to write your own script, determine your own destiny, CREATE YOUR OWN LIFE, your own reality, our own apostasy, your own religion, your own faith, your own reality even.

    Anyway Bones, whether I am simply being naive or screwed around by some malevolent spirit, or perhaps even being deceived by my own heart, The Lord of Heaven told me that it was “His Army, the Assyrians” who were behind what is happening.

    I have just been reading up on the Mormons – now there is a salutary lesson in delusion if ever there was one – Joseph Smith was a piece of work, and as for Brigham Young…

    The reason why I adopt a more visceral approach is that I have seen what can be done with facts and figures and making things fit. The Catholics are masters at this, but then so are we all betimes. As I have said, I heard “The Assyrians” so I will go with that for now as it witnessed with me as being from God.

    However, I will read study with your info in mind and ask about it more fully – we all have much to bring to the table and I do not dismiss arbitrarily anything lest I miss something of the Truth in what a brother is bringing.

    If Revelation is all about Nero and Rome then I guess we may as well just rip it out of the Bible. And if the prophets are fulfilled, then let us just not imagine that what they have said may be for now or the (near) future and let’s just suppose while we are at it that the resurrection has past already and is not yet to come – sorry bud, you cannot have it both ways.

    Jesus is the resurrection and the Life, and we may walk in the Power (Jesus is the Power of God) of that reality now, and we will rise in it when we put off the flesh. That is past, present and future, yes?

  19. “I have a tested sub-genuius IQ”

    (Something about the spelling of that is ironic but anyway)

    Hey it’s ok.

    All sorts of geniuses leave their brains at the door when it comes to reading the Bible.

    If you read the rest of Isaiah 10 it tells you who the remnant are.

    20 In that day the remnant of Israel, the survivors of the house of Jacob, will no longer rely on him who struck them down but will truly rely on the LORD, the Holy One of Israel. 21 A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob will return to the Mighty God. 22 Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous. 23 The Lord, the LORD Almighty, will carry out the destruction decreed upon the whole land. 24 Therefore, this is what the Lord, the LORD Almighty, says: “O my people who live in Zion, do not be afraid of the Assyrians, who beat you with a rod and lift up a club against you, as Egypt did. 25 Very soon my anger against you will end and my wrath will be directed to their destruction.” 26 The LORD Almighty will lash them with a whip, as when he struck down Midian at the rock of Oreb; and he will raise his staff over the waters, as he did in Egypt. 27 In that day their burden will be lifted from your shoulders, their yoke from your neck; the yoke will be broken because you have grown so fat. 28 They enter Aiath; they pass through Migron; they store supplies at Micmash. 29 They go over the pass, and say, “We will camp overnight at Geba.” Ramah trembles; Gibeah of Saul flees. 30 Cry out, O Daughter of Gallim! Listen, O Laishah! Poor Anathoth! 31 Madmenah is in flight; the people of Gebim take cover. 32 This day they will halt at Nob; they will shake their fist at the mount of the Daughter of Zion, at the hill of Jerusalem. 33 See, the Lord, the LORD Almighty, will lop off the boughs with great power. The lofty trees will be felled, the tall ones will be brought low. 34 He will cut down the forest thickets with an ax; Lebanon will fall before the Mighty One.

    In the Old Testament the remnant are the survivors of captivity. The remnant will return from captivity and exile.

    In the New Testament, Paul quoted (Romans 9:25-33) from Hosea and from Isaiah and reinterpreted the remnant motif. The remnant who are ‘saved’ for Paul through faith in Christ. To the other Jews Christ and the Law become a stumbling block and a rock of offence.

    As much as you would like the AntiChrist to be the Pope, Prince Charles or Barak Obama, Revelation is about Nero and Rome.

    Disappointing isn’t it.

  20. OK, I deserved that and pride comes before a fall. In my preteen childhood I was a troubled lad, so they sent me to see a shrink to see why I was sad – he said I was very intelligent, introspective and maybe they should test my parents and my eyes. I was found to have an astigmatism, and with corrective lens fitted, zoomed ahead and soon was top of my class in many subjects. My mother was later registrar at the local high school and and between her and the head could not work out why I had the highest IQ out of nearly 1000 students yet was so troublesome.

    It was not until I really met Jesus that the world began to make sense to me and life began to have meaning. In a way, we are all myopic and need the corrective lens of Christ Jesus – to see with His eyes and to think with His mind.

    But Bones, if Isaiah can be about two time frames and two events and or groups of people, then why cannot Revelation also be a now and then deal?

    Oh well, so the “Spirit” which told me that we were in the time frame of the consummation of the Revelation of Jesus as given by John must have been either delusion or confusion, yes? But what if it is you who have misapprehended, has this thought actually occurred to you? Have you actually explored the options? More is the point, have you asked Jesus to explain Revelation to you and to open it up? Or have you “worked it out” like theologians are want to do?

    I am actually quite lazy, work being the curse of the thinking class! I have found that by having an inner discourse with the Teacher, I get directed to the answers rather than find them through ceaseless learning – for there is no end to knowledge and to learning – so I have learned to simply ask He who knows all.

    If you follow the His gleanings, you will be less likely to follow your own leanings. Drink waters from your own well and eat the food of your own storehouse. There will be a key in Revelation which will so confute the historicist theory, of this I am sure.

    In fact, just thinking about it, there are many – like how do you dove-tail the multi-nation confederracy of the Beast? OH that’s right, it must be the Roman Empire – well HELLO, what the hell do you think we live in, if not the Romish Empire? We are coming to the culmination (cull my nation?) of the Roman Empire, which consumed the three before it and is all of them combined, aka Babylon, aka Assyria. Its all Babylon baby, and the “Church” is the strength of it, but the REMNANT carries the message of the salvation of all who come out of her.

    There is the WHORE, Babylon, and the BRIDE, New Jerusalem.

    Revelation 22:7. ” ‘And, behold, I am coming soon.’ Blessed is the one who upholds the manifestations of the prophesy of this book.” SO, is Jesus here already, setting up Hi kingdom on earth? No, that is the PAPISTS and the PENTES!

    I have always approached Revelation with especial reverence, with fear and trembling even, due to the last few lines of chapter 22, which I am sure as you have such a grasp on what Revelation is about and do speak as one having authority.

    18. “I am witnessing to everyone who hears the manifestations of prophesy of this book. If a human being augments (adds to) their [message,] God will bring over them the plagues that are written of in this book.
    19. “And if a human being reduces from the manifestations of this book of prophesy, God will reduce their share of the Tree of Life, and of that holy city, these that are written of in this book.”
    20. Says the one who witnesses to these, “Indeed, I am coming soon! Amen.”
    Come, Lord Jesus!

    Well, has He come already? Did I miss something? And I do not mean in esoteric sense, I mean as in this same Jesus, or has the resurrection already happened?

    Come Lord Jesus!

    There is a fascinating sky this morning, it never ceases to amaze me that people do not look up and see the obvious.

  21. The question is if the biblical authors are able to take verses out of context and apply their own meaning then surely we can too?

    Right?

    Ummm no.

    The New Testament writers had a goal to refer to the mission and person of Jesus back to the Old Testament. In their Jewish world they had to show that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Testament and remember they were Jews as well, writing to predominately Jewish audiences using texts that Jews would know.

    Paul even tried to show that the gentile altar to the ‘Unknown God’ was Jesus.

    That does not mean that we can apply our own interpretations carte blanche over the Old Testament in our quest for hidden secrets.

    The Orthodox have it spot on with Revelation. They don’t read it out in church as it is a book which requires an understanding of the author’s world to understand what he is saying. It’s also a decidedly dangerous book with it’s militaristic overtones and war between believers and non-believers.

    Also the Jesus in Revelation is not the Jesus of the gospels and is anti-Paul and parts of it are clearly uninspired and downright heretical.

    It’s place in the canon was extremely tenuous.

    It also leads Christians up the garden path looking for conspiracy theories and alternative understandings as to what the heck the symbols in John are about. It’s also the book of the cults.

    It is however a book which gives hope to Christians enduring persecution which is the context of John’s world. Persecution by Jews and Romans.

    Good luck with that key to the Revelation of John.

    You’ll find it with El Dorado and Lassiter’s Gold.

    If there is a key to the Revelation of John it is in studying the metaphors, genre and context of John the Seer’s time.

  22. “”””As much as you would like the AntiChrist to be the Pope, Prince Charles or Barak Obama, Revelation is about Nero and Rome.

    Disappointing isn’t it.””””

    The ONE indicated specifically by a name with 3 sixes (Rev 13:18), and speaking “ex Cathedra” (2Th 2:4) from Rome (Rev 17:9 ). Fulfilled in Pope Sixtus III, whose name was literally 666, translated from Latin being “Sixth III” in English, and whose 7+ year reign fulfilled 40 prophecies concerning the coming of the Antichrist, including half-way through his rule, an Abomination of Desolation (December 25th 167 BC = December 25th 435 AD), a promise of peace with the Jews followed by betrayal (Theodosian II Codex), control of all buying and selling in the world , sign of miraculous fire from heaven [The “Holy Fire”] in Jerusalem (Rev 13:13 ), an “Image” (Idol) of Apollyon for which he demanded worship (Rev.9:11), a sudden death from spiritual causes (2Th 2:8), and astronomical confirmation in the heavens (Rev 13:1). The odds of just ten of these prophecies fulfilled in any other person are zero to the 13th decimal. So why is his identity “hidden”, avoided, and denied, despite his unmistakable name and fulfillment of prophecy? “Christ-Mass”. He also instituted Idolatry and the worship of Apollyon as the Christ-Idol, December 25th, 435 CE. And his Solar-Mass to Apollyon now called a “Christ-Mass” is “the reason for their treason”.

    http://www.freewebs.com/christmaslie/dictionary.htm#544168407

  23. “It also leads Christians up the garden path looking for conspiracy theories and alternative understandings as to what the heck the symbols in John are about. It’s also the book of the cults.”

    And here is Exhibit A. Thanks EYES.

    Lol. That’s a funny site EYES.

    Diid you see it puts Evangelicals in league with Pro Nazi Mormons and Pro Nazi Lutherans and describes them all as Devil worshippers?

    http://www.christmasisalie.com/articles.htm#858641050

    Pretty funny stuff.

    Seig Heil you Satan lover.

    Some people need to get out more.

    (btw the information from the site is complete drivel – love the fire effects though, very dramatic. Celebrate Christmas and you will burn in hell)

  24. Christmas (Wikipedia – see it isn’t hard to check ‘facts’)

    Date of celebration

    Irenaeus (c. 130–202) viewed Christ’s conception as March 25 in association with the Passion, with the nativity nine months after on December 25.[85] Hippolytus of Rome (170–235) may also have identified December 25 for the birth of Jesus and March 25 for the conception.[7][86] Sextus Julius Africanus (c.160 – c.240) identified December 25, later to become the most widely accepted date of celebration, as the date Jesus’ birth in 221.[87] The precise origin of assigning December 25 to the birth of Jesus is unclear.[87] Various dates were speculated: May 20, April 18 or 19, March 25, January 2, November 17 or 20.[7][88] When celebration on a particular date began, January 6 prevailed at least in the East;[89] but, except among Armenians (the Armenian Apostolic Church and the Armenian Catholic Church), who continue to celebrate the birth on January 6, December 25 eventually won acceptance everywhere.[88]

    The New Testament Gospel of Luke may indirectly give the date as December for the birth of Jesus, with the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy with John the Baptist cited by John Chrysostom (c. 386) as a date for the Annunciation.[7][20][90][91] Tertullian (d. 220) did not mention Christmas as a major feast day in the Church of Roman Africa.[7] In Chronographai, a reference work published in 221, Sextus Julius Africanus suggested that Jesus was conceived on the spring equinox.[92][93] The equinox was March 25 on the Roman calendar, so this implied a birth in December.[94]

    The birth of Jesus was announced in Luke 2:11, “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.” Moreover, the belief that God came into the world in the form of man to atone for the sins of humanity is considered to be the primary purpose in celebrating Christmas.[95][96][97]

    In the early 4th century, the church calendar in Rome contained Christmas on December 25 and other holidays placed on solar dates. According to Hijmans[98] “It is cosmic symbolism…which inspired the Church leadership in Rome to elect the southern solstice, December 25, as the birthday of Christ, and the northern solstice as that of John the Baptist, supplemented by the equinoxes as their respective dates of conception.” Usener[99] and others[100] proposed that the Christians chose this day because it was the Roman feast celebrating the birthday of Sol Invictus. Modern scholar S.E. Hijmans, however, states that “While they were aware that pagans called this day the ‘birthday’ of Sol Invictus, this did not concern them and it did not play any role in their choice of date for Christmas.”[98]

    Around the year 386 John Chrysostom delivered a sermon in Antioch in favour of adopting the 25 December celebration also in the East, since, he said, the conception of Jesus (Luke 1:26) had been announced during the sixth month of Elisabeth’s pregnancy with John the Baptist (Luke 1:10–13), which he dated from the duties Zacharias performed on the Day of Atonement during the seventh month of the Hebrew calendar Ethanim or Tishri (Lev. 16:29, 1 Kings 8:2) which falls from late September to early October.[7] That shepherds watched the flocks by night in the fields in the winter time is supported by the phrase “frost by night” in Genesis 31:38–40. A special group known as the shepherds of Migdal Eder (Gen. 35:19–21, Micah 4:8) watched the flocks by night year round pastured for Temple Sacrifice near Bethlehem.[90][101]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

    So EYES you don’t have to be Scrooge at Christmas. You won’t go to hell for celebrating the birth of our Saviour and loving others even though that may seem like a Satanic plot like the JWs say.

  25. The son of the living God was not born on the 25th of December and the blond hair blue eyed Jesus is likened to the sun god,-The destroyer, or angel of the bottomless pit; the same as Apollyon and Asmodeus. And the papacy has changed the ten commandments and the Sabbath and made up a birthday for Christ just to suit you Bones.
    Are birthdays just another PAGAN TRADITION?
    Christ is still Lord but there are copy cats.
    Bones, do you pray to the Madonna ?

  26. It’s a shame when Christians fall for the same arguments atheists use to demonise their own beliefs.

    No one knows when Jesus was born but to the early Christians it was important especially the longer that Jesus tarried. So they came up with a date which has nothing to do with any of the pantheon of gods. Far from copying the pagan festivities, Christmas was a time of fasting for Christians, a solemn time to remember that the Light has come into the world.

    Interestingly, the oldest known portrait of Jesus, found in Syria and dated to about 235, shows him as a beardless young man of authoritative and dignified bearing. He is depicted dressed in the style of a young philosopher, with close-cropped hair and wearing a tunic and pallium – signs of good breeding in Greco-Roman society. From this, it is evident that some early Christians paid no heed to the historical context of Jesus being a Jew and visualised him solely in terms of their own social context, as a quasi-heroic figure, without supernatural attributes such as a halo.

