Many Pentecostal and charismatic churches today promote the need for ‘Apostolic Covering’, as part of the restoration of the “five-fold ministry”. If you do not attend a church with recognised apostolic covering, you are not ‘covered’, and therefore considered to lack credibility and be out of God’s will for our lives. If you left a church and did not find another with ‘covering’, you are rebellious. The teaching includes that everyone must be ‘covered’ and be able to trace that covering back to an apostle.
The teaching of ‘covering’ is not equivalent to being in relationship with a group of fellow believers, or even to being ‘accountable’ to an agreed group of believers.
John Bevere has released a book called, ‘Under Cover’, stressing the importance of covering in the life of an individual believer. From the back cover:
There is a secret place under the shadow of the Almighty, where there is liberty, provision, and protection. Yet, too many believers do not enjoy this hidden place. Instead, they seek freedom and security outside of it in a realm where the very opposite exists. They are tricked into believing true and lasting freedom can be found away from Divine authority.
Under Cover exposes the subtle yet rampant tactics the enemy uses against believers–the failure to recognize and properly relate to Divine authority. With practical, personal examples and strong, biblical foundation, this book reminds us the kingdom of God is just that–a kingdom, ruled by a King, where there is order and authority.
You may wonder about harsh or corrupt leaders. How could protection possibly be found under them? Learn to by-pass the immediate authority you see and tap into God’s. His promises supersede the laws of men, and in Him we can trust.
(It looks like there may be more to worry about in the ‘subtle yet rampant tactics’ of the enemy for those who don’t have covering than in the subtle yet rampant tactics of a corrupt apostle or authority within the church. Does God help people affected by the latter, but not the former?)
Covering typically seems to come back to a recognised apostle ministry. For example, Phil Pringle is the recognised apostle for the CCC movement. I’m not sure who/what fills this role in the Hillsong movement. Ps Pringle is just a convenient local example.
If we are all theoretically supposed to be part of a church that has apostolic covering, what then is an apostle? There are so many definitions! No one ever seems to be able to totally agree.
Strong’s simply translates the word for apostle as ‘sent one’.
Here is Frank Viola’s (a supporter of the organic house church movement) definition of Apostle:
Apostles. Apostles were extra-local, traveling, itinerant church planters. They were highly gifted individuals who were sent by the Lord and by a particular church to plant and equip new churches. Apostles enabled the church by giving it birth, raising it from the ground up. They also helped it walk on its own two feet. Apostles grew up in an organic expression of church life as nonleaders before they were sent out to plant churches of the same kind. And they always left the churches they planted on their own without administration or ritual.
This would seem to work well in the house church movement, yet typically the house church movement is looked down upon or not recognised by many of the megachurches as valid. Despite the assistance of ‘apostles’.
There are many organisations available for apostolic covering if a church fears it lacks such. Typically, there seems to be an agreed code of conduct, and naturally, financial support to the apostolic covering ministry.
So how important is it to be under ‘apostolic covering’? Is the house church form the same as that recognised in megachurches (probably not)? Though it may be helpful, is apostolic covering even necessary – after all the term is fairly modern, and not specifically described in scripture.
If it is important, then how do we recognise false apostles? For of all doctrines this one is potentially open to extreme abuse, given the overarching authority given to the designated apostle. If we recognise one ‘over’ our church as false, do we just pray about it and submit to their ultimate authority anyway – expecting that God will look after us?
Are those gathering outside recognised apostolic covering lacking in all credibility?
What do you do if your town has no apostle covered gathering?
Or could it be that we need no man’s authority between us and God – although much counsel can be very helpful?
Signposts 02 
I wonder what the scriptural basis is for this “Covering Theology”. I was recommended a course called “Cleansing Stream” at my Pentecostal church several years ago, and I started the course. It used the concept of a “covering” and recommended that it be used to enforce a strict authority and hierarchy within the family. Ie. the husband is under the “covering” (authority) of the church, the wife is under the covering of the husband and the children come under the covering of the wife. It was explained that the devil is always raining his fiery darts upon us, and the only way to avoid it is to come under a covering. Ultimately this is the covering of the Blood of Jesus, but it has to be accessed through various levels of the hierarchy.
To the extent that people get out of line of the covering (take themselves out of the authority), then bad things start to happen to them because they leave themselves exposed to the fiery darts of the devil. God cant do anything for them because they have rejected the protection He offers. So, if a wife or children start not to obey the husband they leave themselves open to health problems or worse.
They also extended this hierarchy to inside a person, so now the body must obey the soul, the soul must come under the covering of the persons spirit etc. Problems were said to occur when these things did not “line up” in strict order. Get them right, ie. make the spirit have authority over the soul and soul over the body and it was said that everything would go into its natural order and you wouldnt have to worry about endless counselling or messy psychological problems.
When I look back on this, it seems ridiculous. But this was enthusiastically recommended by all the Pastors and was run in conjunction with large churches like Richmond AOG in Melbourne.
“To the extent that people get out of line of the covering (take themselves out of the authority), then bad things start to happen to them because they leave themselves exposed to the fiery darts of the devil. God cant do anything for them because they have rejected the protection He offers. So, if a wife or children start not to obey the husband they leave themselves open to health problems or worse.”
That is an incredibly extreme and abusive doctrine. Horrible. And just not taught in scripture at all, from what I can see.
