Islamic civil war escalates

As Syria, Egypt, and now Lebanon burns amid fearsome scenes of another bomb blast outside mosques, undoubtedly connected to the developing civil war in the Middle East between Sunni and Shia Muslims, it is time for the world’s community to pray for a peaceful resolution and for stability to return to the region.

News reports of another bombing atrocity, this time outside a Sunni Lebanese mosque, seemingly in retaliation for an earlier bombing at a Shia mosque, highlight the massive tensions arising,  without any clear information on who is leading either side in the various uprisings, or if they are endemic of surging enmity between the sides, who seem to have switched their attention from anti-American sentiment to a civil war footing on an epic religious scale.

Burned and destroyed cars are seen at the entrance of a mosque, left, which was attacked by a car bomb in the northern city of Tripoli, Lebanon, Aug. 23, 2013.

TRIPOLI, LEBANON
Twin car bombs exploded outside mosques in the northern Lebanese city of Tripoli Friday, killing at least 29 people, wounding over 350 and wreaking major destruction in the country’s second largest city, Lebanese Health Ministry officials said.

Footage aired on local TV showed thick, black smoke billowing over the city and bodies scattered beside burning cars in scenes reminiscent of Lebanon’s 1975-90 civil war.

The blasts hit amid soaring tensions in Lebanon as a result of Syria’s civil war, which has sharply polarized the country along sectarian lines and between supporters and opponents of the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad. It was the second such bombing in just over a week, showing the degree to which the tiny country is being consumed by the raging war next door.

Tripoli, a predominantly Sunni Muslim city, has seen frequent clashes between Sunnis and Alawites, a Shiite offshoot sect to which Assad belongs. But the city itself has rarely seen such explosions in recent years.

Friday’s blasts mark the first time in years that such explosions have targeted Sunni strongholds and were bound to raise sectarian tensions in the country to new levels. It was also the most powerful and deadliest in Tripoli since the end of the civil war.

Attacks have become common in the past few months against Shiite strongholds in Lebanon, particularly following the open participation of the militant Shiite Hezbollah group on behalf of Assad in Syria’s civil war.

On Aug. 15, a car bomb rocked a Shiite stronghold of Hezbollah in the southern suburbs of Beirut, also killing 27 people and wounding over 300. A less powerful car bomb targeted the same area on July 9, wounding over 50.

The region is becoming a very dangerous place in a war which could last for decades. Syria has been accused of using chemical weapons on its own citizens. Whether the UN has the will or firepower to intervene with any force is debatable.

What is clear is that this is developing quickly into a regional civil war, not between Islam and the West, but between rival religious factions within the vast Muslim community.

The other question will be whether this will spill over into Europe and Asia where there are large Muslim communities, or if it contained within the Middle East.

These tensions have been simmering for centuries, but have now been released. Some will blame the interventions in some nations by the West, but it could be that the power-keg was always tinder dry and simply waiting for a match.


75 thoughts on “Islamic civil war escalates

  1. In my view this is a prejudiced analysis of the Syrian war.

    It is not primarily a civil war between two Muslim sects – its not even a religious war.

    It is an uprising against a cruel leader – much like the Arab spring in other states. It is an attempted revolution against a secular government.

    “The other question will be whether this will spill over into Europe and Asia where there are large Muslim communities, or if it contained within the Middle East”

    It will spill over where there are cruel and despotic regimes. You are trying to stereotype Muslims as in conflict by nature – and therefore a danger to the West – when the opposite is more the case.

  2. Shia and Sunni are killing each other, blowing up mosques. Not a civil war? Maybe, maybe not. Not religious? Maybe, maybe not. So make a comment, come to a conclusion. Stop trying to make something that isn’t there. Open your minds a little. The questions were asked. What do you think?

  3. I think with that question, Greg is showing his hand. He hasn’t got anything. Nuthin.

    Muslims will be blowing people up again – mainly each other today, but no doubt there’ll be some Nigerian Christians stabbed and maybe an Egyptian church burned, but yeah, a fair share of Muslims just blowing up each other – women and kids included……

    and Greg and Bones will be googling the American Civil War now…..

    Good grief!!

    Guys, put on your vagina photo T-shirts, put flowers in your hair and go to Syria and hold some lectures on islam and Peace.

    Man, you are so removed from reality and sanity it’s scary.

    You guys could have Muslims shooting up your house and burning your kids, and instead of saving them you’d be on the internet printing out something about Christians in Sicily in 1315!

    Signposts02 ….we’re on a road to nowhere….

    More like signposts showing the parking lot of the asylum.

  4. Sorry, that was uncalled for.

    Islam is a religion of peace. I’m sure that any problems they are having over there is the fault of Western Christians.

    hmmm what can we do? Too hard for me. It’s a job for Greg and Bones. Let’s raise and offering for Greg and Bones and send them to Syria. (one way tickets of course)

  5. Religion plays an important role in the conflict in Syria. A United Nations report in late 2012 said that the conflict was becoming “overtly sectarian” in some parts of the country, with Syria’s various religious communities finding themselves on the opposite sides of the fight between the government of President Bashar al-Assad and Syria’s fractured opposition.
    •In depth: Syrian Civil War Explained

    Growing Religious Divide

    At its core, the civil war in Syria is not a religious conflict. The dividing line is one’s loyalty to the Assad’s government. However, some religious communities tend to be more supportive of the regime than the others, fuelling mutual suspicion and religious intolerance in many parts of the country.

    Syria is an Arab country with a Kurdish and Armenian minority. In term of religious identity, most of the Arab majority belongs to the Sunni branch of Islam, with several Muslim minority groups associated with the Shiite Islam. The Christians from different denominations represent at least 10% of the population.

    The emergence among the anti-government rebels of hardline Sunni Islamist militias fighting for an Islamic state has alienated the minorities. The outside interference from the Shiite Iran and the Sunni Saudi Arabia makes matter worse, feeding into the wider Sunni-Shiite tension in the Middle East.
    •The Cold War Between Iran and Saudi Arabia

    Alawites (around 12% of the population)

    President Bashar al-Assad belongs to the Alawite minority, an offshoot of Shiite Islam specific to Syria (with small population pockets in Lebanon). The Assad family has been in power since 1970 and although it presided over a secular regime, many Syrians think Alawites have enjoyed privileged access to top government jobs and business opportunities.

    After the outbreak of the anti-government uprising in 2011, the vast majority of Alawites rallied behind the regime, fearful of discrimination if the Sunni majority came to power. Most of the top rank in the army and the intelligence services are Alawites, making the community as a whole closely identified with the government camp in the civil war.
    •The Difference Between Alawites and Sunnis

    Sunni Muslim Arabs (up to 70%)

    A majority of Syrians are Sunni Arabs, but they are politically divided. True, most of the fighters in the opposition Free Syrian Army come from the Sunni provincial heartlands, and many Sunni Islamists don’t consider Alawites as real Muslims. The armed confrontation between largely Sunni rebels and the Alawite-led government troops has led some observers to see Syria’s civil war as the conflict between Sunnis and Alawites.