    If you go to African churches, you’ll see Jesus crucified as a black man.

    Truth be known though, every Christmas Day I cavort in my birthday suit throughout the neighbourhood seeking virgins to sacrifice and defile to the Sun god or whatever nutbag gods you named.

    The Jesus thing is just a ruse.

    I mean it’s not like His birth is worth celebrating.

  27. I’m wondering if anyone has read the original post and would like to comment on it? Ian may have touched on it, but I dont think anyone else has.

    Anyone else think its a strange co-incidence or do you think theres nothing to see here, move along. ?

  28. Wazza,
    Wolves sniff well.
    It’s just ironic that dogs are being used to sniff out terrorism,when the Wolf(……………………….) is the terrorist.

    And also,Catholic Frogs bark like dogs.

  29. Also the Madrid bombings.

    Could be acting on intel.

    There were warnings of the London bombings. Who knows what warnings there were of the others.

    They do have the perps in custody from Boston, Bali as well as video tapes from the London bombers.

  30. Well if they were acting on credible intelligence, why not say so instead of claiming it was just an exercise? Especially after the attack itself?

    They may indeed have the perps in custody, but they may be patsys.

  31. “I have a tested sub-genuius IQ”

    Well my IQ ain’t that well pronounced.
    So when I heard Ian say,“I have a tested sub-genuius IQ”,I raced down to my local Sub-Way and asked if I could please have a test of the new Foot-Long IQ Sub.And the waitress said in a presumptuous manner,”I do no think that you can do a Foot-Long”.And I replied in all honesty,”I think that I could do at leased an 8 “.
    “I know what we can do”,the waitress spoke firmly,with an asserting opinion.”We’ll do a 6 inch,stuff it full of beef and mayo,shove it in the sandwich maker,then roll it out a bit and then it should do 8,how does that sound?”
    Then I said,”Better then average”.

  32. Maybe that was the question to you. The Bible is a microscope and a macroscope, a magnifying glass and a looking glass. it looks back and forward, and it contains something of eternity.

    Ought we to take what Paul wrote in Corinthians concerning the redemption of temple prostitutes as being for then or equally for now?

    Given the number of “temple prostitutes” there are today, I would warrant not.

    Should we dismiss the Reveal-ation of Jesus Christ as being inspired just because it does not fit our theology? I think not – it is redolent with anointing to me and not at all like the Apocrypha or the Gnostic texts, let alone utter garbage like the Book of Moron-I.

    Has Jesus come back yet as it proclaims He will? Did I miss something?

    The Orthodox folk have so many things so right, yet they seem to venerate icons, which to me is idolatry. We all of us have our blind-spots, which is why we need each other, and especially the Holy Spirit to watch our backs.

    The translation I predominantly use is the VA Aramaic, the translator of which has no qualms about Revelation being inspired. To dismiss it as having to been viewed in the context of the time in which it was given is to me utter nonsense if it is from the heart of God – does 1 Cor 11 not pertain to us today? Of course it does. Does it stop us from having haughty head held high women and cowered cowards in churches (which is what it is actually speaking of re “head coverings”)? So the scripture is relevant to this time as that, as Jezebel is still in the house,and still proud.

    Speaking of whom, since she died and was eaten by dogs, and then reappears in Revelation, we know that Jezebel is a spirit and not a person (actually the feminine form of Satan, and ironically, Jezebel means chaste; in other words she controls mean by usually with-holding or occasionally granting sexual favors). Do the Seven letters pertain as much, if not more today as then?

    Vic Alexander says this of Revelation – it is quite revelatory:

    “Translating Revelation from the original Aramaic was one of the greatest experiences of my life. The Book of Revelation is one of my wife’s favorites. She urged me to study it because of it’s intriguing references to the Apocalypse. However, I found out quickly as I began to translate it, that it was not about the end of the world so much as an index to the whole Bible. It was to be sure, Jesus Christ’s Revelation of the whole mystery of the universe to John in a magnificent vision. It is a spiritual history of every essential event that has ever occurred, that is occurring now and that will occur to the end of time. The greatest and central part of Revelation deals with Jesus Christ’s ministry on earth, his crucifixion and resurrection.”

    It was given to Paul to reveal the role of Christ in the Old and the New and the relationship of the Law to Grace and the superiority of the NEW COVENANT – and it especially fell to John, the Apostle of Love, to reveal the mystery of the Love of God made manifest in Jesus Christ, the Mystery of the Ages, Christ in us.

    John explained that the NEW COVENANT was actually the OLD or original intention of God and predated the Law.

    Jesus said “I Am the Alap and the Tau, the first and the last – THE INTENTION AND THE CONSUMMATION. This is what has largely escaped the Church of the West with the concept that unless we get saved we got to hell and why people fall for the plethora of Masonic type (Temple building) cults which repackage the Truth of our origins in God and festoon the World and Christendom with their creations.

    I remembered while contemplating Romans that Paul referred not to people who did not know God as God, but they who did and yet rejected Him as Creator, hence they wanted to become as gods, and “created” their own reality, their own existence and experience, so God abandoned them to their ways.

    The remnant are they which do not reject God as Creator, and whose will is submitted to Him, and like Jesus they have forsaken being in the image of God and are happy to assume the image of a slave or servant – they have seen through the temptation of the Serpent to be as gods and instead want to be as God’s. How significant an apostrophe can be, yes?

    The remnant do not fight against God or oppose Him by rejecting Him of His. John gave us the litmus test for Love – do we say that we love God yet hate our brother who is made in His image? Are we not then in darkness still?

    It falls to us to work out our salvation and a man’s works shall be tried as by fire, so no matter what we believe we do in His Name, the consuming (and consummating) fire, or passion of God will have the final say – and if you do not enter by the door, then you enter by the fire, which is the predominant situation, as many enter in by destruction.

    The attraction of the distraction in trying to work out God rather than working out your salvation is so we may position ourselves comfortably close to the fire for warmth but not for immolation. We want the benefits and assurance of salvation but do we want to be circumcised in heart and so converted?

    Of this Paul wrote, “I am not there yet, but I am getting there” It took Paul a long time to mature and when the Apostles really “got it” then they got it – shop, chop! But John alone lived longest, why? He kind of got it all along – or at least that is what I believe Jesus intimated, and that is why He wrote the Gospel of Love, while Paul wrote the Gospel of Faith and Peter the Gospel of Hope, but the greatest of these is LOVE.

    I am used to handling Gold, Silver and Precious Gems – I know the real from the fake, and there is a lot more Bijoux and Faux adornment than there is the real thing, and I am not afraid to call a CZ (Christian Zionism) a CZ and when I see works which are fakes presented as the real thing I will speak out, yet I can love the persons so snared and pray for them as God leads, but I cannot, should not nor will not try to prevent them from their appointment at the pig-sty, for there is a sin which is unto death, and I say not that you should pray for it…

    The Big World Wide Pig Sty Experience is coming folks – its the end of the Age. Nero will be a puissant push over compared to the Beast but we cannot say we have not been warned. Unless of course you are Kingdom Now, Dominionist, Historicist etc, and have 21 books in your NT instead of 22. Funny how the 22nd book of the NT has 22 chapters with chapter 22 having 21 verses, yes? And the last thing it warns is not to mess with it….Himmmmmm…..

  33. Those bombings and other crappola going on are all scripted – that is why you are surrounded by images generated by the same sick people – you are in a play people and you are being played with.

    And Bones, sometimes you say some really dumb things – the gravel amongst the Gold so-to-speak.

    The ANTICHRIST ONLY APPEARS IN 1 JOHN 4 – not in Revelation, that is THE BEAST. Got it? And you do not need a University Degree to make that mistake. So, do we now rip out 1 John too? Really dumb chum, and you think my spelling error is amusing? I think your exegesis of Revelation stinks, but that is just my opinion.

    You guys have been eating way to many SUBS – as in SUBStitutes for the Bread which truly satisfies. LOL. No matter how high or low our IQ’s are what is actually important is our EQ, our empathy quotient.

    By the way, the Antichrist is “He which denies or prevents the manifestation of Jesus in the flesh”. This is commonly considered to be those spirits which will not say that Jesus came in the flesh, which does not make sense, and I have even been told we can use this to test whether spirits are demonic or angelic – utter nonsense – the demons do believe and they TREMBLE at His appearing and the called Him the Son of God to His face!

    The Antichrist spirit is that which stands in the place of God making itself to be God and opposing all that is God – and so opposes and prevents the manifestation of God – it stops you from becoming converted! OOPS, better rip out Thessalonians too!

    Most Xians I know are actively ANTICHRIST and do not realize it – they talk a big game but they deny Jesus an “All Areas Pass” – and yes, I include myself in that assessment, for even though I see the Mark, I know that I am not “there” yet and that there is till some surgery to come, and some removing of that which offends (prevents Jesus from total possession of His prize).

  34. “For they are of they world, and the world hears (heeds) them…

    If you really want to identify false prophets, it is simple; the world heeds them.

    So now think of all the church leaders you know of whom the world approves of…scarey, huh? The Dalai Lama, Billy Graham, Norman Vincent Peale, The Pope, The Archbishop of Canter-bury…

  35. By the way, if you are wondering who is coordinating the antichrist mob, it is Satan, that is why you cannot work out how conspiracies work out – that same spirit of antichrist is working in a LOT OF PEOPLE folks! But even more so, God is bringing all things to their consummation in Him, for He has promised to renew all things, both in heaven and in the earth, from the Head, which is Christ. Are you getting the message yet? ALL THINGS.

  36. Here is some synchronicity to contemplate. About 2yrs ago, I asked Head Office Heaven about where the next CHCH centered EQ would happen. The that came word was “Kairos Street”.

    Knowing a smattering of koine Greek, it really got my attention. Also, about that time, the number 333 kept cropping up. I asked as to this and I heard “John’s Gospel”. Look it up – John 3:33.

    Early this morning, a tremor occurred mere meters from Kairos St, as have many others in the last two yrs – the address on the plot was 333B Worsley’s Road – but wait – it gets worserer! (sic),

    A number of the shakes have been at addresses given as being 333 ( there are a number of long roads in the area are semi-rural and the number 333 keeps cropping, which hear connotes 3.33kms from the beginning of the road so the Fire Service knows how far they have to go to attend a blaze).

    Kairos Street is crossed by Khloros Way. Now all you Greek scholars should stand to attention at that – as in “A chloros (khlorus) horse…

    8. And I looked and, behold, a [pale] greenish horse, and the one seated on it, his name is Death, and the netherworld clings to (follows after) him. And he has been given authority over a quarter of the earth, to kill by the sword and by famine and by death and by carnivorous creatures of the earth.

    So, if you have not resorted to ripping Revelation (and 1 John) out of your Bibles, and we have a shake and a cough, well…

  37. Well, if every exercise carried out by security agencies produced the same outcome wazza might have a point, but clearly this is not the case.

    Bones, of course, continues hammering out his theological error on the Revelation of Jesus in the hope that it might catch on, but, having now joined the Eastern Orthodox Church online, he only needs a funny hat and uniform and he’ll become a full blown EOC priest. Einstein wouldn’t approve.

    Who knows what Ian is saying? A high IQ doesn’t mean much if you don’t know how to apply it.

    Wisdom isn’t based on IQ, but on knowing the will of God. It’s the Spirit of God within us Who reveals the touts and ways of God and makes known His will to us. It’s not a matter of intelligence, since we can lean on His intellect by knowing the mind of Christ. That’s how Jesus’ disciples, some of whom were unlearned men, some fishermen no less, we’re able to confound the earthly wisdom of the worldly by preaching the foolishness of the cross.

    I’m sure Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens have or had pretty high IQs, but they still managed to speak out against God as if their own intelligence quota, knowledge of certain disciplines, and vocabulary were enough to make them an expert on the Invisible God, who only makes Himself known to those who diligently seek Him.

    Ian is right about one essential thing, though. The antichrist appears in scripture in other Books besides the Revelation of Jesus. The antichrist is already at work, according to Paul and John.

    Bones, once again, uses an unconnected tragedy to attack those who adhere to the substance of the Word. His gospel is so tainted I am surprised he even bothers to own a Bible. It must annoy him no end to have to read through things he cannot possibly beleive. His is the message of the antichrist who is determined to discredit the Scripture in any possible way.

    No wonder he denies the existence of the antichrist, the devil, the opposer of God.

    2 Corinthians 4:3-4
    But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

  38. Steve, I know it is not about IQ, but rather EQ, but being slandered I felt compelled to defend my dignity – not very well it would seem. God still uses intellects submitted to him and many of the greatest minds have succumbed to Him and submitted to His will after realizing just how inadequate our minds are compared to His.

    I must correct myself – the term antichrist or anti-messiah occurs 4 times, all of which are in the letters of John – so I was nearly right. In Revelation we are introduced to the first and the second Beast, which are humans possessed by the Devil himself and his “son” – as a parody of God the Father and Jesus, and of course Jezebel is in the mix too…

    Antichrist refers to a spirit, and it could be argued that the manifestation of the over-arching antichrist spirit of the age is in fact one and the same as John related in his works and that the son of perdition and the man of sin are all one and the same devilish dynamic.

    But it is actually a bit more involved than that. God will draw out Leviathan with a hook, He shall expose the man of sin, the son of perdition, whom He shall destroy with the brightness of His appearing. This is speaking of the (your) old flesh/sin nature, the one which pretends to be god, speaking as God. The major purpose of the Bible is to expose our inner condition and to resolve the conflict between flesh and Spirit by destroying the power of the flesh and bringing it into subjection to the Spirit.

    In these times, there is so much deception, so much opinion, so much apostasy, so much heresy – it is getting increasingly difficult to divide ‘what is’ by sheer inquiry – if we cannot hear from the Lord we will be largely lost in confusion as the days grow darker. The remnant not only have to witness Christ, but they have the witness of Christ, and it is this witness which must be the determiner of what is right and what is wrong, of what is SPIRIT and what is flesh.

    I found some things today about a “minister” who I used to greatly admire and follow, which confirmed to me why I had largely rejected his message, yet on more than one occasion I had occasion to pray for him and saw remarkable results. I must conclude that if God is going to save all, and if He is in all, then if we are to judge them according to the flesh rather than to reject their works of the flesh then we make the same mistake, perhaps worse.

    Without the Love of God shed abroad in our hearts and the anointing of God in our lives and upon our “ministry” we are NOTHING but a sounding brass or a clanging symbol (sic).

    We can”know all”, yet not “know Him”, and so be nothing.

    We are all of us vessels after one manner or another – some to dishonor, some to honor. Whenever we discern a brother in sin, we ought to consider ourselves, lest we also fall…

    Unto Him who is able to present us ALL spotless….0(:->)

  39. His is the message of the antichrist who is determined to discredit the Scripture in any possible way.

    I think a lot of Christians have done a great job of discrediting Revelation and the Bible using their own ego and intuition to espouse all sorts of nonsense like they had some divine secret.