I’ve heard covering referred to over my entire time in Pente churches. Apostolic covering very recently as a necessity. However, so far, I haven’t heard that kind of detailed extreme badness taught, thankfully.
Fancy putting that sort of restriction on God – that He can’t do anything for people who are uncovered!
Something I was looking at just yesterday –
Bevere on the subject of authority …
John Bevere teaches that one should submit to authority of all kinds and that by doing so one is protected by God, even IF/WHEN the authority has made a mistake. This is not true, at least not true most of the time. This can actually lead to spiritual or marriage abuse and the person being abused will believe they are the ones in error! So I would have to say that this teaching is dangerous, especially if taken alone without any sort of balance. If you insist on reading this book, then read others on spiritual abuse and how it can happen. (Review, “Under Cover: The Promise of Protection Under His Authority” by John Bevere, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785269916/103-5336298-6842245?v=glance&n=283155)
This is not a biblical teaching. We are to submit to authorities, both inside the Church and in the world, as long as what they ask us to do is not in conflict with God’s commands (1 John 2:1, 5:2). We are to obey the laws of the land (1 Pet. 2:13-16) “but as the servants of God” (1 Pet. 2:16). We are to submit to the authorities in the Church (Heb. 13:17), but they are also not to lord it over people (Mark 10:42-45), and we are to be Bereans (Acts. 17:11) and test what they teach (1 Thes. 5:21, 1 John 4:1, 1 Cor. 10:15), and reject them if they are heretics (Titus 3:10). Again, Bevere is brainwashing Christians into not testing leadership in the churches so that false apostles, prophets and teachers may gain control of people and their money. This is a hallmark teaching of Third Wave heretics. Other reviews of this Bevere book echo his false teachings:
The message of this book is a very dangerous message for Christians. It promotes a very unhealthy view of how a believer is to submit to authority in the church. Very little actual Biblical support is used to support this message. Instead, John Bevere uses many personal experiences to build his support for the message of Under Cover. These examples have an emotional pull to them and can be very convincing to individuals. However, there is a great danger in this message. As believers, our covering is the Lord Jesus Christ. In his book, Mr. Bevere points people to look at their pastor as their covering. This is serious error and has the potential to shipwreck people’s faith. My recommendation would be to not read this book, or, if you are compelled to read it, be sure to balance the message of the book with what the scripture says. (Review, “Under Cover: The Promise of Protection Under His Authority” by John Bevere, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785269916/103-5336298-6842245?v=glance&n=283155)
This Undercover book is nothing but heresy. I read the Bait of Satan, it was a good book. Where did this come from? Page 147 shows without a doubt this false teaching. Bevere says that God “told him” that He (God) never intended for His people to get all they needed from His Word. And that we must have pastors tell us what to do. The veil was torn in two when Christ died on the cross, and we are not in the Old Testament where we have to have a priest go into the temple for us. We can all come boldly to the throne of Christ. No where in the New Testament do pastors have any more authority than anyone else. … But in Americanized christianity, the “pastor” has been put on a throne that the Word does not establish. Pastor means shepherd, and maybe John Bevere and others who hold pastors as little gods should read in Jeremiah and Isaiah what God said about shepherds who lead His people in to false teachings. Sadly, the people who followed the false shepherds were themselves destroyed. God did not spare them from their ignorance. We are all responsible for our own salvation, with fear and trembling. As a pentecostal person, I am very disappointed with this book. It is heresy. (Review, “Under Cover: The Promise of Protection Under His Authority” by John Bevere, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0785269916/103-5336298-6842245?v=glance&n=283155)
Covering theology seems like a good excuse for a control system to me.
It seems to me that what Bevere and other exponents of this covering theology have achieved is a total negation of many of the gains of the Reformation. Taking away the idea of the priesthood of all believers and replacing it with a strict authoritarian hierarchy and elite priesthood every bit as oppressive as the church system of the 16th century.
These pastors push submission to authority.They have to preach this fear doctrine in order to control the people . Fear not faith is their motivation?
Fear is the stick, ‘safety’ is the carrot.
And yes, its hard to see how faith could be a motivation if they fear losing control of people enough to teach this kind of elaborate thing.
I don’t think it’s the role of Pastor, or Apostle, really, to tell people individually what to do, that is, outside of employment situations within the local church or a movement, but to train and equip them for ministry.
Each member is responsible for their own lives before God.
A Pastor cannot be made responsible for every decision, good or bad, right or wrong, a member makes concerning his or her life.
Overseers are to give account for their flocks, but on the basis of what they are called to do in leadership, in equipping, in training for the ministry, in nurturing , in teaching the Word and principles of the kingdom, and certainly not for interfering with the every day running of a home or business or marriage.
Each member is to grow up in Christ in their own right.
No wonder pastors and leaders are worn out if they think they have to be poking their noses into everyone’s business. It’s hard enough running one’s own household without attempting to run everyone else’s household. Dear Lord, spare us!
Oversight isn’t equated to covering, but caring. God is our covering, if there is such a thing. In reality we are called to submit to one another in the fear of the Lord, and help take care of one another without being busybodies. Pastors, including those with Apostolic giftings, are called to train us in these things, so we can minister to one another.