    But it’s not that simple. Most of the regular government soldiers fighting the rebels are Sunni recruits (though thousands have defected to the opposition), and Sunnis hold leading positions in the government, the bureaucracy, the ruling Baath Party, and the business community.

    Some businessmen and middle class Sunnis support the regime because they want to protect their material interests. Many others are simply scared by the Islamist groups within the rebel movement, and don’t trust the opposition. In any case, the bedrock of support from sections of the Sunni community has been key to Assad’s survival.
    •Al Qaeda in Syria: Al Nusra Front

    Christians (around 10%)

    The Arab Christian minority in Syria has enjoyed a relatively secure position under Assad, integrated by the regime’s secular nationalist ideology. Many Christians fear that this politically repressive but religiously tolerant dictatorship will be replaced by a Sunni Islamist regime that will discriminate against the minorities, pointing to the prosecution of Iraqi Christians by Islamist extremists after the fall of Saddam Hussein.

    This has led the Christian establishment – the merchants, top bureaucrats and religious leaders – to support the government, or at least distance themselves from what they saw as a Sunni uprising in 2011. And although there are many Christians in the ranks of the political opposition, such as the Syrian National Coalition, and among the pro-democracy youth activists, some rebel groups now consider all Christians as collaborators with the regime.
    •BBC: Syria war fuels Christian flight from Middle East

    The Druze & Ismailis (2-3%)

    The Druze and the Ismailis are two distinct Muslim minorities believed to have developed out of the Shiite branch of Islam. Much as other minorities, they fear that the regime’s potential downfall will give way to chaos and religious persecution. The reluctance of their leaders to join the opposition has often been interpreted as tacit support for Assad.

    Twelver Shiites

    While most Shiites in Iraq, Iran and Lebanon belong to the mainstream Twelver branch, this principal form of Shiite Islam is only a tiny minority in Syria, concentrated in parts of the capital Damascus. However, their numbers swelled after 2003 with the arrival of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi refugees during the Sunni-Shiite civil war in that country.

    With Syria’s descent into conflict, some Shiites moved back to Iraq. Others organized militias to defend their neighborhoods from Sunni rebels, adding yet another layer to the fragmentation of Syria’s society.

  6. You and Steve sped an inordinate amount of time attacking us personally when all I have done is ask what the difference is between this civil war and the American civil war? Why is the Syrian civil war supposedly religious and the American war not?

  7. The American civil war has nothing to do with this conflict. I am merely wanting to stay on thread. I have not attacked you at all. I redirected you to the post.

    Your prior comment indicates that there is an element of fervour between Sunni and Shia forces in what is certainly a civil war. My post was more concerned with the whole of he Middle East, and featured the bombing recently in Tripoli in Lebanon, which, although it is linked to Syria, actually brought another country into the developing regional conflict.

  8. Religion of peace claims responsibility for massacre in Kenya.

    A senior figure in the Somali militant group al-Shabab has told the BBC it carried out a deadly attack on a shopping centre in neighbouring Kenya.

    Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta said 39 people had been killed, including members of his family, and 150 injured.

    The operation to secure the mall and catch the gunmen was ongoing, he said in a national TV address.

    Al-Shabab, which has links to al-Qaeda, said the attack was in response to Kenya’s presence in Somalia.

    President Uhuru Kenyatta: “We shall hunt down the perpetrators”
    There are about 4,000 Kenyan troops in southern Somalia, where they have been fighting the militants since 2011.

    On its Twitter feed, al-Shabab said it was behind what it called the “Westgate spectacle”.

    In his TV address, Mr Kenyatta said security forces were “in the process of neutralising the attackers and securing the mall”.

    He went on: “We shall hunt down the perpetrators wherever they run to. We shall get to them and we shall punish them for this heinous crime.”

    He said he had “personally lost family members in the Westgate attack”.

    Trapped
    The attackers entered the Westgate centre at about 12:00 local time (09:00 GMT), throwing grenades and firing automatic weapons.

    Dozens of shoppers fled; many were trapped inside. Officers have been going from shop to shop to secure the area.

    Some seven hours after the assault began, al-Shabab said on Twitter that its fighters were still battling Kenyan security forces inside the Westgate centre.

    A security source told the AFP news agency police and soldiers had finally “pinned down” the gunmen in one corner of the shopping centre after several hours of fighting.

    One gunman was arrested and died of his wounds, Kenyan officials told the BBC. Four other gunmen were arrested.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-24191606

  9. Your persistent use of the pejorative ‘religion of peace’ is the same as bones use of the pejorative ‘climate deniers’.

    It is not the religion, but the politics and ideologies that are at cause here. The group claiming responsibility is an offshoot of Al Qaida, and so are as much a religious group as Families First are a religious group.

  10. That’s interesting, because I hadn’t noticed family First slaughtering innocent people in Christian lands in he name of their faith.

    But you’re right, and I recant. It is not the religion of peace. Islam means ‘submission’.

  11. But you compare the pejorative ‘denier’ with religion of peace, which is an odd choice, since ‘denier’ is synonymous with rejecting the fact of the Holocaust.

    And strange to me, also, that you point out the syntax of my comment and neglect the murder of people in the market place as a crime against all peace.

  12. A further point to make is that it is a religious group, and was not formed out of al Qaeda, but joined al Qaeda.

    Al-Shabab means The Youth in Arabic. It emerged as the radical youth wing of Somalia’s now-defunct Union of Islamic Courts in 2006, as it fought Ethiopian forces who had entered Somalia to back the weak interim government.

    There are numerous reports of foreign jihadists going to Somalia to help al-Shabab.

    It has imposed a strict version of Sharia law in areas under its control, including stoning to death women accused of adultery and amputating the hands of thieves.

    The Kenyans were in Somalia protecting the Christian community of the south from these religious fanatics.

  13. Gee I though for a minute Steve was going to write about his Muslim friends and how he loves all people.

    But it’s just another slanderous attack behind their back.

  14. Peru

    Fourteen traditionalist shamans about to form a shamanic school and association were murdered in Peru over a period of several months prior to October 2011. The murders were allegedly committed by, and/or at the behest of, the local mayor and a group of other evangelical Christians.

    Christianity – the religion of love

  15. I’m disappointed that the week of being nice has ended here.

    re Family first, I’ve been out of Australia for a long time so I don’t know much about them except from what I just read on Wikipedia. Sounds like a Christian party to me.

    I have to say that I think there is a difference between an individual or group supporting deployment of troops in a foreign country and the direct assassination of women and kids in a shopping mall. Esp when the group asks if they are muslim and if they are lets them go.

    No point arguing as I don’t see this getting anywhere, but do any of you have any solutions?

    If groups calling themselves muslims are killing people in several countries but it has nothing to do with religion, but all different political viewpoints, then can anything be done?