    We don’t need a satan. We’ve got Christians doing his job instead.

  40. If god had not made the Devil, man would have become his own “Devil”. I have met only one demonized person who really spun me out such that I had no answer (then) for such a profound manifestation of sheer evil, and he was a visiting diplomat from Belgium who is now an very powerful Eurocrat.

    Yet when he tried to frighten a mere slip of a back-slid Xian girl (a prostitute no less), she rapidly repented and cried out in her heart to Jesus for help and he got nailed – even the antichrist mob know deep down that they are screwed and that they are simply buying time with their souls….

    Bones, I have no antipathy toward you or anyone on this forum – ‘cos I am constantly confronted by the knowledge of Christ when He said to me, “Ian, when you have truly laid down your life, you will look up to everyone.”

    What, even an evil Belg-ian? Yes, because if you have truly ceased from your labors to enter in to rest, and have truly laid down your life, then you have really worked it out…

    I press on toward the Mark of my high calling in Christ, who is my Life, and who fulfills me ever more daily, until the Day of the Lord when the Day Star rises in our hearts and our circumcision, our conversion, is completed in Him.

    I have found for my part that being born anew is not so much an ‘event’ of salvation as a process of conversion, from glory to glory.

  41. I do not need to fight, but rather to resist, for Jesus has already won the Victory, and this is the Victory, it is even out faith (in Him). But if, or however we resist Jesus, then we are being as antichrists. The whole message of John’s letters is the manifestation of God’s LOVE, and what denies it, antilove.

  42. If you say that you love God, but hate your brother, then you, that is YOU, are of ALL MEN, most deceived.

    For they knew God as God but rejected Him as Creator of their lives, but preferred their own opinions…Lord deliver us from our opinions…0(:->)

  43. Bones,
    We don’t need a satan.

    That’s a rather silly statement. John makes it clear there are antichrist spirits at work in the world. Whether you understand them or even believe they exist is of no real consequence. Your denial, however, puts you on the wrong side of error, according to John.

    1 John 4:1-6
    My loved ones, do not put your faith in every spirit, but put them to the test, to see if they are from God:because a great number of false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you may have knowledge of the Spirit of God:every spirit which says that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit which does not say this is not from God:this is the spirit of Antichrist, of which you have had word; and it is in the world even now. You are of God, my little children, and you have overcome them because he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world, so their talk is the world’s talk, and the world gives ear to them. We are of God:he who has the knowledge of God gives ear to us; he who is not of God does not give ear to us. By this we may see which is the true spirit, and which is the spirit of error.

    I don’t see how you can claim to have overcome antichrist spirits if they have convinced you they don’t exist.

  44. every spirit which says that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God

    Docetism was a very real heresy in the early church especially around the first century. The idea that Jesus appeared human but didn’t really have a human body. It was strange to imagine a god really becoming flesh and submitting to death on a cross, so some Christians described Jesus as “appearing” to be human flesh. The name “docetic” comes from the Greek δοκέω (dokeo), meaning to “appear” or “seem.” It appealed to the Jewish mindest which looked upon God as utterly transcendent.

    This is what John is refuting as antichrist ie against Christ.

  45. Nice try, but it doesn’t fit with the previous verses.

    1 John 2:22-23
    Who is false but he who says that Jesus is not the Christ? He is the Antichrist who has no belief in the Father or the Son. He who has no belief in the Son has not the Father: he who makes clear his belief in the Son has the Father.

  46. Docetism, the name I was not familiar with (thanks Bones) but the concept I was aware of – however I think that the deeper issue John is addressing herein is much more significant than just addressing a heresy.
    I admire scholars their scholarliness – I am way too lazy for that much work. At times I have heard things from God concerning the Aramaic language which have flabbergasted a world authority on the matter, and God gave me the key to string theory in a vision and I did not even realize it until having delivered the vision to a theoretical physicist in a Kairos time God appointment one Sunday morning about 12yrs ago.

    God is way bigger than one heresy and John is addressing not I think one issue but a plethora, which all hinge upon NOT Docetism, but LOVELESSNESS – the false messiahs or messengers who say that they love God but they hate their brother – you know, like Obama and Cameron and those “thorns”!

    Damn some of you guys are slow. Now be a good boy and take your Gos-pill. GGRRRR….the Kiwi’s in a flap! You see IT IS ONLY THE ANOINTING IN YOU WHICH MAY TRULY TEACH YOU! The Bible says so. A “teacher is to teach you to connect to THE TEACHER.

    I am going to dig a deep well, but it is my well, but you might dig it too? We’ll see shall we? LOL.

    18. Children, this is the last Age, and like the thing that you have heard, that there is a false messiah (or christ), and now they have many false messiahs, and because of that we know that it is the last Age.
    19. They emerged from us, except they were not of us, for if they were from us, they would have clung to us; however, they emerged from us so that it would be obvious that they were not of us.
    20. And you have been anointed by the holy [Spirit,] and you know Him to be different from (not like) every other man.
    21. I did not write you that you do not know the Truth, except so that you may know Him and [that you may know that] no falsehood can ever originate from Him.

    Now focus…..

    22. Who is the liar? Except for the one who blasphemes THAT JESUS WAS NOT THE ANOINTED ONE, and here is the false Messiah, [for] whoever blasphemes against the Father, also blasphemes against the Son.

    Did you get that? He does not say denies that Jesus had a flesh and bone body, he says denies or blasphemes – very important word – it also means to contradict, to prevent, that HE WAS THE ANOINTED ONE OF GOD.

    Read on blithe spirit…

    23. And whoever blasphemes against the Son, neither do they believe in the Father. Whoever profess the Son, also profess the Father.

    I need to pause here to compare Paul in Timothy saying “If we blaspheme Him, which means to contradict, or to deny or prevent, He will deny us – but He denies us by continuing to speak the Truth in Love over us – He “blasphemes” or contradicts us (same word) with the Truth, for He is THE TRUTH and He cannot deny Himself! Get it?

    If you deny Him before Man, He will deny you before the Father. How? By presenting you as spotless! Shall I repeat that again or did you get it first time? He presents us spotless before the Father, and He denies our works which contradict or prevent Him – they are not allowed before the Father – they are satanic – adversarial, but I am getting ahead of myself. IF our works are from God we may bring them into the Light to see that they be of or from God.

    So to do the opposite and profess Him is more than simply saying yes to Jesus coming in the flesh, it has a much deeper meaning in Him coming in our flesh – in Him actually entering us and that is what the antichrist spirit seeks to prevent so that for some it might be, “Get out of My face, for I never entered you!”

    The spirit which prevents Christ is antichrist – the man of sin revealed by the son of perdition whom the Lord shall destroy by the brightness of His appearing. The thing which prevents Him, and which stands in the temple of God presenting itself to be as God – and ye shall be gods – knowing something other than Christ – is this making sense? – I am cramming a lot of info into a small space.

    You see Bones is right in the sense that you don’t need a devil to be devilish, and I would add that the devil is there to be the end of the line of devilment. The spirit of Leviathan in Man is from the Serpent, from the father of lies, this is what will be drawn out in the last days with a hook.

    In the deeper sense, to profess is to manifest – the opposite of denying or preventing, it is to actually put on Christ. Have you ever had the experience of seeing someone transform into Jesus? I have. It straightens your day out. It means to actually demonstrate Christ – TO PUT HIM ON – to MANIFEST HIM! Jesus COME IN THE FLESH.

    24. And you, the thing you heard from old shall be strengthened in you. But if the thing you heard from old is strengthened in you, also you shall be strengthened in the Father and the Son.
    25. And this is the promise that promises us eternal Life.
    26. But these [things] I write you because of those that would mislead you.
    27. And you also, if the anointing is upon you, that which you received from Him, are not in need of any human [being] to teach you, except as the anointing that came from God, that teaches you everything and that is [all] sincere and without [any] falsehood, and as you learned, cling to Him.
    28. And now, children, cling to Him, so that whatever transpires, you are not separated from Him, except that we may [stand] openly when [Jesus] comes.
    29. If you know that He is Holy, also know that whoever performs righteousness is from Him.

    Now with the above information in mind and harmonizing with Paul, consider the ramifications of Jesus come in the flesh in the deeper sense of denial and contradiction PREVENTING HIM from being made manifest in the flesh. Get it? MY Father and I shall come and abide with you. So to deny (that) Jesus Christ come in the flesh, is to contradict Him.

    Now these things were written for our instruction, that we may not err likewise – this is not simply an historical document written for another time to be viewed in the context and texture of the time it was written, and God can make it as relevant now as then, even more so. To limit God in the ministration of His Word to Historical data is a little presumptuous to say the least and patently ridiculous. It is as current today as the day it was written and God will reveal His Truth to those who diligently seek it. Is this making sense to you? History is great for architecture, but you have to live texture, to experience it.

    To profess is the opposite of to deny – get it? You will.

    It may appear to be convoluted logic but trying to explain a revelation is actually not that easy at times, consider John re the Revelation of Jesus Christ! Facts are not revelations, but revelations contain verifiable facts that will witness with some and mean nothing to others.

    1. [My] beloved, do not believe all spirits, except choose between them to see if they are from God. Because there emerged many false prophets from the world.
    2. In this way you will know the Spirits of God. Every spirit that professes that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, is from God.
    3. And every spirit that does not profess that Jesus came in the flesh is not from God, except this is of the false messiah, whom you have heard will come, and now he is in the world already.
    4. But you came from God His children, and shall conquer them, since He is Supreme who is in you, greater than the one who is in the world.
    5. And these who are from the world, because of that they speak of the world, and people listen to them.
    6. But we who are from God and the one who knows God hears us and the one who is not born of God does not hear us. By this then we learn about the Spirit of Truth and the spirit of oblivion.
    7. [My] beloved, love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves, is born from God and knows God.
    8. Because God is love, and whoever loves not, knows not God.

    In the modern context, these who are of the world, so the world listens to them, are they who curry favor with the world rather than confront it with the Truth – they are the friends of the world – they wear the Christian (or other) religious garb and know the words and the principles but it is missing something – a key critical element of LOVE.

    Why are the men in the pulpits of America who have the ear of America not confronting the murderous mobsters of mammon in New York and Washington? They do not want to lose their tax exempt little protection racket disguised as Christianity! And the answer is no the Mormons taking over either, as much as they would like to and nearly did recently. Shudder. They went out from us because they were not of us.

    That nearly half of those who bothered to vote could actually countenance returning a devout Mormon is very disturbing, if you know what they are after and what they have done to achieve that, but I digress.

    Back to Paul.

    1. We beg you, brethren, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and His gathering us to Him,
    2. That you may not be shaken in your convictions, and not be disturbed in your minds, neither through manifestation, nor spirit, nor by a letter as though from us, that, behold, the Day of our Lord is never going to come.
    3. Let no human being mislead you with one of these schemes, because the desolation has to come first, when the man of sin is revealed by the son of perdition,

    And the Sons of God came before God, and Satan was amongst them…you cannot come before God with the spirit of the adversary (still) in you, or you will get told to “Get out of My face Satan, or adversary, for you savor NOT of the things of God, but of the things of MAN – ergo, Humanism is Satanism, ergo what John is addressing in the modern sense would to me be loveless, graceless, humanistic “religion” which speaks of and to the world and which is acceptable to the world and the world hears and heeds it and it will rain Hellfire (cause fire to fall from the sky) on innocent people.

    Are you getting it now? It is a big concept but He is a BIG GOD and His Word is alive, both in my heart and between those pages.

    It is no mere historical document, wash your mouth out Bones if you dare say such a thing – you need meat, not bones, bones are for dogs to chew on.

    0(:->)

  47. In old times the Sons of God came before God and Satan was amongst them. They were of their father the devil having a mixed lineage so to speak. The Breath of God in them but the nature of the serpent of old working and resident in their flesh.

    Now days the Only Begotten Son comes before the Father for us, our advocate, our intercessor, our coverer, so that we may repent and become converted and CHANGED INTO THAT SAME IMAGE THAT HE PRESENTS OF US BEFORE THE FATHER – TO BE TRANSFORMED BY GRACE so He may present us and our works to The Father in confidence – that they may abide with us and in us and manifest through us to touch the world through our hands and reach the world with our words begotten of them.

    Its the fruit folks, you cannot fake the fruit of The Spirit, cos it is HIS and not yours, just like you need the FAITH OF or which is in JESUS. It is the faith OF Jesus working in you which does the trick! Your faith in Him is reciprocal.

    Gee I love this stuff! It is liberating but confronting too.

  48. Gee I love this stuff! It is liberating but confronting too.

    I can’t be bothered reading your long winded comments Ian, so I can only assume that you are commenting here on your wearing of your wifes undewear?

  49. 1 John 2:22-23
    Who is false but he who says that Jesus is not the Christ? He is the Antichrist who has no belief in the Father or the Son. He who has no belief in the Son has not the Father: he who makes clear his belief in the Son has the Father.

    Actually fits perfect.

    Those who deny Jesus as messiah are heretical like the Docetists. They too are against (anti) Christ.

    What John has done of course is slam the door on the Jews.

  50. It actually says ‘no belief in the Father or the Son’.

    He also says if you have no belief in the Son, you have no belief in the Father, which ends it for Islam right there.

  51. John”s emphatic that Jews are anti (against) Christ.

    Your verse says so.

    It’s weird how fundamentalists worship Israel when the Bible condemns it.

  52. “Its the fruit folks, you cannot fake the fruit of The Spirit”

    Can you answer this question? Steve couldn’t.

    If a community or person, (Christian or non-Christian) exhibits the fruits of the Spirit then we must say that the Spirit of Christ is among them.

    Eg a Muslim.

  53. “He also says if you have no belief in the Son, you have no belief in the Father, which ends it for Islam right there.”

    And for Jews.

    Islam believes Jesus was a prophet. I don’t even think Jews accept that Jesus was a prophet.

  54. It’s a facetious question, Bones, which I did answer by reminding you that no one has the Spirit unless they have Christ.

    There are a number of reasons for this. Being the Biblical scholar you are, I expect you know them all.

    John 14:14-17
    If you will ask anything in my name, I will do it. If you love me, keep my commandments. I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever,– the Spirit of truth, whom the world can’t receive; for it doesn’t see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you.

    The world, the unsaved population, cannot receive the Spirit. Therefore they do not have the fruit of the Spirit.

    Again, as I told you before, they have been given a conscience by God, as all people have, and their conduct should, by conscience, reflect the qualities of the Spirit, but it doesn’t mean they have received the Spirit, for He comes by faith in Christ as the guarantee of the redemption of the body.

  55. Bones,
    It’s weird how fundamentalists worship Israel when the Bible condemns it.

    Hebrews 8:10
    “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days,” says the Lord; “I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people.”

    Ephesians 2:11-22
    “Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision,” (in the flesh, made by hands); that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

    But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who made both one, and broke down the middle wall of partition, having abolished in the flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace; and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, having killed the hostility thereby.