Cleansing Stream being a private course and a retreat weekend shows more of the detail of some of these theologies than you would get at a typical pente sermon. These ideas are indeed extreme, and are discussed among Pastors and the inner-circle of on-fire sold-out Pente Christians, but they normally wouldnt be fully explained or taught in a sermon. Only in a course setting where people have committed themselves to a significant cost, time and effort will the true extent of these doctrines come out.
But there are reports on the internet written by people who have gone through the course. They line up pretty much with my experience. There is a change of focus from God to the works of the devil and hell. This results in a fear-based religion, where one is always looking for evil-spirits and how one may have let them into ones life. There is an unrelenting authoritarian streak to the teachings, and a number of extra-biblical/mystical additions.
You can be sure that your Pente Pastor is familiar with these concepts and is conversing with others in these extreme terms, even is he/she does not fully believe them. They just do not come out in the weekly sermon because the general public is not ready for them. The Cleansing Stream course is still being run at Bayside church and Destiny church in Melbourne, and I’m sure in many other smaller Pentecostal churches.
In the Pente churches I’ve been exposed to, covering has been mentioned, but not scripturally explained in the Sunday services when I was present. There was always a notion of your pastor being your covering, and of the local church being your covering. It was kind of assumed that it was generally understood. Fortunately it wasn’t pushed in an extreme abusive fashion in my experience. Although, with John Bevere pushing it, I wonder how far it will now go. He is a very popular author. Once you look into the theology, you have to wonder where it came from.
Lately, the apostolic covering has been mentioned as a necessity for a church group. It is an easy way to discredit groups that don’t fit that pattern.
However, Viola uses the word apostle to describe a gifting that assists and trains local gatherings. That seems fine to me.
That course sounds just awful, wazza. Also, when I look it up, the ad doesn’t say anything about coverings.
http://www.baysidechurch.com.au/content/view/76/112/
http://www.educatingchristians.unitingchurch.org.au/2005/06/cleansing-stream/
Is that the same course you are talking about?
I don’t doubt what you say. Just wondering if they are the same as you are mentioning. If so, the advertising isn’t very descriptive!
[Added later by RP – yes, having looked into it further, these guys seem to be the one’s wazza mentioned, including all the wierd doctrine.]
“Or could it be that we need no man’s authority between us and God – although much counsel can be very helpful?”-RP
Surprised that anyone might think it could be other wise. Anyone who seriously entertains the idea that we might need a covering of an apostle has been in the WoF (apostolic whatever) movement too long.
“Fancy putting that sort of restriction on God – that He can’t do anything for people who are uncovered!”
Don’t forget the God can’t do anything for people who don’t tithe bit either. A doctrine very explicitly taught by PP at CCC and other WoF leaders.
It is very much spiritual abuse and distorts the image people have of God from what it should be.
Well, the apostolic covering movements even sometimes suggest that the minister’s storehouse is their apostolic movement, and he should tithe to them, rather than his own church, as that is like tithing to himself.
(Not that I personally believe tithing is a requirement at all. But I’m familiar with the church as storehouse idea.)
‘Surprised that anyone might think it could be other wise.’
I guess they don’t notice the contradictions with scripture.
No wonder people are supposed to just trust them. Don’t think for yourself, whatever you do. Its dangerous. To their weak theology.
i’ve heard JB teach that message. nearly walked out. couldn’t believe how it was lapped up and ‘rebellious’ people repented. It’s wrong. I also can’t believe I’m agreeing with FL on something.
I’m glad that Facelift’s church doesn’t teach this stuff. (I’m assuming he’s in agreement with his church.)
Even Kenneth Hagin apparently stated that he needed no covering but Christ.
Very interesting post. I would even go so far as to say the clergy-laity system (though the intention is most often pure) is abusive to the functioning of the body of Christ. In all our examples in the New Testament, none show us of anyone practicing rule or authority over God’s children, at most Paul exhorted believers to adhere to his doctrine as it was a revelation of God. But other than that I don’t see a problem with teachers teaching and leaders leading without taking authority or gift sharing opportunities from the church. We all ought to function at an equal level, after all we are all priests!
Oh dear, Bevere!
He is a fool preaching about things he has no idea about.
I always felt sorry for him. His intentions seem so good.
How can he miss it so badly each time? So close yet so far.
The biggest mistake he ever did was to write with other pastors on ‘The True Secret’.
…”The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”
-‘heavy-stuff’, and associated with a man [or men] who begin to stand in Gods place–
‘Wickedness’ doesnt always look outwardly creepy or whatever, and thanks Wazza for pointing out the ‘fiery dart deal’–
So what happened to our own basic infantry armour-the Shield [of Faith]; issued to each one,’to put out the fiery darts of the Evil one’.-Ephesians6:16
I dont want to sound too square, but ‘loving truth’ seems to mean pretty careful scripture-work combined with practical application, and ‘apostolic authority’ is something I’ve never heard of until this year- another of CCCs faddish teachings, designed to overawe followers with a ‘mystic’ claim of ‘equality-with-Paul’, or somesuch.
Consider ‘Big-Man-Little-Man syndrome’ in Anthropology:
Since time immemorial, primitive civilizations were carving and painting images of their empires; The ‘King-figure’ was portrayed as a Big-Man figure, and his underlings were accorded tiny stature as they ran about doing his bidding…
I cant believe that in our Churches, people are getting away with the same thing!
Mt23:
8″But (B)do not be called (C)Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.
