USA Assemblies of God (AG) Pastor Dismissed For Encouraging His Church To Leave The Movement Due To Its Departure From Biblical Standards

USA Assemblies of God (AG) Pastor Dismissed For Encouraging His Church To Leave The Movement Due To Its Departure From Biblical Standards

The AG in the USA died a self inflicted spiritual, moral, and ethical death during the Pensacola fiasco under Thomas Trask, their former Czar in Springfield, Mo.

The heir to his throne, Dr. George Wood who actually authored a booklet attacking the Toronto Experience predecessor of Pensacola compromised when the same unbiblical phenomena he himself rightly condemned transpired within the AG. We find this hypocritical. Since that time Dr. Wood, a man we believe to know better, has ignored the unbiblical agenda of Rick Warren’s   marketing psychology oriented ‘Purpose Driven Lie’. A position he persists in defending despite Warren’s interfaith pronouncements at Davos, his contra scriptural definition of evangelism,  his ecumenism, his involvement with Yoga and apostate Brian McLaren at the 2004 National Pastor’s Conference, and his forwarding with McLaren of Dan Kimbell’s book “The Emergent Church”.

We applaud Jeffrey Whittaker acting as a shepherd instead of a hireling and helping lead his flock away from the wolves as Jesus commanded by leaving the AG, a move we believe any decent pastor would make in protection of The Lord’s flock.
The fact that the AG refused to allow him to resign but dismissed him from ministry despite their written admission that he followed due protocols, underscores what many discerning Christians will see as the ethical bankruptcy and abject pseudo spirituality of a backslidden movement.

The Assemblies of God in The USA, UK, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere is not the movement it once was but a very different movement with different doctrines that has hijacked the AG name.

From the folly of Pensacola and Thomas Trask, to the televised scandals of Hillsong and The Houstons, to the hideous hype artistry and biblical ignorance of Andrew Shearman in Britain, it is difficult for some people to view the AG leadership as anything more than a phony pack of theocratic hooligans who could give lessons in religious hypocrisy to the biblical Sanhedrin.

As a minister of the gospel of Jesus (not to be confused with the Gospel of George Wood’s friend Rick Warren) in a movement consisting of Pentecostal and Charismatic moderates who left declining movements like the AG and Elim, I extend my empathy to Jeffrey Whittacker. We would be honored to welcome him into credentialed fellowship with us at the Christian Ministerial Fellowship International (CMFI) should he wish to apply and recognition of his former AG ordination would be fairly automatic.

Meanwhile, Jeffrey L. Whittaker should wear his dismissal by the AG as a badge of honor.
It will count to his credit as a pastor on the Day of Judgment.

Below is the correspondence.

Here is rough draft of letter sent by Jeffrey L Whittaker

Dear Brethren of the General Presbytery,

It is with a very weary hand and mind that I pen this final appeal.  Having received Brother Palmer’s letter of June 11th notifying me of the Executive Presbytery’s decision, I am compelled to exhaust the last avenue afforded me by our Bylaws.  It is ironic that my question relates directly to those same Bylaws with reference to seeking a clear definition of my charges.  It has been made abundantly clear to me that my leadership role in the departure of Michiana Christian Embassy from the General Council of the Assemblies of God has met with your disapproval; that is to be expected by anyone of reasonable mind.  However, I simply desire to reiterate my basic question that has never been adequately answered by any level of leadership in our beloved movement.

WHERE, WITHIN THE BODY OF OUR DISTRICT OR GENERAL COUNCIL BYLAWS, IS IT DEFINED AS IMMORAL OR UNETHICAL FOR A LOCAL PASTOR WHO FOLLOWS BYLAW ARTICLE VI, Section 4, paragraph “d”, TO LEAD, COUNSEL, OR ADVISE A LOCAL, AUTONOMOUS ASSEMBLY IN THE ACT OF DISAFFILIATION?

I am not asking for a subjective statement of how this action makes the District and General Council Officials FEEL, but rather which AG Bylaw makes it illegal, immoral, and unethical.  Brother Palmer, you wrote in your letter:

While you followed proper protocol in how you led the church to disaffiliate, the ethical failure, in the view of the General Council Credentials Committee was that you had a part in the process.