    He came and preached peace to you who were far off and to those who were near. For through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

    So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God, being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone; in whom the whole building, fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.”

    So God, through Christ, does not condemn Israel, but allows the Gentiles, who were previously alienated, into the fold. He grafts them in, with the expectation that Israel will also be drawn in.

    God has not rejected Israel, but included them in His covenant, if they receive Christ, as with all who come to Him in faith.

    Romans 11:1-2
    I ask then, Did God reject his people? May it never be! For I also am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God didn ‘t reject his people, which he foreknew.

    God made Israel hard of hearing, and dulled their understanding for a season, so that he could draft in the Gentiles.

    Romans 11:11-12
    I ask then, did they stumble that they might fall? May it never be! But by their fall salvation has come to the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy. Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?

    Not rejected.

  56. “”””If a community or person, (Christian or non-Christian) exhibits the fruits of the Spirit then we must say that the Spirit of Christ is among them.

    Eg a Muslim.””””

    Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!(Galatians 1)

    The Quran claims that Muhammad is God’s seal of prophethood, and therefore the last and final messenger to mankind:
    “Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.” S. 33:40

    Muslims further reason that since the Lord Jesus clearly stated that false prophets would come to deceive many, this strongly argues that there would be another true prophet to come after Christ. Had there been no more prophets after Christ, there would have been no need for Jesus to give a criterion to distinguish false prophets. Christ could have simply stated that there would be no more prophets at all. (Cf. Matthew 7:15-20; 24:23-26)

    The problem with such reasoning is that it completely ignores the entire context of the Holy Bible. For instance, the Lord Jesus states that God has given his personal seal of approval, backing up all of Christ’s words and deeds:

    “Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed HIS SEAL OF APPROVAL.” John 6:27
    This is reiterated elsewhere by the Lord:

    “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.” John 5:36-38
    “But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.” John 8:16-18

    “Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” John 10:36-38

    “Jesus answered: ‘Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, “Show us the Father”? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.’” John 14:9-11

  57. What we have here is an inability to answer a simple question and instead spout a whole heap of unrelated biblical texts which has nothing to do with the question.

    Of course if a non-Christian (Muslim, atheist or whatever) displays love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control, that is just being good and of the flesh.

    If a Christian does it, it’s of the Spirit.

  58. “1 John 2:22-23
    Who is false but he who says that Jesus is not the Christ? He is the Antichrist who has no belief in the Father or the Son. He who has no belief in the Son has not the Father: he who makes clear his belief in the Son has the Father.”

    Judaism generally views Jesus as one of a number of false messiahs who have appeared throughout history.[1] Jesus is viewed as having been the most influential, and consequently the most damaging, of all false messiahs.[2] However, since the mainstream Jewish belief is that the Messiah has not yet come and that the Messianic Age is not yet present, the total rejection of Jesus as either messiah or deity in Judaism has never been a central issue for Judaism. At the heart of Judaism are the Torah, its commandments, the Tanakh, and ethical monotheism such as in the Shema — all of which predated Jesus.

    Judaism has never accepted any of the claimed fulfillments of prophecy that Christianity attributes to Jesus. Judaism also forbids the worship of a person as a form of idolatry, since the central belief of Judaism is the absolute unity and singularity of God.[3][4] Jewish eschatology holds that the coming of the Messiah will be associated with a specific series of events that have not yet occurred, including the return of Jews to their homeland and the rebuilding of The Temple, a Messianic Age of peace[5] and understanding during which “the knowledge of God” fills the earth,[6] and since Jews believe that none of these events occurred during the lifetime of Jesus (nor have they occurred afterwards, except for the return of many Jews to their homeland in Israel), he is not a candidate for messiah.

    It’s perfectly clear that according to John, Jews are anti (against) Christ.

    Muslims give Jesus more honour than Jews do.

    But we must worship Israel.

  59. “The world, the unsaved population, cannot receive the Spirit. Therefore they do not have the fruit of the Spirit.”

    Nah, everyone has the Spirit inside of them. That’s one thing that Genesis shows that God’s breath, His Spirit gives us life and abides in us.

    Christians don’t own the Spirit.

  60. Now you’ve switched from Israel to Judaism, Bones. As usual, you are all over the place attempting to prove your totally works based salvation theology.

    The scripture presented to you was absolutely in context with what you were attempting to say, and refuted your theory that a person must have the Spirit if they do good works. God obviously disagrees with you, since he tells us that none is righteous, no, not one.

    You want to force your theory that a Muslim could be saved if they lived a good life. The same, then, could be said of a devout Jew. Paul, indeed, said that, according to the law, he was a very good Jew before he was apprehended by Christ.

    Paul, in his zeal to be a perfect Jew, doing all the right things according to the religious law of the day, and considering himself to be fervently working in the name of God, was selected for his Jewish holiness to put down this new faith in Christ Jesus. Paul was famed for his good works. He was a good man doing all he could to please God, and yet he called himslef, once he had been saved, the biggest of sinners because he persecuted Christ by pursuing Christians.

    Your theological stand on this is error. It cannot be sustained by Scripture.

    Salvation is through Christ alone. No man, apart from Christ, is capable of righteousness.

    ‘We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works’.

    ‘In Christ Jesus’. We have to be in Christ before the good works an begin. Without Christ we do not have the Spirit of Christ.

  61. If a gentile does by nature that which is required of the conscience then they become a law unto themselves – that is quite plain enough – having a conscience (the evidence of the inner temple and habitation of God behind the veil of the flesh) and His breath, then they have life and they have direction – for He is the ALAP – the BEGINNING, the INTENTION, the Genesis, and He is the consummation or the END. As in IT IS FINISHED – the OLD way is past, there is only ONE DOOR by which we may enter in or go out.

    The Aramaic states quite plainly that it is the fruit of the Spirit which belongs to Christ. There is that which appears to some to be the same but is really GOOD WORKS. Discerning good works from the works of the Faith of Jesus in us (abounding to others, as our cup runs over), is critical – otherwise you might think that GOOD works are the answer to EVIL not realizing that they are the FRUIT OF THE SAME GOOD/EVIL TREE.

    Now Greg, if you actually read through that post you might have learned that I am only interested in the Fruit of the Spirit, not the spirit of the fruits. Besides, my wife is an incredibly beautiful woman who is about 66.6% my mass – and he undies look much better on her than me. LOL.

    As for the Jewish people, they were a chosen people to bear the Promise – I asked God once why they were as they are and He said that none were more extreme in the zeal for God or their zeal for death – it had to be that way – that a people could be so earnest, so true and determined, that they would believe Jesus into existence, that they would be the door or entry way to THE DOOR – but would also be so extreme as to kill their own God!

    They were the archetypes of good and evil.

    The OT is all about GOOD & EVIL and the PROMISED REDEMPTION form the same. Good works are not the FRUIT which is of the Spirit, they are the works which are of the Law.

    God’s intention re Israel and the Nations is spelled out very plainly by Paul – that a certain blindness of heart has afflicted a PORTION of Israel until ALL THE NATIONS come in IN THEIR ENTIRETY, and the ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED. I did not write these words, God did through his apostolic prophet Paul.

    The Spirit of God warned me a while back that the Adversarial Aryan Nazis would cause the world to BLAME THE JEWS for everything and He warned me NOT to have any part with it. I have heard Xians say that the Jews and or Romans killed Jesus – BOLLOCKS – GOD KILLED HIM! For it PLEASED (fulfilled) God that he should offer up His OWN SON knowing full well what would happen, just as He put Adam in the garden and said, “Don’t…” knowing full well what would happen, and this is why He had a Lamb slain from before the worlds – for the INTENTION IS HIS!

    Now Eyes and Steve and others, may I offer you an insight? The Aramaic text of John 6:27 reads:

    27. “Do not work for the food that perishes, except [for] the food that [destines] you for eternal Life. The hand of the Son of Man will give [it to] you. For [upon] this has the Father placed the seal of God.”

    Kosher food had and has to be SEALED – approved – and Jesus is the only approved staff of Life – His “flesh” is LIFE.

    Only Jesus is the Kosher Bread of Life to His followers, and to those who hunger after HIS righteousness, not theirs….

    As for all the other stuff, it really does not matter so much WHAT you believe, but THAT you believe, and that you believe GOD IS. You can spend your whole life and soul believing bollocks and yet still have a degree of suck-cess – but it is all crap, all loss, unless it is of the Lord’s design, but if you have rejected God as Creator then he will abandon you to your own devices until you (or I) get sick of slopping with the pigs.

    One last point, just who is the God of this world, God or Satan? I have heard it said that Satan said that it was all his to do with as he pleases? And people actually believe his lies! It all belongs to Jesus, and in the OT sense, it all belonged to God, all the Cattle (people), all the Gold (wealth) – IT’S ALL GOD’S – but Man would rather believe a LIE!

    Now compare this text and see who the REAL GOD OF THIS WORLD OR AGE IS – there is only ONE GOD, who shall have no other God before Him!

    1. We should not be egotistical, because of this service that we have assumed, like someone was being merciful to us.
    2. Except we should cast off the cowl of shame and not go backwards (compare Isaiah 28) and we should not undercut the manifestation (word) of God, except in the openness of truth we should show ourselves to all eyes of humanity before God.
    3. And if our Revelation of God is eclipsed then, it is eclipsed only for those who are [headed] to oblivion.
    4. Those whom God has blinded their cognition in this world, because they did not believe, whereas the glorious light of the Revelation of Christ who is the image of God did not shine on them.
    5. For it was not about ourselves that we preach, except about the Christ Jesus our Lord, ourselves then, we are your servants because of Jesus.
    6. Because God is the One Who said, “Let the light shine out of the darkness,” He that shined in our hearts, that shined through the knowledge of God’s glory in the image of Jesus Christ.
    7. It is our duty to struggle then, as supremacy and the exercise of power is from God and not us.

    Now Greg, be a good chap and ask Jesus if you should read that exegesis of what it means to be antichrist, or opposed to Christ – there is actually some brilliant stuff in there.

    One last thing, if we lay down our lives such that we look up to everyone, then will indeed look “up” to everyone. Get it? That is why Jesus ascended HIGHER than all, for he first descended, so that HE may FILL (COMPLETE) ALL THINGS WITH HIMSELF. 0(:->)

  62. Bones, what you haven’t understood is that God hasn’t written off Israel. You switched to Judaism because it is rejected in the New Testament as being the letter of the law which kills. God’s will for Israel is that they will repent, which is why He sent His Son to Israel.

    The middle wall of partition between Israel, including Jews, and Greek has been removed, and now we can be one people, but Israel is not rejected. The Gentiles are accepted.

    You also say some things which are immature and tainted with malice, such as labelling people ‘worshippers of Israel’, which is childish talk. Being a supporter is quite different from worship. I support your right to know the truth, but this doesn’t mean that I worship you. God forbid!

    Your other statement, ‘Christians don’t own the Spirit’ is such flawed logic that I hesitate even to bother with it.

    The Spirit is of Christ. To receive the Spirit we must receive Christ.

    It is the same for Jew or Greek. We were not Christians before we received Christ, but after.

    If a Hindu receives Christ he becomes a Christian.

    If a Muslim receives Christ he becomes a Christian.

    They cannot serve two masters. They cannot have two faiths. They need to renounce their former life to receive Christ and the new life he offers.

    A Muslim, unless he receives Christ, cannot have the Spirit of Christ.

    It is the same for a Jew. He must receive Christ to become a Christian.

    In fact, it would be better to call them believers. They were called Christians because they were known to be followers of Christ.

    Followers! Those who go after.

  63. You also claim that everyone has the Spirit inside of them, which, again, is flawed theology.

    Our spirit was dead through sin. It was faith in Christ which revived it. We received the Spirit when we were born again, which why Jesus said we must be born again. ‘Must’! Imperative. Born again. Born from above. Born of the Spirit.

    You claim that the natural man has the Spirit, but the Word contradicts this.

    1 Corinthians 2:14
    Now the natural man does’t receive the things of God’s Spirit, for they are foolishness to him, and he can’ t know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    It is through faith in Christ that we receive the Spirit, as Jesus promised, which is why He is called the Promise of the Spirit.

    1 Corinthians 2:12
    But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that were freely given to us by God.

    We received the Spirit through faith in Christ. If we do not have the Spirit we are not His, as Paul told us.

    Romans 8:8-10
    Those who are in the flesh can’t please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his. If Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

    It is all summed up beautifully in Ephesians.

    Ephesians 2:1-10
    You were made alive when you were dead in transgressions and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, the spirit who now works in the children of disobedience; among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus; for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

    The spirit who works in the children of disobedience is the prince of the power of the air. That means the Holy Spirit is not in them. They are dead, spiritually. They cannot do the fruit of the Spirit.

    The only way they can be revived is through faith in Christ. They cannot do works good enough to please God. They ae of the wrong spirit.

    Doctrine 101.

  64. Finally, John is not singling out Jews.

    1 John 2:18
    Little children, these are the end times, and as you heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen. By this we know that it is the end times.

    There is an Antichrist, singular, who is coming. The are antichrists who have arisen. This isn’t singling out Jews or Judaism, but any spirit which denies Christ.

    Islam denies that their Allah can have a son. They deny the Father and the Son. If God is not, according to them, a Father, He cannot have a Son. They deny the Father and the Son.

    Calling Jesus a Prophet doesn’t cut it, any more that Judaism’s rejection of Jesus as the Christ.

    In fact, some Judaisers were prepared to accept Jesus as Messiah, as long as Jews also adopted the Mosaic Law, which was the issue raised in Galatians.

    According to your logic, their adoption of Jesus as Messiah with the proviso that Jewish Christians follow the Mosaic Law is acceptable because they accept Jesus as Messiah. Paul calls it a false gospel.

  65. Steve, I like to run the scriptures people quote past then Aramaic. largely as it has not be Hell-in-ized.

    Starting with Ephesians and 2 Cor 4:4, I hope here to dispel the Satanic lie that the Devil is the god of this world. When Satan told Jesus that the whole world was his to do with as he pleased, he was lying – God owns all the cattle (peoples) and gold (wealth) – for the earth and the FULLNESS thereof IS THE LORD’S.

    It is not ha Shatan who blinds, he binds, it is GOD who blinds, and that is why He spoke in parables such that seeing they would not see and hearing they would not hear…

    3. And if our Revelation of God is eclipsed then, it is eclipsed only for those who are [headed] to oblivion.
    4. Those whom God has blinded their cognition in this world, because they did not believe, whereas the glorious light of the Revelation of Christ who is the image of God did not shine on them.

    People are captured by Satan NOT at their or his will, but according God’s will, but that is difficult for most Xians to comprehend…or that God has combined ALL in common capitivity so that He may be merciful to ALL.