    Forgive me, but I wouldn’t want to live in a county with a sizeable Muslim population right now.

    If that’s a bad attitude, then so be it. I’m interested in protecting my family. Iraq? Egypt? Syria? Nigeria? Kenya? Iran?

    I’m totally against evangelicals killing the Shamanists. And I’d be in favor of evangelicals putting pressure or doing anything they can to see that it wouldn’t happen again.

    It would be helpful if the Muslims of the world could do something about promoting peace in Kenya. Or Nigeria. Or Syria, Or Boston, or the streets of England.

    Actually, and Bali, and……….

    Okay I’ll stop before people think I have this weird idea that there seems to be a lot of killing going on in the name of Islam.

    (Troops in Iraq aren’t there in the name of Christianity now. Neither are the ones in Afghanistan being supported by Obama, Pelosi, Rahm etc.)

    For the record I’m not in favor of troops in any of those countries.

    I’d like the Imams of this world to go on a hunger strike until the adherents of their religion stop shooting people in the head, and cutting heads of though.

    Maybe some of you could go visit your local Imam and suggest it.

    (But if he says he won’t because the situation in Kenya is the fault of the US or Israel, then I’m not interested in hearing it),

    This place was free of insults for a while. Couldn’t we keep it that way?

  16. “it was the Islamic religion who was responsible.”

    I don’t think the Islamic religion is responsible. But if in the same number of countries pentecostals were causing the same amount of death and destruction, you can bet that people would be wary of Christianity.

    (and can we keep this to the 21st century, otherwise we’ll be going back and arguing about the Civil War and the Crusades.

    So, what’s the answer? Can any of you convince people (who say they are of a particular religion but really aren’t good examples of it, and so causing people to get the wrong idea over and over again)
    to stop bombing churches and department stores and marathons and cutting people’s heads off?

    Actually, you can probably tell, but I’m a little depressed over yet another case of …..people falsely calling themselves Muslims committing terrorism.

    And believe me, I’ll be just as enraged if pseudo-Presbtyerians start doing the same thing on the same scale. Yeah. Exactly.

    If in the next 6 months the Presbos kill and bomb on the same scale as Muslim groups, I’ll lobby my local govt to think carefully about the next application to build a Presbo church here.

    Amazing. That guy in America wants to burn some Korans -not even shoot anyone, and it’s worth headlines here.

    Execute dozens of people after establishing that they aren’t Muslim and Steve gets beat up for mentioning anything about Islam.

    There seems to be some misplaced rage here.

  17. Guess you all heard the news about the suicide bombing in the church in Pakistan.

    70 dead I think.

    Just political though.
    After all, the Imams said that killing innocents is against Islam.

    Strange they’d even have to say that. But I’m glad they did clarify that.

    Now maybe they could go on a world tour and shout that message from the rooftops of every mosque.

    Some young Muslims in Pakistan and Kenya today were sleeping in Koran class and didn’t get that lesson.

    What a day it’s been!

    But remember – no slander.

  18. Well, Al Shebab was formed out of the Union of Islamic Courts. It is the youth movement of the Islamic Courts of Somalia.

    I may have missed something, but I thought Islam was, first and foremost, a religion dedicated to Allah, and contrived by Mohammed. There are movements within Islam, some of which interpret the koran in way which encourages jihad enforced in a militant way.

    Of course, within this, there are political and ideological ambitions, including he establishment of Sharia, which is Islamic legal system based on their religious ideals.

    To say that Islam is not religious is profound error.

    I may be that there are a range of factions from peaceful/moderate to militant/revolutionary, and hat the majority are in the first category, but it is, all the same, a religion whether they are of peace or of war.

    What we are seeing here are the factions which have turned to a war footing and are expressing their religious views in violent and oppressive ways.

    We ignore this or attempt to justify their jihad and militance at our own risk. It is better to know the enemy than to pretend they do not exist.

    When I say enemy, I do not man I have made an enemy of anyone, but they have made themselves enemies. I am admonished to love my enemy, and this I will obey, but this doesn’t mean I lie down and ignore the threat they pose to peace.

    I am also called to love my enemy and my brother. This may produce a conflict of interests during which I have to make a decision which of these people I am called to love I will defend in the name of love and reason.

    Only the leading of the Holy Spirit will give me the solution to this dilemma.

    But mocking Christians for pointing out that Islam in some quarters is responsible in our times for atrocities in the name of their religion seems inappropriate.

  19. Bones (quoting a spurious wikipedia claim under the heading ‘Christian Terrosm’),
    Fourteen traditionalist shamans about to form a shamanic school and association were murdered in Peru over a period of several months prior to October 2011. The murders were allegedly committed by, and/or at the behest of, the local mayor and a group of other evangelical Christians.

    No evidence, no convictions and no charges laid, only supposition by someone who added a wikipedia entry based on a Guardian newspaper report. This is typical of the web page Bones’ quoted from.

    That would be why, one suggests, Bones didn’t reveal te source of the quote. I’d be too ashamed to admit it too.

    Now, it may be that where these Peruvian murders took place associates of the mayor were in some way responsible, even though no charges have been laid, and no religious association proven, but the fact that Bones had to go to a wikipedia entry which contained a short list of mostly unproven allegations against Christian sects, some of which could not have been Christian, such as Norway’s lone killer Anders Brevik and Uganda’s Lord’s Resistance Army, two examples of nut-cases and extremists who are antichristian as much as anything else, demonstrates the comparatively low incidences of current or recent Christian activities against others, the comparison being with Islamic extremists.

    The British entry included the gun-powder plot! I kid you not! Guy Fawkes!

    Conversely, if I had a mind to, I am certain that I could present a very long list of modern, current and recent atrocities carried out by Islamic extremists in the name of Allah. They would cover several nations of the world. They would all be claimed by an organisation identifying with the religion Islam, by extremists who not only demonstrate their guilt by their own claims, but boast about the murderous acts they have performed.

    In fact, a quick look at the ‘Islamic Terrorism’ page would tell you that they are far more active and far more dangerous in this decade than any Christian group Bones could throw into the hat.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

    And their definition? ‘Islamic terrorism is a form of religious terrorism[1] committed by Muslims to achieve varying political ends in the name of religion.’

  20. Christian terrorism comprises terrorist acts by groups or individuals who claim Christian motivations or goals for their actions. As with other forms of religious terrorism, Christian terrorists have relied on idiosyncratic or literal interpretations of the tenets of faith – in this case, the Bible. Such groups have cited Old Testament and New Testament scriptures to justify violence and killing or to seek to bring about the “end times” described in the New Testament,[1] while others have hoped to bring about a Christian theocracy.[2][3]

    The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), a rebel group operating in Tripura, North-East India, has been described as engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs.[14] The NLFT is currently proscribed as a terrorist organization in India.[15][16] It is classified by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism as one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world, and has been accused of forcefully converting people to Christianity.[17][18] The insurgency in Nagaland was originally led by the National Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN), and it is continued today by a faction named “NSCN–Isaac Muivah”, which explicitly calls for a “Nagalim for Christ”.[19] The state government reports that the Baptist Church of Tripura supplies arms and gives financial support to the NLFT.[17][18][20] In April 2000, the secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, Nagmanlal Halam, was arrested with a large quantity of explosives.