“(I)n the view of the General Council Credentials Committee” is NOT equal in authority to “the view of the AG Constitution and Bylaws”.  By stating in Bylaw Article VI that the proper procedure for disaffiliation is that a church’s “pastor or board shall invite the district officers to participate in a specially called business meeting”, to then subsequently dismiss that same pastor as “immoral and unethical” for obeying the same Bylaws is beyond imagination.  Your present ruling is seen by all who read it as baseless and completely subjective, and perceive your reasoning as an absolute non sequitur. In addition, using Article X to support your decision for my dismissal is a classic example of circular reasoning.  Article X does not provide a legal explanation of my “alleged” moral and ethical failure, but merely labels a broad category which demands legal definition by a law explicitly describing an act as prohibited; something which the General Council Bylaws do not do in this case.

If you should choose to sponsor legislation at a future General Council to amend Articles VI or X to include explicit language forbidding credential holders from leading their local and autonomous churches in a legally defined action, very well; but as of today there is not one statement within our rules of order that supports this arbitrary, punitive, and libelous ruling!

Please answer this question using only accepted and approved AG Bylaws, or grant to me the resignation that true ethics, morals, and logic demand.  I know you do not agree with our decision, but you must recognize the fundamental right of our local church and I to make it.

Most earnestly and sincerely,

Jeffrey L. Whittaker

Their response was as follows:

June 11, 2008
Dear Jeffrey:

Greetings in the name of our living and loving Lord!
At the most recent meeting of the Executive presbytery, the following action was taken:
A Motion prevailed to deny the appeal of Jeffrey L. Whittaker that he be allowed to resign rather than be dismissed, based upon his ethical failure in leading an Assemblies of God church into a decision to pull out of the fellowship.
This decision was made after a great deal of prayerful discussion.  In making this decision it was duly noted that you and your church followed the proper procedures in terminating affiliation with the General Council of the AG (Article VI, Section 4, d).
While you followed proper protocol in how you led the church to disaffiliate, the ethical failure, in the view of the General Council Credentials Committee was that you had a part in the process.
According to Article X, Section 3, c, — “Any moral or ethical failure other than sexual misconduct” is a cause for disciplinary action.  It is the thoughtful opinion of the Executive Presbytery that you acted unethically by helping to disaffiliate a local church from the AG while you were an AG minister.

Thank you for your years of ministry with the AG.  I wish you well as you continue the ministry to which the Lord has called you.
The General Council bylaws do afford you the right of appeal to the General Presbytery (Article X, Section 10, c).

Sincerely,

John M. Palmer
General Secretary

Article is found here: http://moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/USA_ag_pastor_dismissed.htm


37 thoughts on “USA Assemblies of God (AG) Pastor Dismissed For Encouraging His Church To Leave The Movement Due To Its Departure From Biblical Standards

  1. Goodness – quite a dilemma. The ‘ethical failure’ that the pastor is accused of is that of leading his church to disaffiliate from the AoG in the USA while still an AoG pastor. The ethic applying seems to be one of loyalty. It appears he is expected to be loyal to the AG movement in the US while he remains a pastor within that movement, including in cases where he believes the movement has digressed from what it once was.

    His judgement about the overall position of his movement was that it had departed from the ways of God enough to split from it. Yet that judgement was technically to be subject to those ‘over’ him in the movement. So in a sense, his ethical failure seen from the AoG side would probably be lack of loyalty and lack of submission.

    He had no choice. In departing from the movement with his church, and acting as a genuine shepherd, assuming his judgement was correct, he was bound to be seen as failing ethically by those still in the movement. They would have preferred him to resign as an AoG pastor probably, rather than remain pastor of his local church and lead the church away with him. Yet acting as a true pastor of that particular group of God’s sheep, he had to put God’s call above that of his movement, and act as a true pastor beholden to God, not to man.

    The members of his church have to make their choice – stay with the movment or believe their pastor and go with him. At least in this situation they actually do need to examine the issues for themselves and make their choice accordingly. That is no bad thing.

  2. The AOG movement has become a whore, rather than a part of the bride of Christ. There has been travesty after travesty carried out in the “name of God” globally by so called men and women of God with thousands abused by this movement. The Australian AOG has now changed it’s name to something more modern or something to try and disguise the obscenities of it’s past?
    Hopefully some such as the leaders posted about will manage to rescue some of their flocks and lead them to safety.