    Now as for the Prince of the Power of the Air – the devil was trying to steal one of the titles of Jesus for himself. Jesus is the HEAD of ALL Principality and all Power, both in heaven and in earth, to wit:

    3:10. So that the church would come to know the wisdom of God, full of diversity with respect to the thrones and powers of heaven,
    11. That which was destined from the foundation of the universe and its fulfillment through Jesus Christ, our Lord,

    1:19. And so that great power is magnified through us by our faith in him, according to His all consuming power.
    20. That He performed through Christ and raised him from the (house of the) dead and placed him from His right in heaven,
    21. Higher than all the thrones, authorities, powers and lordships, and higher than all the names that are ever praised, not only in this universe alone, except also in the future.

    The Devil has done a very good job of getting the Church to praise him and to present him as powerful but his domain is the flesh, but Jesus is the HEAD of ALL dominion.

    Ephesians 2
    1. Also to you who were dead in your sins and foolishness,
    2. As you walked in the ways of old, according to the worldliness of this universe, and according to the leaders of the earth’s governments*, in the spirit that compels Children to be heedless,
    3. According to the same practices that we also followed in the past through the lust of our flesh, and according to the flesh we did what we considered justifiable* and ended up being children of wrath like everybody else.
    4. God, however, who is rich in mercy, loved us because of His great love,
    5. Whereas we were dead in our sins, He gave us life with Christ and saved us by his grace,
    6. And He raised us with him and placed us in heaven through Jesus Christ,
    7. That He may show the universes that are coming the great riches of his grace and His fulfillment through Jesus Christ that descended upon us.
    8. For it was by Grace that he saved us through faith, and this was not of your doing, except the gift of God.
    9. Not through the performance [of deeds,] so that no human should be proud.
    10. For we are his creation, whereas we are born through Jesus Christ as works of grace, those by which from olden times God favored us.

    11. Because of that, remember that you people were in the beginning according to the flesh, and that you were called unto circumcision from uncircumcision, which is accomplished with hands of flesh.*
    12. And you were in that age without Christ, and you were foreigners of Israel,* and you were strangers to the covenant of the kingdom, and you had no hope and no god in the world.
    13. Now, however, through Jesus Christ, those of you who were outsiders* in the old times, have become kindred through the blood of Jesus Christ.
    14. For he is our peace, he who made two into one, and who united the knot of the old pair in equality,
    15. And [he resolved] the enmity in his flesh, and the Law of commandments he cancelled by his own commandment, so as he may rebuild both lines through his Triune essence into one new human being, and create peace,
    16. And so he may gaze upon both of them in one body with God, and so he may kill the enmity by his Cross,
    17. And so he may come and proffer peace upon you, to those who had wandered off and to those who had stayed near.
    18. Because through him we have kinship, both [lines of the Covenant] in one spirit toward the Father.
    19. Henceforth, you are neither outsiders, nor migrants, except you are inhabitants of the saints’ towns, and the children of the house of God.
    20. And so you may build upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, and he is the cornerstone* of the building, Jesus Christ himself.
    21. And by him is administered the entire structure and through him is the holy temple raised by the Lord,
    22. While you are also utilized to fortify God’s building* in spirit.
    __________
    *2:2 Lit. Ar. idiomatic figure of speech retained: Secular leaderships that do not accept Jesus Christ as Lord and God.
    *2:3 Lit. Ar. id.: “According to conscience.”
    *2:11 To understand the significance of the Cross (a concept lost to Western theologians,) there has to be opposition of the two paths, the one branch suspended horizontally in the air, the symbol of the Spirit, anchored by the vertical branch that is buried in the ground, symbol of the world. The horizontal branch cannot stand without the vertical branch, or else the cross loses its significance and purpose. Thus accordingly without opposition, Christianity cannot exist.
    *2:12 Continuing reference to the symbol of the Cross.
    *2:13 Lit. Ar. idiomatic figure of speech: “Distanced.”
    *2:20 Lit. Ar. id.: “Head of corner.”
    *2:22 Lit. Ar. id.: “Construct.”

    Now the really interesting part is that our weapons are not of the flesh, and our power is not by the arm of the flesh, for we do not wrestle with flesh and blood but with the Powers and the Principalities of heaven – the trouble is you guys have been listening to dissonance for so long you cannot hear the harmony of the scriptures…and so you believe a lie…and blame the Devil.

  66. Oh and Steve, I am still scratching my head as to how you get EPH 2 as being about Jew and Greek made one…let a,one how you figured that Satan was the God of this world…but someone CONvinced me of that once upo a time too, and yes I used to fight the Principalities and Powers, until I found out that they were my WEAPONS and not my enemy and that I had believed a lie of the devil. Its kind of like buying Brooklyn Bridge – when most Xians get saved, the first thing that happens is the devil tries to sell them the kingdom, and it is all downhill from there…

  67. Ian, I don’t care for your Aramaic translation, which you actually produce in English! The New Testament came down to us in Greek, which was the prevailing written language of the time.

    All translations for the texts are consistent on the points I have presented.

    Satan is indeed called the god of this world, the prince of the power of the air. I have provided scrture for this.

    As to the bringing together of Jew and Gentile at the cross, there is no doubt Christ has achieved this.

    The middle wall of partition between Jew and Greek was the Mosaic Law, which excluded the Gentiles, or nations, called Greeks, meaning all others but Israel, God’s chosen people. When the Law was fulfilled, the partition was removed, the curtain ripped in two, and the way made clear for all to come to him. Read carefully:

    Ephesians 2:11-16
    Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision,” (in the flesh, made by hands); that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who made both one, and broke down the middle wall of partition, having abolished in the flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace; and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, having killed the hostility thereby.

    That is very clear.

  68. 1 John is clear that Judaism is anti (against) Christ echoing of course Jesus’s words in John “You are of your father, the devil”.

    But let’s pick on Muslims instead.

  69. Ian,
    I used to fight the Principalities and Powers, until I found out that they were my WEAPONS and not my enemy and that I had believed a lie of the devil.

    Ephesians 6:10-12
    Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world’s rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

    There are principalities and powers which are opposed to Christ and therefore us. The armour of God is what we put on the withstand the enemy’s wiles. The enemy is named as principalities, powers, the world’s rulers of this age, and spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places. They are not flesh and blood, therefore they are not human governments or systems.

    God also has hierarchies of angelic hosts, and these are also principalities and powers who minister on behalf of the saints.

    It would be disastrous to confuse the two or eliminate either as entities which can influence our journey in Christ.

  70. “They cannot do works good enough to please God.”

    Ah yes. Because if you don’t please God then….

    Loving, being faithful, being joyful, patience, kindness, self control, goodness don’t please God unless you’re a Christian.

    It’s all disgusting works.

    So if Jesus walked into a community which exhibited those traits He wouldn’t be impressed. They’d seek to kill Him and He’d wipe His feet of them.

    There’s something pretty f**ked with our theology when we think that.

    Btw was Paul a good Jew? Is it loving and kind to stone those who disagree with your theology?

    Of course if we view salvation as the who’s in and out club then no one who’s not part of our club can have anything to do with God.

  71. Bones,
    But let’s pick on Muslims instead.

    Bones, that’s a dumb accusation you made. I actually used Paul, a Jew, and Judaisers as my main examples. I also mentioned Hindus. You can add any religion you want. It’s all the same. Add pagans, Zoroastrianism, whatsoever.

    The fact is, though, that Islam cannot accept Christ as the Son of God, and therefore deny God as a Father, which is considered antichrist by John.

    But you could single out most religions in a similar way.

    It doesn’t matter because they all come under the title of Gentiles.

    Israel and Gentiles were brought under one at the cross. Jesus removed the middle partition, as shown on this thread at least twice.

    God did not reject Israel. He brought them together as one with Gentiles in Christ.

    The thing is that they have to come to Christ by faith regardless of whether they are Israel or Gentiles.

    Your feigned indignation is a joke.

    But, as a universalist, I thought you’d celebrate the Ephesians 2 verses I put up, not cry over them.

  72. “Your other statement, ‘Christians don’t own the Spirit’ is such flawed logic that I hesitate even to bother with it.”

    Yes, you despise all others who aren’t part of your club. God’s Spirit has only been around for 2000 years being active only in people’s lives firstly in the Mediterranean then gradually spreading out over the centuries with Spirit being carried hither and thither like the Toronto Blessing.

    It’s clear that the Spirit acts in people anywhere and at anytime. Not just in your church at 9:30am on a Sunday.

    I fail to see how you can love people when you basically think they’re trash, good for burning unless they have the right ideology.

  73. Judaism preached a false gospel which Paul called anathema.

    God is not against Israel. He has put, as it were, a veil over their eyes so they cannot see, but even they, when they heard the gospel were saved in Peter’s day, because the gospel went first to Jerusalem and then to the nations, as Jesus said it would. The Jews were the first to convert.

    Your latest ad hominem accusations are bitter and divisive. I hate no one. I tell the truth as it is revealed in scripture.

    Your false indignation leads you to deny Scripture and sell a soft tissue paper version of the gospel which denies almost all truth.

    Your works based doctrine is poison. It denies Christ, the cross, the resurrection, the Spirit of Truth, the need for repentance, grace, God’s Word, and everything Biblical of any substance.

  74. Get over yourself. How could I advocate a works based doctrine if I believe that ALL will be with God?

    Nob!

    “God is not against Israel”

    Neither is God against the human race as you claim.

    Actually your interpretation of the Gospel means the cross was irrelevant and vanity to the billions who don’t believe.

  75. Sheesh! I think you’re having a conversation with the voices in your head again, because I’ve never said God is against the human race. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    You really do have these imaginary arguments with someone else in between comments I make, because it’s not me.

    You are definitely the one who said people who were doing good works had the Spirit. I merely showed from Scripture this could not be the case, but you have summarily dismissed all Scripture from this thread and carried on like a pork chop pushing your false ideas of how people can be saved without the gospel.

    If people are not saved through faith in Christ, how are they saved if not by good works, according to you?

  76. Steve, the trans of Ephesians in the Aramaic is so much more on the money – and Paul tells us plainly that the weapons of our warfare are NOT of the flesh. We are an army of resistance in one sense, while being Ambassadors of a Kingdom at the same time. I am trying to tell you that the conventional understanding of Ephesian 6, and indeed much of Ephesians, has been twisted by twisted workers, you know, like some of the scholars Bones quotes from – you have your pooh peddlers too sunshine – as do we all – except to you they accord with your thinking, and so we derive to ourselves teachers and leaders (examples and guides) after our own hearts and minds. But if we have the MIND OF CHRIST, as Paul said that we do, or at least should realize that we are supposed to, then we see things from His perspective from the heavenly instead of from the earthly perspective.

    Please consider 2 Cor 10 in harmony with Eph 6.

    3. For even though we walk in the flesh, except we do not do our work through the flesh.
    4. For the excellence of our work is not through the flesh, except by the power of God, and through it we capture the entrenched conquests (our self-sabotage and failure mechanisms, our defeats).
    5. And we unravel pretensions and every greatness that rises against the knowledge of God, and we lay open all our senses to obeying Christ.

    10. Therefore, brethren, be strengthened in our Lord and in the instrument (sWord) of His power.
    11. And take on all the armaments of God, so as you may be able to stand against the craftiness of the devil.
    12. Because you wrestle not with flesh and blood, except with the thrones and powers and the subjugation of this world of darkness, and with evil spirits under the sky.
    13. That is why you should take on all the armaments of God, so that you can fight against evil, and as you are destined for everything, you shall rise again.

    Now Ephesians is a book of VICTORY – it is all about the Victory which is in and to be had in the Faith of Jesus. It tells us all about who actually has the thrones and powers of heaven at HIS COMMAND and His name is not SATAN, it is JESUS!!!!!!

    This is so hard to get to grips with as you like so many have been CONvinced that the DEVIL is so powerful – sorry, he is most certainly NOT, but I would not bring a reviling accusation against him either – he performs a very important function – if it were not so, then God (remember Him?) would not have created him. OK? If he needs rebuking that is God’s place, but we can resist evil and fight against it. Most of the reason the world is in the state it is in in fact a mass prodigality type situation, and it is about to be sty time for the many…

    The Devil, or Antichrist is GRANTED his power by those who ought to be Kings and Priests – they will be conned out of it. The only power the enemy has it what is yielded to him by those who ought to know better.

    He is the vengeance of God – the Book says so, but he is also an angel and also in subjection to God. Jesus has given the Church ALL AUTHORITY – but the Church has largely rescinded the same for gain and a 501C exemption status or similar, and so they are of the world, and the world heeds them…and the Nicolaitan hirelings teach lies and encourage blasphemy, poseur Pharisees preventing people from entering in…

    The weapons of our warring are not of the flesh, for we wrestle NOT with (the arm of the) flesh or (the strength of the) blood – our Power is the Powers and Principalities of heaven which are owned and operated by Jesus – He is the HEAD of ALL Principality and ALL Power – get it? The evil spirits are under subjugation to this world of darkness, they are UNDER the sky, and Jesus sits in the heavens far above ALL P&P. Its all about whether you are seated together with Him, which is what he says that we are…its called faith….it is even our victory…

    The Devil has fooled most of Christendom with this one. The real enemy is MAN – as Bones rightly identifies, and the Spirit of Christ is pre-existent in all mankind and all who draw breath, from the beginning – that is just how it is, but that SEED needs to be quickened out of its “death” to Newness of Life. You were saved form the foundation of the worlds – Calvin had it partly right, but this is EVERYONE – Christ is the LIFE GIVING SPIRIT given for all men, especially those who believe. For ALL died in HIM and ALL were resurrected to Newness of Life – He is the INTENTION and He is the CONSUMMATION. Selah!

  77. “I’ve never said God is against the human race. Quite the opposite, in fact.”

    Oh really! So you’ve repented of using the Lake of Fire as a pit God’s going to burn most of the human race. Good to see. Maybe you can learn.

    “If people are not saved through faith in Christ, how are they saved if not by good works, according to you?”

    Christ died once, for ALL.

    The question is what are they saved from?

    (ergo did Jesus die to save us from Himself?)

  78. The Aramaic version is not reliable if it doesn’t conform to Greek translations which are recognised, and your conspiracy theories are not helpful, Ian.

    As I said, there are Principalities and Powers which are of God, and those of darkness. A third of the angels rebelled and were cast out of God’s presence.

    We are not wrestling with flesh and blood, but with enemy spirits.

  79. God is against sin, Bones. If people choose to die in their sin they have chosen separation. They cannot enter eternity in sin. Jesus died to release captives and his blood was shed for the remission of sin. He condemns no one. We condemn no one. Those who reject Christ and continue in darkness condemn themselves.

    We are saved by grace through faith. There is no other way. There is no other name under heaven by which a man can be saved but the name of Jesus, who said we must be born again. The only way to be born again is through the incorruptible Word of God.

    Any rational person reading this will see straightaway that your argument is not with me, but with God Himself, because you struggle so much with the Word. You agonise over Scripture because you cannot reconcile your own need for a God who sees things your way with a God who does things His Way.