    He confessed to illegally buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT for two years.[20][21] The NLFT has threatened to kill Hindus celebrating the annual five-day religious festival of Durga Puja and other religious celebrations.[22] At least 20 Hindus in Tripura have been killed by the NLFT in two years for resisting forced conversion to Christianity.[23] A leader of the Jamatia tribe, Rampada Jamatia, said that armed NLFT militants were forcibly converting tribal villagers to Christianity, which he said was a serious threat to Hinduism.[23] It is believed that as many as 5,000 tribal villagers were converted over two years.[23] These forcible conversions to Christianity, sometimes including the use of “rape as a means of intimidation,” have also been noted by academics outside of India.[24]

    In early 2000, 16 Bengali Hindus were killed by the NLFT at Gourangatilla. On May 20, 2000, the NLFT killed 25 Bengali Hindus at the Bagber refugee camp.[25] In August 2000, a tribal Hindu spiritual leader, Shanti Kali, was shot dead by about ten NLFT guerrillas who said it wanted to convert all people in the state to Christianity.[26] In December 2000, Labh Kumar Jamatia, a religious leader of the state’s second largest Hindu group, was kidnapped by the NLFT, and found dead in a forest in Dalak village in southern Tripura. According to police, rebels from the NLFT wanted Jamatia to convert to Christianity, but he refused.[27] A local Marxist tribal leader, Kishore Debbarma, was clubbed to death in Tripura’s Sadar by militants from the Biswamohan faction of the NLFT in May 2005.[28] His body was found with multiple head injuries in a roadside ditch in the Katabon area.

    John Joseph, the Christian representative of the National Minority Commission, stated in 2000 that foreign funds used for Christian terrorism in the northeast are routed through Christians in Kerala.[29]

    In Assam in 2009, the Manmasi National Christian Army (MNCA), an extremist group from the Hmar tribe, were charged with forcing Hindus to convert at gunpoint.[30] Seven or more Hmar youths were charged with visiting Bhuvan Pahar, a Hindu village, armed with guns, and pressuring residents to convert to Christianity.[31] They also desecrated temples by painting crosses on the walls with their blood.[31] The Sonai police, along with the 5th Assam Rifles, arrested 13 members of the MNCA, including their commander-in-chief. Guns and ammunition were seized.[31][32]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

  21. I’ll take your word that it’s spurious.

    Hang on it’s the Peruvian Times

    Report: 14 Shamans Killed in Loreto Region

    Peru’s government said Tuesday that 14 shamans in the country’s north-eastern jungle region of Loreto have been murdered in the past 20 months, newspaper La Republica reported.

    Deputy Intercultural Minister Vicente Otta Rivera said the murders occurred in the Balsa Puerto district, near Yurimaguas in the Alto Amazonas province.

    The provincial prosecutor’s office said that the murders were allegedly ordered by the mayor of Balsa Puerto, Alfredo Torres, and carried out by his brother, Augusto, locally known as “the witch hunter.” Only seven bodies have been found, however —either shot, stabbed or hacked with machetes. The seven other shamans have been reported missing.

    Rogger Rumrill, a leading researcher on Amazonian issues, said the murders are related to “protestant sects” that Torres and his brother belong to, the daily said.

    “For these protestant sects, the shamans are people possessed by demons, so they have to be killed,” Rumrill said.

    The shamans, folk healers who are repositeries of ancient herbal lore, are from the Shaui community, one of the 13 ethnolinguistic groups in Peru’s Amazonia. They had been planning to form an association to share their knowledge collectively.

    Speaking on Radio Programas Peru, Torres denied any responsibility in the murders and said that the killings were revenge by families of people who the shaman had unsuccessfully tried to heal.

    “For many years they have practiced the ancient custom of killing the witches, making them responsible for the death of some family member who was receiving treatment from the shaman,” said Torres.

    http://www.peruviantimes.com/05/report-14-shamans-killed-in-loreto-region/13843/

  22. What’s it all about, Bones? Why are you pushing so hard to find something, anything which will denounce Christians as the perpetrators of wicked crimes as a seeming defence against the growing evil of Islamic militant violence?

    The story you placed here as an equivalence is the closest you can come to an actual charge, but no one has been charged, and no one has claimed responsibility. It is, unless someone is brought to justice, or admits responsibility, speculation.

    As I said it may have some merit to claim it is Christian violence, but, since it is you who desperately seeks an equivalence, compared to what is taking place worldwide in front of your eyes it is not a widespread occurrence, whereas Islamic militant violence is.

    Or are you denying this?

    Today…

    A pair of suicide bombers blew themselves up outside a 130-year-old Anglican church in Pakistan after the Sunday service, killing at least 78 people in the deadliest attack in recent history on Christians in the predominantly Muslim country.

    Explosions struck the historic white-stone All Saints Church in the city of Peshawar, near the frontier tribal areas where Islamist militants have their strongholds, as hundreds of parishioners, many of them women and children, streamed out of the building.

    “I heard two explosions. People started to run. Human remains were strewn all over the church,” said one parishioner, who gave only her first name, Margrette.

    Her voice breaking with emotion, she said she had not seen her sister since the explosions ripped through the area around the gate of the church enclosure.

    Interior minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan said the death toll included 34 women and seven children. More than 100 people were wounded.

    “Who are these terrorists, killing women and children?” Mr Nisar said.

    The Taliban-linked militant group TTP Jundullah claimed responsibility within hours of the attack.

    “They are the enemies of Islam, therefore we target them,” said the group’s spokesman, Ahmed Marwat.

    We will continue our attacks on non-Muslims on Pakistani land.”

    Peshawar’s commissioner Sahibzada Anees told reporters the bombers struck when the service had just ended.

    “Most of the wounded are in critical condition,” Mr Anees said, adding special security had been in force to protect the church.

    “We are in an area which is a target of terrorism and within that area there was a special security arrangement for the church.

    “We are in a rescue phase and once it is over we will investigate what went wrong,” he said.

    Schoolteacher Nazir Khan, 50, said at least 400 worshippers were greeting each other when there was a huge explosion.

    “A huge blast threw me on the floor and as soon as I regained my senses, a second blast took place and I saw wounded people everywhere,” Mr Khan said.

    Grieved relatives gathered outside the church and shouted slogans against police over the security lapse.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-22/suicide-bomber-strikes-pakistani-church/4973762

    So what on earth is it all about, Bones? Why are you defending this disgraceful sectarian part of this religion?