  3. I was born and raised in the Assembly of God. I am 67 years old. My parents came to salvation through the Assembly of God in 1920. Through the years I have seen the church depart from the power of the Holy Spirit and the Pentecostal Experiance and turn to the slick techniques of men. I have witnessed failure in leadership not only in moral and ethical issues, which can and do happen because all men are subject to temptations, but worse I have seen the erosion on the part of the leadership in Springfield on both spiritual and doctrinal truths. And for those reasons I had to disassoiate myself from the church that I loved. While there are still many good pastors there are many more that are leading people in a feel good time of emotional release in the place of a true
    spiritual experiance. The power of the Holy Spirit has been replaced by the ability of a Praise and Worship Team to move emotions up or down. By the Drama Team that performs spiritual ? lessons for us as if we were unable to understand the word of
    God without a visual aid. And by a pastor that starts his sermon by telling some kind of funny story to warm up the crowd. We have gone from giving praise unto the Lord when special music is “performed” to applause which is really showing our appreciation for the talent of the Christian Performer. I have actually seen the congregation give a standing ovation and it certainly was not directed to the Lord. I also have seen how pastors not only have become unchallengeable, I have seen the leadership structure as a whole become unanswerable to anyone. I could go on and on but I would then become sour grapes. The bottom line is that the Assembly of God has seen it’s glory days (and I mean that spiritually and literally) and is become like the many other great denominations before it that once rose in the power and of authority God’s truth and Spirit only to whither and die as the power of the Spirit was replace by the ability of men. I will end this post with two verses from scripture.

    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.
    1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

  4. James, I was really interested to hear your perspective.

    How would you respond to the statement that the current AOG is reaching more people from non-church backgrounds, growing numerically, and has a higher profile than the AOG of yesterday?

  5. FAITH GOOD NEWS CHURCH

    D. NO. 11-258/A. RAJASHEKAR NAGAR.WYRA 507 165. KHAMMAM (DT) A.P. INDIA

    =====================================================================

    D. Venkata Narasaiah
    Pastor.

    To
    Dear Brother in Christ,

    Greetings in abundance to you through the propitious name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    At this juncture, I, Pastor. D. Venkata Narasaiah, would like to introduce myself that according to call given by the Lord Jesus Christ, on our respective ministry behalf was being done the most yeoman gospel and social services at our operational areas here in India. God had given us abundant physical strength and valour to spread the Gospel more vehemently. We are all doing the ministry with Faith and Trust. In all aspects God was being guided and paved the way to do the gospel in the most unreached areas and villages and to this extent, we are going ahead in a Righteousness, Honestness with decent wise and pious thoughts and plans. (Proverbs : 3:5, 6) (Job : 8:6) (Proverbs: 11:3)

    We were being rendered our gospel service for the last 9 years with dignity and also with God’s fear. We are sincerely conducting our Sunday worships in our Five Church congregations, Conducting Fasting Prayers, Special Pray Meetings for the Women, Allnight prayers, Revival Gospel meetings, Youth retreats, House to house visit to pray for the sick and needy and Sunday School for the children. Our specific focus and emphasis is among caste Hindu people localities. With our precious preaching so many Hindu people have been agreed Jesus Christ as their personal saviour and redeemer. As there are only 4% Christians here in India , as such, we must have to make hectic and strenuous efforts in all aspects (Isaiah : 40:28) (Isaiah: 55: 8, 9, 10).

    So far as our community development services for the following poor people in the society at our operational areas, orphan children, poor widows, poor old age people and few poor handicapped people, who are regular comers to our Churches. We are all meeting the expenses within the purview of our limited might and offerings.

    Therefore Sister as you too know pretty well as all these services are Herculean tasks and as such, we are humbly and earnestly requesting and imploring that please kindly pray for the total augmentation of our respective ministry here in India.

    With pleasure, your physical presence here with us is highly solicited according to your tentative schedule and as per God’s Will. We will pray for your visit to India and its grand success. We do hope you may react peacefully and consider our this specific request with kind heart and also with prayerful outlook.

    SEE OUR WEB SITE NOW : http://www.faithgoodnewschurch.blogspot.com

    It is our humble request please kindly visit once our ministry website with pleasure.

    Please pray for us as we pray for you. We shall await for your further the most valuable and prayerful response at an earliest with good anticipation and fervent hope.

    Thanking you
    Yours in His Mighty Name

    D. Venkata Narasaiah

  6. Dear Narasaiah,

    Having just reviewed you website I see a statement on your statement of beliefs that unfortunately appears to adopt an incorrect view of the nature of God. I could be wrong that you actually hold this view, but I am simply going off your statement of beliefs:

    “In one God, eternally existing in three MANIFESTATIONS, father, Son, and Holy Ghost.”