    You have created a false doctrine not only for yourself, but for those you argue with. You add things which we do not say, and claim things which we do not speak.

    Discussing anything with you is like trying to pull thick treacle off a feather with a hammer.

  80. By the way, what do you think Jesus meant by the following:

    Matthew 7:13-14
    “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it. How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.”

    The way is narrow and few will find it. Yet you say it is broad and all will go through.

    It seems that some of Jesus’ harder sayings are too much for universalists.

    Jesus is the narrow gate. He is the door. No one gets in but by the door.

    John 10:9
    I am the door. If anyone enters in by me, he will be saved, and will go in and go out, and will find pasture.

    Jesus is the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. There is no other way to the Father but through the Son. He says, ‘if anyone enters’. ‘If’. Which implies a condition. Which states an option. Which determines a means.

    He died once and for all, but not all will believe.

    That is the bottom line. Faith.

    Hebrews 11:6
    Without faith it is impossible to be well pleasing to him, for he who comes to God must believe that he exists, and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him.

    That is why we are sent into the world to preach the gospel, because without a preacher no one can hear, and if no one hears no one can be saved.

    Romans 10:13-14
    For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in him whom they have not heard? How will they hear without a preacher?

  81. Any rational person reading this will see straightaway that your argument is not with me, but with God Himself

    What Steve. Can’t bring yourself to say that Jesus died to save us from God’s wrath.

    At least the Reformed and Calvinist are honest, no matter how idolatrous their belief. Their god is openly aggressive against humans and can do what it wants.

    People don’t condemn or consign themselves to Hell. Someone greater does that.

    Steve’s day of judgement (where people condemn themselves)

    Non-believer: Oooohh a lake of fire. I might just jump in because I am so unworthy.

    Catholic Dude: Yeah Steve was right. I think I’ll go jump in this here never ending lake of fire. Hail Mary!

    Muslim Dude: Salaam. Oh Jesus wasn’t a prophet. I shall therefore remove my shoes and willingly jump into this lake of fire to burn for eternity because that’s what I deserve.

    Aboriginal dude pre-1788: Who’s Jesus? Dunno but I better jump into this lake of fire because of my sins whatever they are. That’s what I desrve.

    Muslim Baby: I’m such a sinner that I might jump in too.

    Jesus (looking on helplessly as God hates sin and sinners): Hey not you. You’re ok. you’re too young to sin.

  82. “I’ve never said God is against the human race. Quite the opposite, in fact.”

    Is God against some, lets see,

    Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

    Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
    Rev 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
    Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

    1. The follow a “Saint” named Nicolas
    2. Claimed to be “followers of Christ”, i.e., “Christians” or “Messianic” or “Jewish” [whatever the New Testament community actually was].
    3. They also claimed to be “the real Christians”, and those “against them” the “false ones” (as there is admittedly a division here)
    4. They are from/in Ephesus [Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write;]
    5. And Pergamos [Rev 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write;]
    6. They knowingly lie about being the “Successors” of the “Apostles” [Rev 2:2 …and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: ]
    7. There are called “intentional liars” in more than one place, so it is appearant they practiced a “doctrine” of Utilitarian deceit [Rev 2:2 …and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: ]
    8. The Ephesians were told they would have to “overcome them” in order to “eat” from the “Tree of Life”
    [Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.]
    9. The “Tree of Life”is a reference to Genesis 3 – The “Tree of knowledge of good and evil”,
    10. The “serpent”, the Egyptian serpent of enlightenment, and it’s serpent god “Ra” (the sun).
    11. They rejected the authority of “scripture” or the “voice of God” [Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.]
    12. The “real Christ” is said to hate their doctrine and their “deeds”, so too obviously they hated the “doctrine” and the “deeds” of the “real Christ”, as demonstrated by the antithesis.
    13. They observed Rome’s pagan celebration of “Saturnalia” (Dec.25th)
    14. They accepted Rome’s practice of Pedophilia (Sex with children)

    http://www.freewebs.com/christmaslie/dictionary.htm#542730473

  83. What makes you think Jesus was talking about eternal destruction? Are you now an annihilationist? Gone off hell and eternal suffering have we?

    The consequence of sin is death. That’s who Jesus paid the ransom to.

    Who says that Jesus is saying He is the way to heaven?

    That’s an implication which isn’t in the text.

    What is the Way of Jesus?

    Love God, love your neighbour love yourself.

    Act justly, love mercy, walk humbly with your God.

    Deny yourself. Put the last first. Love and forgive your enemies.

    Then you will be lights set on a hill, the salt of the earth.

  84. God is against sin. People he loves. If people sin they rebel against God. If they reject the means by which God saves them they condemn themselves.

    John 3:17-21
    “For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and doesn ‘t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

    The NKJV says ‘condemns’ where the WEB uses ‘judges’.

    A person who rejects Christ judges or condemns himself.

    The key here is belief in Christ.

    They are not judging themselves on the day of judgement. They have already been condemned by their unbelief.

  85. Bones,
    Who says that Jesus is saying He is the way to heaven?

    He says he is the Way to the Father. He says he is going to the Father.

    Where is he? Seated at the right hand of the Father. Where is the Father?

    Gosh! This is like talking to a three year old.

  86. Most of that nonsense from Revelation 2 is made up.

    Very little is known of the Nicolaitians. There is hardly any evidence of this sect outside of Revelation 2 so your site has made a lot of that sh!t up.

  87. Finally Steve can almost bring himself to say that Jesus condemns people to hell.

    So the evangelical position is that Jesus died to save us from Himself.

    That’s rational.

  88. You’re not even making sense, Bones.

    I can only conclude that you’re not actually a believer or these things would be simple for you to understand.

  89. ””Finally Steve can almost bring himself to say that Jesus condemns people to hell.””

    16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.(John 3)

    In v 17, the word ‘condemn’ stands reverse to the word ‘save’.
    At the time of Christ on Earth,he brings forth an invitation for deliverance from judgement to all who will call upon his name and receive it.
    Now God is slow to anger,but he will not put up with man forever.
    So the invitation still stands but the final judgment is inevitable for those who refuse his invite.
    So Christ did not come to condemn the world at that time,
    But what do you think that his second coming will bring?

  90. Hey Steve, have you actually looked into the Aramaic Bible at all or do you simply dismiss it based on the scholarship of others, as Bones seems to with The Revelation of Jesus Christ, the 22nd book of the New Testament (which commences with Romans)?

    That may be a brickbat to Bones but here is a bouquet at the end of this too. 0(:->)

    Question Steve – is the Devil, aka Satan, God of this world or is Jesus?

    When man fell his nature became Satanic, or ADVERSARIAL to GOD. Man’s descent into the darkness of Mammon (gain) worship and the madness of opposing God progressed until the time of Noah, and then to Jesus, and thence to now, which are even as the days of Noah.

    True there are Satanic principalities – I have encountered at least two of them personally, along with many different demons and some Angels too, and God once allowed me to sense the presence of the prince of darkness, and it was not Ozzie Oz-born.

    But what pray tell was Paul telling us when He said that JESUS is the HEAD of ALL PRINCIPALITY and ALL POWER, both in the HEAVENS and in the EARTH? I mean, that is pretty conclusive, yes? How much “power” has the devil got except that which is granted him by people or allowed by God?

    So, do you believe that your parents had a little mud-man called Steve and you wandered in darkness until the Light came and you magically began to exist, otherwise you were headed for the mythical Norse house of the dead called hel? Or was it the Mediterranean manifestation of the same?

    When God breathed His breath of Life into Adam, was this the Christ Spirit or not? IF you say not then you sir are in that Hell-in-ized Catholic delusion, along with so many others, and it is really works righteousness dressed up as faith that you largely espouse. It is about CONSCIOUSNESS, as in AWAKE to righteousness!

    So, after Adam there was not he Breath of Life, (the Life giving Spirit) which indwelt Man? Where does the conscience come from then? The conscience alone is the evidence of the Christ Life hid in the heart of Mankind, waiting to be revealed, and revived if you will. Your parents only made your body and provided aspects of soul and personality – God breathed His Life into your ‘dirty’ body and made it alive. The flesh has no real life of its own – it is even death made manifest – it is the Life of Christ within, the Life of the Tree which is in the heart of the garden which is thee, but the crust, the outer man, is the tree of knowledge of good and evil – it is an allegory of humanity.

    Instead of trying to defend your position so stoically, why not simple ask Jesus (the real one) if it be so? As Paul said:

    3. And if our Revelation of God is eclipsed then, it is eclipsed only for those who are [headed] to oblivion.
    4. Those whom God has blinded their cognition in this world, because they did not believe, whereas the glorious light of the Revelation of Christ who is the image of God did not shine on them.
    5. For it was not about ourselves that we preach, except about the Christ Jesus our Lord, ourselves then, we are your servants because of Jesus.

    Broad is the WAY TO OBLIVION and MANY THERE ARE WHO ENTER IN THEREBY. Few enter by the NARROW WAY, which is LIFE but MOST enter in by DESTRUCTION – not enter in TO destruction, but BY DESTRUCTION – as in “Give his body up to Satan so that his SPIRIT might be saved in the Day (light) of the Lord.” As in EVERY MAN’S WORKS shall be tried, those works which are birthed in the conscience, birthed in Christ, will remain, that which is of the earth shall be consumed, YET AS BY FIRE.

    When God “asked” Cain where was his brother, Cain said, “Well, you’d know, you are his keeper.” We read “Am I my brother’s keeper?” and miss the idiom, that Cain was kind of saying, “Don’t ask stupid questions, you know full well where he is and what I did with him – I sacrificed him because you preferred his sacrifice!” And then what did God do? He marked Cain such that no man would harm him!

    Do you guys “get” God at all? Bones does to a great degree, as He is astute enough to know that we could never serve a God who would cast His children into a fiery furnace, and even if one were to, there would be one like unto the Son of Man in there with them! The only thing the Devil is the father of is LIES. Every prodigal will return to the Father, every knee will bow, every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord, the glory of the father.

    My God is big enough to SAVE and to RENEW ALL, is yours?

    You are NOT your brother’s keeper, God is, and salvation is a blessing, which the Western Church has made into a burden.

  91. It is JESUS who qualifies us, and the Holy Spirit which equips us for Salvation, not us, and no man comes to God unless it is GOD (Father) who first calls him. Rescuers are preventers – they get between God and Man – and this is largely what religion encourages people to become, victim rescuers, playing at being god, knowing the good and the evil. It is not our job to SAVE the world, the world is already saved, it falls to us to put on Christ and be a witness for the defense, not a prosecutor, judge or jailer.

    As an messenger sent from God told me about 30yrs ago, “You really do not understand the New Birth, but you will.”

    Don’t you know that you must be born (that your Genesis is) from ABOVE? Where else could you have come from? Oz?

  92. By the way Steve, why do you think so many Xians believe that there is a “Jewish” of Zionist Cabal which conspires against Christendom with the eventual aim of destroying it and inheriting the whole world and each Jew having over 2000 Goy slaves?

    Perhaps we should ask the Jews why they believe Christendom is a Jewish (Pauline) conspiracy against and designed to supplant Zion and why they consider Islam to be brothers, and you know how families are yes? Just ask Cain and Able.

    Catholicism invented cut and paste beliefs, and patches upon patches, but what you, I, we all need a whole NEW operating system – its called the Kingdom – its called putting on Christ.

    The over-arching Jewish position is that Christianity is a Pauline Conspiracy, and that it is their God given duty to ultimately destroy it. This derives from Leviathan, the Serpent of Old, the religious Spirit, which the old time Orthodox Jews, is one of the three elemental spirits which rule this world for now and which are in essence their foes and it is given to them to fight against them until their Messiah comes to destroy them and that they shall live off the substance of these “creatures” and rule a new world, with just enough Goys to provide each their contingent of slaves. Now is that twisted or what?

    There are wheels, within wheels within wheels, there are shifting allegiances and convenient accidents, vis Willem-Alexander and Friso. We are only one World War from a World Government (WW1 – League of Nations, WW2 – UN, WW3-?). Logically, the UN will morph into a new identity, the British, European, American Sionist Tyranny.

    Trouble is that the plethora of people involved and the complexities of the issues create the ideal smoke screen for the “Wizard of Oz” who manipulates the Muppets of Mammon.

    The ultimate holocaust, the ultimate offering to their god would be to offer up the whole world, even to destroy God’s Creation. Or have you forgotten that to oppose God can only connote the madness of rebellion, which is as the sin of witchcraft? Now, I suppose that you will also try and tell me that there is no such things as satanic sacrifice, blood drinking, satanic orgies etc?

    There are such practices happening right under our noses – and there are innocent people in prisons to pay for the crimes of others, they too being sacrifices – and then there is the sacrificial slaughter houses called abortion “Clinics”…

    But it is men and women who have allowed these terrible things to happen, and Christians have been largely powerless to prevent it as their gospel has been mingled with apostasy and vomit. There are things coming which will spin you out – terrible things – the KAIROS moment for the KHLOROS HORSE will be soon upon us, at least that is what believe God has told and shown me – so we will see, yes?

    I still see a time when NZ and OZ will be as one and will team up at a World Cup – probably 2015 – which is about when I think Britain will be destroyed by seven plagues and a war will erupt in Europe and the Middle East. We are living on borrowed time – God will not withhold for much longer – he showed me that the bowls of wrath are full to overflowing and how that it is man who is filling them up with wrath by judgment for the day of judgment, and that day is coming, and it is sooner than you think.

  93. A Jewish belief is that the world is ruled by Leviathan, Ziz and Behemoth – Religion, Government and Commerce, and that they have to dominate them (sin lies at the door and its desire shall be for you but you should rule over it).

    This is why, when all is said and done, the Jews largely and successfully dominate all three – they dominate sin by sheer will and tenacity and zeal and the gifts God gave to them.

    Now what God said to Cain (about sin lying at the door – its in Genesis – in your book) echoed what He said to the Woman – that her desire would be for her husband but that he would rule over her – so the relationship of fallen Man to fallen Woman is mirrored in the criminality of Cain and his relationship to sin.

    Leviathan means to join, to twist, to lend salvation. God has promised to draw out Leviathan, the in-sin-uating spirit,with a hook, and this is mirrored in the Maori legend or myth of Maui, hooking the fish (the North Island of NZ) out of the sea, from his boat, the South Island, the Whaka of Maui.

    This is connected to why the Elites, Aristocrats and Technocrats want to re-develop this little South Pacific Paradise for themselves and their slaves, but God told me will divide all who seek to divide this nation for spoil, and they shall have their portion with the hypocrites in the lake of fire, yet they too shall be saved, so as by fire…

    I feel Jesus is saying, that this is the last age, and their are many false messiahs, many who come in My Name saying that I Am the Christ, and they deceive many. This is why it is so important to have your heart and mind fixed on Him and why it is so critical to comprehend how you would hear from God if all communication is denied to you.