9″Do not call anyone on earth your father; for (D)One is your Father, He who is in heaven.
10″Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.”
Looks like these guys are moving into ‘lawlessness’ in the Fathers eyes.
Z.
PS-Well said Matt!
Proverbs 30:27-
” locusts have no king,
yet they advance together in ranks;”
From the moment I read this as a boy, I knew it to be gods dream for his own people; & this was written Post-Samuel!
Z.
Read- “What Is Apostolic Oversight?”
http://www.revivalfiresministries.org/apostolic_oversight.htm
This looks pretty good.
Nothing wrong with the ministry of apostle. Although some teach it no longer exists today – again, it depends upon the definition of apostle. Assistance and non-controlling oversight don’t seem crazy for a gathering. But when its taught as covering – as necessity, as a requirement for a church and as a hierarchy where the ‘covering’ filters down from apostle to pastor to leader to individual – then further, even within the family setting – as a pattern of submission and obedience – that’s a lot more than wise assistance or equipping in love. That’s a controlling hierarchy. Doesn’t sound like Jesus Kingdom where the King lays down his own life, or washes feet. Doesn’t sound like a relationship between brothers and sisters with only one Lord.
Hmm… Since these corporate CEO-like churches like to further their names and brands, maybe we can help further them with the branding?
–CEO Ministries–
‘Covering Heresy’ Taught… -/
‘Word of Faith Heresy’ Taught… -/
‘Tithe Heresy’ Taught… -/
‘Miracle Offering Heresy’ Taught… -/
‘Prosperity Doctrine’ Taught -/
Supports wolf ministries… -/
BAM!
CEO MINISTRIES
(H+5)
Wolf Productions, (H+5) Heresy Rated
RP said “That course sounds just awful, wazza. Also, when I look it up, the ad doesn’t say anything about coverings.”
Yes, the course ads do not really cover the true content of the course. It has some extreme teachings on coverings and also some extreme WOF doctrine, including the idea that we have all by our own words created binding contracts with the devil. Every curse or negative thing we have ever said is used by the devil as an agreement, by which he can get a hook into our spirit and pull us by a string.
I am shocked that the Uniting church is advertising it, as the average Uniting church-goer would spurt out their weak tea and monte-carlo bikkie if they knew the content of this course. I think I will do a separate post to discuss this course and its doctrines.
Good man Wazza, do so please,
Z
It is a principle from Adam thru Moses thru to the NT that each individual is accountable before God for their own sin and not someone else’s – see 2 Ch 25:3-5 and Ezekiel 18.
The principle however does exist that we may be held accountable for bringing someone else into sin – something about children and millstones (Mt 18) and stumbling blocks (1 Cor).
There is also the ‘submission to authority’ issue – the first part of the equation is to recognise that there is authority, and who has it in what circumstances.
Begs the question – apostolic covering aside, which sounds like more legalism – in the body of Christ what does that look like?
Just goes to show that pentes are the nuttiest Christians. Why subject yourself to this covering nonsense. Think of how much fun you can have subverting it all. Give your pastor the bird today.
http://www.revivalfiresministries.org/apostolic_oversight.htm
Hey Specks&planks,
are you serious about the above link?- certainly lurid & freakish-looking, though it encompasses ‘an explanation’ for those curious to know what ‘Apostolic Covering’ is!
Funny thing guys & girls;
A false-prophet never walks around with a t-shirt saying “I AM A FALSE PROPHET”, but instead walks around wearing a t-shirt saying “I AM A TRUE PROPHET”!
Take a look at the ‘Apostle’ on the website, I guess!-yep, the true form & spiritual authority of St Paul!
Z.
Viola wrote a book called PAGAN CHRISTIANITY with George Barna recently. The book is really good, but challenging. It blew my mind. the sequel comes out soon, called Reimagining Church and it’s supposed to take a new view on leadership including covering. I’m looking forward to it. Both books are on Amazon.com
Great Spotting Tom!- a serious and rising theme amongst us-
Matthew 13:41
” The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,”
I was talking with a brilliant Theologian here in Sydney yesterday, and he reminded me of the two following scriptures:
-“It is necessary that stumbling-blocks come…”
-“it is necessary that factions come among you , for then their works will become apparent to all”
and I was astonished that the Lord found these things “necessary”- I did a quick electronic Bible-search just now, but did not find the exact words, and will backtrack until I do, though felt this important enough to post.
So many of our guys have been conditioned to be ‘Anti-Law’ for so long, that we are missing the righteous actions in the spirit of what is ‘lawful’ to the Father.
Z.
It really is amazing how confused Christians are. I can more readily spot questionable behaviour without the need to agonise over biblical texts and their interpretation.
Just goes to show that Christianity does not provide means to establish a clear moral compass, a clear life direction and meaningful relationships. From discussion above and on other threads, certain brands of Christian practice in particular, really serve to confuse people, keep them enslaved to some pastor’s pet foibles and screwed over because of said pastor’s personality defects.
It’s been said before, but the Church has had approx 2000 years. It is now more divided, squabbling & confused than it has ever been. Not long now before it disappears altogether.
“I can more readily spot questionable behaviour without the need to agonise over biblical texts and their interpretation.”
I can see why you would hold that view, David. To be honest, I think a lot of Christians share it, and often ditch ‘church’ as a result.