    As you are probably aware this erroneous view on the nature of God is known as modalism, is a heresy that teaches the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit do not simultaneously exist as distinct persons Rather, God at some times and places is the Father, at some times the Son, and other times the Holy Spirit.

    “The modalism view of the Trinity is a very serious Biblical error for a number of reasons.

    First, the Trinitarian view of God is the correct Biblical view of God, which appear to reject.

    Second, with the modalistic view of God, we are left with many errors regarding the incarnation of Christ. When Jesus is praying in the Garden of Gethsemane to the Father, some Oneness theologians argue that Jesus’ flesh is praying to His divine self. If this is the case, then Jesus’ divine self has not been truly incarnated. The incarnation is not a true incarnation if God is sometimes the Father, sometimes the Son, and then sometimes the Holy Spirit. When Jesus was incarnated on the earth, He was fully divine the entire time. His divine self did not leave His human nature to go govern the universe, etc.

    Third, according to Scripture, Jesus was eternally the Son (Heb. 13:8; John 1:1). According to Oneness Theology, the being that is incarnating is not the eternal Son, but the eternal Father.

    Fourth, for the sacrifice of God the Son (Jesus) on the cross to have any significance He must atone for sinners before God the Father. If Jesus is dying to reconcile people to Himself, it is incompatible with the Biblical view where Jesus dies as a substitute to satisfy the wrath of God the Father (1 Pet. 2:24; 3:18; cf. Rom. 5:9; Eph. 2:3-5; 1 Thess. 1:10; 5:9).”

    (see CARM – Christian Apologetics Research Ministry)

    Whilst, it is true that the doctrine of the Trinity is not fully comprehensible by humans, to actively deny this orthodox teaching of Scripture especially after warnings and specific clarification, is quite a serious matter.

  7. NIRMALAMINISTRIES
    P. O. BOX NO. 3. TENALI- 522 201. GUNTUR (DT) A. P. INDIA

    P. NIRMALA

    TO,

    Greetings to you in the most precious name of our Lord and saviour Jesus Christ.
    Let me Introduce myself that my Name is P. NIRMALA, Director of the NIRMALA MINISTRIES . We have Established A Christian Organization named “Society of the Prince of Peace” with the Help of some Faithful Christians. We Established this society only because that we can proclaim the spirit of God in our Area. Some of our Gospel Teams have been Distributing the Bible free Tracts and Booklets in the particular centers Hospitals, some Remote villages of our Area.

    By the Grace of God we are Running the a Christian Lending Library in my Area. It has Become a burden for us to continue these programmes. If I got Generous hand of yours. I will be able to succeed these programmes. So we request you please pray for my spiritual need and Send some more Literature (used or New) Holy Bibles and CDS of your program. You are sending any material,and also Brother.plese consider my request of we want some used clothes for my area poor peoples urgent need here we Distribute freely on your Name. My Area Kid’s are very much needed some Holy Bibles and Literature.

    So please pray for my Kids Need in your Daily Prayers.

    MAY GOD BLESS YOU

    We pray for you and you r Family and also your ministry in my Regular prayers.

    See our Web Site ;- http://www.nirmalaministries.blogspot.com

    Your”s Sister In Christ

    P. NIRMALA

  8. Please be very careful and take caution with Jacob Prasch of Moriel Ministries. From his website:
    About Moriel Ministries: Our Purpose:

    “MORIEL is a teaching ministry to believers stressing the need to rediscover the Scriptures as Hebraic literature (as opposed to Hellenistic literature), demanding the hermeneutic models of Second Temple Period Judaism as a basis in biblical interpretation. Essentially this means an attempt to rediscover the methods of interpretation used by the New Testament writers.

    We note the Sitz in Leben of Biblical Jewish culture along the lines of various scholars, but in order to see the greater depth of contained meaning we adopt an understanding of early midrashic models in addition to conventional grammatical-historical models of interpretation.”

    Moriel is stressing “the need to rediscover the Scriptures as Hebraic literature” and DEMANDING the “hermeneutic models of Second Temple Period Judaism as a basis in biblical interpretation”. In order to see the “greater depth of contained meaning” they adopt “an understanding of early midrashic models”.