    I have a Taoist friend who hears God more clearly than most Xians I know, and I have tested this too – so Bones is right on that score – God can talk to anyone and is in everyone. My friend rang me recently and gave me a message from the Man – it was bang on – then The Man told him that his redemption was drawing near and that he should call me and ask what that meant. When I told him, he got it.

    He has had a series of disturbing dreams about this Pope – that he really is an OK kind of guy deep done, but that he is also a Judas type character and that the Devil will enter him and that the Pope is simply another vessel as ordained by God and that he must do what he must – as in “Go and do what you must.”

  94. Stuff and nonsense, Ian. The prince of this world is judged. Are you saying Jesus is judged

    John 16:7-11
    Nevertheless I tell you the truth:It is to your advantage that I go away, for if I don ‘t go away, the Counselor won’ t come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. When he has come, he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment; about sin, because they don ‘t believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to my Father, and you won’ t see me any more; about judgment, because the prince of this world has been judged.

  95. I think that you misunderstand me – I said JESUS is HEAD of ALL PRINCIPALITY and ALL POWER, both in heaven and in the earth.

    The world is a system, not a place, just so as we are talking about the same thing. So too is the kingdom – and the kingdom of God rules the Princes of the world, and this is why Satan is so assiduous in his efforts to seduce Christians.

    You misunderstood what I was saying, that GOD is the God of this world, not Satan, who WAS the prince or principle of darkness but that Light has come and Jesus defeated the Devil and made a show of him openly.

    11. “On judgment,
    Since the leader of the world here, was judged.

    OK, so he WAS the leader (the ultimate blind guide to the blind) of this world here, but then JESUS dispossessed him and stripped him of any power he may have had, so he had to come up with something really clever – it took a while but he came up with the Trinity and the Roman Church, amongst other gambits, to deprive Man of God-consciousness and cage them in a prison of doctrine and being their own gods.

    Satan had to ask God for permission to mess with Job, and that was OT, so what about now – who can he ask now, now that he has been judged? Do you think He can mess with you if God does not allow it to be so, even if by default? He has to get permission from you or whoever has the authority over you and to whom your authority is given.

    ALL judgment was committed to Jesus yet He judges no man, but rather took all judgment upon Himself, becoming as a serpent on a pole for all to see. So, was Jesus judged?

    Of course Jesus was judged – that is a big part of what it is all about, and of course, He was innocent! But since when has being innocent stopped people being judged, especially Jesus?

    It took the devil quite a while to con enough christians and slime enough of “his” people into the system to craft the church culture, then to take it over “officially” in 1033 (Pope Benedict IX) and his tenure is about to come to an abrupt close, but not before there is a lot of serious stuff to happen.

    You forget, Satan is not a fiery red demon, although he has some at his disposal, but he is a very religious spirit, the most religious, he loves all that pomp and circumstance, it keeps the punters fooled and makes him feel like a god.

    In fact he takes it quite personally, and says that we are judging Him when we judge another as he “owns” all SIN and all MANKIND and the cattle and the gold and the earth and the fullness thereof.

    If you want to believe that Satan should be the god of this world, and you feel that your Bible tells you that, then that is between you and God. A lot do and in the latter days, multitudes will yield their kingship to the Beast, but please check it out with Jesus before you rush to print about the matter, you could after all be wrong. The Devil is a liar and the father of it and there is no truth in him.

    I will offer you an agreement – that we BOTH should open our heart and mind to the substantive Truth and be taught of the Holy Spirit of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of heaven and of earth, but not of the world system, and that whatever either needs to learn we shall do so and that only by God’s Holy Spirit, and not by any devil or doctrines of devils or traditions of men. Amen?

    Remember, Leviathan, Behemoth and Ziz = SIN = the world system run by not just one ha Shatan, but by billions. Satan is ONLY the leader of the world system, the good evil system, and he may appear as a messenger of light and so do his servants.

  96. The Trinity divides God and so divides man made in God’s image and any house divided against itself shall fall.

    God is SEVEN SPIRITS and God is ONE PERSON, and is complete, Body, Mind and Spirit, and He wants us to be the same, complete and mature, lacking nothing of Him, fulfilled in Him and by Him.

    What do you want for your children? Send them to a fiery hell of eternal torment with no supper?

    Let me guess, “Well, they asked for it – they brought it upon themselves”.

    Sorry sunshine, we “fell” due to Adam and we were “raised” due to the Last Adam – and as it says in the Aramaic, “For it was not by oaths that we were saved”. And yes, you have to accept salvation for it to become aforce in your life, God does not just dump it on you, but he sows it in you, from the beginning, and then He waters it and it sprouts to Newness of Life – but its all metaphors and parables for the blind and the deaf – the real story is only found under the ministry of the Holy Spirit and in the experiencing of salvation in the reality of the resurrection Power of Jesus Christ.

    And this is why the world is in the crap, cos most Christians believe the dung that has been cast for them, and then they fling it at each other.

  97. Steve, saying that people condemn themselves rather than God condemning them means that your God is rather like Dinsdale Pirahna from the Monty Python sketch.

    Interviewer: He nailed your head to the floor?

    Vince: At first yeah

    Presenter: Another man who had his head nailed to the floor was Stig O’ Tracy.

    Interviewer: I’ve been told Dinsdale Piranha nailed your head to the floor.

    Stig: No. Never. He was a smashing bloke. He used to buy his mother flowers and that. He was like a brother to me.

    Interviewer: But the police have film of Dinsdale actually nailing your head to the floor.

    Stig: (pause) Oh yeah, he did that.

    Interviewer: Why?

    Stig: Well he had to, didn’t he? I mean there was nothing else he could do, be fair. I had transgressed the unwritten law.

    Interviewer: What had you done?

    Stig: Er… well he didn’t tell me that, but he gave me his word that it was the case, and that’s good enough for me with old Dinsy. I mean, he didn’t *want* to nail my head to the floor. I had to insist. He wanted to let me off. He’d do anything for you, Dinsdale would.

    Interviewer: And you don’t bear him a grudge?

    Stig: A grudge! Old Dinsy. He was a real darling.

    Interviewer: I understand he also nailed your wife’s head to a coffee table. Isn’t that true Mrs O’ Tracy?

    Mrs O’ Tracy: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

    Stig: Well he did do that, yeah. He was a hard man. Vicious but fair

  98. Why, wazza, did God sin or did you?

    What convicted you? Your transgression, or the law, or God? The law stated the penalty for the transgression. Who was the transgressor? Who pays? Who is convicted, or condemned?

    What is the condemnation that convicts, according to John 3? Unbelief. Not believing in the Son.

    John 3:17-18
    For God did not send His Son into the world that He might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.

    So if God is not condemning them, yet their unbelief condemns them, what is it that you have a difficulty with? Surely they are already condemned by their own unbelief.

    Simple really.

  99. Romans 8:1-4
    Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus, because the Spirit’s law of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. What the law could not do since it was limited by the flesh, God did. He condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son in flesh like ours under sin’s domain, and as a sin offering, in order that the law’s requirement would be accomplished in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

  100. The Father does not condemn the Prodigal. God does not condemn His creation. Is it a virtue to condemn the sick, the diseased, which is what sin is?

  101. It’s Pascha this weekend. Go doesn’t condemn anyone but draws all men to Him.

    At the beginning of every liturgy, as the priest censes around the altar, he recites a very simple prayer: “In the tomb with the body, in hell with the soul, in paradise with the thief, on the throne with the Father and the Spirit was Thou, O boundless Christ, filling all things yet encompassed by none.”

    In this simple and concise prayer, we see that Jesus in his humanity entered everywhere that man went after death, but it was all held together by his divine nature.

    It was his divine nature that destroyed the power of death, the hold that death had upon all humanity until that time, because what death swallowed up was not a mere man, but God.

    By his descent into “the lowest pit, in the darkest depths” and his resurrection, God is now everywhere present and fills all things. It is not that Hell no longer exists but that the gates of hell have been broken.

    If we look at traditional Orthodox icons of Christ’s resurrection, we see Christ raising Adam and Eve, our first parents, from Hell. We also see depicted broken locks, bars and chains, and the smashed doors of hell.

    What is portrayed iconographically is that the doors of hell now stand wide open. Hell is no longer a place where we are sent after we die but rather a place which we by the Grace of God can walk through into the heavenly kingdom.

    However, we can still choose to stay in Hades while its doors stand wide open.

    Hell is destroyed because there is now no place where God is not. There is no place where death and darkness reign eternally. We are no longer prisoners of death and darkness, unless we choose to be there.

    There is can no longer any place we can hide from God. By rising from the dead, God shed his love on everyone. As we recite in the Creed, we believe in the resurrection of the dead.
    All will be raised and bathed in the glory and the love of God. Not just the righteous, but the unrighteous also. To those who love God, that love is a warm and comforting light. To those who reject God, that same love is experienced as a burning fire.
    It is not that God is condemning us to a fiery, torturous eternity, but rather he sheds his love upon everyone to an eternity of his love. If we find ourselves in darkness, it is because we refuse to open our eyes to the love all around us.

    At the very beginning of matins for Holy Pascha, (Easter), the church is engulfed in darkness. It is a moment pregnant with the anticipation of announcement of the Resurrection.

    It is at this moment that the priest strikes a match and lights his candle, from which every candle in the church will be lit. The priest turns to the people and invites them to “Come receive the light.”

    By doing so he invites not only the faithful, but the entire world, to open their eyes to the light of Christ that bathes all of creation.
    This is the glory and the joy of Pascha. Christ is risen and all things are new. Christ is risen and the dead are freed from their graves.

    Read more: http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Orthodox-Easter-God-broke-the-power-of-death-4468200.php#ixzz2S8TmJrHz

  102. Who made the law? Who is it that judges and who decides the penalty? If there is condemnation who is it that condemns? If not God then who? Or is there some unwritten law that even God is powerless to avoid enforcing?

    In the Python sketch, the victims are desperately trying not to admit that Dinsdale is judging them and punishing them – when cornered they say that Dinsdale was forced to do it. They do this perhaps sub-conciously out of fear of recriminations from Dinsy.

  103. What we need is a Spiny Norman, yes? Even Dinsdale was in awe of him! Spinny Normal has no power, just a lot of pricks. Hey, what’s the difference between a hedgehog and a Range Rover? With a Range Rover, the pricks are on the inside .

    But seriously folks, Romans 8:1 is one of the more commonly misapprehended scriptures, especially given the added rider to verse one which makes it appear to be a CONDITIONAL STATEMENT instead of a STATEMENT OF (OUR) CONDITION.

    The condemnation it is speaking of is actually THE LAW OF CONDEMNATION GRAVEN IN STONES – Romans is all about the superiority of the New Covenant and the eternal intention of God – in fact that is what the Whole New Testament is about.

    The Law of God is HIS UNIVERSAL LAW OF LOVE graven upon the fleshy tables of our hearts – He has MARKED US, and made us KOSHER, His Law overlays our softened flesh, if you will.

    The rider “who walk after the Spirit, not after the flesh appears to be conditional if you do not read down to a least verse 9.

    Romans 1:9 says, “But you are NOT IN THE FLESH, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you.” So, if the Spirit of God is in ANYONE, then how can they be in the flesh?

    2 Cor 5 – We are not to know any man after the flesh, either his, or ours, but after the (eternal) Spirit.

    Another one which harmonizes with this is when Jesus said that the kingdom of God does not come with or by observation, and of course our teachers told us that meant it did not coming by looking for it but by resting in it. Nice, but wrong – it does not come BY THE OBSERVATION OF (OR THE KEEPING OF) THE LAW, but by GRACE.

    Hey Bones, remember this one? When a man dies, his body returns to the ground from whence it came and his spirit returns to God who gave it. That’s Ecclesiastes 12:7 – try and equivocate over that stumbling block Steve – that was the one God used to stop my Pentecostal parroting and popery.

  104. The Prodigal repented and sought the father for forgiveness.

    That is the heart of our Father.

    It is those who reject His forgiveness who reject Christ. Those reject the Son, reject the Father.

    This is the condemnation.

  105. Bones,
    It’s Pascha this weekend. Go doesn’t condemn anyone but draws all men to Him.

    So we good to go on sinning on then? We can do whatever we want and we still get through.

    All the murderers and thieves and pedophiles and rapists are home free!

    I guess that lets Judas, Herod, Goliath, Nero, Domician, the Inquistors and all off the hook.

    Kim Jung-Il, too!

  106. Worse still, according to you universalist proponents, who seem to be in the majority here, people can deny Christ and make the cut!

    What, then, is the point of Scripture which says we must be born again, salvation is throu Christ alone, and there is no other name unde heaven by which we can be saved?

  107. You can take your chief doctrine on salvation from Ecclesiastes if you want, Ian.

    I’ll stick to the whole canon, especially the New Testament, and in particular, what Jesus said, because He can’t be wrong, can He?

    He said you must be born again, which means being born of the Spirit, born of God.

    Must! Imperative!

    Ae the no other evangelicals out their? Or must I be the only one to unravel the loosely knit web of confusion issued forth by the universalists?

  108. Ask Jesus what He meant by “You must be born from above”. Is it “This is what you must DO, or this is what you must realize about who you ARE, who you must BE, and where you must COME FROM – from above – as in when you die, you spirit returns to God who gave it – He who invested the seed of Christ in the husk of your humanity. Your body cam out of the ground but your spirit came out of God – the point being that the Jews knew this and this revelation predates Calvary but does not preclude salvation. Hence why numerous OT Saints were filled with the Spirit. Hence why Elijah and Enoch could be translated – where do they fit your theology?

    To me the gospel which you preach is the Whitfield/Wesley born-again-Jew doctrine. But how can Jews themselves go to heaven without being born again Christians?

    Simple, but they have to go through hell to get there…for BROAD is the WAY which leads to destruction, and many there are who enter in thereby. Far more enter in through destruction than enter in by the Narrow Way, but never-the-less, they still get there – if you do not believe me, ask Jesus – it were He wot told me! But first He had to knock me off my high horse…

    Perhaps it would help if you understood that the word deny that you use means to oppose or resist or prevent – such that if we deny Him He will deny us – and the way he denies us is to speck the Truth in Love – for He cannot deny Himself…

    I ask you Steve – who would you like to see go to hell? I mean honestly, who would be worthy of hell that you know personally. In fact, who is it that you are struggling so to forgive? Have you got too much invested in hell and being right to simply ask Jesus if it be so as you suppose and have been conditioned to believe?

    Ask Jesus Steve, you don’t have to defend your position if it sound, but simply proclaim the Truth – but my litmus test for our “TQ” or Truth Quotient is how much peace reigns in our lives and how much of the kingdom we carry – when people see us do they see Jesus, or just another religious person pushing their own barrow in the market of men, hoping to make proselytes but making them twice the child of Gehenna as we?

  109. ???What, then, is the point of Scripture which says we must be born again, salvation is throu Christ alone, and there is no other name unde heaven by which we can be saved???