All the stuff we agonise over here has happened before in some form or another. When I chat about these things to my in-laws, who are currently in a Uniting church, they’ve seen it all before. The particular church type doesn’t matter. Any time a church focuses on empire building of some kind, be it large or small, it seems to need control structures or guilt/fear structures. I have yet to see one that doesn’t. Some aren’t too bad, many do good things as well, some are downright abusive.
I don’t believe Jesus taught these things. He inverted the idea of kingdom. Scripture can be misused to justify empire building, particularly if people don’t read their bibles or are taught that questioning is wrong.
I think it is understandable that people want nothing to do with faith due to their dislike of these un-Christlike systems. If anything, because they are not blinded by ‘religion’, they can sometimes see more clearly what is wrong.
If the institutional church does disappear, which I doubt it will, there will still be other Christians out there, gathering in ways which don’t hold to these systems. The body of Christ will continue, even if it’s not as visible.
I heard the other day that there are over 250,000 churchless Christians in NZ, for example. Don’t know the source of the stats though.
Tom – I haven’t read those books yet, but Viola’s stuff is pretty interesting. They can certainly lead people to move on from ‘institutional church’ – sorry to those who hate that term, for want of a better one.
I think house churches can also risk legalism if people become more concerned about the form of church than about love and abiding in Christ. Not that I am suggesting Viola does that. It’s hard to come to grips with all of a group acting in giftings, with no clergy/laiety, and with supporting one another as a community, in a way that does not pretty much echo that of a larger church form, if one has grown up with the larger church form. Even when you know the theory of another approach.
Possibly a house church with a single ‘leader’ could become just a mini conventional church, that meets in a home. A plurality of elders would take time to develop. In fact,
I think Viola talks about that somewhere.
There are other approaches out there which completely shake up any notion of a church form at all. I know someone whose business is also their ‘church’ for example.
MN – you are right about accountability and submission to authority. Still, allowing oneself to be persuaded by those whose example inspires you, because of how you have seen Christ expressed in parts of their life, is a fairly attractive form of submission.
Elders scripturally seemed to be recognised as such by the gathering, even before the apostles prayed for them. So people already recognised these people as being worth learning from and listening to. I think thats different from submission to someone in a position who was appointed without reference to the gathering at all, and who has not demonstrated those qualities. If they do demonstrate Christlikeness, people will be won over anyway.
Plus there is always a mutual submission, not a ‘lording over’. Keeps everyone healthier. Allows people to question dubious doctrine without being seen as rebellious, and potentially check some of the falsehoods before they become too extreme.
“All the stuff we agonise over here has happened before in some form or another.”
Yes, I think it is a constantly recurring story. As Facelift said, faith is of the heart. But there will always be people who see in it an opportunity to control people, build empires and extract sacrifices from others. And in following them we have mixed motivations – one is that we see some resonance with the faith that we have experienced – but another is that we secretly want some part of the empire they are building.
There is an old Leunig cartoon which as I grow older I see the truth of more and more. It starts with a dreamer asleep, a cloud above his head. A crafty person comes along, grabs the cloud down, hammers it into a box then stands on the box and kicks the dreamer in the teeth.
We still need to be dreamers, just wake up a bit and not get onto any soap-boxes and not let the crafty ones make soap-boxes out of our dreams.
zeppelin:
“Hey Specks&planks,
are you serious about the above link?- certainly lurid & freakish-looking, though it encompasses ‘an explanation’ for those curious to know what ‘Apostolic Covering’ is!”
I mean the article is good because we can see both sides of the coin in terms of reasons why people see the ‘covering’ as good. We see it as bad, but this article helped me understand why people go under it.
However, I don’t believe in the umbrella system. God shines through when we go through our ups and downs. God keeps me accountable, but so too do my friends, family and those who I trust in my local community and church community. But I let God usually deal with my problems. He knows me best and I don’t really need to explain myself before Him if He’s all-knowing. Plus He’s more gentle and patient.
Appreciate your view David; hope you got my note on SantaClaus!
-though you are quite wrong, even if Christian prophecy is simply ‘self-fulfilling!’.
Thank for above Specks&planks-worried you were a psycho for a minute!
Here are the scriptures I mentioned above,that describe the strategic process of ‘fragmentation’ in the Church, and the prevalence of ‘bad-guys’ or defective behaviours:
(1 Cor 11:19 NASB) For there must also be factions among you, in order that
those who are approved may have become evident among you.
(Luke 17:1) And He said to His disciples, “It is inevitable that
stumbling blocks should come, but woe to him through whom they come!
-Ach!-Frau Zeppelin just yelled at me- will be back[particularly to mull over RPs entries above]- after Ive picked up my kid!
Z.
This is probably a side issue to your conversation about “covering” per se., but since you commented about some waryness among mega churches about the house church expression I though you might like to see this: http://www.simplychurch.com/2008/05/more-trends.html
It’s some observations from Felicity Dale of House2House about trends she’s seeing. The last item on the article – number 12 – reports some encouraging interest and actual support from mega churches.
Blessings!
Yeh David,
I agree completely with your observations, with the odd exception that as a keen observer of human nature myself, Ive been astonished too often by the outcomes of trusting scripture more even than my own eyes.-
A return to ‘listening with your gut & body’ is certainly in the wind-[and how stupid that Christians EVER divorced from their bodies & ‘horse-sense’]; as scripture viewed as a whole confirms the ‘unity’ of all things and matter!