    What is the Midrash? Prasch tells us that “Unless someone has been educated in Judaism, Hebrew, or theology, it is easier to demonstrate midrash than to explain it” here:
    http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/midrash.htm

    Really? Do we need to be educated in Judaism and Hebrew in order to understand the Bible through the mystical interpretations afforded by applying midrashic models? So if we don’t know how to apply the Midrash, does that mean that we need to depend on those who do to read the Bible for us?

    John 16:13

    Prasch speaks some truth, but he introduces new errors.

  9. “The ancient Jewish mind that produced the New Testament looks at prophecy, not as prediction, but as pattern. To understand what is going to happen in the future, you look at what did happen in the past. There are multiple fulfillments, and each successive fulfillment teaches something about the ultimate one.

    You will never understand the Book of Revelation with the kind of limited approach to biblical interpretation that is taught in Protestant seminaries. Midrash is like a quadratic equation or a very complex second order differential equation, a thirteen or fourteen step equation. Some people take the first step of grammatical-historical exegesis and think the equation is solved. There is nothing wrong with what they do, but there is plenty wrong with what they don’t do. The equation is not solved. There is nothing wrong with grammatical-historical exegesis. It is a necessary first step, it is a necessary preliminary, and it is okay for reading the Epistles. But that is all.”

    Jacob Prasch, from the article referenced in the above post.

  10. Thanks for the article. Realizing it has some age on it now, it sure rings a bell with my own attempts with organized religion [COG]. In any case we do appreciate your standing up in a biblical manner.

    We presently operate our ministry labors independently as Cross Covenant Ministries.

    Blessings, Aaron

  11. Greetings,
    I grew up in the POAC and was familiar with all the spiritual gifts in operation all my life. The HOLY SPIRIT is a friend and helper but the AG has turned it into a side show worthy of any carnival. BEWARE my brethren as GOD will not be mocked as you are doing. I sound the alarm to you all fall on yoUr faces humble your selves before the LORD GOD or bear the results of HIS anger. “I WILL SHAKE THE LAND IN ANGER AND RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT MEN WILL FALL NEVER TO RISE AGAIN. THE EARTH IS MINE AND THE FULLNESS THEREOF IS MINE AND YOU LAUGH AS ONE WITH DRINK. MY CHILDREN KNOW MY VOICE, THEY KNOW MY TEARS, THEY KNOW MY HATRED OF SIN. YET YOU ALL MOCK ME AND MY SPIRIT TO RIDICULE AND I WILL NO LONGER BE SILENT NOR STILL. I AM GOD OF ALL THE EARTH AND ALL THAT IS ON THE EARTH AND I WILL SHAKE THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF YOUR DREAMS. BEHOLD IT COMES QUICKLY REPENT RESTORE RENEW LEST YOU DIE IN YOUR SIN NOW.”
    AMEN AMEN AMEN make it so Lord JESUS make it so.

  12. As an aside, I don’t think Jacob Prasch is saying you need special interpreters.

    He is perhaps emphasising what I already know to be true. I’ll give you an example.

    Daniels prophecy of the “Abomination of Desolation” which came literally true during the overlordship of the Selucid Empire under Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

    Jesus later on refers to Daniels prophecy and the idea that it will be fulfilled at a future date, even though The Selucids had been thrown out by the Maccabean revolt in around 150BC … (check the wiki for the correct date) … the point is, this is ancient history, the Pharisees date back to that time. Yet Jesus acknowledges the midrashic concept that there are multiple fulfillments of prophecy as well as single fulfillments.

    Antiochus was a type of Anti-Christ. He set himself up as God in the Temple and sacrificed pigs on teh altar.

    So what happened to Jerusalem in AD70 could well happen again. In fact it will be trampled by the gentiles again.

    Nothing that Jacob has said leads me to think that he’s in any way dodgy. We do need to read the Bible like it is a Jewish book. All the authors were Jewish, apart from Luke, and we claim to be followers of a Son of God who was, is and always will be a Jewish man and Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    Do we need to be Midrashic in order to be fully Christian? NO. Do we need a hebraic understanding to help open up Biblical Prophecy? It certainly helps!

    Shalom

  13. That is what Prasch is saying:

    “It takes the wisdom of the ancients to really understand these things.”
    — Jacob Prasch, Understanding the Midrash

    Take a closer look at the Moriel website and you’ll find stumbling blocks and confusion.

  14. Bull wrote:

    “Yet Jesus acknowledges the midrashic concept that there are multiple fulfillments of prophecy as well as single fulfillments.”
    .
    .
    .
    Yes, that’s a concept of Midrash, but not exclusively. It’s also just basic common-sense.