  23. So if the IRA ever restart their bombing campaign are you going to call it a Christian war?

    You just don’t get it, do you.

    There are f**king extremists in every religion.

  24. What we know is that there are very few extremists in Christian circles, which is why you struggled to find any, but there are several on the go in Islamic circles. You were the one who raised Christians as an equivalence. I did not. I merely pointed out that the militants are continuing their activities.

    The Kenyan terrorists asked Muslims to identify themselves so they could release them. Any who claimed to be Muslim by could not name Mohammad’s mum were shot. Children were murdered. They attacked during a children’s day at the centre.

    All you could do was look for something bad to do with Christians.

    No condemnation of the terrosist’s actions, only of Christians from 2011 in an alleged attack.

    You should be at least upset about what is happening. You say nothing about the church in Pakistan which was attacked yesterday. By militant Islamists.

    Extremists. Everywhere. In the name of one particular religion.

  25. Christian extremists acted exactly the same in the past and when not subject to the laws of secular society will act the same again.

    Religion can never be used as a basis for a society unless it recognises the rights of everyone to their own beliefs.

    Secular society puts limits on religion and makes religion accountable to the laws of the land.

    Middle eastern countries have no such secular laws but have been subject to authoritarian and draconian laws.

    Islamic extremists are where christian extremists were in the middle ages.

  26. There’s no need for a ‘blame game’. The militants in every case claimed responsibility.

    The point of the post and discussion is to make the observation that there is mounting conflict in a growing number of Islamic nations.

    The Kenyan attacks have taken them into a predominantly Christian nation. The Pakistani attack was on Christians.

    All you have sought to do is muddy up the waters of what is a clear admission of guilt by militants by seeking a Christian equivalent.

    In view of the people who have been affected in the last few days, your attempt at obfuscation of the evidence is close to being inexcusably wicked.

    Are you so blasé about children being murdered in shopping centres and churches that you can flippantly make an argument for antichristian sentiment and ignore the horror of what is happening globally through the widespread terror machines.

    You’ll cry out in dismay over your children’s future being potentially hampered by the fumes from the car you drive to work, but stuff the children in the Kenyan shopping centre who were mercilessly slaughtered, or the families terminated by militants whilst attending church in Pakistan.

  27. Bones (with unbelievable irony),
    ‘Everyone knows its evil. We choose not to engage in the blame game that you want to play.’

    Unless they are Christian, eh!

  28. “Christian terrorism comprises terrorist acts by groups or individuals who claim …”

    Yeah and replace Christian with Buddhist or tennis players.

    There are probably some old Catholic ladies that drink too much and take a swipe at each other in Sydney, but do we bring that up when yet another young man punches someone and kills them in Kings Cross?

    “Islamic extremists are where christian extremists were in the middle ages.”

    Okay I get it. Go and tell the families of those killed in Kenya and the ones in the church in Pakistan to just be patient and wait a few centuries.

    “So if the IRA ever restart their bombing campaign are you going to call it a Christian war?”

    If the IRA were bombing people in multiple countries and asking people if they were Catholics and letting them go and just executing the others – and blowing up mosques and shrines and temples in Africa and Australia because of what was happening in Ireland…then I think it’s safe to say that people would be getting wary of Irish Catholics.

    And actually, I remember watching a special on TV about charismatic Catholics and Protestants in Ireland getting together.

    In the old days I liked to tell people that the situation in Ireland had absolutely nothing to do with religion, but it was a hard sell.

    “You just don’t get it, do you.There are extremists in every religion.”

    I get it. If every week extremist Rustafarians were blowing people up in many different countries, I’d probably have something to say about Rustafarians.

    Most of the world gets this Bones. When people complain about being scared of dogs after getting bitten do you get outraged and tell them that butterflies bite too sometimes?

    Bones, please go and live in a Muslim country. They’d love you.
    Probably even let you complain about the US for a while before they cut off your head. Though your head would probably still be scolding people for mentioning Islam.

    I wish the Muslim extremists would be like the Austalian fundamentalist extremists like Hillsong that you complain about.

    Wouldn’t it be a great world if Muslim extremists gave too much in offering, a few Imams had private jets, and Meccasong was dominating the music charts.

    Bones, there are no doubt extremists. Please get rid of the Muslim extremists for us. I can live with the Buddhist and Christian extremists.
    And so can those that went shopping in Nairobi the other day.

  29. “is close to being inexcusably wicked.”

    Yeah I think so. A Christian man who starts angrily swearing because people talk about Muslim terrorism after the news of the last two days?

    Pretty hard to understand.

  30. Just doing what you’re doing. You wish to tar the many with the actions of a few.

    Of course youre indignant when that happens.

    These extremists would have no problem with necking liberal imams who tell them to
    stop.

    Yeah i’ll take a squad over and get rid of your extremists for you. If they know Mohammads mothers name itll be a simple neck shot..

  31. Well you’re quite wrong. I have not tarred many with the actions of a few. I have made the point that the supposed few have enlarged and escalated their efforts.

    You say you have merely responded in kind, but why? What motive would you have to ignore the atrocities so clearly displayed and attempt to find some equivalent as a defence for terror?

    There is no equvalent today to the Islamic militant destructive terrorism.

    Have you not noticed that I have called them militants? That separates them from moderate Muslims! many of whom would be horrified by what is taking place in the name of their religion.

    As Q stated, if it was the IRA taking their violence to other lands I would be just as vocal. In racy they did in the 70s take it to Birmingham in UK. It was a devastating escalation. It was wrong and evil.

    You have consistently protected your position of anger towards Christians when the perpetrators of the crimes on this thread were Islamic militants who have claimed they are carrying the terror out in the name of Islam.

    The IRA were Catholics, but they claimed their cause was in the name of justice, not of conquest, or religion, despite their religious affiliations.

    Thee is no justice to these attacks, nor to your arguments against Christians in the face of Islamic terror which you are, by your attacks on Christians and those who point out the injustice of the Islamic militants, defending to the hilt.

  32. The truth is that extremists slander their own religion.

    I feel for the vast majority of good Muslims whose faith has been shat on by these animals.

    They of course have to put up with the fallout that all Muslims are terrorists, animals, wanting to promote sharia law.

    I was part of a forum the other day where atheists were goading a Catholic into why he wouldn’t leave the Catholic Church over paedophile priests and cover ups.

    The truth is that these disgusting criminals have gone against their own Church’s teaching and abused Christ and the victim which they were to defend.

    They have also brought shame and humiliation to every good Catholic like my brother.

    And they will have to live with it.

  33. All Christians suffer from the wickedness of the pedophile priests. We are all associated with Catholics, and therefore with their ministers. It is up to us, then, to exhibit our disgust and disappointment with their actions and not hide it away or attempt to obfuscate their sin with moral equivalents.

    But then we also have an obligation to place them in the hands of Christ, either for his judgment or mercy depending on his way of dealing with them and their sin. This is harder.