I must observe though, even as a film-professional, that non-Christians are even MORE screwed-over than Christians by the world & ‘its foibles’, so as difficult as Jesus described the path to be, it still proves a better way than the worlds’, and leads to more insight, happiness & kindness, in my own experience!
Right-on in the particulars though; ‘WHO on earth EVER let these pastors RUN everything, and bring so much trouble’ upon the rest of us?-[ check out Teleios: http://www.teleios.org.au]
All beautifully -put, Ravingpente and Wazza; Im sick to death of those in life who want to hijack and control goodness and truth and collect power & a margin !
But the good news appears to be that people are getting-wise; even the Internet is a part of freeing people from human control-systems; and nothing is going to stop these people from getting up and moving toward things that really glow with ‘good’, and ‘truth’ for them…..
Ive often wondered why Christianity spread historically, like wildfire across the Greco-Roman world; it simply had to be that it was showing something plainly ‘good’, and filled with supernaturally pure power; better than the mute and useless religions that existed before-
even the regional kings and rulers could see that their subjects were happier and at peace with Christianity……well, what do you know?; this faith still has the power to keep people free, and make them happy,- and without providing ‘pleasant delusions’.
I woke up the other day and realised that Moses had communicated the shortest-cut to ‘happiness in life’ when he said;
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. [a] 5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.”( Deut6:4)
-because it calls a person into a life of love!….and yet people have managed to come along and mess it all up, and make it all so complicated & hard; what?- just because life has a supernatural dimension?
Here’s to Him who who keeps people from ‘stumbling’ in life;
“Psalm 56:13
For you have delivered me from death and my feet from stumbling, that I may walk before God in the light of life…..”
and I mean this in its fullest, cosmological sense,
Z.
Thanks Tim, great to see you- just got your post; –we so hope for intensive & positive development, eh!?
best wishes, Z
Hey Zepp! That was a real inspiring post!
“All beautifully -put, Ravingpente and Wazza; Im sick to death of those in life who want to hijack and control goodness and truth and collect power & a margin !”
When it comes to storytelling, I’ll never forget a quote I once heard, ‘The most convincing evil-doer a story writer can create is an evil-doer that’s not evil but is convinced and tries to convince others what they are doing is good. The more the story teller can relate the reader with the evil-doer, the more scary they become.’
They gave examples such as ‘Alien’ & ‘Clockwork Orange’. We finally see the intentions of Alien isn’t evil, but are just a species that want to survive, the mum protecting her young. It’s something we can all sympathize with. Clockwork Orange , (R), makes you feel sympathetic towards a murderer and makes you feel that you want to see him freed and returned to his normal ‘evil’ self.
As human beings, we all have the right to stand up for truth and justice, (Martin Luther and Luther King Jr). But when people are crying out because they’re getting hurt, we need to make sure that we are ‘good’ intentions aren’t actually blinding us in committing atrocities or apostasies in the name of ‘God’.
Tim:
“This is probably a side issue to your conversation about “covering” per se., but since you commented about some waryness among mega churches about the house church expression I though you might like to see this: http://www.simplychurch.com/2008/05/more-trends.html ==
==12. Interest from mega-churches: There have been several instances of mega-churches being in contact with the simple church movement with an amazing openness to what we are doing. One is asking how they can bless us, another how they can get involved in starting organic churches and others wanting to learn more. What would happen if the mega and micro learned to co-operate?”
In point 12 from that site: You have no idea how long I have been hoping to hear about such movements/denominations coming together to work side by side! That just makes me get all excited and makes me feel fulfilled. For too long, movements have been started to further themselves away from the church- especially those in mega-church movements. This has to be the biggest stink I have with the AOG/Pentecostal churches, Hillsong and CCC. I’ve been wanting them to get that since the year 2000. It’s all about the church getting on and uniting together. It should be about combining resources and ideas to bring events, clubs, infrastructure into local communities. We’ve been set apart from one another for too long in the church. And (stereotyping here), as the church we’ve been set apart from the local community for too long.
Hey guys,
Im intrigued how Davids post has helped precipitate some interesting thoughts in me;
This morning I recalled a particular phrase thats been bothering me for a very long time [over 8 years]; someone once said to me;”So, whose teaching have you been ‘sitting-UNDER.’..”?
This is a thought I feel related to this whole ‘Covering’ theme here;- that ‘sitting-under’ concept somehow ‘legitimises’ certain strains of thought; -this ‘certain brands’ phrase of Davids-really identifies something here:
Do you guys find it irritating that people feel it so desperately necessary to ‘hang-their-hat’ on certain Teacher’s thoughts & insights; maybe Joyce, John, Paul, Jentezen or Ian,.. ..or in the ancient times; ‘Paul or Apollos’,..or ‘Gemaliel’?
This tendency to cower, or align behind authority-figures really seems to relate back to our own need for security & identity as we search for Christs revelation for each of ourselves; -It seems rather greater that we encourage far more ‘circumspect’ use of teachers and leaders,
[I mean this in the archaic sense; ‘to look-around’], as we work with Christ to develop ourselves forwards….and I always strongly-suspect any ‘teacher’ who refuses to ‘dialogue’!
I hope this makes sense and that it may spark something out there as we think together.
Z.