    Yes, we can glean things from our Jewish heritage, yet there is no system or systematic method to interpret Scripture. There are guidelines, but ultimately everything is by revelation of the Holy Spirit.

    I’ve listened to Jacob Prasch’s audios before, and it’s really just an angry man ranting.

    But i know he loves the truth, to a certain extent. He certainly speaks a lot of truth. But without 1 Cor 13, of what use is it?

    Moses got angry and smashed the 10 commandments. But God wasn’t angry at Moses for that. But that was a rare thing for Moses.

    But with Prasch, he seems to be constantly angry.

    http://ianvincent.wordpress.com/

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  16. Bull, you have a growing collection of spam comments [I don’t mean David!].

    Perhaps you could deal with them or shut them out before they become unmanagable.

    Regards!

  17. “are you kdiding me? And you’re saying that “ecumenicism” (i.e. churches uniting together) is not a good thing?? wtf?? ”

    Amidst the trash talk, obscene language and needlessly incendiary insults, you make some good points.

  18. Didn’t understand your comment Bones.

    But, I have no problems with Rick Warren. If you are against marketing and hype I can understand.
    But that’s the way the church is these days.

  19. SM. I’m referring to the ‘good point’ made by the previous post to yours. The point being we should all be ecumenical and become Baptist. From someone who hates Anglican, Uniting , Lutherans. It’s not worth replying to it’s so stupid.

  20. As a result of the heretical thinking of the gnostics of this “false dichotomy” of flesh and spirit, they believed Jesus was not human at all (but only appeared so), AS he was fully god…………

    References for “ecumenicism” in the bible are –
    Ephesians 4:3: Be eager and strive earnestly to guard and keep the harmony and oneness of [and produced by] the Spirit in the binding power of peace. – etc etc

    The fact you guys on this blog (even in comments) make SO little reference to biblical comments is SHAMEFUL. Look at even just this page, where has ONE single biblical passage been quoted?

    And don’t say I’m just tellin’ on you. The bible makes it clear we should rebuke and correct unbiblical behavior:
    2 Timothy 4:2 … And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.

  21. ‘We are Legion’

    It’s like a gang of poltergeists which come in to smash all the furniture around and make loud noises to freak out the occupants.

    It just needs exorcism, generally, and is only a demon with no other mandate but to cause disruption, confusion and disconcertion.

    In this case, the i-demon has devised a way to construct multiple identities and ip’s, so it makes itself hard to track down and eliminate.

    It is basically an ip ‘Legion’.

    Normally you could just block out the ip address and they would be dealt with, but this one has found an illegal mans of using multiple fake email addresses (some of which probably belong to unsuspecting people), which WordPress doesn’t pick up on.

    There is a way of dealing with it, and that is to moderate every comment. This way the troll would be shut out and ultimately leave. The problem with this is that it slows down the flow of commentary for as long as it takes to shut down the offending troll.

    This method also requires a moderator who is constantly available to moderate comments.

  22. Of course, Jesus dealt with Legion by sending it into a herd of pigs who hurled themselves off a cliff.

    Even the pigs couldn’t stand it.

    I find it fascinating that this Drone On Legion comes onto the site all guns blazing, foul language sending sparks into the air, claiming hypocrisy left right and centre, and then cries foul when subjected to the lightest of return fire, as if Christians have to be passive and surrender beneath the weight of foulness and accusative lies and innuendo, and let the multi-demented delusive carry on without comment.

    I mean, s/he did rather announce him/herself rather loudly on entrance.

    Now, having realised that this site is actually populated with well-mannered, good-hearted, basically same-sided people who are discussing various points of scripture – a very Christian thing to do – Drone On Legion (DOL) has decided to tone down, adding a few smily’s for good measure, and attempt to add rational thought to his/her commentary, 🙂 as if a smiley makes it alright now!

    But still the display of insecurity continues as DOL jumps from gravatar to gravatar as if to elude our scrutiny, like some vapourous ghost in the works.

    Why to just stick to one pseudonym, apologise for prior rudeness, and add some thought-provoking comments rather than carry on like a pork chop legionnaire?