    It does not matter (To Bones), because Bones has prepared many trap doors in witch to funnel out his opponents with cob web shaped comments(that change every morning) and threads that can be recognized by their fuzzy and dull appearance,in which he attempts to capture prey by a velcro-like mechanism.
    His techniques are applied to an investigation of,’Cut and Copy Support for a Theory’.
    Nothing more than a Changeling!!!

  110. So EYES, do you agree with your favourite Christmasisalie site that says the Trinity is a popish and pagan invention.

    It’s obvious that Christmasisalie is a cultic site from JWs or Christadelphians.

    So EYES who discredits other Christians as being fuzzy and dull is happy to cite from internet sites which contradict and attack basic Christian doctrine about God, denying the Trinity.

    Who’s the Changeling?

    “”The word Trinity is not found in the Bible . . . It did not find a place formally in the theology of the church till the 4th century.” — The Illustrated Bible Dictionary

    “In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word [tri’as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180 . . . Shortly afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian.” However, this is no proof in itself that Tertullian taught the Trinity. The Catholic work Trinitas – A Theological Encyclopedia of the Holy Trinity, for example, notes that some of Tertullian’s words were later used by others to describe the Trinity. But then it states: “But hasty conclusions cannot be drawn from usage, for he does not apply the words to Trinitarian theology.” – The Catholic Encyclopedia

    “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament.” – The New Encyclopedia Britannica

    “To Jesus and Paul the doctrine of the trinity was apparently unknown; . . . they say nothing about it.” — Yale University Professor E. Washburn Hopkins, Origin and Evolution of Religion.

    “As early as the 8th century, the Theologian St. John of Damascus frankly admitted what every modern critical scholar of the NT now realizes: that neither the Doctrine of the Trinity nor that of the 2 natures of Jesus Christ is explicitly set out in scripture. In fact, if you take the record as it is and avoid reading back into it the dogmatic definitions of a later age, you cannot find what is traditionally regarded as orthodox Christianity in the Bible at all.” — Tom Harpur, For Christ’s Sake.

    “Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon, and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord.” — Historian Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity

    “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ — Deut. 6:4 . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.” — The New Encyclopedia Britannica, Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126. (1976)

    “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” – The New Catholic Encyclopedia ,(1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

    “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicaea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.” — The Encyclopedia Americana, (1956), Vol. XXVII, p. 294L.

    “Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. . . . From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity.” And in the book Egyptian Religion, Siegfried Morenz notes: “The trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians . . . Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology.” – Historian Will Durant

    http://christmaslie.webs.com/thechrist.htm#516166056

  111. Very informative Bones – thanks for the effort. When I asked God to teach me about who and what he was back in 1983, Having found that everyone at the WOF church I was attending seemed to have a different take on the matter and their opinions were largely predicated upon those of others, I decided that straight to the Source was the only logical course.

    I asked God to show me how He was, and he gave me a vision and told me some foundational Truth about Himself, in that He is Love and He is Light and in Him there is NO contradiction and that if something seemed contradictory about God that it was in my understanding and not in His character or nature. He told me if I adhered to this core Truth that I would never err far from the Truth.

    Over years and by various means and encounters, He has expanded this original vision and word to show Himself in an image which is to be found in Jeremiah 3:9 – among other places…

    9 For behold, upon the stone which I have set before Joshua, upon that one stone are seven eyes or facets [the all-embracing providence of God and the sevenfold radiations of the Spirit of God]. Behold, I will carve upon it its inscription, says the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity and guilt of this land in a single day.

    God has Seven Facets to His Completion, to His Character and we are made in his image. It is simple – we are One, but we are Three (body, soul, spirit) and we are Seven, just like God, as we are made in His image. Now where it gets really spinny is to try and comprehend how it is that you are seated from the Right of God in the heavenlies in Christ, and down here at the same time, or how it is that Jeus has gone to prepare a country (not a Man-Sion) for us, which is the kingdom, such that WE may be where HE is at and so His Father and Him shall come and abide with us, or how in your inner man is a doorway into the holy of holies…

    If you want to know what the Seven Spirits of God are as I have been given to understand it – they are Father, Word, Spirit, Faith, Hope, Love and the centrality of God, the Ancient of Days.

    Now I am not going to argue the toss or explain this as it is something you have to get from God for yourself, but simply ask if it be so and leave it at that.

    As to cults, the Christianized ones are the most compelling and the more Truth that they have worked into their wicked weave, the more seductive and seclusive they may become – but it is not about truth as much as it is about Love, for if I know all mysteries and all truth and have not Love, then I am nothing.

    God is Love. God is our beginning, our Genesis (Father). God is the Manifestation or Word (the Son). God is The Teacher (The Holy Spirit). God is our Belief (Faith), God is our Consummation (Hope), and He is Mercy, He is LOVE. God is all of these and more, there is no end to His wonders.

    The idea of the Trinity was to divide God and so divide His household. It worked, only too well.

    Hear O Israel, the Lord your God is ONE (the Only) GOD!

  112. ?WHAT THE?*God has Seven Facets to His Completion, to His Character and we are made in his image. It is simple – we are One, but we are Three (body, soul, spirit) and we are Seven, just like God, as we are made in His image.*?WHAT THE?

    Well that just clears everything up right there doesn’t it!
    I think your own IQ(ego)has failed you at this point.

  113. Of course what I say would be inclined to make baby believers laugh. All you do is confirm your Pharisaic nature and ignorance of God by reacting instead of researching.

    One of the last mysteries is the Seven Spirits of God – mentioned 4 times in Revelation and also in Zechariah 3:9 (sorry, typo or Freud-ian slip above with Jeremiah – 9 And through the infamy and unseemly frivolity of Israel’s whoredom [because her immorality mattered little to her], she polluted and defiled the land, [by her idolatry] committing adultery with [idols of] stones and trees.

    For behold, upon the stone which I have set before Joshua, upon that one stone are seven eyes or facets [the all-embracing providence of God and the sevenfold radiations of the Spirit of God]. Behold, I will carve upon it its inscription, says the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity and guilt of this land in a single day.

    In Revelation the Seven Spirits are before the throne and are the eyes of the Lamb, in whom the fullness of God dwells bodily.

    Jesus was anointed with the Seven Spirits – he was complete – He was SHALOM. Isaiah prophesied this:

    2. And there shall rest and settle upon him the Spirit of God,
    the Spirit of Wisdom and Knowledge,
    the Spirit of Providence and Greatness,
    the Spirit of Understanding and Submission to the Lord;

    That’s Seven Spirits mentioned there. He who has the SEVEN SPIRITS also writes seven corrective letters to seven assemblies.

    And this from Wikipedia.

    The numerous names for God have been a source of debate among biblical scholars. Elohim (god, or authority, plural form), El (mighty one), El Shaddai (almighty), Adonai (master), Elyon (highest), Avinu (our father), are regarded by many religious Jews not as names, but as titles highlighting different aspects of YHWH and the various ‘roles’ of God.

    Other Jewish sources believe that the use of various names of God in the Hebrew Bible, and the fact that Elohim is a plural word suggests a polytheistic origin.[1] Thus the ancient Rabbis went to great lengths to try to account for the number of the names of God, by claiming that they account for the various aspects of God.

    God revealed Himself to me as SEVEN long before I ever heard of such a thing.

    I would posit that as you have spent most of your life the subject of a social experiment called the British Empire, that you see life as some kind of social experiment to see who can “make it” to heaven and who goes to oblivion – like some kind of test?

    But love is the qualification and the qualifier, so why don’t you be a dear and instead of mocking ask Jesus if what i say is so, but you will not do that as you have too much invested in being right instead of comprehending righteousness, yes?

  114. The “name” YHWH literally means “He Is”, being responsive and affirmative of the “I Am”, or he that comes to God MUST believe “He Is”.

    Many of the Jewish people see that they have a God given mandate to subdue the world and fill it, and as the West largely does not understand the Hebraic concept of Creation and the ordering thereof, nor the mandate given Adam, the Jews have successfully managed to pretty much gain effective control of everything.

    “Sin lies at the door and its desire shall be for you and you should rule over it.”

    The world system and their god satan/shiva/molloch – call him what you will – will turn on Israel and God will come and destroy the elemental spirits of Ziz, Behemoth and Leviathan.

    If you don’t “get” this, and how that the West is Esau and Edom, and how Jacob and Esau will fight (brothers – who can figure family already) – then I reckon you are blind to the obvious.

    It is also lost on Xians that those who serve satan would very much like to offer up the final holocaust, the final burnt offering, and that to be planet earth. When Jew Robert Oppenheimer offered “I am become death (Shiva) the destroyer of worlds” he was not kidding, and now man has the capacity to destroy creation.

    The Hindu religion had its roots in the Indo/Aryan cult of Babylon, hence its similarity to pre-Islamic Arab beliefs, Jewish Kabbalah and affinity with Freemasonry. All the “Anti-god” or Antichrist religions come from the same root, that is why they are all rooted in the earth instead of coming down from out of God.

    And guess what the Indian Govt gave to the CERN project as a totem or talisman? A statue of Shiva, the destroyer of worlds…

    Nice.

  115. Ian, you are making a fundamentla error when trying to understand texts – you’re applying a literal understanding instead of a metaphorical understanding where it si needed. The most that can be talken from the text you supply from Isaiah is that there are 6 gifts of the one holy spirit – not 7 spirits – even were you to take a more literal understanding you would be left with only 3 binary spirits – but even that is a huge stretch.

    Paul writes of multiple gifts but only one spirit dispencing them to whom the spirit wills.

    You are incorrect in your assertion that God is 7 – and disgustingly proud in your assertion that those who don’t see it your way are mere baby Christians.

  116. Funny, He does not look like that, but I met a Prince Spirit once that did. Jesus looks very much a Hebrew and has black wavy hair, incredibly intense eyes and is rather handsome, unlike the ugly beady eyed “creation” crafted in this drawing.

    As to being proud, I think depressed would be more apt. Are you Catholics or something, have I wandered into a den of Papists thinking this was a Christian site? BY the way, the Trinity is in essence Babylonian, hence why the Hindus have a Trinity too.

    So Greg, your God is three persons (one apparently a mocker), and mine is Seven and sits in the heavens, laughing…one of them will have the last laugh. I think whoever penned that picture was channeling a devil…or has never seen Jesus in person.

    And just for good measure, what do you suppose that the Seven Spirits of God are? The Seven Fold Radiances of God?
    [the all-embracing providence of God and the sevenfold radiations of the Spirit of God]. Amp. Huh? Most Xians have never heard of Zech 3:9 and many would like to rip Revelation right out of the Book.

    God is SPIRIT and those who worship HIM must do so in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. He is Seven Spirits – the centrality of which is GOD and the three times two characteristics make a total of seven. And this is why early saints knew Him as the Seven.

    You know Him as the three – as the Trinity – which is also known as Hinduism. Hare Krishna?

    And I believe it is you who is being literal, and I who is being metaphorical, but that is no matter really, for in the end it is all about love and righteousness, not being right.

    Besides, He spoke in metaphors so that seeing you would not see and hearing you would not hear – but He spoke plainly to His disciples, so Greg, what has Jesus told you plainly that the seven spirits of God are?

  117. Now as I recall this discussion thread pertains to the coincidences concurrent with the chaos of “terrorist” activities. The conclusion clearly apparent to me is that there are two minds warring for control of Creation – one wants to BRING many sons and daughters to GLORY, whilst the other wants to kill, steal and destroy.

    Jesus berated the Pharisees as being of their father the Devil – the same Jesus who said “All judgment is committed to Me and I judge not”. In another place He said that the judgment of God is always just. So, by giving the Pharisees a serve, was He being judgmental or was He doing them a favor? Was His motivation, means and manner from Love? As the only begotten Son, did He perfectly please the Father (of) God?

    He was always on the case of the Pharisees and it got him crucified in the end, but then we all know it had to be that way, just as it had to be that Adam did not heed God when still one in the garden and told “In the day that you eat of it, death shall enter”.

    Jesus even said to the Pharisees “Does not your own Law say that you are (as) gods?” And TO THIS DAY, the basic tenet of Talmudic Judaism is that THE JEW IS AS A GOD MAN and all others are Goys, and that is why they concocted and tinctured and leavened your gospel and that of the Muslims and the Mormons…the list goes on…but in essence the reason why the Church is so mixed up is that the Jews hid much of the “good” stuff about God and made up fairy stories for fools.

    And the warning is even louder and more current today, “Beware the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy”.

    The irony is of course that Talmudic Judaism is leavened and was NOT the “religion” of Jesus but that of the Edomite Judeans, and it was they who sought to kill Him as he was challenging their racket, He wanted to pull down their stone temple and replace it with one of flesh.

    How apt that in our broken city, the main bone of contention is over the Cathedral – when God went to the trouble of trashing it all they want to do is to REBUILD. But Jesus said “I will build (up) My congregation, My assembly, and the gates (collected wisdom and authority) of Sheol (the house of the dead) shall not prevail against it”.

    So, the situation was that The Man, Adam, who being warned not to eat while still one, later when divided fell for what Satan was selling – the knowledge of good and evil – aka figuring it out for yourself and being self-determinative, self-evolved, self centered instead of Tree of Life centered.

    Now the Garden is an allegory of the human condition, the two trees being the two opposing natures of flesh and of Spirit. The flesh lusts after the Spirit, while the Spirit RESISTS or DENIES the flesh, so the flesh does all it can to deny the Spirit access to the rest which means the end of the flesh, and the flesh is very sneaky, and so it ought to be, when you consider who be the father thereof.

    The fallen relationship of man and woman is axiomatic of the fallen relationship of Man and God – of separation – and the coming together of the man and the woman is axiomatic of the relationship of Man with Christ – “and in that day, you shall no longer call me LORD but HUSBAND”. Are you Lord to your wife or husband? Is He Lord to you or husband?

    Now it might seem that i digress but I am obviating the very source and substance of satanism – the old serpent self – the nature of the Devil – which has seven darkened expressions, being persecutor, victim, rescuer, hate, fear and despair, and in the center, the essential you opposed to God. But by beholding the image of Him, we are transformed into the same image.

    Now here is the rub for rubes; just from whence do we acquire the image which we are to be transformed into? Did it come from God or from Man or from the Devil? For think it not strange that if Satan may appear to be as a messenger of light, that his ministers should also be as messengers of righteousness?

    Are you beholding the glory of god in the face of Jesus, or some religious Eye-con, or I-con by which you fool yourselves that you actually know Him?

    If you want to see the real condition of the “church” then simply look at the marriage stats for starters.

    And yes, there is a world wide conspiracy, in fact two are in operation, but the one which involves many sons and daughters coming to glory is the winner. Now if we could just get on with our wives… and discover what it is like to have a husband instead of a Baal (Lord), then we will really have a ball. Selah.

  118. Well, dear me, I did rather forget yes, that the love of money is the ROOT of EVERY EVIL. Debt and Death are synergistic, or is that sinner-gist-ic.

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