[‘horse-sense’-ha,….,..thinks fondly of stupid horse-story in ‘Breaking Ice’….]
Zep:
”So, whose teaching have you been ’sitting-UNDER.’..”
Well I do believe that doctrine frees us to be truly free indeed. So I am quite the Nazi for truth and Luther for grace. I hate seeing half truths being embedded into believers. That’s why I’m so adamant on certain doctrines.
I think it’s wise to sit under certain ministries that people think are credible. It’s all to help further our relationships with God. But no teacher should encourage the body of Christ to only seek teachings from just themselves as many seem to do. True ‘teachers’ should encourage the body of Christ to hear from the Holy Spirit at all costs and remind everyone that they too are human and may fall into doctrinal error.
1John 2:20-21… You have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
‘Teachers’ shouldn’t be afraid to be wrong. We are not to call anybody ‘teacher’. But we can acknowledge that God is using certain individuals in the Body of Christ to help present truths that are needed in the church today. All Christian’s need to be sensitive to the Spirit and ask God daily about the things they pick up from other believers. ‘Is this right God’? It’s amazing sometimes when foul doctrine is preached how the Spirit in us spits it back out or kicks it away.
I do need to make something clear though,
This Sunday, a ‘true’ and excellent servant-pastor working in New Guinea publically praised a local New Guinean; a basically uneducated man who however had a huge heart for people, and ‘Apostolic Gift’ which saw him getting calls from many districts where he brings a ‘opening’ and influence for Christ.
I fully accept this kind of ‘Ambassador-ship’ as a totally scriptural and valid way to lead and shepherd people in Christ, though feel quite uncomfortable with ‘Apostolic covering’ or ‘oversight’ in the hierarchial sense, and we need to be really careful with it.
Yours truly,
Z.
I have been trying to track this this “Covering Theology” – and trying to find its origins. I think I am getting closer. I have always called it “personal kingdom building.”
I have seen great abuses by this teaching. It seems to effect all ministries, and all positions – from heads of organizations to church janitors.
At its core, it appears to be a rejection of the Protestant Reformation, and a desire to be encumbered once again by submission to a Rome-like body.
I’m still feeling my way through this …
Steve
Hey Steve! Welcome to SignPosts.
You’ve got me curious now.
How far back has it gone? Is it something recent in the last 30 years?
Early Hagen years? Early church CEO years? Or even Ancient AOG years?
I personally think it was a doctrine with good intentions. A bit like the ‘love offering’ idea. So it wouldn’t surprise me if it originally came from an AOG type of eldership or Presbytery-like group.
Was the original teaching of the ‘Covering Doctrine’ really once pure, now gone wrong? Or was it always wrong to begin with?
Hey Specks!
How far back does this go back? I would venture Genesis 4?
It is pride, arrogance, and personal kingdom building – all rolled into one. The only thing that changes is the flavor. You guys are spot on with this latest incarnation with John Bevere, and you deserve a huge shout out for this blog and all the contributions made. My church was destroyed by this Bevere nonsense. I was lacking because I could not identify it until now. Even finding the right grouping of words to indentify it was hard to do. Was it spiritual authority or servant leadership or spiritual abuse? Finally, I tried “Covering Theology” – and this blog showed up. Thank you whoever created it!
As with anything, a kernel of truth can be taken and reshaped and twisted so that it does not even resemble the original truth it is supposed to convey. Instead of the man being the head the woman, and Christ being the head of the man – the pastor has been injected between the man and Christ. How is that different then my going to a Catholic priest to confess my sins and have him absolve me of my sins? Access to Christ is denied, and we now have our only access to Christ through a man, in this case, our pastor.
I come at this from a place most would not think this to occur. I do pro-life ministry. One would think we would have the unborn babies in mind. Well .. not so much. Whenever man is involved, personal kingdom building, pride, and arrogance trumps the stated goal. Brothers, I have seen this time and time again – and it drives me up the wall. Everything we do is supposed to be for Him, but not all those who claim Christ have that goal.
I watched an old man struggle to get a couch up a flight of stairs by himself. He was the church janitor. Seeing this old guy struggle, I went and grabbed the other end of the couch to give him a hand. He immediately dropped his end of the couch, got in my face, and ordered me to let go of the other end. He was going to fight me if I did not. I said, “fine” and he continued to drag that couch up those steps. What I did was invade his personal kingdom. He would rather die dragging that couch up those stairs, then to share his kingdom with another.
Where we miss it is – it’s about His Kingdom – not ours. This Covering Theology is about personal kingdom building. This is something I despise because I know me. I want no man to follow me, because I know me. They look to Jesus, and him alone. That is my heart brothers.
Ya know Speck – the first two articles dealing with Flip Benham (accesible through my name) are exactly what I have been talking about here. I just didn’t know what to call it until now!
God bless you broither!
This is an article from Don Francisco’s RockyMountainMinistries Music Site:
http://www.rockymountainministries.org/Articles/MythBusterArticles/Myth25%20We%20Need%20A%20Covering.html
Myth #25 – We Need a “Covering”
This is a widely accepted and damaging myth. There is no Biblical use of this word to indicate that people need human mediators. In fact, the Bible says there are no mediators between individual people and God except Jesus Himself.