    Paul once delivered man up to satan for the destruction of his flesh, not as a punishment, but as a means of deliverance, so that his flesh was destroyed but his soul saved before his sin completely separated him from God’s mercy.

    These are hard things indeed.

  34. ” It is up to us, then, to exhibit our disgust and disappointment with their actions and not hide it away or attempt to obfuscate their sin with moral equivalents.”

    Exactly. And what the world is waiting for is for all of Bones poor good Muslims to show their outrage.

    Another suicide bombing at a funeral in Iraq.

    What is it about Muslim countries? Take away the murderous dictator and you are left with more murder!

  35. We get pissed off at you two idiots because you consistently call it Muslim terrorism when it has. Itching whatsoever to do with Islam! It’s political and power based violence…not religious! Fuck me you two are blind

  36. All Christians suffer from the wickedness of the pedophile priests.

    All Muslims suffer from the wickedness of Islamic terrorists.

    Now f**k off..

  37. “we get pissed off at you two idiots because you consistently call it Muslim terrorism ”

    Sorry. Islamic terrorism?

    Calm down.

  38. Bones, in a suden flash of reality,
    All Muslims suffer from the wickedness of Islamic terrorists.

    Well done, Bones. You finally opened your eyes to a reality.

    And old Greg there, flushed with the same vocabulary of hate, streams froth his own form of denialism. No, he says, Islam is not religion!

    I have never said they are ‘Muslim Terrorists’. I called them ‘Islamic militants’, separating them from Muslim moderates, or maybe you haven’t read through the whole thread so missed what was said earlier.

    You see, Greg, they are Islamic, and they are militant. They are also Muslim and spreading terror, but we wouldn’t want to confuse the lurkers here with jargon such as ‘Muslim terrorists’ to describe Muslims who spread terror, would we? I mean not all Muslims are terrorists, only a few.

    How many Muslims did you engage today, Greg, Bones? I spoke to at least half a dozen. I treated them with respect and curtesy and in a friendly manner because I know they are not terrorists or militant, just good people who worship Allah. I should think they hate the murderers and killers of innocent children as much as I do. They’d be odd if they didn’t. Don’t you have any soul, any pity, or compassion?

    You two really are the pits sometimes.

    I am angry at the Islamic militants because they have gone on a killing spree involving totally innocent people form another religion, and done so on religious grounds. You think killing Christians was not a religious act? You think singling out Muslims to be let off was not a religious act?

    You? You are only angry at me and Q for being upset for the Kenyans and the Pakistani Christians, not to mention the innocent Muslims in Lebanese mosques who were ripped to shreds by Islamic militants who planted bombs as a message in their civil war.

    I’m going nowhere Bones. Unless Greg bans me, that is.

  39. I spoke to at least half a dozen. I treated them with respect and curtesy and in a friendly manner because I know they are not terrorists or militant,

    Sounds two faced and hypocritical compared to what you posted here.

    Print it out and show them and see how you go.

    Islam – “Religion of Peace” Yeah right – (spit). Tell em how you feel about that.

  40. It’s just terrorism!!! Plain and simple! Evil and must be stopped…but it won’t be. People the world over have been solving conflict using violence since Adam had 2 sons (don’t bother mentioning I don’t believe in Adam!) and until there is some kind of world wide awakening, it will continue thus.

    It is wrong to label it Christian, Islamic, or even soccer terrorism…it’s just fucking terrorism! It’s not owned by any one religion…we keep swapping ownership so as to keep each other confused…it’s a world problem and scapegoating any person or ideology or religion is not going to solve it.

  41. You don’t believe in Adam, Greg.

    Bones, if they didn’t agree with me that murdering innocent women and children is evil I’d wonder whether they were as callous as you and Greg.

    What, you don’t think I can tell the difference between a murderous fanatic and a peace loving Muslim? They’re not al Islamic militants you know.

    But what makes them militant? What makes them want to kill Jews and Christians? Are the madrases to blame? What do they teach? The koran. Religion. Or some of the more aggressive mosques and imams? What do they preach? Hate. Religion.

    What? You think all religion is peaceful and none-aggessive?

    You’re mad!

  42. The rest of those named in the indictment had already gone overseas, Just reading the news from CNN. Just one article among many about “ISLAMIC” terrorism. (Not Muslim). Is that better..?

    “including Omar Al-Hammami, who became something of a jihadist rock star before falling out with the group and dying in a fratricidal ambush in 2012.
    “Hammami differed from many of the other recruits. He was raised a Baptist in Alabama, but converted to Islam as a young man and created rap-style recruiting videos that bridged American and Somali culture.”

    Okay, my fault is that I need to be careful about the use of the words Muslim and Islamic.

    I’m not the only one confused though. Many people were reporting that the Islamic terrorists were asking people if they were Muslims.

    Am I allowed to refer to the Muslim Brotherhood? Or should I say “so called “Muslim” but not really Muslim, possibly “Islamic” if it pleases Bones and Greg Brotherhood…..??

    Man, after all the attacks here on HIllsong, evangelicals, your glee at the latest crime down by a Christian anywhere in the world reported over at groupsects, you guys have a really strange passion for defending the Islamic….you know whatever it’s called “faith”.

    Not thinking of converting are you? Actually, you’d probably fit in! lol

    Swearing and yelling and foaming at the mouth defending your religion of peace.

    Peace? I guess it means different things to different people…

    Anyway, sorry for the use of the word Muslim. Unfortunately I’ve seen it on the news too many times recently. For years actually, but it just seems to be increasing.

    My thought for today. Given that just reporting the news and mourning about the amount of death and mayhem caused by “false” Islamic…people – causes such foul language and anger by you two, do you really honestly think you would display the same love patience and understanding if you loved ones were dead down at the mall?

    You can’t even talk through an issue without swearing and raving?
    And yet you talk about love and peace and understanding.

    Oh I get it. You hate Christians who you think don’t love……

    Think about it.

    No doubt you’re proud of your humility too.

    But here’s the question. Do you two have any solutions?
    Is Kenya and Pakistan our fault? Should the US or Israel apologize or something? Maybe Billy Graham or the Pope could apologize for the crusades? Is that the deal?

    NIgerians, Kenyans, Egyptians, Syrians blowing people up in the name of Islam. And US and UK born Christians who became Muslim (oh, sorry – don’t mention the war!!!!) Even a pretty white girl who married a M.. mu….eh…..someone who didn’t understand Islam but thought they did enough to blow people up on the tube…..
    and she became a m m m

    (wait – don’t mention the word Muslim Steve – I did but I think I got away with it.)

    no i didn’t…..Bones is back to throwing the F bomb. And Greg is on a crusade….(sorry – bad word) to kick people out who mention the M word.

    Let’s pray there is no more Islamic terrorism today in the world.

    Sorry

  43. I used to often eat lunch with Muslims at work. Was invited to his house.
    I understand that there are Muslims who aren’t killing people as we speak.
    You know many Muslims there in Bundaberg Bones?