  23. The skatepark is like a foreign
    country, in need of God like China is,
    or Australia, or Russia, or Egypt…. That’s my heart. The problem is
    this generation seems to create teenaged

    satanists, and atheists. Skateboarding as a whole isn’t doing anything
    to counteract, it’s time skaters hear the

    gospel. I don’t believe they will listen to anyone outside of
    skateboarding, that’s not how they work.
    My wife and I believe all of the Bible, which is why we are praying for people,
    seeing healings and demons cast out, we’ve seen 20 healings, 5 kids
    with demons cast out, (probably more, everyone is demonized in these
    times!) Atleast 20 kids have felt the power of God, and accepted
    Christ!!!! We had a steady flow of Bibles for a while as well. My wife
    had a dream, God told her “go to the skatepark every thursday, I will
    clear a path” (the skatepark will be dry) “kids will ask you to draw
    “Carpenter Skates” on their griptape, funding will come for the
    Ministry, you will sit on the second level of the bleachers and preach
    about the end times…” She also saw in the dream healings and
    miracles taking place there. I got on Facebook and announced the
    Prophecy “Every Thursday will be dry at the Skatepark, and we will be
    there preaching the end times, and Jesus will be doing miracles.” Well
    so far all of that dream has came true, FORE SEVEN WEEKS STRAIGHT, the
    skatepark was sunny and dry, and minds we’re blown. I ordered my first
    bundle of skateboard decks, complete with a drawing of Jesus, and a
    verse for the graphic (viewable in the attachments.) We are praying
    for further funding, my wife just got a job, and I am still looking, I
    believe God wants us to be fully committed to a ministry that sustains
    itself, we can do much more if we can be emmersed in the ministry, and
    not working all week. There are hundreds of skateparks just in our
    State, God has revealed to us this WILL reach many more people than
    just our local skatepark. Kids don’t seem to leave they’re home
    skateparks, we have to go to them! Please let me know if there is
    anything you can do to help. Thank you. It costs us $360 to make 20
    black and white skateboards, $1000 to make 30 full color skatebards.
    We need a van to move the team from park to park. We need to make
    T-shirts and stickers. We need to get Bibles.

  24. Hirelings abound in the AG, as they do in all denominations.Pastors for a paycheck. There are a few called and sincere Pastors within the Assemblies of God.However my experience is they are the exception.God said he would send famine, not for food or for water. But for the hearing of the words of the Lord, it is here.Many hungry sheep, but very few Pastors feeding them the actual word of God.

  25. I am still ordained with AG although I left the entire institutional church system 6 years ago. I’m very surprised by this however, because within Pentecostalism, it seems AG as a whole had its head on right. I’ve known some very godly men in AG, people who deeply love the Lord, but I never saw Trask as my “pope”, because each AG church was sovereign, but my mentor, the man who led me to Christ, Pastor Raynor is still a stallwart.
    http://shirleyassembly.com/contentpages/18334/f9464eae-ad4b-40a8-a985-99be3e6d0a23/PastoralStaff.aspx

  26. After extensive theological and legal research one can only come to the conclusion the AG Church had initiated a planned and illegal land and property grab in the State of Michigan. Pastors Johnson and Whitaker have been purposely defamed by the self anointed leaders of the church in their attempt to save the property of their respective congregations. In the case of Pastor Bobby Johnson the speculators who have high jacked the AG Church prevailed in the Michigan Courts and through misinformation absconded with the property of The Lighthouse Ministry. Our Lord and Savior will deal with these heathens on their day of judgement. The AG is no longer a place to expand your spiritual being. At all costs DO NOT involve yourself with this group. The new mission of this group is no longer to spread the word of God, but to financially extort Ministries of property for their own purposes.

  27. I was ordained in the AG. There are many mighty men of God who I love dearly in the AG denomination, but I left the denomination 5 years ago. It’s so sad to see a church once called “The Pentecostal Baptists” turn into this. Since all AG churches are sovereign, he should have dis-fellowshipped his church prior to saying this because it IS hypocritical. Ultimately there is no actual benefit in staying with AG (except name recognition). Simple paperwork could have been filled out to separate themselves.

  28. Personally, being a member of Michiana Christian Embassy, I love where our church has gone and I am very happy that myself and my family had decided to stay with the church. It doesn’t matter if you belong to any specific church. as long as you are hearing the word, and it is preached correctly. Then it is perfectly acceptable by God and his teachings.
    God Bless you all.
    -MCE-girl

  29. I am ordained in AG, and since AG is not a denomination per se, it is doesn’t dictate doctrine, however it does dictate what NOT to teach. All denominations are divisive anyway.

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