In the New Testament, the word covering only applies to jars and headcloths worn by secular cultures of that day. There is only one exception to this – love covers a multitude of sin. This is the only spiritual use of the word “covering” in the New Testament and it has nothing to do with bowing to a human.
Let’s lay something out here – when a modern Christian says you need a “covering”, they mean a mediator.
For any believer to place a covering or mediator inbetween them and God is to abdicate their direct relationship with God, and this is against every new covenant principle. This is true of church relationships, family relationships, marriages, and friendships. Order and harmony in the Body is a side result of every believer having the fruit of God’s Spirit within. God blesses our relationships when we ALL have His heart of love, submission, and service.
We can learn from each other and we can organize in a practical sense for different tasks, but this is different than allowing a person to direct our lives and make our choices. The idea of humans covering other humans is nothing but cultish.
If someone says you need a covering, you probably need to pack your bags and get out of Dodge, head for the hills, skeedaddle, drop off the key Lee, and get yourself free. Whoever says that a person needs a covering probably needs a covering for their own mouth… preferably duct tape.
LOL, S&P.
Steve, thanks for your encouraging words. I’ve been amazed by the response to this post, because not a single person has supported Covering doctrine. Yet it is so prevalent.
It’s sad to hear that it affects even ministries such as pro-life – still, I guess it is part of our fallen nature to tend towards empire building and therefore theologies that justify it. But your testimony to me confirms again that God speaks to us even in the midst of it (despite the ‘mediators’!). God bless!
The book “Who is Your Covering?” by Frank Viola is no longer in print. His new book, “Reimagining Church” has replaced it. “Reimagining Church” is the sequel to “Pagan Christianity” which was authored by George Barna and Frank. “Reimagining Church” is a detailed theology of organic church, over 300 pages. Endorsements by Leonard Sweet, Shane Claiborne, Alan Hirsch, Tony Dale, Felicity Dale, Jon Zens, John White, Rad Zdero, and others. You can read a sample chapter at http://www.ReimaginingChurch.org
The book is also available on Amazon.com
There have been great comments left on this thread by everyone.
“It’s been said before, but the Church has had approx 2000 years. It is now more divided, squabbling & confused than it has ever been. Not long now before it disappears altogether.”
Amen!
Under the AOG, I also call the ‘covering’ layout in ministry the ‘Umbrella System’.
Go figure.
“It’s been said before, but the Church has had approx 2000 years. It is now more divided, squabbling & confused than it has ever been. Not long now before it disappears altogether.”
This of course is a falsehood. As is the argument that the church is failing or diminishing. The reality is that there are more Christian on earth today then in all of history.
The power of the enforced ‘unity’ of the Roman Catholic dominant era in Europe has been replaced with a gradual breakout into truth. It has been a long and arduous journey, but we’re actually travelling towards what Jesus called the glorious Church.
From where we stand it looks as if the fulness of this is still a way off. However, from where God sits the true Church has always been the glorious Church, washed in the blood of Jesus. It as been persecuted, pushed from pillar to post, suppressed, martyred, and, by force mostly, silenced, but never completely. It has been shrouded for centuries by the apostasy of those dark and middle ages, but is beginning to re-emerge. So that what we see is, in some ways, fractured, but in fact is drawing closer and closer as the day of Christ’s return comes.
It will disappear, but not in he way this statement claims. It will disappear when we are caught up to be with Christ forever. Until then, the Church will continue to gain momentum. There will be a falling away for some, but the power of the gospel to save, even against he odds, will never diminish.
There will be greater persecutions in the future, but it is in the midst of great persecution that the Church is seen to be the true glorious Church it is.
Even so. Lord Jesus, come!
As I said above, “If the institutional church does disappear, which I doubt it will, there will still be other Christians out there, gathering in ways which don’t hold to these systems. The body of Christ will continue, even if it’s not as visible.”
I don’t think S&P meant to cheer the demise of the universal church. He may have meant to cheer the demise of unscriptural systems, including covering theology however!
It seems to me that many movements start off well, then get bogged down in some unscriptural sidetrack. It’s pretty hard for an organised structure to change once the stakes in changing become expensive.
The truth is though that the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is washed clean by his blood, not ours, although the blood of martyrs cries out. It’s made clean by his Word. It’s overseen and led by his Spirit. Our personal, human righteousness is as filthy rags. His righteousness is whole, holy and complete, and it’s his righteousness which is perfecting the Church.
We are made clean through faith in him, and his righteousness is accredited to us, which makes us holy, and blameless and unreproveable in his sight. The victory which overcomes the world is faith – the faith which accepts Jesus as Lord and Saviour, at which point we are sealed with the Spirit of Promise. That’s the Church God is looking for, preparing, readying to be presented to Christ.
Therefore the genuine Church isn’t anything to do with denominations, names of groups or even personalities. It isn’t Paul, or Cephas or Apollo. The truth Church is made up of believers, people who are born again, who have received Jesus. The true Church is in some ways hidden, as yet a mystery. Yet it is alive and active in every nation.
And the real Church is beautiful, glorious and true. And unified, as it can only be when we walk in the Spirit. There is One Spirit, One Lord and Christ, One faith, one baptism, one Body, one Church, One God who is in all and through all.
Schisms and divisions reveal the carnality of human thinking, and are nothing to do with the true Church. Wood, hay and stubble.
Agreed, FL, which is why even when you and I and others disagree here on this blog, we are still brothers and sisters!