  44. Bones, if they didn’t agree with me that murdering innocent women and children is evil I’d wonder whether they were as callous as you and Greg.

    Yeah that’s what we’ve been doing dickhead.

    We’re defending terrorists. We think it’s good that little kiddies get shot up by terrorists.

    You are truly f**ked in the head!

  45. And that’s the irony. Had lunch with a passionate Muslim many times.

    I seem to be able to get on with some Muslims. The ones I have problems with are the ones shooting, killing, stabbing, raping, bombing all over the world, and some people who call themselves Christians but swear their heads off at me when I lament the fact that men walked into a church and blew up 80 protestant men women and children.

    Do you at least agree with the statement that it would be great if all the Muslims in the world became Christians and followed Jesus and experienced his love?

    Or will i get a stream of abuse for that? Perhaps it’s wrong to pray or hope for people to believe in Jesus instead of Islam?

    What say the “Signposts Liberal Christians for Islam and Against Evangelical Christianity Brotherhood” representatives.

    Oh…and simmer down folks. You haven’t been blown up or lost a loved one to ……counterfeit religious terrorists..

  46. I love it when bones and Greg resort to the cursing and expletives. You know then that the argument for them is well and truly lost and they have nowhere to go but the gutter.

    They have both even attempted a put down of C3 and Phil Pringle. Why? Because they know I attend a C3 church and he is the leader of the movement. Psychologically, if you wee analysing what they are attempting, they are trying to hit out at me through my associations. It’s a baby-talk nananenana! Unbelievable.

    Have you ever seen anything as juvenile as this in a blog discussion?

    Pathetic!

  47. Another day in militant Islam.

    Suspected Islamist gunmen have attacked a college in north-eastern Nigeria, killing up to 50 students.

    The students were shot dead as they slept in their dormitory at the College of Agriculture in Yobe state.

    North-eastern Nigeria is under a state of emergency amid an Islamist insurgency by the Boko Haram group.

    Boko Haram is fighting to overthrow Nigeria’s government to create an Islamic state, and has launched a number of attacks on schools.

    Classrooms burned
    Casualty figures from the latest attack vary, but a local politician told the BBC that around 50 students had been killed.

    The politician said two vanloads of bodies had been taken to a hospital in Yobe’s state capital, Damaturu.

    A witness quoted by Reuters news agency counted 40 bodies at the hospital, mostly those of young men believed to be students.

    College provost Molima Idi Mato, speaking to Associated Press, also said the number of dead could be as high as 50, adding that security forces were still recovering the bodies and that about 1,000 students had fled the campus.

    A Nigerian military source told AP that soldiers had collected 42 bodies.

    The gunmen also set fire to classrooms, a military spokesman in Yobe state, Lazarus Eli, told Agence France-Presse.

    The college is in the rural Gujba district.

    In May, President Goodluck Jonathan ordered an operation against Boko Haram, and a state of emergency was declared for the north-east on 14 May.

    Many of the Islamist militants left their bases in the north-east and violence initially fell, but revenge attacks quickly followed.

    In June, Boko Haram carried out two attacks on schools in the region.

    At least nine children were killed in a school on the outskirts of Maiduguri, while 13 students and teachers were killed in a school in Damaturu.

    In July in the village of Mamudo in Yobe state, Islamist militants attacked a school’s dormitories with guns and explosives, killing at least 42 people, mostly students.

    Boko Haram regards schools as a symbol of Western culture. The group’s name translates as “Western education is forbidden”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-24322683

    These are really brave soldiers of Mohammed aren’t they! Filthy cowards, killing unarmed civilian school-children and students while they sleep.

    Poisoned by their own warped culture and religion.

    May the millstone round their neck come swiftly.

  48. How the jidahists recruit young Kenyans from the madrases to fight in Somalia.

    I interviewed two young Kenyan al-Shabab recruits who had travelled through a network such as this one to join al-Shabab in Somalia. They did not wish to be called by their real names.

    They had been promised money for their families back home and a place in paradise as a reward for their commitment.

    When they arrived in Somalia, their dreams of jihad and glory were shattered.

    Ali said he was 13 or 14 when he travelled to Somalia. He described being forced to watch the beheading of a recruit who had tried to escape from the al-Shabab camp in Kismayo.

    “His hands and legs were tied behind his back. They made him kneel down and then they took a very sharp knife, right in front of me, and slaughtered him.

    “He was screaming, like an animal, the way a goat can be slaughtered.”

    It was a shocking warning to others who might contemplate running away.

    Ali was traumatised by what he saw and still has nightmares about the horror he witnessed.

    Despite all the risks involved, he managed to escape and make it back to Nairobi. He now lives away from his family because he fears he would be killed if he were identified as an al-Shabab deserter.

    Khalid said it was Sheikh Rogo who encouraged him to travel to Somalia and become a jihadi.

    “He used to tell us: ‘Instead of sitting in the slum doing nothing, it’s better to go to Somalia and fight for your religion, you’ll go straight to heaven.'”

    Khalid was also shocked by what he experienced in Somalia. He said he knew of children as young as six and seven having been used as suicide bombers by al-Shabab.

    Both men had travelled to Somalia in the expectation of fighting jihad but found themselves being ordered to act as cooks and babysitters for even younger jihadis.

    Many of the young Kenyan Muslims who travel to Somalia are still at school. Often, the authorities only learn about their decision to join al-Shabab when mothers report them as missing.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-24263357

  49. And there’s good news for Muslims. Al Queda etc are realizing that their old policy of just blowing up everyone including Muslims has lost them support among Muslims.

    So what we saw at Westgate is the new style that we will see more of. Ask people if they are Muslims and if they are let them go and then slaughter the rest.

    Actually, you’d think Muslims would be outraged but evidently the new policy is popular.

    We all thought that this kind of barbarity had gone from the world but it’s still there – everywhere in the world where there are Islamic terrorist groups in action.

    Why?

    The country names change but the common features of work of Islamic terrorists are chopping off heads, shooting people while they sleep, burning people alive…

    Why?

  50. No, wazza, State sponsored schools and colleges engender more terrorism.

    What is it with you that you can’t say one thing which lays the blame at the feet of murderous curs?

  51. Wrong Wazza.

    But your answer shows that terrorism is here to stay. Wazza, thinks this is justified.

    No, this is ridiculous. Wazza, go look up the spread of Islam PRIOR to the crusades.

    Just in case you also want to preach the line that people are upset about the crusades too.

    So the people killed in Nigeria and Kenya, Bali, Indonesia, Pakistan, England, the men assassinated ostensibly over comic books, and translations of novels – this is all because of state-sponsored terrorism?

    And if these “states” stop it, all the Muslim groups will say “Great, that’s all we wanted”.

    You really think that? Honestly?

    If so, I’d like to sell you a beautiful bridge in Mecca.

    You know, I got angry reading the latest news about kids rounded up and slaughtered in that school, but I actually feel a stronger emotion when gullible white people come out with stuff like that.

    So Wazza, can you tell your friends to write books, and blogs and hold demonstrations as a better way of protest against SST. T-shirts even.

    “No more SST” T-shirts worn at a rally where Wazza speaks. I’d even listen to you then.
    Your friend Obama efforts in Pakistan and his trying to rally the troops for something in Syria. Is that SST too?

  52. If the trends continue – what will be the end of all this. Team Wazza who are all for gay marriage etc and Team Islam.

    Western countries full of Muslims and liberals. I see a hard time coming. They will be a tougher bunch to argue with. Have fun Wazza.

  53. What is it with you that you can’t say one thing which lays the blame at the feet of murderous curs?

    Nothing justifies going to a school in a Nigeria, killing students and herding others into groups and shooting them. Nothing.

    Nothing justifies going to a shopping mall and shooting people who don’t know the answers to Islamic trivial pursuit. Nothing.

  54. “Islamic terrorists dressed in Nigerian military uniforms assaulted a college inside the country Sunday, gunning down dozens of students as they slept in their dorms and shot others trying to flee, ”

    Everyday in the news there’s something else. And regardless of the high and lofty aims Wazza things these people have, most of the people doing the killing probably haven’t been outside their own countries and don’t know anything about world history or politics.

    This website is subtitled “theology for the road”.

    How do we as Christians living in secular democratic nations, love our enemies but do what we can to stop the killing of innocent non-Muslims in many countries of the world at the hands of Islamic-terrorists.

    According to Bones, we can’t use the military. So, we just keep praying and doing good works like agitating for gay marriage and no more Christmas in schools?

  55. I can’t think of anything more cowardly or perverted than shooting students in their beds whilst they sleep in cold blood.

    And all wazza can come up with is that it was the fault of some State or other which offended these spineless psychopaths so therefore it is not their fault, but the fault of those who feel compelled to defend themselves from these lily-livered religious maniacs, and cut them off at the roots.

    He thinks the solution is appeasement of madmen and their psychotic death squads of trained from birth to be killers.

    The sick part of what wazza says is that many of these teenage murderers have been recruited, armed and trained by religious fanatics who consider themselves to be the only State to which all people should answer, and whose only aim in life, or death, is to frighten the wits out of everyone and anyone who opposes their violence and hatred of all and anything which is not them.

    If they were fighting real soldiers in a real war they could call themselves warriors. But murdering children and youth in their beds is utterly despicable and beyond reproach.

  56. And here is what I find the hardest to understand.

    Wazza and Co will seek to explain the actions of the vilest terrorist actions. It’s like it’s so had to just get a simple condemnation of it. After streams of comments back and forth as to why the real fault is Israel or the US or some Pope during the crusades, finally Bones will say okay terrorism is wrong and paste it 20 times. But, clearly the normal human response of outrage isn’t there.

    On the other hand, there is no grace given to something has harmless as young kids joining a church where the music sounds poppy!

    So you get this wish to explain murdering kids in beds, and torturing people who don’t know names, but on the other hand, the desire to criticize a church for the way they sing!

    How do you explain that.

    Straining at gnats when it comes to a growing church, and being willing to argue why they are wrong, bad, harmful. But, another day of bombing and we should be trying to understand their pain.

    Totally bewildered when I read the news in the morning about the latest beheading and torture, and story of women who had their kids murdered. That doesn’t register on the pages of singposts and the sister site group sects. There the news that everyone needs to be concerned with is what? Worship songs that just sound a little too poppy. Or a joke about Asians made by a pastor who apologised. Or of course a man who used church funds for his wife’s singing career.

    Can you imagine the peace and bliss in the world if the Imams and leaders of the various Islamic groups forsook murder and mayhem and instead used offerings for Mecca to bolster their wive’s singing career?

    The women and kids of Nigeria, Kenya, Pakistan, etc etc would rejoice.

    It’s simply amazing the things that anger people and keep them occupied.

    As Robbins would say, it all depends on where your focus is. Most of the world is concerned about being able to send their kids to school without getting butchered, or being able to go shopping without having your hand cut off if you don’t know the name of some religious prophet’s mother. But some other people are concerned with giving attention to anything in the church they think is wrong. Even if it’s the songs…..

    A gay atheist thinks worship songs in a growing church are sexual. Oh no, let’s do something about it!! Let’s wring our hands and blog about it. The sky is falling.

    KIds murdered in their beds?
    Well, you know these things will happen as long as somewhere in the world there is state sponsored terrorism. Or perhaps even the memory of it? And even if nobody will remember, there’s those accounts of the crusades. Yep, that’s worth at least a few students lives somewhere.

    What’s up with that?

  57. Q,
    How do you explain that.

    Beats me.

    Bones’ vehement and passionate defence of Tim Flannely was impressive in its fervency and gusto, despite its futility, but his grudging admission that Islamic terror is evil after days of pressing for confirmation that he wasn’t supporting their cause was incomprehensible. Wazza and Greg even reasoned for their cause.

    Senseless. Every part of this evil uprising is senseless.

  58. One for those who support the notion that was the US’ fault they were targeted on 9/11 as articulate and caring atheist Christopher Hitchins demolishes 9/11 conspiracist and Islamic militant supporting socialist George Galloway.

    Brilliant, Christopher. I really hope God blessed you for the depths of your honesty.

  59. Well, I had hoped to see what you described as the destruction of Mr Galloway’s thesis by Hitchings, however all I saw was a poorly cut up hodge podge of a video that presented two opposing views. No destruction of anyone at all. Biggest disappointment I’ve had today! (I’ve only been awake 20 minutes)

  60. George is one of those contrarians who has support but always picks his fight with he wrong people. Hitchins was being kind.

  61. I didn’t say it was a destruction. But I differ in opinion. I think Galloway was given a sound ticking off. His premise is monstrous and sensationalist.

    As Hitchins says, even if Galloway is right, and he argued from this perspective, if Galloway is right, by fighting militant Islamic terror the US are masochists, but they are fighting sadists.

    Why are the US masochists, because Galloway claims they are causing the sadistic Islamists to be very angry at them for fighting back and standing up to terror.

    That is a smart response, and very true, using Galloway’s own flawed argument.

    Demolished.

  62. Look no sensible thinking human being who cherishes life can justify or even attempt to justify the actions of those evil people.

    George Galloway?

    Send him to live with the terrorists. How long would they let that clown rave before they cut his head off?

    The Muslims and leftists and gay marriage supporters should just live in one part of the world and the sane people in another. Then just wait a few years. Or months even.

    Galloway and LWLs on signpost would start begging for the US to save them.

  63. Galloway and LWLs on signpost would start begging for the US to save them.

    So have you Righties worked out which side in Syria you want Obama to blow up yet or not?

    The Brits have opted out.

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